Jiren -such a huge disappointment

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PsionicWarrior
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Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by PsionicWarrior » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:47 pm

Dude was teased for so long, then we discover him as a somehow hero, then out of the blue he just starts acting like an asshole, we get a 20 secs uninspired backstory when he needed so much more...

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by GamerSkull » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:04 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:Dude was teased for so long, then we discover him as a somehow hero, then out of the blue he just starts acting like an asshole, we get a 20 secs uninspired backstory when he needed so much more...
I agree. He is really lacking in any depth, imo.

His strength and taciturn personality are his only attributes too. Boring overall.
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Goresh » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:24 pm

I'm generally someone who tries to find the best in things and I really want DBS to succeed. There have only been a handful of episodes that I can genuinely say that I have not liked, but I have been extremely put-off with the way that the team has handled Jiren as a character. It seems that when they were deciding on the flow of story in this arc, there was not really a well-thought out structure for how the flow of events would play out, which resulted in this sort of episodic narrative ever since the ToP began. This played into Jiren's poor characterization because without a predetermined overarching tone that is consistent throughout the arc, Jiren is seen as someone who consistently contradicts his values as each episode is seen as more of its own story instead of pieces of a puzzle. I can't speak to the brainstorming process the team used for this arc, but I think it would have benefited the series a great deal if all of the writers sat down in a room together and just spent however long they needed to flesh out the tone, characters, and story progression so that the arc would at last have some remnants of flow to it. Hopefully they can squeeze in some kind of additional characterization for Jiren during these final episodes because up until now, he is probably the most uninteresting antagonist in Dragon Ball history.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Logania » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:39 pm

They really just didn't know what to do with him at all. The franchise isn't really deep or complex especially with It's antagonists, but at least they're over the top and do their main characteristics quite well. For Jiren however...nothing really clicks and he's just a mesh of characteristics and personalities that aren't fleshed out to me so he's just a strong alien.

His fighting style and moves doesn't really play off his character either. Moves like death beams to torture people, impaling and other things show off Freezas sadistic, evil personality. Buu is psychotic, crazy, a loose-cannon and he's morphing into balls, turning people into candy, kicking through the ground and hitting people, ripping off parts of his body to restrain people, you don't know what he's gonna do next as an attack and it fits. Even Hit who attacks vital points and quick one hit assassin techniques show off his character nicely. Not every antagonist has this type of thing mind you, but it helps a lot with making an antagonist memorable. Jiren just hits people REALLY hard and is strong, the only move I will remember is him doing the eye shield thing and the move he hit Kale and Hit with. Hopefully when he breaks his limit next episode he'll have some cool abilities and such.
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Asura » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:01 pm

While I'm confident that Ultra Instinct and Goku vs Jiren will be one of the most memorable things of the entire franchise, I'm also confident that Jiren will be one of the least memorable antagonists ever.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Chuquita » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:04 pm

Jiren's disappointing to me too.

If he'd have had at least either a cool design or interesting personality or unique back story I could forgive the other two things, but he's just bland, imo.


But you know, Super gave me Rosé and his crazy ostentatious self so it's not a loss. Even Hit at least has that Jotaro thing going on.

And maybe whenever Dragon Ball returns it'll be with some higher tier antagonists than Jiren. I'm optimistic.
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:53 pm

ANime wise, it feels like they really haven't done much with him until the end, which is a shame since how much they were building him up since the 2nd OP started. The manga though was smart and established who he is and get a sence of character. So while the anime is meh, there is hope for the manga.
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by picc » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:09 pm

Jiren has no defined archetype role, and it hurts him as a character. Not being a villain, nor being a hero, puts him in a sort of grey zone where its difficult for his dialogue and actions to have the intensity and motivation required for charisma.

Then there's his design. Every one of the pride troopers has a more interesting look than his "muscly bald guy" appearance.

And his backstory. Ball dropped to China with that. Could and should have been the majority of an episode (if not an entire one) explaining his origins and how some random dude surpassed the GoD's. Instead we get 3 minutes of cliched crap.

As an aside, he's a huge jerk. He's powered up about 35 times this tournament, each time making it more clear he could have ended the whole thing instantly and had the pride troopers back in their universe saving cats from trees 44 minutes ago. Now they're on the verge of being erased. He might be the biggest and worst sandbagger of all time.
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Avenant » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:32 am

GreatSaiyaJeff wrote:ANime wise, it feels like they really haven't done much with him until the end, which is a shame since how much they were building him up since the 2nd OP started. The manga though was smart and established who he is and get a sence of character. So while the anime is meh, there is hope for the manga.
I never take the Anime serious and just enjoy the ride. The Manga is the quentessential Dragonball to me and what I look forward to most. That said, I'm super excited to see how the tournament plays out in the Manga, no pun intended! I expect Jiren to be much more developed and intriguing.
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Miracles » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:14 am

Jiren told Goku to get lost in his first appearance.
Jiren does a winning pose after sending his prey flying.
Stepped on Goku's back when he was down.
Told team 7 how does it feel to taste their last victory after defeating Anilaza.
Clowned Vegeta for having a false exaggerated view of himself with impure punches.
Rebuked Toppo for throwing away justice for destruction. Commended Vegeta for staying true to who he is.
Jiren's character has been consistent.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Danfun64 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:57 am

Logania wrote:Jiren just hits people REALLY hard
Say that again and I will kick you in the dick. ;P
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:07 am

Miracles wrote:Jiren told Goku to get lost in his first appearance.
Jiren does a winning pose after sending his prey flying.
Stepped on Goku's back when he was down.
Told team 7 how does it feel to taste their last victory after defeating Anilaza.
Clowned Vegeta for having a false exaggerated view of himself with impure punches.
Rebuked Toppo for throwing away justice for destruction. Commended Vegeta for staying true to who he is.
Jiren's character has been consistent.
Yeah, consistently bland
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:06 am

Jiren is the Jotaro Kujo of Dragon Ball. Both are characters that have quite bland personalities but their presence in combat is so immense that it overshadows their two dimensional nature of being the "cool acting guy who does cool shit in fights and say cool things". The main purpose of Jiren was him to be the biggest obstacle in the arc and provide a spectacle in every battle he takes part in to live up to the role, and goddamn, mission accomplished in that department. No Dragon Ball fan will every forget (Ultra Instinct) Goku vs Jiren.

All the while, any kind of character development Jiren was going to get was put on the back-burner until it was needed for narrative purposes. That's not say that Jiren could have handled much better from a character perspective, because he certainly could have developed better and your mileage will always vary with how much you get out Jiren's character.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by TheGreatSaiyaman » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:09 am

Not as bad as Gohan in Super :(

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:01 pm

I like him just fine. His role in the plot is to be "the wall" that Goku spends the entire tournament trying to climb over. He's also a nice foil for Goku in that while Goku wants to keep getting stronger and find more strong people to fight, Jiren wants power for its own sake. It's nothing especially deep, but it's there.

Also, watching him suddenly develop pupils whenever he gets hit really hard is funny.
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:29 pm

Zamasu was a much more complex and elaborate antagonist than Jiren, and he accomplished many more feats too. Jiren has failed, it is clear now that Zamasu is the most iconic Dragon Ball: Super antagonist (bar Frieza, of course, who wasn't created in Super).
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by 8bitdee » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:11 pm

Perfect example of Toei unable to write interesting plot. Toriyama probably just told them "he's strong" and left Toei to develop his character and they had no idea what to do. At least Toyotaro is trying to give him character. It's another reason why I want Toriyama out and someone else to take over the series so there's a solid foundation and consistent structure to the writing.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Exline » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:29 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:I like him just fine. His role in the plot is to be "the wall" that Goku spends the entire tournament trying to climb over. He's also a nice foil for Goku in that while Goku wants to keep getting stronger and find more strong people to fight, Jiren wants power for its own sake. It's nothing especially deep, but it's there.
I don't get it. How exactly is it interesting and a foil that Jiren wants power for its own sake compared to Goku wanting to continuously get stronger?

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Mister_Popo » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:44 pm

I like how he is depcited in episode 130 preview, he looks to have become a complete monster, like he has escaped from the demon realm. A completely different Jiren than we've seen untill now. No longer stoic.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Asura » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:48 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Jiren is the Jotaro Kujo of Dragon Ball. Both are characters that have quite bland personalities but their presence in combat is so immense that it overshadows their two dimensional nature of being the "cool acting guy who does cool shit in fights and say cool things". The main purpose of Jiren was him to be the biggest obstacle in the arc and provide a spectacle in every battle he takes part in to live up to the role, and goddamn, mission accomplished in that department. No Dragon Ball fan will every forget (Ultra Instinct) Goku vs Jiren.

All the while, any kind of character development Jiren was going to get was put on the back-burner until it was needed for narrative purposes. That's not say that Jiren could have handled much better from a character perspective, because he certainly could have developed better and your mileage will always vary with how much you get out Jiren's character.
I definitely wouldn’t say that Jiren is the Jotaro of Dragon Ball. Jotaro’s personality isn’t nearly as bland as Jiren’s, nor is it as inconsistent. I’m a big fan of Jotaro and it has very little to do with his combat prowess and more to do with his cool kid, calm and calculating personality.

Jiren on the other hand is almost entirely emotionless, motivation and backstory still not all that clear, definitely not someone who is always calculating his next move like Jotaro, and he doesn’t really have any of those cool kid traits aside from a catchline and being quiet. Jotaro is quiet but when he spoke he usually had something to say. When Jiren speaks he doesn’t really add anything, it’s mostly just weak insults or him talking about strength.

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