Jiren -such a huge disappointment

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Miracles
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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Miracles » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:59 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:
Miracles wrote:They gave us a solid background for who Jiren is today.
They gave us a 2mns flashback.
Necessary for explaining what made Jiren today. :P

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by PsionicWarrior » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:31 pm

Miracles wrote: Necessary for explaining what made Jiren today. :P
All the more power to you for being satisfied with this, but given the one year hype about his backstory I was expecting and truly think he needed more. To follow on his psychology, see him live and laugh, then lose all. Just telling us the cliché scenario within such short timeframe doesn't work to make an antagonist interesting and memorable enough to me. I thought Zamasu would have raised a bit some standards, looks like I was wrong.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Sonicjamareiz » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:39 pm

What makes Jirens personality worse is the fact it was intentionally bland. :lol:
Purple Cum Monster Vegeta arc :sick:

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by PsionicWarrior » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:51 pm

Sonicjamareiz wrote:What makes Jirens personality worse is the fact it was intentionally bland. :lol:
It wasn't intentionally bland, what was intentional was the mystery around him and the ambiguity of the character. I don't even mind his backstory to be cliché and tbh I was expecting something among the lines, it's the way it was told to us that makes me feel cheated by the show. But majority of TOP has been like this so my own fault for having gotten my hopes up again.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Aman » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:56 pm

Miracles wrote:
PsionicWarrior wrote:
Miracles wrote: People are simply complaining about the type of personality. The way he portrays it.
Well, no. I'm complaining because unlike for instance Freeza Jiren clearly needed a solid background to give him proper development and make him interesting. Same would go for Toppo actually, it was a great that Toppo had this inner struggle between justice and destruction, but sadly it wasn't built in any way making little impact on the narrative when it happened.
Jiren's background was already a business is booming pitch. When he came in stated to be stronger than his god of destruction Belmound.
Jiren being a quiet powerhouse was very interesting. People are mad cause he has a tragic past which is the reason for his strength. They gave us a solid background for who Jiren is today.
Quiet powerhouses can be interesting, Jiren is not one of them.

It might have worked with a cooler design, but it just hasn't clicked with him. He's just there, and not really someone I want to see again going forward.

Goku fans should be pleased that this wasn't the battle where he achieved his ultimate power tbh.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by PsionicWarrior » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:58 pm

MKCSTEALTH wrote: Personally, I've loved Jiren thus far. Yeah he's an asshole but he's been the solitary type
Did you forget he was first presented as a hero? The true hero of Justice of U11? Then yeah you're right, suddenly he starts acting like an asshole, character consistency 100%.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:00 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:
MKCSTEALTH wrote: Personally, I've loved Jiren thus far. Yeah he's an asshole but he's been the solitary type
Did you forget he was first presented as a hero? The true hero of Justice of U11? Then yeah you're right, suddenly he starts acting like an asshole, character consistency 100%.
Wasn't that Toppo? The manga was more in-your-face with Jiren heroism than the anime ever was.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Aman » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:02 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:
MKCSTEALTH wrote: Personally, I've loved Jiren thus far. Yeah he's an asshole but he's been the solitary type
Did you forget he was first presented as a hero? The true hero of Justice of U11? Then yeah you're right, suddenly he starts acting like an asshole, character consistency 100%.
I honestly don't know what Jiren is.

He's all over the place and that's not by design, they're not sure what direction to go with him. Although that's expected with the number of writers DBS has and AT's lack of detail in his outline.
Last edited by Aman on Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by PsionicWarrior » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:03 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: Wasn't that Toppo? The manga was more in-your-face with Jiren heroism than the anime ever was.
Toppo was shouting Justice all the time but I'm pretty sure they presented Jiren as such early on, can't recall the exact episode.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:21 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: Wasn't that Toppo? The manga was more in-your-face with Jiren heroism than the anime ever was.
Toppo was shouting Justice all the time but I'm pretty sure they presented Jiren as such early on, can't recall the exact episode.
I don't recall any episode where Jiren was presented as hero. At best you could say he was hero by proxy given his association with the Pride Troopers, but it was Toppo who was leader of the Pride Troopers and the person among that group that Universe 11 looked up to the most.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:02 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:
MKCSTEALTH wrote: Personally, I've loved Jiren thus far. Yeah he's an asshole but he's been the solitary type
Did you forget he was first presented as a hero? The true hero of Justice of U11? Then yeah you're right, suddenly he starts acting like an asshole, character consistency 100%.

In the manga he's painted as a hero.

The anime has painted him more as a loner who is only seeking strength. Hell, when they introduced U11 and everyone posed, he just stood there. I do believe he cares about justice, but as a means to gain strength. If he doesn't seem something worth his time, he doesn't bother with it.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by TheMikado » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:19 pm

The problem is why in the world did they go different directions?

Toppo in the manga is mostly silent even when fighting Goku.
In fact, I think Jiren has done more talking relative to his screen time in the manga than Toppo.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:19 am

Aman wrote:
Miracles wrote:
PsionicWarrior wrote:
Well, no. I'm complaining because unlike for instance Freeza Jiren clearly needed a solid background to give him proper development and make him interesting. Same would go for Toppo actually, it was a great that Toppo had this inner struggle between justice and destruction, but sadly it wasn't built in any way making little impact on the narrative when it happened.
Jiren's background was already a business is booming pitch. When he came in stated to be stronger than his god of destruction Belmound.
Jiren being a quiet powerhouse was very interesting. People are mad cause he has a tragic past which is the reason for his strength. They gave us a solid background for who Jiren is today.
Quiet powerhouses can be interesting, Jiren is not one of them.

It might have worked with a cooler design, but it just hasn't clicked with him. He's just there, and not really someone I want to see again going forward.

Goku fans should be pleased that this wasn't the battle where he achieved his ultimate power tbh.
I’m pretty certain this is the battle where he achieved his ultimate power. Or maybe I’ve just been dreaming about MUI goku all this time.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:20 am

Lord Beerus wrote: I don't recall any episode where Jiren was presented as hero. At best you could say he was hero by proxy given his association with the Pride Troopers, but it was Toppo who was leader of the Pride Troopers and the person among that group that Universe 11 looked up to the most.
Well I'm not going through the whole top again anytime soon to check it so I guess I will have to take your word for it. Toppo does look up to him so maybe I mixed things up along my own interpretation.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Izanagi » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:25 am

His backstory is pretty basic by Dragon Ball standards, but it gets the job done and lays on what exactly he wants to wish for. Jiren stated he wants something that lies beyond strength which means he wants something that with all of his power he could never achieve by normals means. And even then, I don't believe that you need complex backstories since they can equally be convoluted or just plain stupid and sometimes it's best to go basic as it can help lay a very basic but complex set of morals later on.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:00 pm

Manga Jiren is Superman
Anime Jiren is Batman

The difference is probably due Toppo: in the anime he's all JUSTICE when fighting, so the staff went for a quieter Jiren for greater contrast, especially when all the other Pride Trooper had similar flamboyant personalities.
But in the manga Toppo's JUSTICE boner is much more toned down and viceversa Jiren is more amiable.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:04 pm

Izanagi wrote:And even then, I don't believe that you need complex backstories since they can equally be convoluted or just plain stupid and sometimes it's best to go basic as it can help lay a very basic but complex set of morals later on.
It's not about having a complex backstory, it's not even about the backstory itself, it's how the backstory is told. And I don't really see what you mean by 'later on' since we're two eps near the end.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Amir » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:55 pm

He is still better than Goku.

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:17 pm

Amir wrote:He is still better than Goku.
Lol, that was low :mrgreen:

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Re: Jiren -such a huge disappointment

Post by Aman » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:40 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Aman wrote:
Miracles wrote: Jiren's background was already a business is booming pitch. When he came in stated to be stronger than his god of destruction Belmound.
Jiren being a quiet powerhouse was very interesting. People are mad cause he has a tragic past which is the reason for his strength. They gave us a solid background for who Jiren is today.
Quiet powerhouses can be interesting, Jiren is not one of them.

It might have worked with a cooler design, but it just hasn't clicked with him. He's just there, and not really someone I want to see again going forward.

Goku fans should be pleased that this wasn't the battle where he achieved his ultimate power tbh.
I’m pretty certain this is the battle where he achieved his ultimate power. Or maybe I’ve just been dreaming about MUI goku all this time.
I mean't as in perfecting it, this is his ultimate form, but it's the not the peak of it.

I can't see Goku going any higher than this as it is the ultimate form, but I can still see him perfecting it and hitting a new peak power with it. That will probably come with him being able to use at will and fully understanding the power.

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