The Goku-Vegeta rivalry is the most overrated rivalry in fiction and should be concluded in Super

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Re: The Goku-Vegeta rivalry is the most overrated rivalry in fiction and should be concluded in Super

Post by Whatever » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:41 am

sintzu wrote:
Whatever wrote:,Toyotaro is treating Vegeta better due to his favoritism of him.
He said his favorite was Goku so him treating Vegeta better than the anime does has to do with good writing and balancing his role with Goku's.

Despite all he's given Vegeta, he still made sure to give just as much if not more to Goku, the difference between how he and Toei write Goku is that he doesn't force him down our throats. In some cases like here, less is more.
He also said he likes to give side characters some spotlight and make them usefull so we know how that went last chapter.
Toei forces Goku down our throats but he does the same with Vegeta.

He even made that 1/10 power rule in the Champa arc(which btw its never brought up again)as an attemt to make Vegeta not look pathetic when he lost against Hit since its clear that Toriyama's outline at this point wanted Goku to be 10 time stronger than Vegeta.
Lets not forget the focus he got during the FT arc out of the 3 despite having the least connection to the plot and villain,including Vegeta 1 shotting 2 Merged Zamasus while battle damaged while the stronger MSSB Goku could barely handle one.

First time we see Gohan after BOG(and that one side story with FT)we do not see him interacting with Piccolo or Goku but with Vegeta.
After 17 bonds with Goku,guess who interacts with?Maybe his sister?His brother in law?Maybe Piccolo who was the Z fighter he interacted the most during Z?
Nope it just had to be Vegeta again.

I am sure i am not the first one you heard this before.
Michsi wrote:
To be honest, I'd avoid being honest when answering this question, too. Specifically to divert the 'fanboy' criticism. Makes Vegeta's importance feel genuine instead of character favoritism. Goku is the safest answer, because he is supposed to be the star of the show.

How was he treating these characters in his fancomic?
Vegeta was pretty much the MC in AF.

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Re: The Goku-Vegeta rivalry is the most overrated rivalry in fiction and should be concluded in Super

Post by sintzu » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:05 am

Whatever wrote:He made that 1/10 power rule in the Champa arc as an attemt to make Vegeta not look pathetic when he lost against Hit.

Lets not forget the focus he got during the FT arc out of the 3 despite having the least connection to the plot and villain.

First time we see Gohan after BOG we see him interacting with Vegeta. After 17 bonds with Goku,guess who interacts with him ? Vegeta again.

I am sure i am not the first one you heard this before.

Vegeta was pretty much the MC in AF.
So It's OK for the anime to make him look bad while it's wrong for the manga to make him look good ? what's wrong with getting the point of Goku being stronger across without dragging Vegeta through the mud in the process ?

Again, what's wrong with getting a major focus alongside the other 2 ? So it makes more sense for Trunks to get more to do despite being A LOT weaker than him ? In terms of his connections to Black, he tried to kill his son after destroying his timeline and killing his wife. How much more of a connection do you need ? I don't see you complaining about Goku fighting and beating Freeza on Namek despite their weak conection.

So now we've gone beyond just complaining about Vegeta getting things to do to him getting lines of dialogue ? :lol: That's a first.

You are actually. I've never heared someone complain about Vegeta getting lines of dialogue. :crazy:

I just took a quick look at it and Gohan seems a lot more important than he does.
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Re: The Goku-Vegeta rivalry is the most overrated rivalry in fiction and should be concluded in Super

Post by Whatever » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:29 am

sintzu wrote:
So It's OK for the anime to make him look bad while it's wrong for the manga to make him look good ? what's wrong with getting the point of Goku being stronger across without dragging Vegeta through the mud in the process ?
Toyotaro makes Vegeta look good at the expense of the antagonists,with weak/lackluster antagonists the story./narrative suffers.
Also losing to the strongest character in U6 is not something bad,Toyotaro pumpering Vegeta made Hit look pathetic and made the tournament a waste of time since
we are being told even the strongest person on U6 could not even match Vegeta,let alone Goku.
Again, what's wrong with getting a major focus alongside the other 2 ? So it makes more sense for Trunks to get more to do despite being A LOT weaker than him ? In terms of his connections to Black, he tried to kill his son after destroying his timeline and killing his wife. How much more of a connection do you need ?
Getting major focus is fine but the other 2 characters who have more connections to the story and villains than him.
Story wise it makes more sense for Trunks to do more,not like they could not find a logical way to power him up,then again with the Gamma Burst Flash feat it shows that he only throws powerscalling out of the window for Vegeta only.
Also its worth noting that in the manga Vegeta screwed around by not going all out against Black the 1st time and not using Gamma Burst Flash before Zamasu and Black fused,on top of refusing to fuse with Goku.so clearly in the manga he did not care enough. :lolno:
In the anime Vegeta always went all out each battle from the get go and accepted right away to fuse.
So now we've gone beyond just complaining about Vegeta getting things to do to him getting lines of dialogue ? :lol: That's a first.

You are actually. I've never heared someone complain about Vegeta getting lines of dialogue. :crazy:

I just took a quick look at it and Gohan seems a lot more important than he does.
Its just another example of him putting Vegeta where he should not,17 and Gohan interacting with Vegeta instead with those close to him should be the last thing on Toyotaro's mind if bias is not included.
I mean that you must have heard before that Vegeta is favored in the manga.
don't see you complaining about Goku fighting and beating Freeza on Namek despite their weak conection.
I do have a problem with that,both Goku and Piccolo were shoehorned in the finale of the Freeza arc.
Goku and Piccolo contributed more in the finale despite Vegeta having a stronger connection with Freeza but then again Vegeta did not deserve the kill at all since he was a scumbag at this point that got what was coming to him.
So Goku or Piccolo getting the W was the only 2 options considering how poor of a job Toriyama has done at this point with establishing connections between the main cast and the main villain.

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Re: The Goku-Vegeta rivalry is the most overrated rivalry in fiction and should be concluded in Super

Post by Michsi » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:05 pm

Whatever wrote:
Michsi wrote:
To be honest, I'd avoid being honest when answering this question, too. Specifically to divert the 'fanboy' criticism. Makes Vegeta's importance feel genuine instead of character favoritism. Goku is the safest answer, because he is supposed to be the star of the show.

How was he treating these characters in his fancomic?
Vegeta was pretty much the MC in AF.
Well, there you go.

A few years ago someone said that the author of that DB SD was former doujinshi artist that had a fondness for Goku/Vegeta and that it showed somewhat in the official work too. Don't know if that's true cuz I don't follow SD, but yeah, I suppose this is the downside to employing fans. They bring their fan-wishlists with them (would do it too) :)
Whatever wrote:
don't see you complaining about Goku fighting and beating Freeza on Namek despite their weak conection.
I do have a problem with that,both Goku and Piccolo were shoehorned in the finale of the Freeza arc.
Goku and Piccolo contributed more in the finale despite Vegeta having a stronger connection with Freeza but then again Vegeta did not deserve the kill at all since he was a scumbag at this point that got what was coming to him.
So Goku or Piccolo getting the W was the only 2 options considering how poor of a job Toriyama has done at this point with establishing connections between the main cast and the main villain.
Bardock was Goku's connection to Freeza, I guess. And Piccolo made more sense because they were on Namek . Not to mention his fusion with Nail made it all more personal.
Vegeta dying before seeing Freeza get defeated was supposed to be poetic justice or something like that since he was a complete villain at that point and no better than Freeza. Getting beaten to the point of tears was his punishment, I suppose

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Re: The Goku-Vegeta rivalry is the most overrated rivalry in fiction and should be concluded in Super

Post by Chuquita » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:21 pm

Michsi wrote:
Whatever wrote:
Michsi wrote:
To be honest, I'd avoid being honest when answering this question, too. Specifically to divert the 'fanboy' criticism. Makes Vegeta's importance feel genuine instead of character favoritism. Goku is the safest answer, because he is supposed to be the star of the show.

How was he treating these characters in his fancomic?
Vegeta was pretty much the MC in AF.
Well, there you go.

A few years ago someone said that the author of that DB SD was former doujinshi artist that had a fondness for Goku/Vegeta and that it showed somewhat in the official work too. Don't know if that's true cuz I don't follow SD, but yeah, I suppose this is the downside to employing fans. They bring their fan-wishlists with them (would do it too) :)
I don't follow SD either, but yes I can confirm Naho Ooishi was part of a doujinshi circle that did Goku/Vegeta stuff. I think she drew the covers (they were made to look like the Kanzenban covers, only I think it was called Dragon Ball 69) and short comics, but as far as I recall from research if she did any NSFW content I've never seen it. I'd actually never heard of her previous work until after she became Naho Ooishi because by then I'd mostly stopped searching for doujinshi and focused more on real time DB fan comics people would draw and post on social media.

I don't think there is any KakaVege in SD; I feel like if there was there's at least a couple people who would've posted about that by now.

Toyotaro's work...you know I tried to follow his comics back when he was Toyble and I could not get into it; just didn't interest me and I fell off pretty early. (And yet I really enjoyed the Goku Black arc outside of the messy ending--the one arc that feels like it took a lot from Toyble's doujinshi. Maybe it was how much more hammy and over the top Rosé was compared to what little I read of Xicor who just seemed kinda Typical Z Movie Villain to me).
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Re: The Goku-Vegeta rivalry is the most overrated rivalry in fiction and should be concluded in Super

Post by Michsi » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:28 am

Chuquita wrote:
Michsi wrote:
Whatever wrote:
Vegeta was pretty much the MC in AF.
Well, there you go.

A few years ago someone said that the author of that DB SD was former doujinshi artist that had a fondness for Goku/Vegeta and that it showed somewhat in the official work too. Don't know if that's true cuz I don't follow SD, but yeah, I suppose this is the downside to employing fans. They bring their fan-wishlists with them (would do it too) :)
I don't follow SD either, but yes I can confirm Naho Ooishi was part of a doujinshi circle that did Goku/Vegeta stuff. I think she drew the covers (they were made to look like the Kanzenban covers, only I think it was called Dragon Ball 69) and short comics, but as far as I recall from research if she did any NSFW content I've never seen it. I'd actually never heard of her previous work until after she became Naho Ooishi because by then I'd mostly stopped searching for doujinshi and focused more on real time DB fan comics people would draw and post on social media.

I don't think there is any KakaVege in SD; I feel like if there was there's at least a couple people who would've posted about that by now.

Toyotaro's work...you know I tried to follow his comics back when he was Toyble and I could not get into it; just didn't interest me and I fell off pretty early. (And yet I really enjoyed the Goku Black arc outside of the messy ending--the one arc that feels like it took a lot from Toyble's doujinshi. Maybe it was how much more hammy and over the top Rosé was compared to what little I read of Xicor who just seemed kinda Typical Z Movie Villain to me).
I wasn't necessarily referring to her sneaking in shippy content, but from what I remember, she focuses a lot on Goku and Vegeta too, and they're super buddies and stuff. Back when the first chapters were making the rounds someone posted a scan of Vegeta looking more enthusiastic than Krillin at Goku's arrival Don't know if that was a joke, but Vegeta's face at least face hilarious.

As for Toyble stuff. I just saw a scan on twitter from what was apparently his fancomic. AF? Woah boy...

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Re: The Goku-Vegeta rivalry is the most overrated rivalry in fiction and should be concluded in Super

Post by KidGoku>3 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:47 am

I'm glad they finally changed it. I love this Vegeta. Supporting Goku instead of his usual antics of being angry, jealous etc. Feels more like a real friend, big brother type of character. Always wanted the writers to write him like this and glad they did. I want to see more of this Vegeta.

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Re: The Goku-Vegeta rivalry is the most overrated rivalry in fiction and should be concluded in Super

Post by Analytical Delusion » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:14 am

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Re: The Goku-Vegeta rivalry is the most overrated rivalry in fiction and should be concluded in Super

Post by Kaiosama » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:42 am

So Goku and Vegeta's 3rd battle will happen off screen and they can't do Evolution and UI anymore? Lame...

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Re: The Goku-Vegeta rivalry is the most overrated rivalry in fiction and should be concluded in Super

Post by SsjCookie » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:25 am

Of course they are no longer enemies and Vegeta has grown a lot as a person throughout the series.
But they will always be rivals, Vegeta's purpose in life is to be the best one day so he'll probably never stop trying to outperform Goku.
That's just how he is.

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Re: The Goku-Vegeta rivalry is the most overrated rivalry in fiction and should be concluded in Super

Post by JazzMazz » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:37 am

Kaiosama wrote:So Goku and Vegeta's 3rd battle will happen off screen and they can't do Evolution and UI anymore? Lame...
Uh what?

What makes you think that Vegeta can't do Evolution, or that Goku can't achieve UI again?

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Re: The Goku-Vegeta rivalry is the most overrated rivalry in fiction and should be concluded in Super

Post by Retan » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:36 am

I feel like Vegeta can go evo anytime while goku has no ability to go ui when he want's.

and evo is stronger then X20KK so... why should the rivalry end, and did someone say Frieza was goku's rival in Z? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:


Also Goku's was way less Beerus's rival then Vegeta was Goku and they only fought once really, and Hit doesn't even live in the same universe.


Change is not always good my friends, but if not Vegeta then no one should probably bee goku's rival. ( He's just to stupid)

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Re: The Goku-Vegeta rivalry is the most overrated rivalry in fiction and should be concluded in Super

Post by goku the krump dancer » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:37 am

Old Kai stated that Vegetto is more "complete" because Goku and Vegeta live to out do each other. There is a rivalry its just that Goku is way more nonchalant about his appproach to it. Both of them get pumped at the sight of someone widely considered as powerful but they have two totally different ways of expressing it. Goku can barely sit still in the presence of a "Strong guy" and just wants a good fight, while Vegeta just clinches his fist and gives a snide remark on how so and so is strong but he's gonna kick his ass to test his progress.

As far as the "What Ever" comment to Vegeta by Goku. Thats just two guys shit talking each other. Goku never has stated directly that Vegeta isnt his rival though he has said that Vegeta is a bit more emotionally bothered by Goku than vice versa.
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Re: The Goku-Vegeta rivalry is the most overrated rivalry in fiction and should be concluded in Super

Post by Puaru » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:42 pm

While it's true that it probably can't actually be called a rivalry, I did very much enjoy the relationship between them back in DBZ when it was all about Vegeta's massive inferiority complex towards Goku. That was very interesting.

However, ever since Vegeta managed to more or less chill out about the whole thing, the relationship between the two characters have been pretty unremarkable. Vegeta just acts sorta grumpy towards Goku, and Goku treats Vegeta like a regular buddy.

So yeah, their so called rivalry WAS something very interesting and engaging back in the day but nowadays it really isn't.

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