I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by buutenks » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:57 am

Gohan123 wrote:GT Goku really better than Goku because he was more serious and funny than Super Goku. Super Goku more retard and downgrade than GT Goku . GT Goku record against his enemy more better than Super Goku .

GT Goku >>> Super Goku :wink:

If you mean episode 1 GT Goku and ssj4Goku, sure. kid Goku was absurd tho.

Tho I think only in the FT arc Goku behaved a bit retarded.

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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:33 pm

GT's Goku is a man trapped in a kid's body. Super's Goku is a kid trapped in a man's body.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super

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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by Spider-Man » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:46 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:GT's Goku is a man trapped in a kid's body. Super's Goku is a kid trapped in a man's body.
Ok now this made me chuckle and its true.

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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by AvatarReiko » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:14 pm

GT Goku is way better IMO. Whole GT Goku is essentially the same, Super likes throw Goku's stupidity in your face. GT Goku was a lot more serious, especially as SSJ4. Super Goku is just dense as f. He's worse than bloody Luffy

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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:27 pm

I rewatched episode 53 in the English dub and Goku's behaviour makes me cringe so much. Does that Saiyan even have a brain?! 'OH, I'll just touch and humiliate a Supreme Kai apprentice, that will work!'. There is a differnece between an easy-going personality and an idiotic personality, stupidity should not be a right. Zamasu might have been insane, but Goku was an absurdly foolish dimwit who failed to show even the slightest bit of respect in front of GODS who judge all existence.

At least GT Goku had some dignity, elegance and politeness, despite his inevitable barbarism and naivety derived from his primitive species of beasts.
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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by GamerSkull » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:01 pm

I, too, prefer GT Goku over Super Goku.

While being naive and a bit dimwitted about things is cute for a child between the ages of 12-15 (which is why it worked in early DB), it's so annoying to see the level of it displayed by the adult Goku in DBS. I felt GT Goku was a better representation of him after Z. He's still easygoing, but he seems to be his age (despite being in a child's body).
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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:28 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:GT's Goku is a man trapped in a kid's body. Super's Goku is a kid trapped in a man's body.
Goku always been naive and child like, it's one of the things that makes him endearing.

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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by GamerSkull » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:53 pm

UpFromTheSkies wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:GT's Goku is a man trapped in a kid's body. Super's Goku is a kid trapped in a man's body.
Goku always been naive and child like, it's one of the things that makes him endearing.
I found it endearing when he was a child, but it really bothers me how far Super goes with it since Goku is an adult.

Even in Z, he's still pretty silly but it never felt this absurd. And Goku is my second favorite character so some of Super's depiction of him, even the little things, annoys me.
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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by ulisa » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:02 pm

GamerSkull wrote:I, too, prefer GT Goku over Super Goku.

While being naive and a bit dimwitted about things is cute for a child between the ages of 12-15 (which is why it worked in early DB), it's so annoying to see the level of it displayed by the adult Goku in DBS. I felt GT Goku was a better representation of him after Z. He's still easygoing, but he seems to be his age (despite being in a child's body).
I have to agree with this. I think a great many of Goku’s antics in Super would have been acceptable when he was a child but it seems out of place on an adult. While he has been naive and childlike his whole life, he’s also shown an ability to grow from and learn from his past experiences. That’s kind of lost with Super Goku; I look at Super Goku and I have a really hard time believing it’s the same character who fought Freeza, Cell and Buu. They’re obviously trying to recapture the charm of Kid Goku but it just doesn’t work.

GT Goku while being stuck in a child body seems to have the tone and body language of someone that has been through a lot of battles and knows his way around a fight. He still has his silly moments where he takes advantage of his younger form but he knows when to get serious both in and off the battlefield. I see signs of all the past battles and teachers in this Goku and it feels like a much more genuine evolution of who he was at the end of the series.
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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:08 pm

UpFromTheSkies wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:GT's Goku is a man trapped in a kid's body. Super's Goku is a kid trapped in a man's body.
Goku always been naive and child like, it's one of the things that makes him endearing.
He held a serious disposition far more frequently in DBZ and GT than in Super. Toei's involvement back then resulted in an even more serious character in filler and movies (albeit, with those endearing qualities that kept him being the Goku we love intact). Super's Goku is a caricature of what he used to be, similar to the modern depiction of Spongebob characters, where the writers exaggerate the most recognized traits of the characters. Ultra Instinct is a huge breath of fresh air that takes me back to his first SSJ transformation, and also SSJ4.

Somebody once posted a really cool manga strip, comparing the original work where Goku meets Frieza on Namek for the first time with a fan edited version that shows how Super's Goku would greet him instead. It was spot on. I wish someone would post it here.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super

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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:20 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote: Somebody once posted a really cool manga strip, comparing the original work where Goku meets Frieza on Namek for the first time with a fan edited version that shows how Super's Goku would greet him instead. It was spot on. I wish someone would post it here.
OH i know what you're talking about. If I find it I'll definitely share.

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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by JazzMazz » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:22 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:
UpFromTheSkies wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:GT's Goku is a man trapped in a kid's body. Super's Goku is a kid trapped in a man's body.
Goku always been naive and child like, it's one of the things that makes him endearing.
He held a serious disposition far more frequently in DBZ and GT than in Super. Toei's involvement back then resulted in an even more serious character in filler and movies (albeit, with those endearing qualities that kept him being the Goku we love intact). Super's Goku is a caricature of what he used to be, similar to the modern depiction of Spongebob characters, where the writers exaggerate the most recognized traits of the characters. Ultra Instinct is a huge breath of fresh air that takes me back to his first SSJ transformation, and also SSJ4.

Somebody once posted a really cool manga strip, comparing the original work where Goku meets Frieza on Namek for the first time with a fan edited version that shows how Super's Goku would greet him instead. It was spot on. I wish someone would post it here.
While I do think he was definitely a pretty hallow caricature during some parts of the FT arc, he really hasn't displayed that level of stupidity since then.

Since then, Goku has been pretty spot on with his characterization. His adequately serious when he needs to be, and is only ever really silly when in comedic situations, or situations that relay a Goku response. I think a great example would be in 118, when instead of making a sweeping introduction for himself like 17 and 18, in the most Goku way possible, he cutely says "I'm Goku."

Though I would say that Goku has had some flanderization at during the FT arc, everything after that I think does a pretty good job at reflecting a more grown up, while still childish Goku.

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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by HeroR » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:47 pm

JazzMazz wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:
UpFromTheSkies wrote: Goku always been naive and child like, it's one of the things that makes him endearing.
He held a serious disposition far more frequently in DBZ and GT than in Super. Toei's involvement back then resulted in an even more serious character in filler and movies (albeit, with those endearing qualities that kept him being the Goku we love intact). Super's Goku is a caricature of what he used to be, similar to the modern depiction of Spongebob characters, where the writers exaggerate the most recognized traits of the characters. Ultra Instinct is a huge breath of fresh air that takes me back to his first SSJ transformation, and also SSJ4.

Somebody once posted a really cool manga strip, comparing the original work where Goku meets Frieza on Namek for the first time with a fan edited version that shows how Super's Goku would greet him instead. It was spot on. I wish someone would post it here.
While I do think he was definitely a pretty hallow caricature during some parts of the FT arc, he really hasn't displayed that level of stupidity since then.

Since then, Goku has been pretty spot on with his characterization. His adequately serious when he needs to be, and is only ever really silly when in comedic situations, or situations that relay a Goku response. I think a great example would be in 118, when instead of making a sweeping introduction for himself like 17 and 18, in the most Goku way possible, he cutely says "I'm Goku."

Though I would say that Goku has had some flanderization at during the FT arc, everything after that I think does a pretty good job at reflecting a more grown up, while still childish Goku.
Even in the Future Trunks Saga, I found him only 'flanderize' in 53 and the beginning of 58. Everything else had maybe one or two situations of Goku acting goofier than usual that fans jumped on like he acts like that all the time. Again, 76. Goku was wise, smart, and knew what was going on, yet fans only remembered Goku saying 'I don't understand what you're saying'.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by Jigurashi » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:25 am

The fan base definitely exaggerates how flanderized Goku’s been in Super. He was at his worst early on in the FT saga but for the most part before then and afterwards, he really has been written fine as a character.

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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:38 am

He was at his worst in the FT saga because the flanderization from previous arcs carried to the only serious arc in the series, accentuating how badly this combination meshes.

It's also kind of irritating that this incarnation of Goku is now what we get in other mediums too, like Fighterz Story Mode.
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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by Kaiosama » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:26 am

DragonBallFoodie wrote:
Saturnine wrote: Super never portrayed Goku as evil, it only portrayed him as imperfect, according to the writer's intentions all along. It showed that Goku's selfish actions can lead to unforeseen consequences. Which is very much in line with stuff such as Goku giving Cell a Senzu back in the Cell Games which ended up costing him his life etc.
Goku is no stranger to bad decisions: letting go of Raditz's tail, giving Cell a senzu bean, waiting for the Androids to be made, etc.

But DBS decided to showcase just how destructive these decisions could get, ie him enabling the creation of Goku Black (the deaths of timelines) and enabling Zen-O to create a tournament where he could erase all the losers. I don't think if that was necessary, nor do I believe that should have happened. Why did the writers think it was necessary to show Goku as a screw-up on a level greater than DB had previously shown?
How would Goku know that fighting in a tournament that's being broadcast on GodTube cause a random Apprentice Kaioshin in another universe to kill him and steal his body? In regards to the ToP, Zeno was going to erase all the lowest ranking universe anyways. Goku actually gave them a fighting chance. The only stupid things he did was challenge Beerus and act like a moron in the ToP. The selfish characters in this series have mostly been the grey alien, the dude with the widow's peak, and the two purple cats.

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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by HeroR » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:08 am

Kaiosama wrote:
DragonBallFoodie wrote:
Saturnine wrote: Super never portrayed Goku as evil, it only portrayed him as imperfect, according to the writer's intentions all along. It showed that Goku's selfish actions can lead to unforeseen consequences. Which is very much in line with stuff such as Goku giving Cell a Senzu back in the Cell Games which ended up costing him his life etc.
Goku is no stranger to bad decisions: letting go of Raditz's tail, giving Cell a senzu bean, waiting for the Androids to be made, etc.

But DBS decided to showcase just how destructive these decisions could get, ie him enabling the creation of Goku Black (the deaths of timelines) and enabling Zen-O to create a tournament where he could erase all the losers. I don't think if that was necessary, nor do I believe that should have happened. Why did the writers think it was necessary to show Goku as a screw-up on a level greater than DB had previously shown?
How would Goku know that fighting in a tournament that's being broadcast on GodTube cause a random Apprentice Kaioshin in another universe to kill him and steal his body? In regards to the ToP, Zeno was going to erase all the lowest ranking universe anyways. Goku actually gave them a fighting chance. The only stupid things he did was challenge Beerus and act like a moron in the ToP. The selfish characters in this series have mostly been the grey alien, the dude with the widow's peak, and the two purple cats.
He didn't really act like a moron in TOP, he just acted like he didn't give a damn.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by Jigurashi » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:04 am

HeroR wrote:
Kaiosama wrote:
DragonBallFoodie wrote:
Goku is no stranger to bad decisions: letting go of Raditz's tail, giving Cell a senzu bean, waiting for the Androids to be made, etc.

But DBS decided to showcase just how destructive these decisions could get, ie him enabling the creation of Goku Black (the deaths of timelines) and enabling Zen-O to create a tournament where he could erase all the losers. I don't think if that was necessary, nor do I believe that should have happened. Why did the writers think it was necessary to show Goku as a screw-up on a level greater than DB had previously shown?
How would Goku know that fighting in a tournament that's being broadcast on GodTube cause a random Apprentice Kaioshin in another universe to kill him and steal his body? In regards to the ToP, Zeno was going to erase all the lowest ranking universe anyways. Goku actually gave them a fighting chance. The only stupid things he did was challenge Beerus and act like a moron in the ToP. The selfish characters in this series have mostly been the grey alien, the dude with the widow's peak, and the two purple cats.
He didn't really act like a moron in TOP, he just acted like he didn't give a damn.
Which only he (and Jiren to a lesser extent) funnily enough really gets shitted on for despite just about every character acting apathetic towards the stakes.
fadeddreams5 wrote:He was at his worst in the FT saga because the flanderization from previous arcs carried to the only serious arc in the series, accentuating how badly this combination meshes.

It's also kind of irritating that this incarnation of Goku is now what we get in other mediums too, like Fighterz Story Mode.
But he wasn’t really all that flanderized in previous arcs.

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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:33 pm

Jigurashi wrote:
It's also kind of irritating that this incarnation of Goku is now what we get in other mediums too, like Fighterz Story Mode.
But he wasn’t really all that flanderized in previous arcs.[/quote]

I can immediately recall a moment Goku really, really needed to pee, as well as one where he breaks through a wall when he learns Vegeta is training with Whis. Or him never realizing Monaka isn't strong, even being fooled by Beerus, who dresses up as him. Goku's most defining traits are constantly exaggerated in Super for comedic effect. Whether they work or not is up to the audience, but then there are moments where he's flat out uncharacteristic or off-putting, such as when he greets Black for the first time or the expressions he gives him after his speeches, which clash with the overall tone.

In DBZ, Goku was an idiot. Nobody can deny this. But it wasn't frequently played for comedic effect, nor did it clash with the darker moments in the story. He was dead serious when he committed stupid actions, be it giving Cell the senzu bean, not beating Majin Buu because he wanted the boys to do it, letting Vegeta live, and so on. There was a greater balance prior to Super, which made him more endearing. And honestly, if there was no flanderization here, then the general consensus wouldn't be that there is. It's pretty evident.
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Re: I fell GT Goku more better than Super Goku

Post by perucho1990 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:23 pm

Goku in the Super 17 Arc and Shadow Dragons Arc was probably the worst version of Goku, even lower than his Future Trunks self

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