Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

keyz05
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:02 am
Location: Plano, TX
Contact:

Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

Post by keyz05 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:06 am

Any villain which you think didn't fit the bill of some arc in Super. Regardless of design, depth, and how important they were in the overall story. Just the ones that were the most poorly written and wasted into thinking why this character was made to be in place of this arc in the first place.

Mine is going to be Copy-Vegeta. It was so damn pointless. Even outside the lens of the main story of the franchise. I guess they did it because of fan service and amuse the fans into thinking who is REALLY strong in the Goku/Vegeta rivalry(now friends if you didn't know that after the Buu saga).

I'm not talking about wasted potential or anything. But this post isn't about which villain is the most evil, in terms of their power scale. I'm talking about the characterization done for wasted potential for several episodes in to keep the series by reaching it's goal for it to be met for the series interests.

Super isn't perfect. It's never really an awesome series to even being with, in my opinion. True, they may be retcons along they way depending on how they want the series and it's characters to unfold. But at the same time, it's just gonna shark dive reputation the DragonBall franchise has in more than a decade. So far, the TOP arc is moving into my favor as an epic battle to the finish. With tensions building to see which plot-twists and power turns switch in every complex direction there is more than any other foe in the franchise. This is what truly gets me, people. A nerve-wrecking experience from one end to the other without hassle.

Leave your thoughts down below and explain why.

User avatar
Torturephile
Regular
Posts: 568
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:13 pm

Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

Post by Torturephile » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:48 am

A tie between Copy Vegeta and Jiren, the former for being nothing but yet another possessed/modified enemy Vegeta with an awful design and had the misfortune of being the main dish in a lackluster mini arc, and the latter for being devoid of anything that could possibly make a character special, strength aside.

This is, of course if Jiren could counts as the big bad in the ToP.
From Super episode 113 thread:
MaskedRider wrote:
Torturephile wrote:
hunduel wrote:I liked this episode. I seriously don't know why people hate it.
namekiansaiyan wrote:I seriously don't see why some of you like this episode when nothing happened and was basically filler.
The fandom in a nutshell.
The duality of man.

Kataphrut
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1518
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:12 pm

Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:38 am

Really, Jiren is the only outright misfire. Copy Vegeta should be held to a lower standard and there was nothing particularly offensive about him for the screen time he had, and that's before the dub elevated him by casting Brian Drummond.

It's a bit of an argument in Super since it doesn't have as many clear-cut villains as the old series. I would say the "antagonist" in any sense is the final physical threat that needs to be overcome. With that in mind, Super's antagonists are:

Beerus (great, though better in the movie)
Freeza (too iconic to call bad, even if his arc was lackluster. Redeemed by ToP)
Hit (cool, interesting powers, arguably the most well-liked and least-controversial)
Copy Vegeta (A BRILLIANT SCIENTIST! OVER 9000! Again, even without Drummond, he's not terrible)
Goku Black (cool, creepy, brought a generation of dub fans around to Nozawa)
Zamasu (interesting conceptually despite his flaws, an effort to be more complex, failing that satisfying to watch him fall)
Barry Kahn (closest thing to a villain in the filler arc apart from Hit again. Actually quite good)
Jiren (good moments and an intimidating presence, but built up for too long to justify his weak backstory, not to mention his characterisation is terribly inconsistent when it isn't non-existent).

Design-wise, again all but Jiren and Copy Vegeta are pretty good.
Last edited by Kataphrut on Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
SupremeKai25
I Live Here
Posts: 2022
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:40 am
Location: The ruins of the West City

Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:45 am

Jiren is the worst. I will not repeat the reasons for my choice, because you can guess them pretty easily. Boring design, dull personality, shallow backstory (how did he get the power to surpass Gods of Destruction themselves? We will never know). But no, I wouldn't really consider people like Beerus, Hit or Jiren as 'villains', they were just antagonists.

And, you know, it's a shame, because in the end the only original major Dragon Ball: Super villain was Zamasu (a shame not because Zamasu is a bad villain, haha, but because I expected more creativity in the villains department). Copy Vegeta was just a worthless antagonist that appeared for 2 episodes, I doubt anyone will remember him. Well, actually, Copy Vegeta shall be remembered as the villain who made people wait 2 more weeks for the Goku Black arc dub.
The power coursing through me is exceptional, glorious, absolute! Stare in awe, I am justice incarnate!

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

Post by sintzu » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:46 am

It'd have to be Jiren as he doens't have much going for him personality wise and it's worse when he's compared to Black who I think is up there with the best of DB villains.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
SsjCookie
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:54 am

Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

Post by SsjCookie » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:56 am

There haven't been all that many "REAL" bads in Super.

Copy vegeta is the only one who comes to mind.

But I'd say Zeno is the baddest bad, I mean...he wipes out whole universes for his own amusement.
So I vote for Zeno as being the best of the worst.
He has a terrible design and as a character he's not much better.


Btw, Zamasu was the best REAL villain of Super.

User avatar
MKCSTEALTH
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 811
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:50 pm

Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:40 am

Beerus was done well, but feel he lost any edge and just because a joke throughout the rest of the series. If it wasn't for his hakai against Zamasu, I probably wouldn't take him seriously at all.

Frieza was done fairly meh in the RoF arc, but I've loved seeing him in the tournament of power, and really look forward to what hes gonna do

Hit was awesome. I love everything about Hit

Copy Vegeta would be the worse...but in my eyes the dub completely saved those few episodes

And now my favs, Goku Black. I love everything about Goku Black. He actually did work and I'd say the level of horrors he's committed could be up there with Frieza in the old days of Z. Zamasu is great too, but I kind of wish they would've played more to his "torn" side a bit

And now we come to Jiren. Honestly, Jiren to me started off doing what Hit did: the silent big bad, who had no care about anyone. His backstory is fairly cliche, but man is he an absolute monster when it comes to fighting. Taking on Goku, Vegeta, 17, and Frieza at the same time almost was just awesome. What will make or break his character for me is what his wish will with the Super Dragonballs

User avatar
wolflonnie
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:57 pm

Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

Post by wolflonnie » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:52 am

Jiren, but his execution as TOP foe is very good. It's his background that is so bad and bland it partially ruins the character.

SuperCyan2
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

Post by SuperCyan2 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:07 pm

Jiren, Hit, the robot, the nipple guy, the old guy with the big mustache, the female Broli, the fat Beerus (he's not evil but sorta fits the criteria) and Golden Freeza. Awful designs, imo. And no personalities, especially for Jiren.
Account no longer in use since 03/31/2018.

lancerman
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 412
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:36 pm

Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

Post by lancerman » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:15 pm

Zamasu. Overly convoluted and nothing really interesting

User avatar
Spider-Man
Regular
Posts: 512
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:36 pm

Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

Post by Spider-Man » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:39 pm

Jiren: Boring,Generic and say nothing interesting.
    Zeno: Extremely annoying especially in the ToP saga.

    User avatar
    Aman
    Newbie
    Posts: 40
    Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:41 am

    Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

    Post by Aman » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:32 pm

    Jiren and it's not close.

    User avatar
    Basaku
    I'm pretty cozy, here...
    Posts: 1775
    Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:00 pm
    Location: Planet of the Apes

    Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

    Post by Basaku » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:05 pm

    So far (with 2 episodes still left for a potential upgrade) it's obviously Jiren. Freeza's return in ROF was the most uninspired thing ever, but Toriyama/Toei redeemed themselves with the idea of getting him involved in TOP and scheeming against the Gods.

    User avatar
    Akyon
    Regular
    Posts: 722
    Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:02 am

    Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

    Post by Akyon » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:32 am

    SuperCyan2 wrote:Jiren, Hit, the robot, the nipple guy, the old guy with the big mustache, the female Broli, the fat Beerus (he's not evil but sorta fits the criteria) and Golden Freeza. Awful designs, imo. And no personalities, especially for Jiren.
    I mean the designs are certainly down to personal preference, but Champa, Golden Frieza, Toppo and even Magetta having no personality is a shock to see.

    On topic; got to be Jiren. And unlike the others he's not going to get future episodes to develop either. Zeno gets a special mention for being very annoying and in stereo.
    Favourite User quote:
    Vice wrote:"Look at all these characters getting some shine in the buildup for the tournament of power, maybe we'll get to see some other characters do some stuff instead of the same old shit."
    1. Goku (Universe 7) has eliminated 6 competitor & Vegeta (Universe 7) has eliminated 6 competitors


    "Fuck."

    Kataphrut
    I'm pretty cozy, here...
    Posts: 1518
    Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:12 pm

    Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

    Post by Kataphrut » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:50 am

    For all the people saying Zeno, it's hard to classify him as a villain because he's just this cosmic being that everybody else is in thrall to. Yes, he causes the central conflict of the ToP and is the driving threat behind it, but the heroes can't do anything about it, and Goku is playing right into it. You might as well say the villain of any given Dragon Ball arc is Toriyama.

    For the record, I think Zeno is a great character conceptually, but the ToP ruined him. More creepy and quiet innocence (see his first appearance, the meeting with Goku in Future Trunks and a couple of isolated moments in ToP), less "SUGOI SUGOI" please.

    User avatar
    Cipher
    Born 'n Bred Here
    Posts: 5513
    Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:54 pm
    Location: Nagano
    Contact:

    Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

    Post by Cipher » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:02 am

    I mean, from where we stand right now, two episodes from the end of the anime and at the beginning of the Tournament of Power in the manga, it has to be no-contest Jiren, right?

    The rest of the "big bads" (and come on, now, copy-Vegeta does't count), Beerus, Freeza, Hit and Zamasu, are all varying degrees of fun and distinct in the vein of previous Dragon Ball villains (even if, to be fair, one of them is a previous Dragon Ball villain). Especially if this a discussion on the new material broadly instead of limited to the TV version of Super, in which case Battle of Gods and Resurrection "F" are the initial showcases for Beerus and Freeza respectively.

    Jiren was fun for a bit when he was being overwhelmingly powerful in episodes 109 and 110, but since that building tension went exactly nowhere for the rest of the story, it's up to the manga to show that something exciting or interesting can be done with him or to not do so at all.

    I think you can sell a memorable villain on power and single-mindedness alone, especially because that's actually, counter to some of the series' stigma, a complete rarity in Dragon Ball (I might be one of the few longtime fans who genuinely likes Broli as a villain). But you can't attempt to do that and have them voluntarily sit out the bulk of the conflict. That's a kind of pressure that's only memorable so long as it's constant.

    User avatar
    Helios518
    OMG CRAZY REG
    Posts: 890
    Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:42 pm
    Location: Not where you think

    Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

    Post by Helios518 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:23 am

    SuperCyan2 wrote:Jiren, Hit, the robot, the nipple guy, the old guy with the big mustache, the female Broli, the fat Beerus (he's not evil but sorta fits the criteria) and Golden Freeza. Awful designs, imo. And no personalities, especially for Jiren.
    You certainly are entitled to your opinion but half of those characters aren’t “Big Bads” and all of them (even Geran) has a personality.
    Why I use "Geran" instead of "Jiren"

    User avatar
    Lord Beerus
    Namekian Warrior
    Posts: 21005
    Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
    Location: A temple on a giant tree
    Contact:

    Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

    Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:27 am

    Can Jiren even classified as a "Big Bad"? I mean, yeah, he can be an asshole and he's an arrogant martial artists in series that prides itself in having many arrogant martial artists, but I wouldn't label anything he's done so far as villainous enough to put him in the same league as the King Piccolo, Raditz, Nappa, Vegeta, Freeza, Cell or Majin Boo, who would be very the "Big Bad's" of their respective arcs.

    User avatar
    Cure Dragon 255
    I Live Here
    Posts: 3827
    Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 5:23 pm

    Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

    Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:48 am

    Lord Beerus wrote:Can Jiren even classified as a "Big Bad"? I mean, yeah, he can be an asshole and he's an arrogant martial artists in series that prides itself in having many arrogant martial artists, but I wouldn't label anything he's done so far as villainous enough to put him in the same league as the King Piccolo, Raditz, Nappa, Vegeta, Freeza, Cell or Majin Boo, who would be very the "Big Bad's" of their respective arcs.
    Having...many arrogant martial artists? There must be a word missing in this post.
    AnimeMaakuo wrote:
    Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:38 am
    Enjoy unboxing crap :thumbup:. Your continued support for crap will give us more crap for many years to come! :clap:.
    90sDBZ wrote:
    Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
    19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

    User avatar
    Vegeta_Sama
    Regular
    Posts: 713
    Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:59 pm
    Location: Capsule Corporation

    Re: Who was the worst Big Bad in Super in your opinion?

    Post by Vegeta_Sama » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:41 pm

    Helios518 wrote: You certainly are entitled to your opinion but half of those characters aren’t “Big Bads” and all of them (even Geran ) has a personality.
    Why do you insist on calling him Geran? :lol: Is your auto correct constantly playing pranks on you, or do you have a reason?
    My interpretation of the Dragon Ball Canon

    Post Reply