Ideas for post-Super arcs

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Saturnine
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Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by Saturnine » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:05 am

Since there is wicked potential for future arcs in Super, and considering the necessity of increasing threats and stakes, what would your proposals for subsequent DB arcs be? Unlike GT we also have to take into account that huge power needs to be accompanied by equally huge importance (which means no random nobodies like Rilldo suddenly being stronger than an universal threat like Buu). My proposals:

1. Destruction Duels arc

Beerus and Champa treat Zeno's directives to become better GoDs seriously, e.g. they completely ignore them. Champa comes to visit Beerus, sees Goku and Vegeta training together and that gives him an idea - he makes Beerus a bet as to who can defeat more GoDs in battle before a time limit elapses, Goku or Vegeta? The winning Saiyan gets the Super DBs, while the winning GoD gets the right to being treated to the other universe's Earth's exclusively for a whole year. Vegeta joins up with Vados while Goku is accompanied by Whis, and they fight different GoDs in a race against the clock. Low stakes, but great fights. Finally Zeno chips in like he did after the U6 tournament to mention that he liked the fights, but scolds Beerus and Champa for doing inane shit like that instead of actually doing their jobs as the GoDs. Oh, and the contest is a draw, because Vegeta gets to fight Sidra last, and Sidra just concedes, which leaves Vegeta unsastisfied. No one gets the super DBs, or the food arrangement.

2. The Rogue Angel arc

Vegeta makes his promised visit to Sadala and explores the culture, while also evaluating Cabba's progress. Kale's unique SSj status is explored and explained, she might get a deeper backstory too. However this visit coincides with problems caused by an unknown enemy - who turns out to be an angel. Other angels are helpless to intervene, since they are not allowed to act against one of their own kind, and Zeno can't stop it, because he actually can't erase angels (or he can, but the GP talks him out of it and asks him for patience as Goku can deal with it). The angel is either one of the 3 from the lost universes, or Mojito, disillusioned by having to work with failures such as Roh and Sidra. Anyway, he destroys like 2 or 3 universes on his own, kills a few Kaioshins and nobody can stop him. Until Goku gets his power unleashed by Old Kai or something. ANyway yeah, not much of an idea beyond that

2. Tournament of Power II

Another ToP, this time much shorter and with no stakes in deletion - just to show how much everyone has progressed. This time the top universes compete too, and while there's no threat of erasure, warriors who fail to give it their ultimate all do risk erasure after a couple of warnings (to ensure good drama). Fights are fun, new warriors are strong and it's overall pretty dope, ends much faster too. The twist is some asshole wins and actually gets an evil wish in. Or something.

K, your turn :D

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sintzu
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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by sintzu » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:09 am

We'll probably get a sadal arc if that's not what the movie's about. We should also get another villain arc. A 3rd tournament seems like a sure thing. I'd also like to see those 6 universes zeno erased.
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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by Onibaku » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:33 am

Another ToP? Jesus, just no.

I would like for Goten and Kid Trunks to take the lead in the next arcs. Of course Goku and Vegeta would still be present, but this time taking a teacher figure for both of them to make them stronger.

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Saturnine
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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by Saturnine » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:50 am

Well frankly the only way to make the show interesting and engaging without ever-increasing stakes would be to sideline Goku and Vegeta entirely. Even fighters on the level of Mythical Gohan could have believable and threatening enemies to fight at this point. Goku and Vegeta on the other hand, not so much. Defeating gods of destruction and later angels in battle seems like the only direction it could logically go. This stuff is a bit tough to plan out and that was the biggest problem with GT, with Super 17 being as strong as he was (though to be fair, Super has exonerated that plot point somewhat with how strong it made 17), and the Shadow Dragons. IMO the Shadow Dragons would have fit nicely between Vegeta and Namek at best, considering how lowly Shenron is. Omega Shenron should be probably Recoome level to be believable, but that's just me.

But yeah, if removing Goku and Vegeta or relegating them to an angel-like mentoring role were taken into consideration, then Toriyama and the other writers would have to really take special care to avoid any such arc turning out like just another theatrical movie. It's easy to write a one-shot villain, but it's hard to make the story actually have impact, be emotionally engaging and contribute to the grander scheme of things in any way.

So yeah, with all that in mind an angel villain seems like the logical next step here IMO. I wouldn't mind seeing a proper Uub training arc either though, provided there is both a rewarding journey and a rewarding destination.

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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by Mercenary » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:55 am

Saturnine wrote:Well frankly the only way to make the show interesting and engaging without ever-increasing stakes would be to sideline Goku and Vegeta entirely. Even fighters on the level of Mythical Gohan could have believable and threatening enemies to fight at this point. Goku and Vegeta on the other hand, not so much. Defeating gods of destruction and later angels in battle seems like the only direction it could logically go. This stuff is a bit tough to plan out and that was the biggest problem with GT, with Super 17 being as strong as he was (though to be fair, Super has exonerated that plot point somewhat with how strong it made 17), and the Shadow Dragons. IMO the Shadow Dragons would have fit nicely between Vegeta and Namek at best, considering how lowly Shenron is. Omega Shenron should be probably Recoome level to be believable, but that's just me.

But yeah, if removing Goku and Vegeta or relegating them to an angel-like mentoring role were taken into consideration, then Toriyama and the other writers would have to really take special care to avoid any such arc turning out like just another theatrical movie. It's easy to write a one-shot villain, but it's hard to make the story actually have impact, be emotionally engaging and contribute to the grander scheme of things in any way.

So yeah, with all that in mind an angel villain seems like the logical next step here IMO. I wouldn't mind seeing a proper Uub training arc either though, provided there is both a rewarding journey and a rewarding destination.

No need to sideline Vegeta though. Goku? Yeah, it would be refreshing.

But imagine an arc, I dunno, let's say Sadala arc, where we only follow Vegeta's story and his steps. That would be awesome.

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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by Grimlock » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:07 am

Either we get to go to Universe 6's planet Sadala, or the next anime series expands upon Movie 16 and actually focus on the past Universe 7's Saiyans.

If not one of them, then just bring Dragon Ball Online content already.
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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by Saturnine » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:27 am

Sure would, but I really can't imagine any sort of threat or tension with Vegeta present there. There is no one in U6 that can even remotely threaten him now, with the exception of Champa, who'd probably be busy eating stuff anyway.

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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:55 am

I want to see the return of Zamasu and an alliance bewteen him and the Dark Demon Realm to overthrow the King of All and reshape the Multiverse in their image.
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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by Desassina » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:02 pm

1. Goku's reincarnation into a new character who's born on Earth without knowing whether he's a Saiyan or not.
2. Vegeta becoming a resident on Hell as the new Akkuman when he learns that Goku can't go back to what he was.
3. The two of them meeting up in Fortuneteller Baba's place like Goku did in the original Dragon Ball to know who he is.
4. Piccolo wishing to become Porunga so that he can be sealed away in immortality as the most powerful being from Namek.
5. The concept of image projection to all those who are Ki sensitive, including the Wolf Fang Fist, as well as the new Oozaruken.
6. A new demon showing up with the most fatal image projection technique, Maouken, which forever traps the mind in a vision of Hell.
7. Akkuman Vegeta showing up in this vision of his to free the soul of Goku's reincarnation when his body could be assumed for dead.
8. Characters trapped in limbo becoming visible due to this event and a new found power up based on taking his soul to its limits.
9. Piccolo taking him on a trip to another plane of existence made of knowledge and power so that he can see it materialized.

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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by Mnich » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:56 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:I want to see the return of Zamasu and an alliance bewteen him and the Dark Demon Realm to overthrow the King of All and reshape the Multiverse in their image.
Sorry to disappoint you pal, but it looks like Zamasu despises demons and considers them as abominations.

https://youtu.be/Gzovso6C9uo?t=306

I would like to see another adventure arc with Dragon Balls in the background.

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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:21 pm

Sorry to disappoint you pal, but it looks like Zamasu despises demons and considers them as abominations.

https://youtu.be/Gzovso6C9uo?t=306
I will take the non-canon quote from a non-canon game with a grain of salt, but thank you for telling me that.
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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by Grimlock » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:33 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:I will take the non-canon quote from a non-canon game with a grain of salt.
I think you mean "for a franchise that does not have a canon" somewhere in that.

Also, it makes sense that Zamasu does not hang around with Time Breakers, he called Trunks "sinner" just for time travelling. Obviously he would be against Mira and Towa.
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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by emperior » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:42 pm

It would be cool if we got a enemy killed by a member of the Mazoku (Demon Clan) who wandered in a limbo for 1000 years where he trained by fighting all his fears until he became extremely powerful.
Or, on the contrary, a new enemy which is the original member of the Mazoku.
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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by Logania » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:11 pm

- Time Breakers Arc
- Planet Sadal Arc
- Angel Revolt Arc (I want that evil Grand Priest)
- Adventures of Jaco and Monaka Arc (beautiful)
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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by Saturnine » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:56 am

Grimlock wrote:
I think you mean "for a franchise that does not have a canon" somewhere in that.
Weeeeeellll, the problem is that it kinda does. Super and GT for instance cannot co-occur, and one has to take precedence over the other (and we're led to believe it's Super). Likewise, games are for the most part what-if stories that never really happened in the main show's timeline. The primary canon is the DB manga and Super (manga and anime equally, supposedly).

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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by Grimlock » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:50 am

Saturnine wrote:Weeeeeellll, the problem is that it kinda does. Super and GT for instance cannot co-occur, and one has to take precedence over the other (and we're led to believe it's Super). Likewise, games are for the most part what-if stories that never really happened in the main show's timeline. The primary canon is the DB manga and Super (manga and anime equally, supposedly).
That's your headcanon though, it hasn't been stated to be that case anywhere.
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SupremeKai25
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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:51 am

Grimlock wrote:
SupremeKai25 wrote:I will take the non-canon quote from a non-canon game with a grain of salt.
I think you mean "for a franchise that does not have a canon" somewhere in that.

Also, it makes sense that Zamasu does not hang around with Time Breakers, he called Trunks "sinner" just for time travelling. Obviously he would be against Mira and Towa.
I will take every Zamasu's interaction from that game with a grain of salt, because in that same game Zamasu teams up with a mortal and even shares some of his techniques with him.

There are many ways that the producers could make this work, if they truly wanted to. If the Dark Demon Realm offered Zamasu the means that he needed to orchestrate a rebellion against the King of All, then Zamasu wouldn't refuse their help. He would possibly distrust them, and even doubt whether the Demons' help is sincere, but to refuse their aid? Perhaps Zamasu would simply exploit the Dark Demon Realm to dethrone the King of All, and once he achieved his goal, he would backstab the Demon trash and erase them with his newfound powers. The Demons would therefore be a mere mean to an end, nothing more. This alliance would be, in Zamasu's mind, a necessary 'sacrifice' to build his utopian world. And likewise, the Dark Demon Realm would see in Zamasu, a rogue Kai, a perfect ally and perhaps even an agent for their plans. I would truly love to see the chemistry between Zamasu and the Demons, with each side trying to deceive the other and ultimately emerge victorious.

Yes, the Time Breakers are lowly Demons, and they are messing with the divine Realm of Time, therefore Zamasu would see them as sinners; then why is he willing to team-up with a mortal, another sinner, and even be their mentor? Therefore, f we take Xenoverse 2 into account, Zamasu is willing to ally with sinners if such a pact benefits him.
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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by Grimlock » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:03 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:I will take every Zamasu's interaction from that game with a grain of salt, because in that same game Zamasu teams up with a mortal and even shares some of his techniques with him.
You mean Zamasu as mentor for your Time Patroller? C'mon, this was just to add more characters as mentors, other villains are mentors just to vary the way you get techniques. Dismissing a game for an in-game function that doesn't have anything to do with the Story Mode is kinda... pathetic.

Or you mean Infinite History mode where Zamasu teams up with Jiren? If so, then you should take Future Trunks saga as a whole with a grain of salt because Zamasu teamed up with a mortal too, and what's worse, a god inside a mortal body...
SupremeKai25 wrote:Yes, the Time Breakers are lowly Demons, and they are messing with the divine Realm of Time, therefore Zamasu would see them as sinners; then why is he willing to team-up with a mortal, another sinner, and even be their mentor? Therefore, f we take Xenoverse 2 into account, Zamasu is willing to ally with sinners if such a pact benefits him.
Again, making Zamasu a mentor means nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's the Story Mode what you should be looking at, not a game function that exists only for you to get more techniques instead of keep going to Parallel Quests over and over where the RNG sucks.
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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:18 am

You mean Zamasu as mentor for your Time Patroller? C'mon, this was just to add more characters as mentors, other villains are mentors just to vary the way you get techniques. Dismissing a game for an in-game function that doesn't have anything to do with the Story Mode is kinda... pathetic.
It does have a lot to do with the Story Mode, because in the latest DLC your mentor --Zamasu included-- plays a key role in your storyline.
Or you mean Infinite History mode where Zamasu teams up with Jiren? If so, then you should take Future Trunks saga as a whole with a grain of salt because Zamasu teamed up with a mortal too, and what's worse, a god inside a mortal body...
Yes, which proves my point that Zamasu is not beyond 'contradicting' his own ideologies if it benefits him.

In the video you posted, Goku Black states that his utopia has no place for the Demons. But that doesn't mean that he cannot ally with the Demons to create his utopia, and then get rid of them once they have outlived their usefulness.
Again, making Zamasu a mentor means nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's the Story Mode what you should be looking at,
But if Zamasu is your mentor, he plays a vital role in the Story Mode of the latest DLC pack.

This is out of topic anyway, so I won't continue this argument. What I proposed is merely an idea of mine, it doesn't have to make sense from a story standpoint. And indeed the OP only asked for an arc that raised the stakes and threats that the protagonists face. An alliance between Zamasu and the Dark Empire of the Demons to dethrone the current God's hierarchy? Yes, I think such an enemy would be quite powerful and challenging, and the stakes could have never been higher than before.
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Re: Ideas for post-Super arcs

Post by Bulma's Foot Masseur » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:06 am

I think it's time for Time Patrol Trunks to make his debut. It's not like he's busy or anything.

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