"Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 14/07]

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:06 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:EDIT: I keep posting in the wrong goddamn thread every time. :lol: I really should make a habit of actually looking at the thread title before posting.

I'm surprised by how well the CG blended in with the rest of the animation. I didn't even realise that it was CG when I watched the trailer the first few times.
I did, it stuck out like a very sore thumb. Only complaint really. Sucks it seems to be happening during the battle damaged Goku vs Broly fight too. /:
I've found that how much the CGI stuck out varied from person to person. I know quite a few people that spotted it straight away, but there have also been loads of people that only noticed on secondary viewings and missed it on the first.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 14/07]

Post by Mister_Popo » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:15 am

JazzMazz wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:EDIT: I keep posting in the wrong goddamn thread every time. :lol: I really should make a habit of actually looking at the thread title before posting.

I'm surprised by how well the CG blended in with the rest of the animation. I didn't even realise that it was CG when I watched the trailer the first few times.
I did, it stuck out like a very sore thumb. Only complaint really. Sucks it seems to be happening during the battle damaged Goku vs Broly fight too. /:
I've found that how much the CGI stuck out varied from person to person. I know quite a few people that spotted it straight away, but there have also been loads of people that only noticed on secondary viewings and missed it on the first.
I bearly noticed it because it blended so well.
I'm no CGI- or animation-expert.
With the use of CGI: are the basics still hand-drawn, just with added CGI-effects?
Or is it completely made by computer (the whole character)?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 14/07]

Post by emperior » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:48 am

cuartas wrote:The trailer was absolutely meh :thumbdown:
- Base goku at the beggining of the trailer just looked like the uncorrected goku on teaser
- I liked all vegeta closeups when blocking the punches, very DBZ stylish, and I guess that was shida, especially in base broly initial rage animation
- No remarkable animation at all
- The effects looked terrible
- SSJG goku close up it's just :sick: that eye shape... like wtf?
- pure BS 3D animation in one moment of SSB

Honestly, I expected more, remember this movie has to surpass DBS 130, because suppossedly has the foundation to be amazingly animated
- No he didn’t. He looks more like how he looks in that first promotional poster we got where he was holding the Nyoibo.
- That was all by your idol Takahashi.
- No remarkable animation? Are you sure we watched the same trailer?
- Ok, now I am sure we watched different trailers. You should watch the animated thing, not the screencaps analysis.
- That’s always been SSG’s eye shape, as Toriyama designed it that way. I don’t see what’s wrong with it though.
- That CG animation actually fits quite well with the visuals of the movie. I can see why some don’t like it, and I would personally prefer the CG animation to not be there, but at least it’s nowhere as bad as it was in BoG and RoF.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 14/07]

Post by Sin » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:50 am

JazzMazz wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:EDIT: I keep posting in the wrong goddamn thread every time. :lol: I really should make a habit of actually looking at the thread title before posting.

I'm surprised by how well the CG blended in with the rest of the animation. I didn't even realise that it was CG when I watched the trailer the first few times.
I did, it stuck out like a very sore thumb. Only complaint really. Sucks it seems to be happening during the battle damaged Goku vs Broly fight too. /:
I've found that how much the CGI stuck out varied from person to person. I know quite a few people that spotted it straight away, but there have also been loads of people that only noticed on secondary viewings and missed it on the first.
I feel like I could tell by the framerate dropping, or was that just me? It's the same jarring experience as when watching the new Berserk anime.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 14/07]

Post by Mister_Popo » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:21 am

Sin wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote: I did, it stuck out like a very sore thumb. Only complaint really. Sucks it seems to be happening during the battle damaged Goku vs Broly fight too. /:
I've found that how much the CGI stuck out varied from person to person. I know quite a few people that spotted it straight away, but there have also been loads of people that only noticed on secondary viewings and missed it on the first.
I feel like I could tell by the framerate dropping, or was that just me? It's the same jarring experience as when watching the new Berserk anime.
I guess every big live-action or animated comic / sci-fi / fantasy- movie project has CG to some degree these days. As long as it's not overused it doesn't worry me at all.
What we saw in this trailer is very minimal and by no means comparable with Berserk.

It blended in a lot nicer than with ROF and BOG too. I saw it there immediately too. If someone had not said it, i probably hadn't even noticed it was CG.
I don't know an awful lot of it but i think it's intresting to see how they actually blend in the 3D-frames into a 2D-movie. That's an art on its own i can appreciate.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 14/07]

Post by cuartas » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:25 am

emperior wrote: - No he didn’t. He looks more like how he looks in that first promotional poster we got where he was holding the Nyoibo.
- That was all by your idol Takahashi.
- No remarkable animation? Are you sure we watched the same trailer?
- Ok, now I am sure we watched different trailers. You should watch the animated thing, not the screencaps analysis.
- That’s always been SSG’s eye shape, as Toriyama designed it that way. I don’t see what’s wrong with it though.
- That CG animation actually fits quite well with the visuals of the movie. I can see why some don’t like it, and I would personally prefer the CG animation to not be there, but at least it’s nowhere as bad as it was in BoG and RoF.
- Welp, it's the same shit actually, the extra roundness was present in the teaser and the poster
- All the shots of vegeta blocking punches, yes, but I'm referring to Broly rage animation, where he moves his head everywhere, that's so Shida esque, although I don't see why mini shida can't do that as well, but anyways, Shida was my first assumption. And yes, is my idol, isn't it yours? :shock:
- Yes, we saw the same trailer, and compared to 130, 131 and 110, there's no remarkable animation at all, I mean blocking punches in one pose, closing up each other to land a punch (that was the actual action in the trailer) is not remarkable for me, sorry. Of course there's going to be more movement and fast paced battles in the actual movie, but in the trailer scale, the animation wasn't that impressive
- ??? I saw the auras, the power ups, the smoke effects, the explosions and I just compare it with Karasawa smoke effect in 129 or goku explosion (vs black) for instance, or Miuma in 130, or Shida and Takahashi anywhere in the anime and the effects on the trailer are rather than mediocre
- No it's not, if you get rid of the eyebrow and draw the entire eye you'll see how it looks like a cartoon eye, the part on bottom has to be almost equally wider as the rest of the eye in that shape, but in the trailer, is way less wide and it looks terrible, I get that is how it looks in base form with shintani's design, but in SSJ it wasn't that way.
But it's not only the eye, it's the hole that goku has instead of a nose, and the detail below the eye that is :sick: as I pointed out in an earlier post with 2 images, coming from that perfect vegeta to that goku is disheartening
- In a movie where it's style is supposedly there to make animation way easier I don't see why CG has to be there, it's like a contradiction, so nope, I can't accept any CG frame in the action scenes
Last edited by cuartas on Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 14/07]

Post by jjgp1112 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:42 am

I think what helped the CG is that in BOG and especially RF, the CG looked like low end Xenoverse cut scenes while the two parts in this trailer look like something from FighterZ, which was a bit closer to a 2d animated style.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 14/07]

Post by FortuneSSJ » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:46 am

jjgp1112 wrote:I think what helped the CG is that in BOG and especially RF, the CG looked like low end Xenoverse cut scenes while the two parts in this trailer look like something from FighterZ, which was a bit closer to a 2d animated style.
Not only that, but in this movie the characters designs are simpler which helps the CGI scenes blending better with the rest.
Unfortunately it's still noticeable, but not as much.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 14/07]

Post by omegalucas » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:05 am

It's only noticeable because of the "perfect" shading CG always has, because it's calculated by a computer (unlike the irregularity of the hand-drawn shading). You can see that in the shading of the hands and muscles, it follows the shape of the body too closely and that gives it a blobby appearance causing an uncanny valley feel.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by Ajay » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:17 pm

Absolutely flawed by the trailer. Feels like a real victory after campaigning for this approach for years. Seriously amazing.

Updated the OP with the trailer, some new staff details, and the designs from V Jump and the Comic Con panel.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by AnimeNation101 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:58 pm

2 nitpicks production wise. I really dont like CG and I’d prefer it wasn’t used at all or was instead used for stuff like buildings or machines rather than characters but oh well. Another thing is consistency. Sure its great to be seeing everyone, especially Takahashi, but ill never really be able to become immersed in the movie because the style will constantly be changing. I hope the footage from the trailer was stuff that has yet to be corrected but will be soon. Don’t go crazy on corrections like Yamamuro but make all the styles at least resemble the main Shintani designs a bit more.

The action, effects, and colors are beautiful.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by jjgp1112 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:18 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:2 nitpicks production wise. I really dont like CG and I’d prefer it wasn’t used at all or was instead used for stuff like buildings or machines rather than characters but oh well. Another thing is consistency. Sure its great to be seeing everyone, especially Takahashi, but ill never really be able to become immersed in the movie because the style will constantly be changing. I hope the footage from the trailer was stuff that has yet to be corrected but will be soon. Don’t go crazy on corrections like Yamamuro but make all the styles at least resemble the main Shintani designs a bit more.

The action, effects, and colors are beautiful.
Yeah the consistency was my big pickle. I mean, nobody will complain about Takahashi obviously but I'd prefer more cohesion in one package.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by MonkeyKing16 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:49 pm

I didn't notice the CG until someone brought it up.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by FortuneSSJ » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:37 pm

- Movie Animation Supervisors-

I'm really glad Takahashi will be an animation supervisor. If I can't have him as the character designer, then that's the minimum I expected from this movie if they're seriously aiming for "the best looking DB movie ever".

Naoki Tate and Ryo Onishi seem to be absent from other projects lately, so they may be supervisors here too.

BOG Animation Supervisors were: Takeo Ide, Toshiyuki Kanno, Yosuke Yabumoto, Masahiro Shimanuki, Ryo Onishi and Yuichi Hamano.
ROF: Takeo Ide, Masahiro Shimanuki, Koji Nashizawa, Yuki Hayashi and Kodai Watanabe

Assuming Naoki Tate and Ryo Onishi will be Animation Supervisors along with Yuya Takahashi, we should still have three more. I would love Yuichi Karasawa and Shuuichiro Manabe to be two of them.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by MrTennek » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:43 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:2 nitpicks production wise. I really dont like CG and I’d prefer it wasn’t used at all or was instead used for stuff like buildings or machines rather than characters but oh well. Another thing is consistency. Sure its great to be seeing everyone, especially Takahashi, but ill never really be able to become immersed in the movie because the style will constantly be changing. I hope the footage from the trailer was stuff that has yet to be corrected but will be soon. Don’t go crazy on corrections like Yamamuro but make all the styles at least resemble the main Shintani designs a bit more.

The action, effects, and colors are beautiful.
Yeah the consistency was my big pickle. I mean, nobody will complain about Takahashi obviously but I'd prefer more cohesion in one package.
Yeah, because the original Z films were totally visually consistent art-wise from start to finish. :roll: People have grown far too used to Yamamuro's control-freak, "everything needs to perfectly resemble my art style" corrections.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by AnimeNation101 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:01 pm

MrTennek wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:2 nitpicks production wise. I really dont like CG and I’d prefer it wasn’t used at all or was instead used for stuff like buildings or machines rather than characters but oh well. Another thing is consistency. Sure its great to be seeing everyone, especially Takahashi, but ill never really be able to become immersed in the movie because the style will constantly be changing. I hope the footage from the trailer was stuff that has yet to be corrected but will be soon. Don’t go crazy on corrections like Yamamuro but make all the styles at least resemble the main Shintani designs a bit more.

The action, effects, and colors are beautiful.
Yeah the consistency was my big pickle. I mean, nobody will complain about Takahashi obviously but I'd prefer more cohesion in one package.
Yeah, because the original Z films were totally visually consistent art-wise from start to finish. :roll: People have grown far too used to Yamamuro's control-freak, "everything needs to perfectly resemble my art style" corrections.
It’s like you haven’t even read my post. Corrections have always been a thing in Dragon Ball and any anime. Its important that your final product looks consistent because if not, you’d get a super-detailed Vegeta with loads of good shading for 1 minute and then the next cut is of a Vegeta with no shading at all. In one scene Freeza looks all round and bubbly and then the next second, Freeza looks completely different. Different animators have different styles and they can show them off but a lack of consistency ruins immersion. Just like how people who were watching the trailer lost immersion when if they noticed the scene of CG because of how it came out of no where and wasn’t consistent to the 2d animation from the rest of the trailer.

Super lacked consistency and showed off all those styles because their production was too poor to worry about it. This is a movie. And yeah. The Z movies were a hell of a lot more consistent than this trailer was.

Now it seems you not reading anything made you miss the part where i said “Don’t go crazy on corrections like Yamamuro but make all the styles at least resemble the main Shintani designs a bit more.” Please don’t reply any more unless you actually read what you’re replying to.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by Sin » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:11 pm

Ajay wrote:Absolutely flawed by the trailer. Feels like a real victory after campaigning for this approach for years. Seriously amazing.

Updated the OP with the trailer, some new staff details, and the designs from V Jump and the Comic Con panel.

It makes me wonder why they went for this approach, they certainly didn't have to.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by KayDash » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:39 am

I know it's first world problem, but in SSJ God form why does the yellow parts on Goku's clothes turn red, but stay yellow on Vegeta's clothes?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 14/07]

Post by JazzMazz » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:12 am

cuartas wrote:
Hit!! wrote:
jeffbr92 wrote:
For thinking different than you? I thought the trailer was great, but I also respect people opinions who didn't like it
Hating for the sake of hating is not "thinking different".
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

This is not hating for the sake of hating
Funny thing is, that abomination comes after this masterpiece (I assume it's Takahashi):

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

And this trailer just shows how the animators are throwing drawings on their own, without a minimal intent of consistency
There is nothing particularly wrong with that SSG shot. Its simply a transformation that has softer linework due to the nature of the transformation making the characters themselves softer. Not sure what your point at the nose for, its a half moon nose, something Tate did a lot on Super. The eye shape is certainly unique to the design on closer inspection, but I don't necessarily see the problem with it, and the softer lines under the eyes, are again, suited to the relaxed nature of the expression.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by emperior » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:53 am

I have read some people complain about art inconsistency in the trailer, and while that is a fine complain I am actually happy animators have been given freedom to deviate a little from the models.
We are still getting the minimalistic shading, jet black hair and good colors so the new designs are still being showed. It’s just that the trailer was off-model, but wasn’t the point of this new simpler designs the flexibility they offer to animators?
And didn’t we criticise Yamamuro for his approach to movies, where he was correcting literally everything?
I wouldn’t be opposed to Shintani correcting a lot of drawings here and there to provide more visual consistency, but the approach he is seemingly taking is also fine.
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