Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by ssj4 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:05 pm

With Super coming to an end, I was wondering, how does the fanbase view it? Does it live up to the original and Z? Is it better than GT or only by a small fraction? How does it fare overall?

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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by lancerman » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:16 pm

It was probably the most cohesive series from beginning to end with using concepts established in the first arc and constantly building on them to one conclusion. I think the biggest problem with it will ultimately be that it really boils down to the final arc. The first two arcs were just setting the stage and based off the films, the U6 arc was really just a precuror to the tournament. The Zamuso arc was the only real standalone arc and even so I feel like most of it was just to establish Zeno and his power to be a threat in the next arc while giving the series a real true antagonist that wasn't Freeza or a psuedo good guy (Beerus/Hit/Jiren).

I think it greatly expanded the mythos in a big way. I think it definitely nailed the fail of Toriyama's Dragon Ball that GT always lacked. I loved the last arc and it was one of my favorites in the series.

I think it suffered for being a bit too fanservicey in places and being very liberal with power ups. It also had issues with poor animation at points, though I feel like the problems with the first two arcs unfairly carried over and people were more critical of later episodes that were far better but just not on the high end (which is kind of funny because Super absolutely has the best animated episodes in the series if you compare the best stuff from each). I also think power scaling became a bit too much, but it was understandable why they did it.

Overall it was a very strong addition to the series and I'd put it solidly ahead of GT. Don't know if I'd rank it above the original stuff just because it was kind of top heavy with it's best arc. Maybe it would be if I got to have the two movies in place of the arcs, that way there wouldn't really be any weakness.

I'd give it probably a 7/10. I think if this was what we got after Z it would be regarded more highly in general and far better received than GT and for someone who did like GT, this made me glad it has sort of been relegated to alternate canon.

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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:16 am

It got off to a bad start which it never fully recovered from, even until the very end. In spite of all that, it managed to pull together and became something that was entertaining, refreshing and occasionally brilliant at it's heights.

No, it doesn't live up to the original series. Yes, it is MILES better than GT and anybody trying to make that argument clearly hasn't watched GT in a while. Toriyama's involvement is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, new characters and concept feel more original than most of the "expanded universe" output from the likes of Toei or Bandai. But the big plot arcs suffered from the lack of a guiding hand on the reins, causing them to fall apart in various ways despite all of them showing a lot of promise at the start.

I enjoyed it, I'll miss it, and I hope whatever followup we get carries on what it set up, hopefully with better management on the story and production side. As big as the scale and stakes of the Universe Survival Arc were, there's still untapped potential there.

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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by Asura » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:22 am

lancerman wrote:It was probably the most cohesive series from beginning to end
I would not call Super cohesive, in fact I would say the exact opposite, that Super was by far the least cohesive series from beginning to end. Things happened because they looked cool. There were so many moments that made absolutely no sense that left fans trying to perform mental gymnastics to fill in the holes the writers left. SSJ Ikari? Spirit Bomb Sword? Infinite stamina? SSB Royal Blue? Power scaling that was all over the place? Jiren's wish? Just to name a few...

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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by Kanious » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:27 am

I myself really love it. The start was bad, but DBS is more consistent/cohesive than Z, for sure.

Well, for the fanbase... let's remember that Dragon Ball Super is an anime which in many parts of the world put THOUSANDS of people in the streets to watch (Argentina, Peru, Chile, Mexico and other countries. On Mexico alone there was a single street with more than 10.000 people watching DBS), did any anime ever did that? In my country, DBS made the Cartoon Network channel become the top of paid channels again, a thing that did not happen for many years. Dragon Ball Super is a huge success everywhere.

I think that with its goods and bads, DBS ended well, with a good reception from the public, that's what i feel.

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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by Asura » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:31 am

Kataphrut wrote: Yes, it is MILES better than GT and anybody trying to make that argument clearly hasn't watched GT in a while.
I'd say it's the exact opposite, that most people saying Super was miles better than GT clearly haven't watched GT in a while. After all, it's got such a bad rep about it that most people probably only watched it once a long time ago, or in the case of many people I've met (just anecdotal evidence) they've never even watched it to begin with.

GT had some great moments and the Baby arc was very well done. Super Saiyan 4 is a vastly superior transformation to Super Saiyan Blue, and Goku's characterization in GT is handled so, so, so much better than in Super.
I'm not necessarily saying GT is better than Super, but the two are a lot closer than you make them out to be IMO.

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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by gofishus » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:33 am

I don't think anyone would consider Super equal to Z. Z is by far superior, and its not really that close .

Someone above said that Super is MILES ahead of GT which I disagree with. I made a habit of watching Super and GT at the same time so I could compare the two better, but always find myself gravitating towards GT still. It really depends what you are after. GT is definitely closer animation-style, to the original Z. GT's power scaling was handled a lot better than Super. Super started out with Goku and Beerus threatening to smash the universe out of existence. That is too much. Then Frieza, Trunks, 17, one after the other got ridiculous power boosts. To give you a perspective, SSJG the first transformation in the series is already way more powerful than SSJ4. Beerus could probably take down Omega Shenron the final boss of GT without even flinching. That's my problem with Super, the power creep in Super is quite ridiculous. At the end, you have characters that can erase the existence of an entire universe in a snap, and that's just not fun or challenging in any way.

I don't really care if GT is "canon" or not, it just feels like a more natural power creep than Super. That said a lot of Super's characters are better written than GT, like Hit or Goku Black their characters pretty much destroy GT's evil characters in terms of development. I felt like Super had too many transformations (especially for Goku) and too many things were left unexplained. We still don't know what exactly SSJ Rage is, and we still don't know why Tuffles and Yardrats were in Universe 2. It's also inconsistent. Vegeta and Goku get their stamina back every episode during the ToP I think. Vegeta, Master Roshi and Android 17 were definitely better used in Super than in GT (bar the Baby Saga Vegeta is almost a no show in GT). The rest of the characters - meh, they had a few fights in the ToP but a lot of them like Tien and Krillin were still wasted in the end. In terms of special attacks and fusions, GT has that going for them as the Dragon Fist and Gogeta of course. I like SSJ4 better than any of the transformations in Super bar Ultra Instinct which I do like.

I don't think Super is miles ahead of GT. They have different pros and cons. I don't think one is definitively better than the other.

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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:37 am

Honestly, I thoroughly enjoyed Super. I feel like it didn't live up to the potential it could have had, but what we got was entertaining. I absolutely love the Goku Black arc, and the Tournament of Power offered many awesome new characters and battles. Some of which I still watch to this day.

My big gripe is the lack of real closure. There are several plot lines we still haven't had resolved. Frieza is alive again, what does that mean? What of Jiren's wish? We're the previously erased Universes brought back?

It's flawed, but enjoyable. Id give it a 7.5/10

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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by Analytical Delusion » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:09 am

Honestly, it's really hard to top DBZ at its best. I think the Saiyan, Namek, and Android sagas were very well-executed, and felt pretty epic. We'd begin from a state of peace, there'd be some initial threat or warning, followed by awesome training scenes, high tension, surprising climax and a satisfying conclusion. That's not a feeling I got from the Buu saga, or most anything in the original Dragon Ball. I think if we view the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai and Piccolo Daimao sagas as parts of one single arc, then it comes close.

Now that the Super anime is complete, when taken as a whole I think it clearly rates ahead of the rest of DB/DBZ (Hunt for the Dragonballs/21st TB/Red Ribbon/23rd TB/Buu). What we really have are several mini-arcs that contribute to the final product:

Battle of Gods - Introduces us to Beerus/Whis, the power of gods, teases other universes
Revival of F - Goku and Vegeta train in the new realm of power, brings Freeza back (who develops as a character)
Universe 6 - Introduces the U6 Characters and Champa (so we're invested in them later), Super Shenron and Zeno (who brings up the new tournament)
Exhibition Match/Recruitment - We see more of the other universes, stakes are built up, and U7 plan for the final war
Tournament of Power - Everyone from earlier in the series comes together, Freeza's character arc comes full circle, and in the end the mortals satisfy the gods

While this is all underway, there's the subplot foreshadowing Ultra Instinct from when Goku and Vegeta first start training with Whis. Additionally, even though each saga takes place over a short period of time, together they take place over several years. This is incredibly cohesive to me, and I really enjoyed it. The Future Trunks/Zamasu stuff was the best standalone arc, though my issue is you can remove it from the plot, and nothing is affected in terms of the whole story. Still, I think it was written pretty well.

All in all I think there are some rough edges, but to me Super is as good as most of DB/DBZ, and only comes short of DBZ at its best (with a Kai treatment or maybe the final manga product, maybe it comes out even more favorably).

In terms of GT? Setting aside the non-canon/no Toriyama stuff, it was hard for me to get invested. I actually really liked the idea of heading into space (I wish Gohan/Kuririn/Bulma travelled more, though execution is everything...the space children were great, but Fake Namek sucked). Even though some of the designs were good, it just felt like they weren't visiting places in the DB Universe. It kind of felt like Goku, Pan and Trunks were exploring what space would be like in an American Sunday Morning cartoon, and fell very flat.

The Baby stuff reminded me of the worst elements of the Garlic Junior mini-arc (as an aside, I enjoyed the Garlic Junior movie, but the episodes were trash), there wasn't enough payoff for Uub, the fights were boring, and I really don't like the SSJ4 concept or design. Then the escape from hell and Android 17 stuff, which both happened too quick, and felt like another bad movie plot. The Shadow Dragons stuff was terrible too. None of them aside from Yi felt like a real threat, and that was another terrible fight (Vegeta and Gogeta look even worse in SSJ4 than Goku). Then you have a shoehorned ending with a timeskip, with more crap the viewer isn't invested in (I understand the special came out earlier so Goku Jr was a known quantity, but the audience isn't made to care). Only on the most basic level (there's a cost to using the dragon balls, and Goku needs to 'go away' with Shenron to do penance for overuse) is any of this interesting.

So yeah, GT doesn't do it for me on any level, and I think in the end Super clearly delivered in a similar fashion to the best from DB/DBZ. I think if I was rating:

DB Hunt - 3/10
21st TB - 3/10
Red Ribbon - 1/10
22nd TB/Piccolo - 7/10
23rd TB - 4/10
(DB as a whole 4/10)
Saiyans - 10/10
Namek - 10/10
Android - 9/10
Buu - 4/10
(DBZ as a whole 8/10)
Space - 3/10
Baby - 1/10
Super 17 - 1/10
Dragons - 2/10
(DBGT as a whole - 2/10)
BoG + RoF - 6/10
Universe 6 - 7/10
Zamasu - 9/10
Exhibition/Recruitment - 6/10
Tournament of Power - 9/10
(DBS as a whole - 7/10)

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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by lancerman » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:29 am

Asura wrote:
lancerman wrote:It was probably the most cohesive series from beginning to end
I would not call Super cohesive, in fact I would say the exact opposite, that Super was by far the least cohesive series from beginning to end. Things happened because they looked cool. There were so many moments that made absolutely no sense that left fans trying to perform mental gymnastics to fill in the holes the writers left. SSJ Ikari? Spirit Bomb Sword? Infinite stamina? SSB Royal Blue? Power scaling that was all over the place? Jiren's wish? Just to name a few...
Do you know what cohesive means? Nothing you described has anything to do with how the series progressed from beginning to end.

Super's last arc paid off the 12 universes teased in at the end of the first arc, paid off the UI teased in the 2nd arc, added to Freeza who was introduced in the 2nd arc, added to the U6 Saiyan story that began in the third arc, paid off the introduction of Zeno's erasing power that occured in the 4th arc, was the payoff for the tournament teased in the third arc. Basically everything in the show coalesced into the finale.

Now let's take Z. Saiyan to Freeza arc was cohesive. Then we skip 3 years and get a random Android arc that has nothing to do with the previous arc and only kinda tries to be relevant by name dropping the Red Ribbon Army by referencing some mad scientist we never heard of. Then the final arc has nothing to do with the rest of the show.

The only two arcs that do that in Dragon Ball are the King Piccolo arc and the 23rd Tournament arc.

Also most of your points are nitpicks at best. Did you have an issue with Vegeto making an energy sword out of nowehere in Z? SSJ Royal Blue is too much but SSJ grades 1 and 2, SSJ2, and SSJ3 are okay? Super Saiyan Royal Blue is basically Blue 2. Power scaling I'll grant you, but it was done for a reason. And Jiren's wish is just completely irrelevant.

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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by Bullza » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:42 am

Well coincidentally now that the series is over, I made a new poll on the main page of the Dragon Ball wiki asking people to give it between 1 and 5 stars basically.

And so far from 62 votes a total of 71% of those votes have given it 5/5. It's an insignificant number right now but usually it gets a good number of votes.

The consensus I've seen is that, it was really down in the slumps by the Resurrection F saga. It picked up somewhat with the Universe 6 saga. The Future Trunks saga saved the series and really helped to turn public opinion around and the Universe Survival is the most popular of them all.

After a shaky start for that first half a year it got better and better until the end to the point it is now seen as being vastly better.

I also paid attention to the Myanimelist user score since it started it fell down to around 7.2 by the Resurrection F saga and has over time actually increased (which is very uncommon) to a respectable 7.7 by the series end.

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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by Analytical Delusion » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:12 am

Analytical Delusion wrote:The Future Trunks/Zamasu stuff was the best standalone arc, though my issue is you can remove it from the plot, and nothing is affected in terms of the whole story. Still, I think it was written pretty well.
Actually, on second thought, I think it has some value:

• World-building (U10) gives a third universe we've seen when the ToP starts (4 with U9 from the exhibition)
• More wishes from Super DBs really show how powerful they are (actual canon immortality, and taking Goku's body)
• Zamasu falls because he's disappointed with mortals, similarly to Zeno wanting to delete universes with low mortal levels
• Goku and Vegeta using the potara (plus the exposition on their rules) set the stage for Kefla

Most importantly though, Zeno blowing up all of the multiverse gave a clear indication of the stakes. At the end of 131, it's stated that if someone made a selfish wish, they would've destroyed all of the universes in this timeline too. Since it happened in the previous arc, we know that he isn't fooling around. This is a huge, huge deal (every other arc in the series had a happy/decent ending).

It isn't as closely linked as the other sagas, but I think it adds a bit (plus it closes Future Trunks's character arc from DBZ, and provides some development to Kid Trunks).

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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by Asura » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:23 am

lancerman wrote:
Asura wrote:
lancerman wrote:It was probably the most cohesive series from beginning to end
I would not call Super cohesive, in fact I would say the exact opposite, that Super was by far the least cohesive series from beginning to end. Things happened because they looked cool. There were so many moments that made absolutely no sense that left fans trying to perform mental gymnastics to fill in the holes the writers left. SSJ Ikari? Spirit Bomb Sword? Infinite stamina? SSB Royal Blue? Power scaling that was all over the place? Jiren's wish? Just to name a few...
Do you know what cohesive means? Nothing you described has anything to do with how the series progressed from beginning to end.

Super's last arc paid off the 12 universes teased in at the end of the first arc, paid off the UI teased in the 2nd arc, added to Freeza who was introduced in the 2nd arc, added to the U6 Saiyan story that began in the third arc, paid off the introduction of Zeno's erasing power that occured in the 4th arc, was the payoff for the tournament teased in the third arc. Basically everything in the show coalesced into the finale.

Now let's take Z. Saiyan to Freeza arc was cohesive. Then we skip 3 years and get a random Android arc that has nothing to do with the previous arc and only kinda tries to be relevant by name dropping the Red Ribbon Army by referencing some mad scientist we never heard of. Then the final arc has nothing to do with the rest of the show.

The only two arcs that do that in Dragon Ball are the King Piccolo arc and the 23rd Tournament arc.

Also most of your points are nitpicks at best. Did you have an issue with Vegeto making an energy sword out of nowehere in Z? SSJ Royal Blue is too much but SSJ grades 1 and 2, SSJ2, and SSJ3 are okay? Super Saiyan Royal Blue is basically Blue 2. Power scaling I'll grant you, but it was done for a reason. And Jiren's wish is just completely irrelevant.
Cohesion is how everything comes together to form one whole product. I'm saying that no, it's not cohesive because it doesn't follow any kind of consistent logic. Nothing comes together, the arcs feel like their own separate entities that just abruptly end and begin with filler in between (end of the Future Trunks arc and the episodes after are a GREAT example of this), the arcs don't lead into each other like they did in Z. Things happen because they look cool, UI is probably the only thing I can point to and say there was some sort of foreshadowing or build up.

How on earth can you even compare Vegetto's energy sword to Trunks' spirit bomb sword? One is literally just energy in the shape of a sword (like Black), the other is a completely nonsensical Spirit Bomb which comes out of nowhere that Trunks doesn't even know how to do. Royal Blue doesn't even compare to the SSJ forms. It just pops up out of nowhere, no real explanation or foreshadowing given, and he stops using it after the tournament is over. Every SSJ form (with the exception of 3) had some sort of foreshadowing, some sort of build up, some sort of part in the story that hinted at the transformation. Royal Blue doesn't have that, it just randomly happens after a completely nonsensical scene in which Vegeta regains his stamina after getting bodied by Jiren and not even being able to get up. Very obviously just a fanservice form, given they completely forgot about it in the last episode. Just like they forgot about Jiren's wish, which is definitely not "irrelevant". An antagonist's motivation is anything but irrelevant.

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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by lancerman » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:34 am

Asura wrote:
lancerman wrote:
Asura wrote:
I would not call Super cohesive, in fact I would say the exact opposite, that Super was by far the least cohesive series from beginning to end. Things happened because they looked cool. There were so many moments that made absolutely no sense that left fans trying to perform mental gymnastics to fill in the holes the writers left. SSJ Ikari? Spirit Bomb Sword? Infinite stamina? SSB Royal Blue? Power scaling that was all over the place? Jiren's wish? Just to name a few...
Do you know what cohesive means? Nothing you described has anything to do with how the series progressed from beginning to end.

Super's last arc paid off the 12 universes teased in at the end of the first arc, paid off the UI teased in the 2nd arc, added to Freeza who was introduced in the 2nd arc, added to the U6 Saiyan story that began in the third arc, paid off the introduction of Zeno's erasing power that occured in the 4th arc, was the payoff for the tournament teased in the third arc. Basically everything in the show coalesced into the finale.

Now let's take Z. Saiyan to Freeza arc was cohesive. Then we skip 3 years and get a random Android arc that has nothing to do with the previous arc and only kinda tries to be relevant by name dropping the Red Ribbon Army by referencing some mad scientist we never heard of. Then the final arc has nothing to do with the rest of the show.

The only two arcs that do that in Dragon Ball are the King Piccolo arc and the 23rd Tournament arc.

Also most of your points are nitpicks at best. Did you have an issue with Vegeto making an energy sword out of nowehere in Z? SSJ Royal Blue is too much but SSJ grades 1 and 2, SSJ2, and SSJ3 are okay? Super Saiyan Royal Blue is basically Blue 2. Power scaling I'll grant you, but it was done for a reason. And Jiren's wish is just completely irrelevant.
Cohesion is how everything comes together to form one whole product. I'm saying that no, it's not cohesive because it doesn't follow any kind of consistent logic. Nothing comes together, the arcs feel like their own separate entities that just abruptly end and begin with filler in between (end of the Future Trunks arc and the episodes after are a GREAT example of this), the arcs don't lead into each other like they did in Z. Things happen because they look cool, UI is probably the only thing I can point to and say there was some sort of foreshadowing or build up.

How on earth can you even compare Vegetto's energy sword to Trunks' spirit bomb sword? One is literally just energy in the shape of a sword (like Black), the other is a completely nonsensical Spirit Bomb which comes out of nowhere that Trunks doesn't even know how to do. Royal Blue doesn't even compare to the SSJ forms. It just pops up out of nowhere, no real explanation or foreshadowing given, and he stops using it after the tournament is over. Every SSJ form (with the exception of 3) had some sort of foreshadowing, some sort of build up, some sort of part in the story that hinted at the transformation. Royal Blue doesn't have that, it just randomly happens after a completely nonsensical scene in which Vegeta regains his stamina after getting bodied by Jiren and not even being able to get up. Very obviously just a fanservice form, given they completely forgot about it in the last episode. Just like they forgot about Jiren's wish, which is definitely not "irrelevant". An antagonist's motivation is anything but irrelevant.
Exactly two arcs in Z led into each other. Everything else needed a time skip.

Put it this way, when Super started it's pretty obvious the entire thing built to the Tournament of Power. There's about a 0% chance Toriyama had a thought about Cell or Boo when he was writing the Saiyan arc. That's called cohesion.

And again they didn't forget about Jiren's wish, it just wasn't important. He lost. And even if he won we just found out it wouldn't matter because Zeno was going to erase everything anyways. It quite literally was irrelevant. It's not the big deal your making it out to be.

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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by Shaqazooloo » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:14 am

Just like GT, it's trash and people saying otherwise are mistaking what they enjoy for something of quality.

I like Dragon Ball GT almost as much as I like Z but its trash and we all know it. People should accept Super is trash and move on. Super lacks consistency, a solid narrative, has bad writing, bad pacing and suffers from horrible animation at various points throughout the shows runtime.

People can like Dragon Ball Super, i'm not saying thats a bad thing, but I don't think you can call it a good or even decent show. It's trash on the levels of GT.
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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by sintzu » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:20 am

To start I'll go over what I don't like then move on to what I do. The first issue I have is the writing, there are a lot of inconsistancies such as character personalities and things outright making no sense like Trunks' rage form. Another issue with writing is the arcs' structures, when you look at the Black arc for example, everyone's just doing the same thing by coming and going from one timeline to the other. There are so many other things they could've done to get the most out of that arc. One thing which would've improved the TOP would've been introducing some U10 to help fight him. My second issue is the production but thankfully that improved over time so I expect it'll be on point once it returns. Third would be the transformation, we got 7 or so new forms in a very short period of time which was overkill so hopefully they focus more on the characters themselved rather than the forms. My next issue is them wasting characters. Gohan, Piccolo, Hit & Frost are a small number of characters they could've done so much with but instead pushed them to the side, something I hope doesn't happen again. My final issue is the lack of universe development as a lot of the characters are just copies of each other. Honorable mention : the movie retellings.

In terms of what I liked I'll start with the "villains", Beerus, Hit, Black and Jiren (yes, Jiren) have all been really well written characters that truly justify DB's return. Champa, Vados and Zeno are also really great additions to the cast. Next would be Vegeta, as my favorite character I couldn't be happier with how well he was handled here, from him standing up to Beerus in BOG, Forcing Freeza down to his knees in RF to taking down a destroyer level fighter in the TOP. I also loved his interactions with his family and Cabba, he's come a very long way since his Cell arc days. Next on my favorites list would be UI, it's such an amazing form, both it and Omen so hopefully we get more of it in the future. The fights were also a highlight, although some weren't that good, the important ones were amazing, especially Goku's with Jiren which is my all time favorite anime fight. The introduction of Beerus is probably the best thing modern DB has going for it as it opened the door to the other universes which may not be perfect now but I think we'll get a lot of future developments with them. The final thing I want to talk about is the tournament. The characters may not have been that well written and some of the fights were boring but it's still amazing to see them pull off an 80 fighter battle royal like that as most of us thought the majority would be no name/no design baclground characters but instead everyone got a name/design and fights. Honorable mention : Whis' stick. It can turn back time, it can bring people back to life, people can train in it. It's truly the gift that keeps giving.

I think everyone involved did a good (not perfect) job in bringing DB back so the future looks really bright for the franchise, especially with Toriyama still wanting to do more. I don't want to use a numbering rating as it can be very misunderstood so I'll just end things with saying I really enjoyed Super despite its shortcomings.
Shaqazooloo wrote:I don't think you can call it a good or even decent show. It's trash.
Any show, even the best of them can be looked at as trash if that's what you want to see.
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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by kemuri07 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:25 am

sintzu wrote:
Shaqazooloo wrote:I don't think you can call it a good or even decent show. It's trash.
Any show, even the best of them can be looked at as trash if that's what you want to see.
What does that even mean? That it's my fault that I found many aspects of Super disappointing? It's my fault That I genuinely believed continually dropped the ball when it came to character development, more often opting for fan service? If someone found Super trash, it's on the show for being a significantly flawed mess not the audience.

Obviously a person's tolerance for Super's bullshit will vary.

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sintzu
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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by sintzu » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:04 am

kemuri07 wrote:If someone found Super trash, it's on the show for being a significantly flawed mess not the audience.
Saying Super or anything is trash implies it didn't have anything good which is false in Super's case. Super is a very flawed show like I wrote but it also has good things it brought to the franchise so saying it's outright trash is very unfair.
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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:07 am

To be honest, I thought it was okay.

It had to adapt the Beerus and Resurrection arcs first, which I can understand, but that sort of spoilt things a bit for me since I'd seen those films already.

It got into its rhythm with the Universe 6, Zamasu and Tournament of Power arcs. There we saw a whole new range of rivals/enemies, from outside the universe: alternate Saiyans, a mad god/angel, Zeno the King of All, and a host of new fighters from other universes (some awesome, some we may never see again). It also gave a decent spotlight to the supporting characters: Bulma, Krillin, 17 and Freeza were standouts.

There are some things that I would have done differently, but on the whole I think the series has been satisfactory for me.
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Re: Now that Super is finished, what is the overall consensus of the series?

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:08 am

sintzu wrote:
kemuri07 wrote:If someone found Super trash, it's on the show for being a significantly flawed mess not the audience.
Saying Super or anything is trash implies it didn't have anything good which is false in Super's case. Super is a very flawed show like I wrote but it also has good things it brought to the franchise so saying it's outright trash is very unfair.
Pretty trash feels like an accurate description, there's no doubt a lot of really good animation was made for it but narratively its everything broken about the series dialed up to 11. We really did not need it imo.
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