Which did it better, GT or Super?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by FoolsGil » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:59 am

prince212 wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I'm not going to say GT wasn't bad. But after seeing Super, I'm willing to give GT another watch.
You’ve got guts .
I was able to follow super week after week since u6 tournament.
I wasn’t able to watch more than 4 episodes of gt.
Yeah I hear you...but Super showed me that things can always be worst. So, that's why I'm going to give GT another shot. In my honest opinion, I think everyone who hasn't seen GT in the last 5 years should go through it while Super is still fresh in their minds.
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:25 am

What this thread needs is a list of GT and Super's highs/lows (as objectively as possible even though that may be impossible).
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Marugoto » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:26 am

I try to come up with things I like about Super but all I can think of is that one time where an evil version of the main character showed up. That's a pretty overused cliche to begin with, and something the third Dragon Ball Z movie pulled off way better in my opinion. With the Goku Black arc I can't even recall what happened in what order. All I remember is that they time traveled back and forth way to many times, they tried way too hard to make Black's identity some grand mystery, and the future was wiped out in the end anyway so whatever. The rest of Super is just uninspired, ugly drawn characters beating each other up and too many slice of life episodes.

I don't really hold GT in the highest regard but compared to Super I can't help but admire it. It feels so fresh by comparison. The characters aren't stuck in their Boo era personas! There's some actual music. It didn't overstay its welcome.

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Sora Saiyan » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:52 am

I prefer Super. Now I’m not saying Super is good, as I really don’t think it is, alls I’m saying is that I prefer it over GT.

One thing I like about Super is that all the arcs actually have a lore expansion link.
BOG - shows us Beerus and Whis, tells us of the new universes and gives us SSJG.
RoF - Gives us the return of Freeza, and shows us a bit more of Beerus’ planet, also shows us what happens once god ki is mastered and tells us about UI.
Uni 6 - Expands upon the gods, angels, and we’re told more about the universes, we get a tournament to show us the diversity and similarities in Uni 7’s twin universe (maybe they’d be basically the same if Buu and other events didn’t wipe out so many planets). Later we’re introduced to Zeno, once again expanding the lore.
Ft Trunks - Now once again the lore is expanded a bit more, with the introduction of the time rings and such, we see how the Kaioshins role plays out, and we find out about their ties with the GoD. We see how dangerous it can be when a god turns bad, as they have so much knowledge over the multiverse. We see the Grand Priest. We find out that Goku attaining the realm of the gods ending up leading to something bad, as a god became fixated on him and ended up stealing his body. We find out a little more about the potara, and we see just how dangerous Zeno is.
ToP - Well this shows us all the other Universes, we find out how truly dangerous it is having somebody like Zeno around, we find out that the Universes mortal levels are ranked. Freeza gets a return and his power from RoF now serves a purpose, he also seems to have his character come full circle (but it’s too early to tell). We are finally shown UI.

This may seem like I’m praising Super, but I’m really not, the consistency annoys the hell out of me! The writing at times is not done well at all, and the ToP is given to us way too early.

Overall I’d give the Super anime a 5/10, and GT a 3/10.

Super is just bang average to me, there’s some good and outright amazing moments, but there are just too many moments that make me scratch my head, and get genuinely annoyed. Luckily the good elevated it from bad to average. The manga fixes some of these issues but then is worse in some other areas, luckily the fixes in scaling (majority of the time), and less asspull power ups elevate it to a 6/10 for me.

The ToP, power scaling and the filler in the anime knock it down, even though at times we’re given cool moments because of it, I just can’t switch my brain off. Not to mention the ToP just took way too long, and I cannot ignore the stamina recovery in 5-10 seconds in universe time.

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Marlowe89 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:57 am

At the moment I'd rather save the full comparison for a later time, but for me, Super's highs are among some of my favorite moments of all-time in the franchise (outstripping even many of my favorite moments in Z) while its lows aren't really much lower than GT's. And ultimately, despite the rather massive problems I've had with it, it still feels like Dragon Ball at its core. I'm not going to pretend to hold it to a higher standard than any of the previous Toriyama-involved subseries; it succeeded at what it set out to do and was more or less in line with what I'd expect.

My vote would have to go to Super.

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Amir » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:03 am

GT failed with the execution for it's ideas, they made a joke out of Cell and Frieza, the Super 17 arc really sucked, the fights were underwhelming, there was only 2 good fights to me, which was Goku vs that assasin guy I forgot his name, and Goku vs Baby. The other characters got wasted completely and were unimpressive - in Super it was also a Goku show, but the other characters at least got more screen time and were more useful, they managed to accomplish things, especially in the last 2 arcs. The lore In Super is much more expanded upon, the story and the direction they took with other universes and the new characters was far better to me, the animation and fight scenes are infinitely better.

GT was prerry boring to me other than the baby arc and the last couple of episodes, Super was way more enjoyable to me.
I actually hate GT.

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by SuperCyan2 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:46 am

PFM18 wrote:How can you say Transformation of the week when Goku and Vegeta's best form was the same for 100+ episodes. They went 3 arcs without gaining a new transformation at all. I have no idea how you come to this conclusion. They each got a transformation in the last arc but it was only fitting. GT did almost nothing right and it gives a bad name to the rest of the franchise
In Super they all pretty much got a new transformation every now and then which made the previous one redundant while in Z we only had three at most with some power-ups. Super Saiyan God was supposedly the best transformation until the next came around and then when Super Saiyan Blue was the best then came UI and MUI.. Toriyama/TOEI overdid it and most of these transformations will become completely irrelevant in future series/movies of Dragon Ball.
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by thegamer23 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:51 am

There's no match.

Super started slow, but from the Champa arc onwards it was a constant uprising in quality, animation, music & fights.

Goku Black/Future Trunks arc alone is better than the entire GT.

While very slow-paced in the initial phase, those two Arcs (Black & Tournament of Power) delivered iconic scenes, themes, & fight sequences, that stand-outs in the Dragon Ball Franchise.

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Dbzk1999 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:11 am

SuperCyan2 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:How can you say Transformation of the week when Goku and Vegeta's best form was the same for 100+ episodes. They went 3 arcs without gaining a new transformation at all. I have no idea how you come to this conclusion. They each got a transformation in the last arc but it was only fitting. GT did almost nothing right and it gives a bad name to the rest of the franchise
In Super they all pretty much got a new transformation every now and then which made the previous one redundant while in Z we only had three at most with some power-ups. Super Saiyan God was supposedly the best transformation until the next came around and then when Super Saiyan Blue was the best then came UI and MUI.. Toriyama/TOEI overdid it and most of these transformations will become completely irrelevant in future series/movies of Dragon Ball.
Z got a new transformation every arc, so I don’t think saying it only had “3 at most” is being honest when there was only about 3 arcs in the series (4 if counting vegeta as separate from freeza). What’s the difference from what you said I’m the bolded and this line

“Super saiyan was supposedly the best transformation until the next came around and then when super saiyan 2 was the best then came SSJ3. Toriyama/Toei overdid it and most of these transformations will become completely ire learn in future series/movies of dragon ball.”

Seriously, what’s the difference?
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by SuperCyan2 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:23 am

Dbzk1999 wrote:Z got a new transformation every arc, so I don’t think saying it only had “3 at most” is being honest when there was only about 3 arcs in the series (4 if counting vegeta as separate from freeza). What’s the difference from what you said I’m the bolded and this line

“Super saiyan was supposedly the best transformation until the next came around and then when super saiyan 2 was the best then came SSJ3. Toriyama/Toei overdid it and most of these transformations will become completely ire learn in future series/movies of dragon ball.”

Seriously, what’s the difference?
Dragon Ball Z
- Saiyan arc
- Freeza arc
- Cell arc
- Majin Boo arc

Why you'd think the "Vegeta" arc would be the same as the Freeza arc is beyond me.

Dragon Ball Super
- Battle of Gods arc
- Resurrection F arc
- Universe Tournament arc
- Future Trunks arc
- Tournament of Power arc

In Z, there were three (SSJ1, SSJ2, SSJ3) while in Super we had Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Rosé, Super Saiyan Rage, Super Saiyan Evolution (really?), Ultra Instinct, Mastered Ultra Instinct and probably more that I'm not remembering. It's quite evident that Super went overboard with transformations.
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by RedHeat » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:36 am

SuperCyan2 wrote:
Dbzk1999 wrote:Z got a new transformation every arc, so I don’t think saying it only had “3 at most” is being honest when there was only about 3 arcs in the series (4 if counting vegeta as separate from freeza). What’s the difference from what you said I’m the bolded and this line

“Super saiyan was supposedly the best transformation until the next came around and then when super Saiyan 2 was the best then came SSJ3. Toriyama/Toei overdid it and most of these transformations will become completely ire learn in future series/movies of dragon ball.”

Seriously, what’s the difference?
Dragon Ball Z
- Saiyan arc
- Freeza arc
- Cell arc
- Majin Boo arc

Why you'd think the "Vegeta" arc would be the same as the Freeza arc is beyond me.

Dragon Ball Super
- Battle of Gods arc
- Resurrection F arc
- Universe Tournament arc
- Future Trunks arc
- Tournament of Power arc

In Z, there were three (SSJ1, SSJ2, SSJ3) while in Super we had Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Rosé, Super Saiyan Rage, Super Saiyan Evolution (really?), Ultra Instinct, Mastered Ultra Instinct and probably more that I'm not remembering. It's quite evident that Super went overboard with transformations.
Super Saiyan Rose isn't a new transformation and Ultra Instinct barely qualifies as one. You might as well through in Quake of Fury in as well if you wanna say Rage is a new form.
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Dbzk1999 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:45 am

SuperCyan2 wrote:
Dbzk1999 wrote:Z got a new transformation every arc, so I don’t think saying it only had “3 at most” is being honest when there was only about 3 arcs in the series (4 if counting vegeta as separate from freeza). What’s the difference from what you said I’m the bolded and this line

“Super saiyan was supposedly the best transformation until the next came around and then when super saiyan 2 was the best then came SSJ3. Toriyama/Toei overdid it and most of these transformations will become completely ire learn in future series/movies of dragon ball.”

Seriously, what’s the difference?
Dragon Ball Z
- Saiyan arc
- Freeza arc
- Cell arc
- Majin Boo arc

Why you'd think the "Vegeta" arc would be the same as the Freeza arc is beyond me.

Dragon Ball Super
- Battle of Gods arc
- Resurrection F arc
- Universe Tournament arc
- Future Trunks arc
- Tournament of Power arc

In Z, there were three (SSJ1, SSJ2, SSJ3) while in Super we had Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Rosé, Super Saiyan Rage, Super Saiyan Evolution (really?), Ultra Instinct, Mastered Ultra Instinct and probably more that I'm not remembering. It's quite evident that Super went overboard with transformations.
I don’t consider saiyan arc to be separate, but I know others that do because of just how fluidly the one arc transitions into the other that they consider Namek and Saiyan to be one arc. Don’t ask me why.

If you’re considering things like Rage and Evolution for super, then there’s more than 3 in Z.

With that, Z has SSJ, SSJ Grade 2 and 3, SSJ Grade 4 (or Full Power SSJ, only reason I’m including this is because you’re separating Ultra Instinct), SSJ2, and SSJ3.

That’s 6 vs 7.

Now, if you take out things that are simply variations of the forms and not “next stages” (like Evolution, Grade 2 and 3, Rose, etc.) then you end up with 3 vs 3 transformations for Z and Super, using what you listed so far
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Marlowe89 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:04 pm

SuperCyan2 wrote: In Z, there were three (SSJ1, SSJ2, SSJ3) while in Super we had Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Rosé, Super Saiyan Rage, Super Saiyan Evolution (really?), Ultra Instinct, Mastered Ultra Instinct and probably more that I'm not remembering. It's quite evident that Super went overboard with transformations.
Some of those forms are exclusive to specific characters and no more of a transformation than the Grades in Z or other forms exclusive to the older movies. For Goku in particular, there was Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, and Ultra Instinct. That's it -- three new "proper" transformations just like the preceding series.

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by FrostByte » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:05 pm

Super>>>>>>>>>GT.

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by TheMikado » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:09 pm

Dbzk1999 wrote:
SuperCyan2 wrote:
Dbzk1999 wrote:Z got a new transformation every arc, so I don’t think saying it only had “3 at most” is being honest when there was only about 3 arcs in the series (4 if counting vegeta as separate from freeza). What’s the difference from what you said I’m the bolded and this line

“Super saiyan was supposedly the best transformation until the next came around and then when super saiyan 2 was the best then came SSJ3. Toriyama/Toei overdid it and most of these transformations will become completely ire learn in future series/movies of dragon ball.”

Seriously, what’s the difference?
Dragon Ball Z
- Saiyan arc
- Freeza arc
- Cell arc
- Majin Boo arc

Why you'd think the "Vegeta" arc would be the same as the Freeza arc is beyond me.

Dragon Ball Super
- Battle of Gods arc
- Resurrection F arc
- Universe Tournament arc
- Future Trunks arc
- Tournament of Power arc

In Z, there were three (SSJ1, SSJ2, SSJ3) while in Super we had Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Rosé, Super Saiyan Rage, Super Saiyan Evolution (really?), Ultra Instinct, Mastered Ultra Instinct and probably more that I'm not remembering. It's quite evident that Super went overboard with transformations.
I don’t consider saiyan arc to be separate, but I know others that do because of just how fluidly the one arc transitions into the other that they consider Namek and Saiyan to be one arc. Don’t ask me why.

If you’re considering things like Rage and Evolution for super, then there’s more than 3 in Z.

With that, Z has SSJ, SSJ Grade 2 and 3, SSJ Grade 4 (or Full Power SSJ, only reason I’m including this is because you’re separating Ultra Instinct), SSJ2, and SSJ3.

That’s 6 vs 7.

Now, if you take out things that are simply variations of the forms and not “next stages” (like Evolution, Grade 2 and 3, Rose, etc.) then you end up with 3 vs 3 transformations for Z and Super, using what you listed so far
No the problem is that those transformations are now cumulative.

For instance in DB we got Gokus 1 transformation, Ape from. In Z we get kaioken and SSJ forms. Now we have all those plus all the new ones in Super. So now the series has become all about transformations. So by the end of Super technically has there are like at least 13-14 different transformations.

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Captain Strawberry » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:09 pm

I think Super was better consistently and had better character moments (with introductions like Beerus and all). But I do think GT does have it's own charm to it especially towards the end.

I do think Super had better story progression, one arc you can see does lead to another with more stories to tell.

Super added a lot more lore and the antagonists in GT didn't leave as much as an impression with Goku being too strong.

Super also made better use of characters like in GT, Uub sort of became shafted.
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by lancerman » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:28 pm

Dbzk1999 wrote:
SuperCyan2 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:How can you say Transformation of the week when Goku and Vegeta's best form was the same for 100+ episodes. They went 3 arcs without gaining a new transformation at all. I have no idea how you come to this conclusion. They each got a transformation in the last arc but it was only fitting. GT did almost nothing right and it gives a bad name to the rest of the franchise
In Super they all pretty much got a new transformation every now and then which made the previous one redundant while in Z we only had three at most with some power-ups. Super Saiyan God was supposedly the best transformation until the next came around and then when Super Saiyan Blue was the best then came UI and MUI.. Toriyama/TOEI overdid it and most of these transformations will become completely irrelevant in future series/movies of Dragon Ball.
Z got a new transformation every arc, so I don’t think saying it only had “3 at most” is being honest when there was only about 3 arcs in the series (4 if counting vegeta as separate from freeza). What’s the difference from what you said I’m the bolded and this line

“Super saiyan was supposedly the best transformation until the next came around and then when super saiyan 2 was the best then came SSJ3. Toriyama/Toei overdid it and most of these transformations will become completely ire learn in future series/movies of dragon ball.”

Seriously, what’s the difference?
It’s not even really true to say it had 3 at most.

It had Super Saiyan, the two Super Saiyan grades in the Cell arc, Super Saiyan 2 which wasn’t even named until the next arc, SSJ 3, and Gohan’s Ultimare transformation. That’s 5 and that’s assuming you don’t count Goku’s mastered Super Saiyan.

Super had SSJG, SSJB, SSJR (which is basically Super Saiyan Blue being done by a god, so I don’t know if it should count), Trunk’s transformation, Super Saiyan Limit Breaker (or Royal Blue), and UI. So 6.

So it’s 6 vs 5 and one series didn’t even have transformative for a quarter of its arcs.

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by DbzRyan24 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:20 pm

I didn’t mind GT, however as others have mentioned it just felt like the Goku show. I love Goku but still. I thought the concept of the shadow dragons was great and I think SSJ4 is the most original design bar the different coloured pants! Super edges it for me. I think the characters are better and I felt like I enjoyed it more. GT 6.5/10 super 8/10 :)

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by GamerSkull » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:25 pm

I think GT was better... but I seem to be in the minority on that. :lol:
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by PFM18 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:37 pm

SuperCyan2 wrote:
Dbzk1999 wrote:Z got a new transformation every arc, so I don’t think saying it only had “3 at most” is being honest when there was only about 3 arcs in the series (4 if counting vegeta as separate from freeza). What’s the difference from what you said I’m the bolded and this line

“Super saiyan was supposedly the best transformation until the next came around and then when super saiyan 2 was the best then came SSJ3. Toriyama/Toei overdid it and most of these transformations will become completely ire learn in future series/movies of dragon ball.”

Seriously, what’s the difference?
Dragon Ball Z
- Saiyan arc
- Freeza arc
- Cell arc
- Majin Boo arc

Why you'd think the "Vegeta" arc would be the same as the Freeza arc is beyond me.

Dragon Ball Super
- Battle of Gods arc
- Resurrection F arc
- Universe Tournament arc
- Future Trunks arc
- Tournament of Power arc

In Z, there were three (SSJ1, SSJ2, SSJ3) while in Super we had Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Rosé, Super Saiyan Rage, Super Saiyan Evolution (really?), Ultra Instinct, Mastered Ultra Instinct and probably more that I'm not remembering. It's quite evident that Super went overboard with transformations.
If anything that is a positive because several characters got their own unique transformations. Instead of everybody having the same old same old forms each character got something unique. But Goku and vegeta kept the same transformation FOR ALMOST THE ENTIRE SERIES. Goku Black and future trunks had uniwue forms and then Goku and Vegeta FINALLY got new forms at thw very end of the series.
But ROF U6 and Goku Black arc yielded the same transformation for the main cast of characters. 3 straight arcs with the same form?? That never happened in z. That is far fewer than in Z and if anything Z had too many transformations. It would be the ewuibalrnt of in the Buu arc Goku's best form was still normal suoer saiyan. And if you count Grade 2 3 4 as seperate transformations then it has the same amount of tranaformations as super if you count the forms outside of the main cast.

This is really just a ridiculous criticism.
GamerSkull wrote:I think GT was better... but I seem to be in the minority on that. :lol:
So to be clear, you do the prefer the series in which Goku was the only relevant character and the rest of the cast did absolutely nothing with no new characters being introduced to the cast?(like how Super introduced Beerus and Whis)

I can't help but be perplexed by this viewpoint.

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