Jiren's Wish

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Jiren's Wish

Post by Asura » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:01 am

It's absolutely laughable at this point how bad Super's writing is. I can't believe they literally forgot about the antagonist's motivation for wanting to win the tournament. What was his wish? It was never revealed! It's kept a hush hush secret in both the manga and the anime, yet the anime is now finished and we have no idea what his wish would have been. Was it to resurrect his family and his master? When 17 seems to suggest that Jiren wants to wish to make things like they were again, Jiren just says "Ridiculous" with a completely straight face, and then goes on to talk about the whole "Strength is absolute" deal. So given his reaction it seems to me that wasn't his wish?

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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by lancerman » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:10 am

He lost so it doesn't matter. The fact that whatever it was intrigues you so much to me is justification for not revealing it. Jiren was a mysterious dude, I'd rather have some things remain a mystery.

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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:14 am

Hes alive, and he will still be very relavent as a character. So we might now fown the line once the anime inevitably returns

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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by Asura » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:17 am

lancerman wrote:He lost so it doesn't matter. The fact that whatever it was intrigues you so much to me is justification for not revealing it.
Why does it not matter just because he lost? It was set up as a plot point, it's the antagonist's reason for wanting to win (aside from not wanting to be erased), and how does keeping a motivation a mystery add anything to the story? So because the show brings up a plot point and I want to know more about it, that makes it justified when they completely forget about it and never bring it up again?
Kenneth La Torre wrote:Hes alive, and he will still be very relavent as a character. So we might now fown the line once the anime inevitably returns
What's the point? The tournament is already over.

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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:21 am

Asura wrote:
lancerman wrote:He lost so it doesn't matter. The fact that whatever it was intrigues you so much to me is justification for not revealing it.
Why does it not matter just because he lost? It was set up as a plot point, it's the antagonist's reason for wanting to win (aside from not wanting to be erased), and how does keeping a motivation a mystery add anything to the story? So because the show brings up a plot point and I want to know more about it, that makes it justified when they completely forget about it and never bring it up again?
Kenneth La Torre wrote:Hes alive, and he will still be very relavent as a character. So we might now fown the line once the anime inevitably returns
What's the point? The tournament is already over.
Tournament is over, but jirens story will vontinue fown the franchise, so expect his wish to be a key point some day

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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:24 am

Asura wrote:
lancerman wrote:He lost so it doesn't matter. The fact that whatever it was intrigues you so much to me is justification for not revealing it.
Why does it not matter just because he lost? It was set up as a plot point, it's the antagonist's reason for wanting to win (aside from not wanting to be erased), and how does keeping a motivation a mystery add anything to the story? So because the show brings up a plot point and I want to know more about it, that makes it justified when they completely forget about it and never bring it up again?
Kenneth La Torre wrote:Hes alive, and he will still be very relavent as a character. So we might now fown the line once the anime inevitably returns
What's the point? The tournament is already over.
Especially when all they needed to do was have Jiren as he's being erased be like "I can't believe I was selfish enough to want to win do x reason" or have him tell Toppo his wish as a symbol of their new bond or whatever.
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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by lancerman » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:21 am

Asura wrote:
lancerman wrote:He lost so it doesn't matter. The fact that whatever it was intrigues you so much to me is justification for not revealing it.
Why does it not matter just because he lost? It was set up as a plot point, it's the antagonist's reason for wanting to win (aside from not wanting to be erased), and how does keeping a motivation a mystery add anything to the story? So because the show brings up a plot point and I want to know more about it, that makes it justified when they completely forget about it and never bring it up again?
Kenneth La Torre wrote:Hes alive, and he will still be very relavent as a character. So we might now fown the line once the anime inevitably returns
What's the point? The tournament is already over.
Because not everything needs to be explained if it's not integral to the plot at the end. Jiren was a mysterious character and it's something that can be left for later if at all. Shows do this all the time. It's not bad writing. It's leaving a plot open.

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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by lancerman » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:21 am

GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Asura wrote:
lancerman wrote:He lost so it doesn't matter. The fact that whatever it was intrigues you so much to me is justification for not revealing it.
Why does it not matter just because he lost? It was set up as a plot point, it's the antagonist's reason for wanting to win (aside from not wanting to be erased), and how does keeping a motivation a mystery add anything to the story? So because the show brings up a plot point and I want to know more about it, that makes it justified when they completely forget about it and never bring it up again?
Kenneth La Torre wrote:Hes alive, and he will still be very relavent as a character. So we might now fown the line once the anime inevitably returns
What's the point? The tournament is already over.
Especially when all they needed to do was have Jiren as he's being erased be like "I can't believe I was selfish enough to want to win do x reason" or have him tell Toppo his wish as a symbol of their new bond or whatever.
And that wouldn't have added anything to the show.

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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by MegaBossMan » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:44 am

It's... still pretty clear what Jiren's wish would have pertained. We know the focus of the wish; the actual semantics of what exactly that entailed wouldn't do anything to support his background. He was chained to his past, and wished to amend it in the hopes that he'd get a sense of moving on; how exactly he would do so contributes nothing to me as to who Jiren is. Not everything needs to be filled out and laid out in detail, because ambiguity can often carry the strongest connotation. We know why Jiren has his trauma, you can feel free to imagine what he would have done about it.
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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by prince212 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:19 am

Jiren is so happy right now about him being defeated. His wish was just to have so hair .
Toppo already order a wig at amazon.com , that’s the beginning of some trust friendship
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by Asura » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:13 am

Surprised, but not so surprised at the "make up your own idea of what he wants to wish for" sentiment in this thread so far. It kind of fits in line with Super, that the writing is so inconsistent and illogical that fans are just left to their own devices to try and explain things.

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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by JazzMazz » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:15 am

I don't why its bad writing, since we already Jiren's main motivation relates to his past. They don't need to go into the specifics for the audience about what his wish actually is when they've already practically told us what defines and motivates as character.

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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by Asura » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:44 am

JazzMazz wrote:I don't why its bad writing, since we already Jiren's main motivation relates to his past. They don't need to go into the specifics for the audience about what his wish actually is when they've already practically told us what defines and motivates as character.
When you bring up a plot point and then completely forget about it, that’s bad writing. I don’t know why that seems to be controversial. It’s pretty straight forward to me.

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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by JazzMazz » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:20 am

Asura wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:I don't why its bad writing, since we already Jiren's main motivation relates to his past. They don't need to go into the specifics for the audience about what his wish actually is when they've already practically told us what defines and motivates as character.
When you bring up a plot point and then completely forget about it, that’s bad writing. I don’t know why that seems to be controversial. It’s pretty straight forward to me.
But, it wasn't forgotten, it was a core element of Jirens character, however, its simply not an important one. That was the whole point of Jiren's character arc, to stop living in his past, get over his selfish and lonely habits, and accept friends like Toppo into his life.

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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by emperior » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:51 am

I expected his wish to be revealed but... I'm actually glad it wasn't. It perfectly fits with Jiren's development - to stop living through the past and focus on the future. By not revealing the wish, the show tells us that the wish is no longer important, neither for Jiren or for the audience.
In the end I actually really like Jiren, and I never expected his subtle character development to be so good.

As for his wish, I believe that was to bring back the people who died by his side and his family, which is quite a fitting wish for him considering how much he lived for his past.
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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:44 am

Jiren's wish was more of metaphor for his character, in regards to it being selfish. Jiren's main motivation for who he is today was because of his traumatic past and the circumstances of his wish was influenced. And by letting go of his past, and finally moving forward and realising there is more to life the solitude in strength, his wish was discharged as that was in itself tied to past he struggled to let go of. What Jiren's wish was specifically wasn't the important, it's what it represented for his character. He developed as person, understanding the meaning and significance of bonds and friendship, and because of that, Jiren's wish became pointless. And even it was revealed, it would serve no meaning at this stage.

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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by TheMikado » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:55 am

Lord Beerus wrote:Jiren's wish was more of metaphor for his character, in regards to it being selfish. Jiren's main motivation for who he is today was because of his traumatic past and the circumstances of his wish was influenced. And by letting go of his past, and finally moving forward and realising there is more to life the solitude in strength, his wish was discharged as that was in itself tied to past he struggled to let go of. What Jiren's wish was specifically wasn't the important, it's what it represented for his character. He developed as person, understanding the meaning and significance of bonds and friendship, and because of that, Jiren's wish became pointless. And even it was revealed, it would serve no meaning at this stage.
Wouldn’t it have been more impactful for Jiren to win, but having fought Goku, make that realization and wish the universes back himself. That’s better writing and character growth. He would have been he one to have the opportunity to either go back or move forward not having it forced upon him through losing.

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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:07 am

TheMikado wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Jiren's wish was more of metaphor for his character, in regards to it being selfish. Jiren's main motivation for who he is today was because of his traumatic past and the circumstances of his wish was influenced. And by letting go of his past, and finally moving forward and realising there is more to life the solitude in strength, his wish was discharged as that was in itself tied to past he struggled to let go of. What Jiren's wish was specifically wasn't the important, it's what it represented for his character. He developed as person, understanding the meaning and significance of bonds and friendship, and because of that, Jiren's wish became pointless. And even it was revealed, it would serve no meaning at this stage.
Wouldn’t it have been more impactful for Jiren to win, but having fought Goku, make that realization and wish the universes back himself. That’s better writing and character growth. He would have been he one to have the opportunity to either go back or move forward not having it forced upon him through losing.
I honestly want Universe 7 to win more than anything because they've lost every major battle in every major arc in the show up until now. And I honestly think Jiren gains character growth more from realizing that he's about to be erased because he lost a battle by sticking to his morals of there being nothing more to than solitude and strength, than he would have gained from winning the Tournament Of Power using the virtues he stands by.

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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by yaddle » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:05 am

Isn't it to be strongest?

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Re: Jiren's Wish

Post by Amir » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:12 am

How is it bad writing? You keep saying Super dropped this plot point when they didn't. They constantly reminded us it has something to do with his past trauma, it was suggested Jiren wanted to erase those past issues in one way or another, with all of his friendship and trust complex, his wish was related to his obsession with the past, but those past issues got resolved in the end, and thus his wish is no longer relevant, as it was part of his issues. Jiren got what he needed and changed for the better. I just have to disagree when you say they forgot about it.

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