Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Zagacious
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 9:04 pm

Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by Zagacious » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:09 pm

If you haven't seen episode 131 stop reading here.

[spoiler]I know this is a rather minor idea to make a whole topic about, but I keep seeing people say UI and Royal Blue forms are all gone now, and I really don't see any reason to believe that. Just because they were sparring at the end in normal SSB forms doesn't mean anything. I'm certain under combat with a strong enough enemy they will be able to transform. Sparring each other it might not happen because they wouldn't go all out knowing they are comrades after all they've been through, whether Vegeta would admit it or not, neither of them would actually go all out.[/spoiler]

User avatar
Aman
Newbie
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:41 am

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by Aman » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:17 pm

Does it really matter? UI would stomp Fairy Blue, so of course it made sense not to do it. Even then Goku cannot access it at will.

I wish they had just finished with a battle in SS, SSB was super ugly IMO.

User avatar
Zagacious
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 9:04 pm

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by Zagacious » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:19 pm

Aman wrote:Does it really matter? UI would stomp Fairy Blue, so of course it made sense not to do it. Even then Goku cannot access it at will.

I wish they had just finished with a battle in SS, SSB was super ugly IMO.
Well if it doesn't matter then why reply? I just keep seeing tons of people insisting that they can't even transform anymore, and using it to justify other weird conclusions, which is really confusing to me the sheer number of people who believe this. Them sparring in SSB at the end doesn't mean anything.

User avatar
Aman
Newbie
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:41 am

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by Aman » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:23 pm

Zagacious wrote:
Aman wrote:Does it really matter? UI would stomp Fairy Blue, so of course it made sense not to do it. Even then Goku cannot access it at will.

I wish they had just finished with a battle in SS, SSB was super ugly IMO.
Well if it doesn't matter then why reply? I just keep seeing tons of people insisting that they can't even transform anymore, and using it to justify other weird conclusions, which is really confusing to me the sheer number of people who believe this. Them sparring in SSB at the end doesn't mean anything.
Even if they accessed it during the fight, it wouldn't be a competitive fight. So it made sense for neither of them to use either form.

They could have done Fairy Blue vs SSBK20, but they probably thought the visual of SSB v SSB would be better.

User avatar
One_Instance
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:47 pm
Location: Gengoro Island

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by One_Instance » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:36 pm

Aman wrote: Even if they accessed it during the fight, it wouldn't be a competitive fight. So it made sense for neither of them to use either form.

They could have done Fairy Blue vs SSBK20, but they probably thought the visual of SSB v SSB would be better.
Pretty sure you just proved the point of this thread....


Anyways, are people really saying that Evolution is gone? I don't know why you would get that impression. It seemed pretty clear to me that the only person who couldn't show off the new abilities they gained during the TOP was Goku. I feel like Vegeta might have mentioned not being able to do SSGSSE after Goku mentioned he can't use UI, had that not been the case.

User avatar
Kaiosama
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:03 am

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by Kaiosama » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:21 pm

Vegeta would have been defeated in 1 blow easily. SSB Evolution doesn't really belong in the same conversation as UI at this point. We saw how much higher the ceiling was for Goku's limit breaking power in 130. I wouldn't be surprised to see Evolution get bodied by the villain in the upcoming movie in favor of Goku's UI. It just goes to show how inferior Vegeta will always be to Goku, that his peak potential is far outclassed by UI. It made the ending cut that much more nauseating with Toei still trying to force this noncompetitive rivalry down our throats.

User avatar
BlueBasilisk
I Live Here
Posts: 3061
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:32 pm

One_Instance wrote:Pretty sure you just proved the point of this thread....


Anyways, are people really saying that Evolution is gone? I don't know why you would get that impression. It seemed pretty clear to me that the only person who couldn't show off the new abilities they gained during the TOP was Goku. I feel like Vegeta might have mentioned not being able to do SSGSSE after Goku mentioned he can't use UI, had that not been the case.
We saw Vegeta power up into SSBE of his own volition multiple times after he got it, so I don't know why people think he suddenly can't use it now. But I also remember people saying that about Kaioken Blue for a while before he used it against Zamasu.

User avatar
Zagacious
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 9:04 pm

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by Zagacious » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:50 pm

One_Instance wrote:
Aman wrote: Even if they accessed it during the fight, it wouldn't be a competitive fight. So it made sense for neither of them to use either form.

They could have done Fairy Blue vs SSBK20, but they probably thought the visual of SSB v SSB would be better.
Pretty sure you just proved the point of this thread....


Anyways, are people really saying that Evolution is gone? I don't know why you would get that impression. It seemed pretty clear to me that the only person who couldn't show off the new abilities they gained during the TOP was Goku. I feel like Vegeta might have mentioned not being able to do SSGSSE after Goku mentioned he can't use UI, had that not been the case.
I've seen a huge number of people saying things like "Where are they going to go now with the power scaling now that Goku can't go UI anymore" or "How is Goku going to compete with Jiren now without UI", like a crazy amount of people saying that, which is why I made this topic. It'd be pretty ridiculous if they made it so Goku can just go UI anytime he wants now. It would also be overkill against Vegeta but that's kind of obvious.

I haven't seen as many people mentioning Vegeta's Royal blue but still quite a few.

lancerman
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 412
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:36 pm

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by lancerman » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:11 pm

To me Super Saiyan Blue Evolution is basically Vegeta's answer to Goku's SSJB with Kaio Ken.

UI for now should remain a desperation state that is difficult to realize.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by sintzu » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:21 pm

UI just can't be used like Ssj whenever the user wants but Vegeta's form is anyone's guess. It's most likely not from Toriyama so we probably won't see it and UI Omen again, at least not in the movie.
Kaiosama wrote:It just goes to show how inferior Vegeta will always be to Goku, that his peak potential is far outclassed by UI.

It made the ending cut that much more nauseating with Toei still trying to force this noncompetitive rivalry down our throats.
:lol:

By Toei you mean Toriyama right ?
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Vegeta_Sama
Regular
Posts: 713
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:59 pm
Location: Capsule Corporation

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:28 am

I don't mean to sound like an annoying asshole, but.... We have an officiale name, and that is Super Saiyan Blue Evolution, why do you continue to use that "Royal Blue"? Icknkw Evolution doesn't sound much better, but still, things should be called with their proper names.
My interpretation of the Dragon Ball Canon

User avatar
ChiefWamsutta
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 946
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 7:11 pm

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:33 pm

As of Ep. 131, Goku can use: SS1, SS2, SS3, SSG, SSB, SSB KKx20.

As of Ep. 131, Vegeta can use: SS1, SS2, SSB, SSBE.

Vegeta's most powerful (SSBE) is equal to Goku's most powerful (SSB KKx20).

UI Omen and UI Completed are no longer a thing.

User avatar
PFM18
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by PFM18 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:32 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:As of Ep. 131, Goku can use: SS1, SS2, SS3, SSG, SSB, SSB KKx20.

As of Ep. 131, Vegeta can use: SS1, SS2, SSB, SSBE.

Vegeta's most powerful (SSBE) is equal to Goku's most powerful (SSB KKx20).

UI Omen and UI Completed are no longer a thing.
Yeah I don't think so. I think it goes something like this
SSBE Vegeta(initial)=SSBKK20 Goku>SSBE Vegeta in 126

he was kind of implied to be on par with Goku with Kaioken before he fought Toppo and at that level he was losing and then he got extra pissed against Toppo and overtook him. And then the next scene he punches Jiren and he says "I can see how you defeated Toppo" after being confident prior to that that Toppo could defeat him.(hence the switch) My interpretation is that he didnt unlock the full power of the new form until he raged at Toppo.

User avatar
Kaiosama
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:03 am

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by Kaiosama » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:10 pm

sintzu wrote:UI just can't be used like Ssj whenever the user wants but Vegeta's form is anyone's guess. It's most likely not from Toriyama so we probably won't see it and UI Omen again, at least not in the movie.
Kaiosama wrote:It just goes to show how inferior Vegeta will always be to Goku, that his peak potential is far outclassed by UI.

It made the ending cut that much more nauseating with Toei still trying to force this noncompetitive rivalry down our throats.
:lol:

By Toei you mean Toriyama right ?
Meh.. They are pretty much the same at this point to me haha!

User avatar
MKCSTEALTH
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 812
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:50 pm

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:40 am

I get what they're doing with Ultra Instinct. If they kept it so Goku could tap into it, there'd be no realistic challenge unless suddenly everyone he fought was on Jiren's level, which would be absurd. I think it's going to be left as a "Deus ex Machina", as I could easily see in the movie Goku fighting to the point where we see it again.

As for Super Saiyan Blue Evolution, that seemingly got forgotten. Especially considering Vegeta is once again stating he's going to surpass Goku...when without UI he already has. SSBE was about on par with SSBKx20 when they fought with Jiren, so Vegeta having access to that power with no drawbacks puts him above a non-UI Goku

User avatar
JazzMazz
I Live Here
Posts: 2216
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:28 am
Location: Mordor, the Borg cube and Voldemort's lair all at the same time in the year 199X

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by JazzMazz » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:26 am

Can we all agree that while Goku can't ordinarily go UI, he can still use the form if pressured to do so?

Because I've just seen a lot of people saying "Oh yeah, Ultra Instinct is something that's out of the picture." No its not, its just something that can only be accessed on occasion and specific circumstance.

User avatar
BlueBasilisk
I Live Here
Posts: 3061
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by BlueBasilisk » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:50 am

JazzMazz wrote:Can we all agree that while Goku can't ordinarily go UI, he can still use the form if pressured to do so?

Because I've just seen a lot of people saying "Oh yeah, Ultra Instinct is something that's out of the picture." No its not, its just something that can only be accessed on occasion and specific circumstance.
It's never been depicted as something he can just access on his own, and didn't Whis say when he was fighting Kefla that it would become more difficult to trigger each time?

User avatar
JazzMazz
I Live Here
Posts: 2216
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:28 am
Location: Mordor, the Borg cube and Voldemort's lair all at the same time in the year 199X

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by JazzMazz » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:54 am

BlueBasilisk wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:Can we all agree that while Goku can't ordinarily go UI, he can still use the form if pressured to do so?

Because I've just seen a lot of people saying "Oh yeah, Ultra Instinct is something that's out of the picture." No its not, its just something that can only be accessed on occasion and specific circumstance.
It's never been depicted as something he can just access on his own, and didn't Whis say when he was fighting Kefla that it would become more difficult to trigger each time?
Yes, it was stated.

But that doesn't mean its impossible to access.

When Goku fights stronger opponents than those his fought currently(people stronger than Jiren), I'm sure the form will have a resurgence.

ToshioWrites
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 573
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:22 pm

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by ToshioWrites » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:27 pm

UI isn't something Goku can access at will. He has to be absolutely backed into a corner with no way out for it to activate. SSBE on the other hand is something Vegeta can use at will. We saw at the end of 126 he was out of energy and in base and then in 127 went right back into it.

They need to learn to use instinctual movement in all their forms and not relying on magical activation of forms. Same thing with training their base forms so that their ssbkkx20 or ssbe can fight GoDs level fighters.

User avatar
Jackalope89
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1012
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:36 pm

Re: Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

Post by Jackalope89 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:06 pm

Besides; Vegeta's most powerful form will be Super Daddy Vegeta Super Daddy. The power to scare away any and all boys that want to ask out his daughter, and be the ultimate in protecting his family!

While still being dere at the same time.

Post Reply