How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by ssj4goku1992 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:43 pm

Helios518 wrote:
ssj4goku1992 wrote:
The gr wrote:
So a guy who can erase people wether their dead or not and defeating a Super Saiyan god is not badass.
If he would have looked like he belongs in a cartoon that can be watched by adults, yes, he would have been. If he would have looked like Broly.
Dragon Ball's audience was never targeted for adults, so you should stop believing they should make things to appease adults.
Then it s a piece of shit

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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by ssj4goku1992 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:44 pm

Last time i checked i wasn't 10. If it cannot be watched by an adult, just a piece of shit

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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by JazzMazz » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:57 pm

ssj4goku1992 wrote:
The gr wrote:
ssj4goku1992 wrote: They love it how we love it. Cause its DBZ continuation. Beerus doesnt fucking look badass and all of that pudding shit for sure aint badass and something that would appeal to an adult.

So a guy who can erase people wether their dead or not and defeating a Super Saiyan god is not badass.
If he would have looked like he belongs in a cartoon that can be watched by adults, yes, he would have been. If he would have looked like Broly.

But considering that DBS has characters that seem out of teletubbies.. No he isn't
Character don't need to be Super muscley or extra-ordinarily buff tlo be "badass". In fact, thats one of the things Toriyama kind of critiqued consistently through the designs of his final villains being physically unimposing, with the most obvious example of this being Freeza.

Would you say Freeza isn't badass because his not a hyper roided out brain dead idiot?

Whats important is that the character designs have menacing qualities that can be used to speak of the threat of the character, thats something Freeza, Vegeta and Beerus(these are the most noteable examples), all have in common, and I would say each of them have that ominous element of threat to them executed very well.

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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by ssj4goku1992 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:03 pm

JazzMazz wrote:
ssj4goku1992 wrote:
The gr wrote:
So a guy who can erase people wether their dead or not and defeating a Super Saiyan god is not badass.
If he would have looked like he belongs in a cartoon that can be watched by adults, yes, he would have been. If he would have looked like Broly.

But considering that DBS has characters that seem out of teletubbies.. No he isn't
Character don't need to be Super muscley or extra-ordinarily buff tlo be "badass". In fact, thats one of the things Toriyama kind of critiqued consistently through the designs of his final villains being physically unimposing, with the most obvious example of this being Freeza.

Would you say Freeza isn't badass because his not a hyper roided out brain dead idiot?

Whats important is that the character designs have menacing qualities that can be used to speak of the threat of the character, thats something Freeza, Vegeta and Beerus(these are the most noteable examples), all have in common, and I would say each of them have that ominous element of threat to them executed very well.
Frieza and Vegeta yes, Beerus no.
Why would he be brain dead if he s roided? Are you a nerd? Are you afraid of roided out guys and think they are idiots?

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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by ssj4goku1992 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:06 pm

JazzMazz wrote:
ssj4goku1992 wrote:
The gr wrote:
So a guy who can erase people wether their dead or not and defeating a Super Saiyan god is not badass.
If he would have looked like he belongs in a cartoon that can be watched by adults, yes, he would have been. If he would have looked like Broly.

But considering that DBS has characters that seem out of teletubbies.. No he isn't
Character don't need to be Super muscley or extra-ordinarily buff tlo be "badass". In fact, thats one of the things Toriyama kind of critiqued consistently through the designs of his final villains being physically unimposing, with the most obvious example of this being Freeza.

Would you say Freeza isn't badass because his not a hyper roided out brain dead idiot?

Whats important is that the character designs have menacing qualities that can be used to speak of the threat of the character, thats something Freeza, Vegeta and Beerus(these are the most noteable examples), all have in common, and I would say each of them have that ominous element of threat to them executed very well.
Toriyama sucks a lot of the time. Who gives a fuck what he thinks? I give a fuck only about what i see. He needed 4 interventions to get to perfect cell. If it was for him the cell saga would have been 19 and 20 and MUI would have looked EVEN lamer than SSG which is a performance...

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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by Bergamo » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:15 pm

ssj4goku1992 wrote:Last time i checked i wasn't 10. If it cannot be watched by an adult, just a piece of shit
Dragon Ball 1-16 can be enjoyed by both adults and children, and it has a lot of depth. Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean no one can.
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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by ssj4goku1992 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:18 pm

Bergamo wrote:
ssj4goku1992 wrote:Last time i checked i wasn't 10. If it cannot be watched by an adult, just a piece of shit
Dragon Ball 1-16 can be enjoyed by both adults and children, and it has a lot of depth. Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean no one can.
You enjoy it cause you have the appropriate mental age. If you want a good show besides dbz watch yu yu hakusho. If you are a brain dead kid watch teletubbies or pilaf and arale's adventures in dbs

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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by JazzMazz » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:19 pm

ssj4goku1992 wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
ssj4goku1992 wrote: If he would have looked like he belongs in a cartoon that can be watched by adults, yes, he would have been. If he would have looked like Broly.

But considering that DBS has characters that seem out of teletubbies.. No he isn't
Character don't need to be Super muscley or extra-ordinarily buff tlo be "badass". In fact, thats one of the things Toriyama kind of critiqued consistently through the designs of his final villains being physically unimposing, with the most obvious example of this being Freeza.

Would you say Freeza isn't badass because his not a hyper roided out brain dead idiot?

Whats important is that the character designs have menacing qualities that can be used to speak of the threat of the character, thats something Freeza, Vegeta and Beerus(these are the most noteable examples), all have in common, and I would say each of them have that ominous element of threat to them executed very well.
Frieza and Vegeta yes, Beerus no.
Why would he be brain dead if he s roided? Are you a nerd? Are you afraid of roided out guys and think they are idiots?
I'm saying that, because thats literally Broly's character. How the hell couldn't you get such an obvious joke?

I think Beerus is actually the best example of a minimalistic threatening design. I think his cat head adds this absurd unnatural element that seperates him from Freeza or Vegeta. You can do loads of creepy unsettling angles with a character with an animal face, and I think BOG(despite being awful directorially in both adaptations), very least managed to emphasize his threatening nature, with the rest of his attire doing a good job of giving a very Egyptian god vibe to him.

EDIT: Three, he had 3 designs for Cell, and the only one of them really sold the threat of the character(it was the first form, that thing is genuinely unsettling, his perfect form is just kind of generic bad guy, and his 2nd looks, kind of between a generic bad guy and bug man).

Also, despite people lambasting SSG as being nothing more than a recolour, I would say its easily the best looking transformation from Super aesthetically. Even though it was kind of pushing it already, every transformation after that in Super was infinitely more garish than it.

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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by Bergamo » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:23 pm

ssj4goku1992 wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
ssj4goku1992 wrote:Last time i checked i wasn't 10. If it cannot be watched by an adult, just a piece of shit
Dragon Ball 1-16 can be enjoyed by both adults and children, and it has a lot of depth. Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean no one can.
You enjoy it cause you have the appropriate mental age. If you want a good show besides dbz watch yu yu hakusho. If you are a brain dead kid watch teletubbies or pilaf and arale's adventures in dbs
I don't know many mature people who insult others on discussion boards, and in case you are wondering, I have watched YuYu Hakusho and I really enjoyed it. Anyways, that's not related to my enjoyment of Dragon Ball.

You call me immature, but I don't needlessly spread negativity on the internet and delude myself into thinking somebody cares. If you are going to harass people, please be sure to not neglect commas and apostrophes.
Last edited by Bergamo on Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by ssj4goku1992 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:24 pm

JazzMazz wrote:
ssj4goku1992 wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: Character don't need to be Super muscley or extra-ordinarily buff tlo be "badass". In fact, thats one of the things Toriyama kind of critiqued consistently through the designs of his final villains being physically unimposing, with the most obvious example of this being Freeza.

Would you say Freeza isn't badass because his not a hyper roided out brain dead idiot?

Whats important is that the character designs have menacing qualities that can be used to speak of the threat of the character, thats something Freeza, Vegeta and Beerus(these are the most noteable examples), all have in common, and I would say each of them have that ominous element of threat to them executed very well.
Frieza and Vegeta yes, Beerus no.
Why would he be brain dead if he s roided? Are you a nerd? Are you afraid of roided out guys and think they are idiots?
I'm saying that, because thats literally Broly's character. How the hell couldn't you get such an obvious joke?

I think Beerus is actually the best example of a minimalistic threatening design. I think his cat head adds this absurd unnatural element that seperates him from Freeza or Vegeta. You can do loads of creepy unsettling angles with a character with an animal face, and I think BOG(despite being awful directorially in both adaptations), very least managed to emphasize his threatening nature, with the rest of his attire doing a good job of giving a very Egyptian god vibe to him.

EDIT: Three, he had 3 designs for Cell, and the only one of them really sold the threat of the character(it was the first form, that thing is genuinely unsettling, his perfect form is just kind of generic bad guy, and his 2nd looks, kind of between a generic bad guy and bug man).

Also, despite people lambasting SSG as being nothing more than a recolour, I would say its easily the best looking transformation from Super aestheticaylly. Even though it was kind of pushing it already, every transformation after that in Super was infinitely more garish than it.
4. 19 and 20. 17 and 18. Imperfect cell. Semi perfect cell
THEN perfect cell.

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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by ssj4goku1992 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:35 pm

Bergamo wrote:
ssj4goku1992 wrote:
Bergamo wrote: Dragon Ball 1-16 can be enjoyed by both adults and children, and it has a lot of depth. Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean no one can.
You enjoy it cause you have the appropriate mental age. If you want a good show besides dbz watch yu yu hakusho. If you are a brain dead kid watch teletubbies or pilaf and arale's adventures in dbs
I don't know many mature people who insult others on discussion boards, and in case you are wondering, I have watched YuYu Hakusho and I really enjoyed it. Anyways, that's not related to my enjoyment of Dragon Ball.
You call me immature, but I don't needlessly spread negativity on the internet and delude myself into thinking somebody cares. If you are going to harass people, please be sure to not neglect commas and apostrophes.
You are far more illiterate than me believe me. I just dont give a fuck. I made this account to make a thread and a poll to convince the fandom to spam toei and toriyama on social media to make dragon ball a serious series like dbz again. I wanted to start a movement and convince the whole dragon ball fandom about this so we can actually make a change. The moment i realised that the fanatics like you are too idiots to question dragon ball and the casuals would not go to those lengths is the moment i just didnt give a fuck. Saiyan pride will be written in red kanji on my left arm in about a month, thats when i have the tattoo schedule but i am literally disgusted that i share the same hobbies with people like you. Of course I'm getting out of here and hope i never see this bunch again. Sayonara

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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by Bergamo » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:45 pm

ssj4goku1992 wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
ssj4goku1992 wrote: You enjoy it cause you have the appropriate mental age. If you want a good show besides dbz watch yu yu hakusho. If you are a brain dead kid watch teletubbies or pilaf and arale's adventures in dbs
I don't know many mature people who insult others on discussion boards, and in case you are wondering, I have watched YuYu Hakusho and I really enjoyed it. Anyways, that's not related to my enjoyment of Dragon Ball.
You call me immature, but I don't needlessly spread negativity on the internet and delude myself into thinking somebody cares. If you are going to harass people, please be sure to not neglect commas and apostrophes.
You are far more illiterate than me believe me. I just dont give a fuck. I made this account to make a thread and a poll to convince the fandom to spam toei and toriyama on social media to make dragon ball a serious series like dbz again. I wanted to start a movement and convince the whole dragon ball fandom about this so we can actually make a change. The moment i realised that the fanatics like you are too idiots to question dragon ball and the casuals would not go to those lengths is the moment i just didnt give a fuck. Saiyan pride will be written in red kanji on my left arm in about a month, thats when i have the tattoo schedule but i am literally disgusted that i share the same hobbies with people like you. Of course I'm getting out of here and hope i never see this bunch again. Sayonara
I'm sorry that I'm "too idiots," but I like the comedic aspects of Dragon Ball. I think Cell and Buu were really boring, and I also think that the series should focus more on lore and less on big explosions, which is a topic I hope to discuss with someone more willing to have a productive conversation. I guess we have both said our pieces.
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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by Exline » Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:25 pm

ssj4goku1992 wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
ssj4goku1992 wrote: You enjoy it cause you have the appropriate mental age. If you want a good show besides dbz watch yu yu hakusho. If you are a brain dead kid watch teletubbies or pilaf and arale's adventures in dbs
I don't know many mature people who insult others on discussion boards, and in case you are wondering, I have watched YuYu Hakusho and I really enjoyed it. Anyways, that's not related to my enjoyment of Dragon Ball.
You call me immature, but I don't needlessly spread negativity on the internet and delude myself into thinking somebody cares. If you are going to harass people, please be sure to not neglect commas and apostrophes.
You are far more illiterate than me believe me. I just dont give a fuck. I made this account to make a thread and a poll to convince the fandom to spam toei and toriyama on social media to make dragon ball a serious series like dbz again. I wanted to start a movement and convince the whole dragon ball fandom about this so we can actually make a change. The moment i realised that the fanatics like you are too idiots to question dragon ball and the casuals would not go to those lengths is the moment i just didnt give a fuck. Saiyan pride will be written in red kanji on my left arm in about a month, thats when i have the tattoo schedule but i am literally disgusted that i share the same hobbies with people like you. Of course I'm getting out of here and hope i never see this bunch again. Sayonara
Sheesh. Whats the point of joining a discussion board if you can't control your anger to have coherent conversations instead of going off on rants ;/

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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by Freeza9000 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:41 pm

ssj4goku1992 wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
ssj4goku1992 wrote:Last time i checked i wasn't 10. If it cannot be watched by an adult, just a piece of shit
Dragon Ball 1-16 can be enjoyed by both adults and children, and it has a lot of depth. Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean no one can.
You enjoy it cause you have the appropriate mental age. If you want a good show besides dbz watch yu yu hakusho. If you are a brain dead kid watch teletubbies or pilaf and arale's adventures in dbs
Holy Jeebus, it’s like this dude came straight outta Super Mazaku’s comment section.

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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by hardcorefakes » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:56 am

By getting better writers.

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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by OLKv3 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:22 am

They won't fix them. The writing in DBS was pretty much the standard for Toei DB material
Kuwabara wrote:Or maybe only a very vocal minority of western fans care about any of this shit.
Stop acting like complaints are only from America. This is my biggest annoyance about this fandom, acting like DB only gets criticized here.

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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:44 am

Bergamo wrote: I like the comedic aspects of Dragon Ball. I think Cell and Buu were really boring, and I also think that the series should focus more on lore and less on big explosions, which is a topic I hope to discuss with someone more willing to have a productive conversation. I guess we have both said our pieces.
I've said it before, and I think the Buu arc and the BoG movie just had a better balance of comedy and threat than Super did, I found Super focusing way too much on silliness ended up draining it's progression and atmosphere. Where as the Buu saga at least had those aspects play off each other, most notably, Buu & Mr. Satan's early relationship, or Super Buu in general. Him turning people into food items while still being creepy and mood-swinging was that combination. The Cell arc was also the closest thing we got to the Namek arc where you had an active plot engaged cat & mouse scenario to it that did present itself like a storyline, which though it was more intimidating than silly, had a consistent tone. Another thing Super lacked. They tried with the Zamasu arc but it just wasn't paced well enough for this to happen.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by kemuri07 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:17 am

hardcorefakes wrote:By getting better writers.
Which is never going to happen because "why would they?"

There are people here who truly believe that the last few episodes of DBS is the best thing DB has ever done.


Think about how crazy that fucking is.

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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by kemuri07 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:19 am

ssj4goku1992 wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
ssj4goku1992 wrote: You enjoy it cause you have the appropriate mental age. If you want a good show besides dbz watch yu yu hakusho. If you are a brain dead kid watch teletubbies or pilaf and arale's adventures in dbs
I don't know many mature people who insult others on discussion boards, and in case you are wondering, I have watched YuYu Hakusho and I really enjoyed it. Anyways, that's not related to my enjoyment of Dragon Ball.
You call me immature, but I don't needlessly spread negativity on the internet and delude myself into thinking somebody cares. If you are going to harass people, please be sure to not neglect commas and apostrophes.
You are far more illiterate than me believe me. I just dont give a fuck. I made this account to make a thread and a poll to convince the fandom to spam toei and toriyama on social media to make dragon ball a serious series like dbz again. I wanted to start a movement and convince the whole dragon ball fandom about this so we can actually make a change. The moment i realised that the fanatics like you are too idiots to question dragon ball and the casuals would not go to those lengths is the moment i just didnt give a fuck. Saiyan pride will be written in red kanji on my left arm in about a month, thats when i have the tattoo schedule but i am literally disgusted that i share the same hobbies with people like you. Of course I'm getting out of here and hope i never see this bunch again. Sayonara
the level of delusion in this single post.

Holy fuck.

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Re: How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

Post by JazzMazz » Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:24 am

hardcorefakes wrote:By getting better writers.
I don't see how that would help. You could have the greatest writing team in existence, however, if the direction is shite, and their idea's are poorly executed on screen, then their is really no advantage to hiring them(besides, the majority of the writers on Super are for the most part proven veterans of the industry, I don't think the writers themselves are the problem).

If there is a new Dragonball series, I think having better planning, a more normal schedule, stronger episode directors on a whole and an actual freaking series composer, would be all that's necessary to improve the general presentation of the story, as well as the quality of the scripts themselves.

Having a series composer, who serves as a head writer that organises the other staff's idea's into scripts, would give more structure to the over-arching narrative, as well as better sense of consistency, namely because they would handle a fair bit of the writing themselves.

I think Atsuhiro Tomioka, who came on in the FT arc and wrote a huge chunk of episodes for the show, would be perfectly capable of handling that position, considering his past experiences with the role.
ssj4goku1992 wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
ssj4goku1992 wrote: Frieza and Vegeta yes, Beerus no.
Why would he be brain dead if he s roided? Are you a nerd? Are you afraid of roided out guys and think they are idiots?
I'm saying that, because thats literally Broly's character. How the hell couldn't you get such an obvious joke?

I think Beerus is actually the best example of a minimalistic threatening design. I think his cat head adds this absurd unnatural element that seperates him from Freeza or Vegeta. You can do loads of creepy unsettling angles with a character with an animal face, and I think BOG(despite being awful directorially in both adaptations), very least managed to emphasize his threatening nature, with the rest of his attire doing a good job of giving a very Egyptian god vibe to him.

EDIT: Three, he had 3 designs for Cell, and the only one of them really sold the threat of the character(it was the first form, that thing is genuinely unsettling, his perfect form is just kind of generic bad guy, and his 2nd looks, kind of between a generic bad guy and bug man).

Also, despite people lambasting SSG as being nothing more than a recolour, I would say its easily the best looking transformation from Super aestheticaylly. Even though it was kind of pushing it already, every transformation after that in Super was infinitely more garish than it.
4. 19 and 20. 17 and 18. Imperfect cell. Semi perfect cell
THEN perfect cell.
I can count.
I just find the idea that villains can't be badass if they have silly quirks absurd. Especially since, in the case of Beerus, his quirk isn't actually anything that reduces his character. If anything, it adds a sense of duality to his character that makes his more serious and villainous moments all the more impactful.

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