Vegeta in Dragon Ball Super: Anime x manga

[TheSaiyanGod]

I know there is a specific topic for discussions about anime manga, but the theme of this post is not just that.

I see many people saying that manga values Vegeta more in the manga, while in the anime Goku receives an excessive prominence. So which of the two was Vegeta best treated?
And what do you think of his participation in this series? Overcame the '' Vegeta of DBZ ''?

Well, in my opinion, Vegeta definitely had a better treatment in the manga

- BoG saga: This saga in the manga was too short to make a decent comparison, but in the anime, Vegeta was literally trampled and verbally humiliated by Beerus, something that did not happen in either the movie or the manga. So even with the traditional '' my bulma '' existing in all media, in the movie and in the manga Vegeta was not so humiliated.

- Champa's tournament saga: Vegeta's trajectory was very similar in both anime and manga. He defeated 3 U6 warriors and was defeated by Hitto. The difference is that in the manga, Vegeta was much stronger than Hitto and only lost because he used the SSB against Kyabe, while in the anime Vegeta was overcome not only by Hitto but by Goku with SSB KK (who created an abyss of difference between the two).

- Future Trunks saga: In both anime and manga, we had a deepening in the relationship between Vegeta and Trunks, Vegeta surpassing Black and merging with Goku. But I think in the manga, Vegeta was definitely treated much better, maybe even more so than Goku himself.
In the first fight against Black, he destroyed the enemy with SSJ2 and SSB. After this, he was defeated, trained in RoSaT, developed a unique and intelligent strategy (instead of just increasing brute force) using SSG (a transformation he did not use in the anime), overcame Black again and forced him to to merge with Zamasu. And in the end, he even showed a new technique that pulverized two Merged Zamasu.

In the anime, Vegeta was defeated in the first two battles against Black and Zamasu, and despite having managed to overcome his enemy after training in RoSaT, Black quickly reached Vegeta again with that scythe, which did it seems that Vegeta's training was useless. After that, he did not do much.
I think one thing I'd really like to have seen in the manga is Father-Son Galick Ho, but otherwise, Vegeta in the manga actually treated better.

- Tournament of Power saga: In manga, this saga has started now, so there's no telling. In the anime, although Vegeta had stayed most of the tournament without having much relevance, in the end he got a new transformation and defeated Hakaishin Toppo.
I just get a little dejected that Vegeta has only reached / passed the SSB KK in the last arc, while in the manga, a few chapters later after Goku overcomes him with the MSSB, Vegeta has reached his rival again with the same transformation

[ToshioWrites]

I’d say Manga


Vegeta loss against Hit was more about his previous use of blue vs Cabba rather than being humiliated like the anime with no cop out


Black was undoubtably inferior to Post ROSAT Vegeta Unlike the anime counterpart who shat out clones and got the edge again

Goku surpassing Vegeta in blue in the Zamasu Arc is more easily digested than the anime cause it came with Goku fully mastering blue as compared to anime where blue goku magically powered up enough to where he could push back m zamasu by himself while it took Vegeta and Trunks to do that previously

Vegeta isn’t 20 times weaker than Goku going into the ToP and Beerus acknowledges his power and says he could be a GoD candidate elsewhere

He seems more chilled out than the anime version which goes overboard with the pride shtick

[Mercenary]

Definitely manga because of reasons you've mentioned, but instead of poorly executed (in my opinion) Father-Son Galick Gun, we've got to see really cool Vegeta's new technique - Gamma Burst Flash - which would have managed to annihilate Merged Zamasu if it wasn't for his immortality. But at least he managed to save Goku.

[JazzMazz]

Can I just say that there is literally nothing wrong with a character being humbled on multiple occasions, especially if it strengthens their resolve to improve, which is exactly the case with Vegeta in the anime a lot of the time. Also, there is nothing wrong with a character like Vegeta getting humiliated if it serves the story. I think the example of this would be the Hit fight, which is a truly humbling experience for Vegeta in the anime, and also serves to establish Hit as a truly dangerous opponent unlike none other they had previously encountered. In the manga, Vegeta's defeat is initially played for the same effect, but the follow up chapter in the fight handles Vegeta's defeat with kid gloves, instead reducing it to a case of "Oh he could have won against this opponent easily if not for XYZ". It not only reduces the impact of those scenes, but also makes the main cast seem immune to experiencing genuinely humbling experiences.

Same is true in the manga v anime version of Vegeta's first fight with Black. In the manga, Vegeta has Black in the palm of his hand, and only loses after several confrontations in a grim and gritty extended battle.
In the anime, Vegeta's advantage is only ever a superficial one, with Black brushing off all the damage he received in his fight with Vegeta easily, and humbling Vegeta in his Rose form in a devastatingly effective and sudden manner.

[sintzu]

Mnaga by far. In Champa's arc he didn't lose to Hit or be weaker than Goku because he himself was weak. In Black's arc not only was he the only one to fight Black but he actually won and even got the final hit on Fused Zamasu. In the current arc he had an amazing fight with Beerus. So far the manga has been a dream come true for Vegeta's fans and I can't wait to see what he'll get next.

The one thing the anime really surpassed everything else was in RF as it made him more of a main character by having him be the only who goes to Whis, reach Blue on his own and be the only one to beat down Freeza.

[Lord Beerus]

I'd say the anime, because I get more investment in Vegeta's victories and defeats as they feel more organic to the story.

Can I just say that there is literally nothing wrong with a character being humbled on multiple occasions, especially if it strengthens their resolve to improve, which is exactly the case with Vegeta in the anime a lot of the time. Also, there is nothing wrong with a character like Vegeta getting humiliated if it serves the story. I think the example of this would be the Hit fight, which is a truly humbling experience for Vegeta in the anime, and also serves to establish Hit as a truly dangerous opponent unlike none other they had previously encountered. In the manga, Vegeta's defeat is initially played for the same effect, but the follow up chapter in the fight handles Vegeta's defeat with kid gloves, instead reducing it to a case of "Oh he could have won against this opponent easily if not for XYZ". It not only reduces the impact of those scenes, but also makes the main cast seem immune to experiencing genuinely humbling experiences.

Same is true in the manga v anime version of Vegeta's first fight with Black. In the manga, Vegeta has Black in the palm of his hand, and only loses after several confrontations in a grim and gritty extended battle.
In the anime, Vegeta's advantage is only ever a superficial one, with Black brushing off all the damage he received in his fight with Vegeta easily, and humbling Vegeta in his Rose form in a devastatingly effective and sudden manner.

Couldn't have summed it up any better.

I hated the Vegeta/Hit fight in the manga, because it not only made look like a fool for not defeating Hit, but completely killed any mystique the character had with his unique arsenal of abilities and techniques. The fight against Goku Black was even worse.

[Whatever]

In the manga he is treated better because Toyotaro favors him A LOT to the point he structures the narrative around Vegeta so he won't ever be humiliated.
In the anime he is written better so by default he is a better character,one major example so far is how different anime and manga Vegeta were in the black arc.

In the manga he screwed around with Black more than once and even backtracked on his character by refusing to fuse with Goku,althought he has more accomplishments.
In the anime he got beaten up way more but Vegeta was always serious,accepted right away to fuse and even made it his resolve to fight for Trunk's sake.

[Mercenary]

In the manga he is treated better because Toyotaro favors him A LOT to the point he structures the narrative around Vegeta so he won't ever be humiliated.
In the anime he is written better so by default he is a better character,one major example so far is how different anime and manga Vegeta were in the black arc.

In the manga he screwed around with Black more than once and even backtracked on his character by refusing to fuse with Goku,althought he has more accomplishments.
In the anime he got beaten up way more but Vegeta was always serious,accepted right away to fuse and even made it his resolve to fight for Trunk's sake.

To be fair, Vegeta isn't even Toyotaro's favorite character (Goku is the one) but I don't know why people keep thinking that if someone isn't your favorite, then you have to sh... on him and get him shafted over and over.
IMO Toyotaro just understands that Vegeta jobbing and getting shafted in order to make Goku look good became stale and boring long time ago. And I don't see anything outrageous in Vegeta's portrayal in the manga.
I just love it.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Can I just say that there is literally nothing wrong with a character being humbled on multiple occasions, especially if it strengthens their resolve to improve, which is exactly the case with Vegeta in the anime a lot of the time. Also, there is nothing wrong with a character like Vegeta getting humiliated if it serves the story. I think the example of this would be the Hit fight, which is a truly humbling experience for Vegeta in the anime, and also serves to establish Hit as a truly dangerous opponent unlike none other they had previously encountered. In the manga, Vegeta's defeat is initially played for the same effect, but the follow up chapter in the fight handles Vegeta's defeat with kid gloves, instead reducing it to a case of "Oh he could have won against this opponent easily if not for XYZ". It not only reduces the impact of those scenes, but also makes the main cast seem immune to experiencing genuinely humbling experiences.

Same is true in the manga v anime version of Vegeta's first fight with Black. In the manga, Vegeta has Black in the palm of his hand, and only loses after several confrontations in a grim and gritty extended battle.
In the anime, Vegeta's advantage is only ever a superficial one, with Black brushing off all the damage he received in his fight with Vegeta easily, and humbling Vegeta in his Rose form in a devastatingly effective and sudden manner.

From the time of Dragon Ball Z, Vegeta always served as a ladder to the Goku or to show the power of the villains. This has become something massive and is no longer shocking, only serves to ridicule the character. In DBS, Vegeta was humiliated several times, and in some cases even psychologically, as happened against Black, in which Vegeta was called a snack.

In the anime how the fight against Hitto served as lesso for Vegeta?
Vegeta was humiliated without being able to hit a punch in his opponent, and served as a ladder for Goku to discover how the technique of Hitto, with the help of Jaco.
Soon after, Vegeta is overcome when Goku uses the Kaioken and again gets frustrated.
How did your personality evolve?

In the DBS anime, it seems that Vegeta has not changed at all in some moments, because despite the defeats, he continues to attack the enemy without thinking and being arrogate, while at other times he shows an evolution in his personality, this is strange.

Well, in the manga Vegeta created strategies to defeat his enemies, showed new forms, matched his rival and does not seem to have double personality as in the anime.
I'm not saying that he in the anime was bad, but TOEI could treat Vegeta a little better

[JazzMazz]

Can I just say that there is literally nothing wrong with a character being humbled on multiple occasions, especially if it strengthens their resolve to improve, which is exactly the case with Vegeta in the anime a lot of the time. Also, there is nothing wrong with a character like Vegeta getting humiliated if it serves the story. I think the example of this would be the Hit fight, which is a truly humbling experience for Vegeta in the anime, and also serves to establish Hit as a truly dangerous opponent unlike none other they had previously encountered. In the manga, Vegeta's defeat is initially played for the same effect, but the follow up chapter in the fight handles Vegeta's defeat with kid gloves, instead reducing it to a case of "Oh he could have won against this opponent easily if not for XYZ". It not only reduces the impact of those scenes, but also makes the main cast seem immune to experiencing genuinely humbling experiences.

Same is true in the manga v anime version of Vegeta's first fight with Black. In the manga, Vegeta has Black in the palm of his hand, and only loses after several confrontations in a grim and gritty extended battle.
In the anime, Vegeta's advantage is only ever a superficial one, with Black brushing off all the damage he received in his fight with Vegeta easily, and humbling Vegeta in his Rose form in a devastatingly effective and sudden manner.

From the time of Dragon Ball Z, Vegeta always served as a ladder to the Goku or to show the power of the villains. This has become something massive and is no longer shocking, only serves to ridicule the character. In DBS, Vegeta was humiliated several times, and in some cases even psychologically, as happened against Black, in which Vegeta was called a snack.

In the anime how the fight against Hitto served as lesso for Vegeta?
Vegeta was humiliated without being able to hit a punch in his opponent, and served as a ladder for Goku to discover how the technique of Hitto, with the help of Jaco.
Soon after, Vegeta is overcome when Goku uses the Kaioken and again gets frustrated.
How did your personality evolve?

In the DBS anime, it seems that Vegeta has not changed at all in some moments, because despite the defeats, he continues to attack the enemy without thinking and being arrogate, while at other times he shows an evolution in his personality, this is strange.

Well, in the manga Vegeta created strategies to defeat his enemies, showed new forms, matched his rival and does not seem to have double personality as in the anime.
I'm not saying that he in the anime was bad, but TOEI could treat Vegeta a little better

Well, while its not particularly uneffective, I don't think you can deny the effectiveness of its use in the anime, with 38 and 56, specifically Vegeta's beatdowns in those episodes, being some of the most fondly remembered episodes of the show.

Vegeta's defeat against Hit didn't necessarily serve to progress his character, and it didn't necessarily need to. The entire point of that fight was to establish how much of threat Hit was to the main cast, and the anime executed this idea droves better than the manga, with a far greater emphasis placed on the fight itself serving to really sell how dangerous Hit was.

TBH, isn't Vegeta more analytical in the anime than in the manga? I mean, in the Hit fight, the anime actually bothered to show Vegeta formulating multiple strategies and methods of attack to no avail, and while its true he does rush in, he still tries to form strategies ahead of the confrontation, such as in 122, and to a lesser extent 64.

If anything, Vegeta in the manga is the one that gives up on strategy to focus on raw power, in the fight against Black, he had a winning strategy, but he dropped it immediately as soon as he Zamasu fused. If anything, he is just as prone to bursts of unadulterated anger as his anime counter-part, or don't you remember when he lost his head against Magetta because his strategy failed?

I don't understand what your problem with characters being humiliated is, when that is something Vegeta does literally all the time in fights his dominating. Vegeta's big mouth is what makes him being the receiving end some of the time so satisfying, especially when done right.

Why don't I here people complain when characters get humiliated in their battles with Vegeta, someone who constantly berates and humiliates his foe as he mercilessly beats them down? If its not a problem when Vegeta does it, it shouldn't be a problem when its done in turn to Vegeta.

[TBMx]

The anime is completely delusional.

Goku and Vegeta are not portrayed as rivals in the anime. They just keep the superficial imagery of them as "rivals". They'll have them posing for the camera and clashing in what looks like a rivalry, but it's a payoff that was never set up. There's no substance behind it whatsoever. Which is a microcosm for Super as a whole. The so called "rivalry" between Goku and Vegeta in the anime is all show and no go.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Can I just say that there is literally nothing wrong with a character being humbled on multiple occasions, especially if it strengthens their resolve to improve, which is exactly the case with Vegeta in the anime a lot of the time. Also, there is nothing wrong with a character like Vegeta getting humiliated if it serves the story. I think the example of this would be the Hit fight, which is a truly humbling experience for Vegeta in the anime, and also serves to establish Hit as a truly dangerous opponent unlike none other they had previously encountered. In the manga, Vegeta's defeat is initially played for the same effect, but the follow up chapter in the fight handles Vegeta's defeat with kid gloves, instead reducing it to a case of "Oh he could have won against this opponent easily if not for XYZ". It not only reduces the impact of those scenes, but also makes the main cast seem immune to experiencing genuinely humbling experiences.

Same is true in the manga v anime version of Vegeta's first fight with Black. In the manga, Vegeta has Black in the palm of his hand, and only loses after several confrontations in a grim and gritty extended battle.
In the anime, Vegeta's advantage is only ever a superficial one, with Black brushing off all the damage he received in his fight with Vegeta easily, and humbling Vegeta in his Rose form in a devastatingly effective and sudden manner.

From the time of Dragon Ball Z, Vegeta always served as a ladder to the Goku or to show the power of the villains. This has become something massive and is no longer shocking, only serves to ridicule the character. In DBS, Vegeta was humiliated several times, and in some cases even psychologically, as happened against Black, in which Vegeta was called a snack.

In the anime how the fight against Hitto served as lesso for Vegeta?
Vegeta was humiliated without being able to hit a punch in his opponent, and served as a ladder for Goku to discover how the technique of Hitto, with the help of Jaco.
Soon after, Vegeta is overcome when Goku uses the Kaioken and again gets frustrated.
How did your personality evolve?

In the DBS anime, it seems that Vegeta has not changed at all in some moments, because despite the defeats, he continues to attack the enemy without thinking and being arrogate, while at other times he shows an evolution in his personality, this is strange.

Well, in the manga Vegeta created strategies to defeat his enemies, showed new forms, matched his rival and does not seem to have double personality as in the anime.
I'm not saying that he in the anime was bad, but TOEI could treat Vegeta a little better

Well, while its not particularly uneffective, I don't think you can deny the effectiveness of its use in the anime, with 38 and 56, specifically Vegeta's beatdowns in those episodes, being some of the most fondly remembered episodes of the show.

Vegeta's defeat against Hit didn't necessarily serve to progress his character, and it didn't necessarily need to. The entire point of that fight was to establish how much of threat Hit was to the main cast, and the anime executed this idea droves better than the manga, with a far greater emphasis placed on the fight itself serving to really sell how dangerous Hit was.

TBH, isn't Vegeta more analytical in the anime than in the manga? I mean, in the Hit fight, the anime actually bothered to show Vegeta formulating multiple strategies and methods of attack to no avail, and while its true he does rush in, he still tries to form strategies ahead of the confrontation, such as in 122, and to a lesser extent 64.

If anything, Vegeta in the manga is the one that gives up on strategy to focus on raw power, in the fight against Black, he had a winning strategy, but he dropped it immediately as soon as he Zamasu fused. If anything, he is just as prone to bursts of unadulterated anger as his anime counter-part, or don't you remember when he lost his head against Magetta because his strategy failed?

I don't understand what your problem with characters being humiliated is, when that is something Vegeta does literally all the time in fights his dominating. Vegeta's big mouth is what makes him being the receiving end some of the time so satisfying, especially when done right.

Why don't I here people complain when characters get humiliated in their battles with Vegeta, someone who constantly berates and humiliates his foe as he mercilessly beats them down? If its not a problem when Vegeta does it, it shouldn't be a problem when its done in turn to Vegeta.

These episodes are not some of the most remembered of the series (according to you) because of the beatings of Vegeta, but because of the whole set
And yes, that has become something of a mass and it is not an obligation or good point that Vegeta serves as a ladder for villains.

In the manga, we also saw Vegeta being defeated by Hitto doing nothing and did not know that this was because of the SSB's energy expenditure. This only happened in the next chapter, which was released a month later. So Vegeta's defeat in the manga also emphasizes Hitto's power.
In fact, it was revealed that Vegeta could have beaten Hitto if he did not use SSB against Kyabe in the same chapter that Goku overcomes Hitto, so we would know that Hitto was not that powerful anyway.

In EP 38, Vegeta's "strategies" consisted basically of attacking the enemy, but only in different ways. The only really different thing he tried was at the end, while trying to hold Hitto to hit a blow, but even that was not effective. We saw him analyze the opponent rather than do something.
In EP 122 he also did not create a strategy, he casually understood the pattern of attacks of the enemy and managed to deflect of his blows.

What I mean is that in the manga, in FT saga, he did not train in RoSaT just to increase his strength as he did in the anime, he actually tried to think of something to defeat his enemies, in addition to minimizing the energy expenditure of SSB .
Against Merged Zamasu he did not try this strategy because the enemy was much stronger and it would not work

And that's exactly what I'm complaining about. In the anime, Vegeta was defeated several times because of his arrogance, but this does not seem to help the character evolve into anything. He does exactly the same thing against other enemies and loses, does not show a different personality, like you said.
In fact, mocking opponents is different from underestimating or attacking without thinking. It is Vegeta's characteristic to play with his opponents, but acting dumb and foolish does not make sense.
Even Goku is arrogant at times when he says that the enemy can not defeat him, or when he tells the gods to bring all the warriors they can to him, saying that he would defeat them all.

[Marlowe89]

Goku and Vegeta are not portrayed as rivals in the anime. They just keep the superficial imagery of them as "rivals". They'll have them posing for the camera and clashing in what looks like a rivalry, but it's a payoff that was never set up. There's no substance behind it whatsoever. Which is a microcosm for Super as a whole. The so called "rivalry" between Goku and Vegeta in the anime is all show and no go.

That's precisely the issue I have.

The anime tries to present the rivalry between Goku and Vegeta as a major theme (evident all the way up to the final scene in the final episode), but it doesn't build up to that theme in a way that truly compliments the narrative; it's pretty sporadic in execution, often stilted by hammy sequences that lead to awkwardly-repeated lines in the tournament's final phase or contextually incongruent character moments where Vegeta refuses to contribute to Goku's efforts even when a far worse nemesis (Frieza) does so readily, just to present a couple of examples.

On the other hand, the manga consistently foreshadows their competition and growth in every arc while having it flow with other plot threads for an actual thematic payoff. Very few scenes in the anime tie these elements together as brilliantly as, say, Vegeta catching up to Goku in a way that simultaneously highlights their tertiary rivalry with Beerus during a simple sparring scene prior to the Tournament of Power, which also works within the broader thread of an obstacle said to be even stronger than a God of Destruction.

That's just one of several reasons I find Vegeta's portrayal in the manga to be pretty decisively superior for the most part. His entire anatomy just works more with the story.

[batistabus]

An issue I have with Vegeta in the anime is that, unless he is directly interacting with his family or Cabba, he often acts like his Cell-era self. The manga does a much better job of portraying the Vegeta we were left with at the end of the Boo arc. He proposes merging to Goku. He's generally warmer to other characters. Toyotaro succeeds at portraying Vegeta's stubbornness and determination without regressing the character, which is something that some anime writers appear to struggle with.

This has already been said in this thread, but it actually feels like Goku and Vegeta are actual rivals in the manga. From the moment Goku obtained SSBKK up until the end of the ToP, Vegeta was nowhere near Goku's level. I wouldn't have a problem if the rivalry thing were dropped in the anime altogether, but it's not. There are moments where they are portrayed as rivals in their banter and in episode direction, but Vegeta does little to justify that in his actions. Even when Vegeta obtains SSB Evolved, it's still only about on par with SSBKK; something Goku has had for 2 arcs already. While Vegeta is still behind Goku in the manga, it's not by much. Perfected SSB is stronger than Vegeta's SSBxGod gimmick, but Vegeta was still able to accomplish something that Goku wasn't (transforming back and forth without losing all power). And while perfected SSB is stronger than Vegeta's technique, based on the drawbacks of Goku struggling with perfected SSB, it could have been a more effective option had things panned out differently. Yes, in the anime Vegeta was able to obtain SSBE while Goku was not, but it's too little too late. Right at the beginning of the Universe Survival Arc in the manga, Vegeta has already closed that gap.

[OLKv3]

Vegeta's treatment in the manga is better than Vegeta was ever treated the entirety of the series

[Vegeta_Sama]

One of the things I love about Manga Vegeta, is how he is generally more sociable and warm to others, like for exapmle in chapter 32 (I think) he greets Gohan and 17, and has a friendly conversation. That's something you don't really see in the anime. I feel like it's a better continuation of his character from the Buu arc.

[JazzMazz]

From the time of Dragon Ball Z, Vegeta always served as a ladder to the Goku or to show the power of the villains. This has become something massive and is no longer shocking, only serves to ridicule the character. In DBS, Vegeta was humiliated several times, and in some cases even psychologically, as happened against Black, in which Vegeta was called a snack.

In the anime how the fight against Hitto served as lesso for Vegeta?
Vegeta was humiliated without being able to hit a punch in his opponent, and served as a ladder for Goku to discover how the technique of Hitto, with the help of Jaco.
Soon after, Vegeta is overcome when Goku uses the Kaioken and again gets frustrated.
How did your personality evolve?

In the DBS anime, it seems that Vegeta has not changed at all in some moments, because despite the defeats, he continues to attack the enemy without thinking and being arrogate, while at other times he shows an evolution in his personality, this is strange.

Well, in the manga Vegeta created strategies to defeat his enemies, showed new forms, matched his rival and does not seem to have double personality as in the anime.
I'm not saying that he in the anime was bad, but TOEI could treat Vegeta a little better

Well, while its not particularly uneffective, I don't think you can deny the effectiveness of its use in the anime, with 38 and 56, specifically Vegeta's beatdowns in those episodes, being some of the most fondly remembered episodes of the show.

Vegeta's defeat against Hit didn't necessarily serve to progress his character, and it didn't necessarily need to. The entire point of that fight was to establish how much of threat Hit was to the main cast, and the anime executed this idea droves better than the manga, with a far greater emphasis placed on the fight itself serving to really sell how dangerous Hit was.

TBH, isn't Vegeta more analytical in the anime than in the manga? I mean, in the Hit fight, the anime actually bothered to show Vegeta formulating multiple strategies and methods of attack to no avail, and while its true he does rush in, he still tries to form strategies ahead of the confrontation, such as in 122, and to a lesser extent 64.

If anything, Vegeta in the manga is the one that gives up on strategy to focus on raw power, in the fight against Black, he had a winning strategy, but he dropped it immediately as soon as he Zamasu fused. If anything, he is just as prone to bursts of unadulterated anger as his anime counter-part, or don't you remember when he lost his head against Magetta because his strategy failed?

I don't understand what your problem with characters being humiliated is, when that is something Vegeta does literally all the time in fights his dominating. Vegeta's big mouth is what makes him being the receiving end some of the time so satisfying, especially when done right.

Why don't I here people complain when characters get humiliated in their battles with Vegeta, someone who constantly berates and humiliates his foe as he mercilessly beats them down? If its not a problem when Vegeta does it, it shouldn't be a problem when its done in turn to Vegeta.

These episodes are not some of the most remembered of the series (according to you) because of the beatings of Vegeta, but because of the whole set
And yes, that has become something of a mass and it is not an obligation or good point that Vegeta serves as a ladder for villains.

In the manga, we also saw Vegeta being defeated by Hitto doing nothing and did not know that this was because of the SSB's energy expenditure. This only happened in the next chapter, which was released a month later. So Vegeta's defeat in the manga also emphasizes Hitto's power.
In fact, it was revealed that Vegeta could have beaten Hitto if he did not use SSB against Kyabe in the same chapter that Goku overcomes Hitto, so we would know that Hitto was not that powerful anyway.

In EP 38, Vegeta's "strategies" consisted basically of attacking the enemy, but only in different ways. The only really different thing he tried was at the end, while trying to hold Hitto to hit a blow, but even that was not effective. We saw him analyze the opponent rather than do something.
In EP 122 he also did not create a strategy, he casually understood the pattern of attacks of the enemy and managed to deflect of his blows.

What I mean is that in the manga, in FT saga, he did not train in RoSaT just to increase his strength as he did in the anime, he actually tried to think of something to defeat his enemies, in addition to minimizing the energy expenditure of SSB .
Against Merged Zamasu he did not try this strategy because the enemy was much stronger and it would not work

And that's exactly what I'm complaining about. In the anime, Vegeta was defeated several times because of his arrogance, but this does not seem to help the character evolve into anything. He does exactly the same thing against other enemies and loses, does not show a different personality, like you said.
In fact, mocking opponents is different from underestimating or attacking without thinking. It is Vegeta's characteristic to play with his opponents, but acting dumb and foolish does not make sense.
Even Goku is arrogant at times when he says that the enemy can not defeat him, or when he tells the gods to bring all the warriors they can to him, saying that he would defeat them all.

Just to clear up, I'm specifically referring to how the manga handles Vegeta's character being humbled, and not actually his potrayal in the manga, which I personally prefer over his anime counter-part.

I don't believe there is anything inherently wrong with Vegeta serving as a ladder for other villains, however, I also believe its important to level Vegeta's major defeats out with victories in order to show him as someone having some competence, which I think both versions do a decent job of.

My problem with the manga Hit fight are a little more extensive than it simply unnecessarily and instantly making the main protagonist completely irrelevant in one chapter of it happening. I also dislike it, because very little focus was actually given to the fight, it was kind of treated like an after-thought, and not the main event in the manga, hell, there is nothing even particularly memorable about the beat down itself in the manga. It just kind of happened.
In the anime, the fight was given a lot of attention and care to it, it was very much the main event, and the primary focus was on the fight, not the semantics in the peanut gallery. Also, I fail to see how Vegeta strategized more in the manga version of that fight than the anime(thinking of how to attack is still strategizing). Overall, it just has a far stronger and memorable presentation.

My main problem with the manga version of the Hit fight, was that Vegeta's defeat was defeated with kid gloves. Instead of being a crushing defeat against an opponent out of his league. It was an avoidable defeat against a fairly nothing opponent who Vegeta could beat effortlessly at full-power. Which in turn, kind of rendered the entire point of the tournament, showing off how strong characters from other universes are, completely superfluous, by making literally nobody a even a slight match for Goku or Vegeta. And the thing is, it all felt like it was done in order to "save" face for Vegeta.

Also, what's the point of having a strategy that safes energy expenditure, only for you to ditch and use your energy inefficiently when fighting a stronger opponent? It seems counter-intuitive to me.

Your last point is a little funny to me, since in Vegeta's fight against Jiren, and his rematch against Black, he actually does exactly what your saying he isn't doing after his defeats. After his defeat against Black, he became powerful enough to neutralize his energy blade. Against Jiren, he observed how he fought in order to form an adequate counter-attack against him. I don't understand how these things are just him charging in blindly.

My last point related to how people define treatment, as how defeats and victories or handed out to characters, and I retorted, why aren't more people angry when characters like Vegeta trash their opponents and berate them? If its a bad thing, then why is it okay for it to happen to other characters besides Vegeta?

[TBMx]

Episode 38 wasn't fondly remembered. It was remembered for being idiotic, having base Goku tank blows that levelled SSB Vegeta. With fanboys desperately trying to excuse it by saying Hit held back moar with Goku for no reason at all. It was one of the worst instances of the anime cheapening SSB.

[Whatever]

An issue I have with Vegeta in the anime is that, unless he is directly interacting with his family or Cabba, he often acts like his Cell-era self. The manga does a much better job of portraying the Vegeta we were left with at the end of the Boo arc. He proposes merging to Goku. He's generally warmer to other characters. Toyotaro succeeds at portraying Vegeta's stubbornness and determination without regressing the character, which is something that some anime writers appear to struggle with.

Did you mistake manga Vegeta for GT Vegeta by any chance?
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[TheSaiyanGod]

Well, while its not particularly uneffective, I don't think you can deny the effectiveness of its use in the anime, with 38 and 56, specifically Vegeta's beatdowns in those episodes, being some of the most fondly remembered episodes of the show.

Vegeta's defeat against Hit didn't necessarily serve to progress his character, and it didn't necessarily need to. The entire point of that fight was to establish how much of threat Hit was to the main cast, and the anime executed this idea droves better than the manga, with a far greater emphasis placed on the fight itself serving to really sell how dangerous Hit was.

TBH, isn't Vegeta more analytical in the anime than in the manga? I mean, in the Hit fight, the anime actually bothered to show Vegeta formulating multiple strategies and methods of attack to no avail, and while its true he does rush in, he still tries to form strategies ahead of the confrontation, such as in 122, and to a lesser extent 64.

If anything, Vegeta in the manga is the one that gives up on strategy to focus on raw power, in the fight against Black, he had a winning strategy, but he dropped it immediately as soon as he Zamasu fused. If anything, he is just as prone to bursts of unadulterated anger as his anime counter-part, or don't you remember when he lost his head against Magetta because his strategy failed?

I don't understand what your problem with characters being humiliated is, when that is something Vegeta does literally all the time in fights his dominating. Vegeta's big mouth is what makes him being the receiving end some of the time so satisfying, especially when done right.

Why don't I here people complain when characters get humiliated in their battles with Vegeta, someone who constantly berates and humiliates his foe as he mercilessly beats them down? If its not a problem when Vegeta does it, it shouldn't be a problem when its done in turn to Vegeta.

These episodes are not some of the most remembered of the series (according to you) because of the beatings of Vegeta, but because of the whole set
And yes, that has become something of a mass and it is not an obligation or good point that Vegeta serves as a ladder for villains.

In the manga, we also saw Vegeta being defeated by Hitto doing nothing and did not know that this was because of the SSB's energy expenditure. This only happened in the next chapter, which was released a month later. So Vegeta's defeat in the manga also emphasizes Hitto's power.
In fact, it was revealed that Vegeta could have beaten Hitto if he did not use SSB against Kyabe in the same chapter that Goku overcomes Hitto, so we would know that Hitto was not that powerful anyway.

In EP 38, Vegeta's "strategies" consisted basically of attacking the enemy, but only in different ways. The only really different thing he tried was at the end, while trying to hold Hitto to hit a blow, but even that was not effective. We saw him analyze the opponent rather than do something.
In EP 122 he also did not create a strategy, he casually understood the pattern of attacks of the enemy and managed to deflect of his blows.

What I mean is that in the manga, in FT saga, he did not train in RoSaT just to increase his strength as he did in the anime, he actually tried to think of something to defeat his enemies, in addition to minimizing the energy expenditure of SSB .
Against Merged Zamasu he did not try this strategy because the enemy was much stronger and it would not work

And that's exactly what I'm complaining about. In the anime, Vegeta was defeated several times because of his arrogance, but this does not seem to help the character evolve into anything. He does exactly the same thing against other enemies and loses, does not show a different personality, like you said.
In fact, mocking opponents is different from underestimating or attacking without thinking. It is Vegeta's characteristic to play with his opponents, but acting dumb and foolish does not make sense.
Even Goku is arrogant at times when he says that the enemy can not defeat him, or when he tells the gods to bring all the warriors they can to him, saying that he would defeat them all.

Just to clear up, I'm specifically referring to how the manga handles Vegeta's character being humbled, and not actually his potrayal in the manga, which I personally prefer over his anime counter-part.

I don't believe there is anything inherently wrong with Vegeta serving as a ladder for other villains, however, I also believe its important to level Vegeta's major defeats out with victories in order to show him as someone having some competence, which I think both versions do a decent job of.

My problem with the manga Hit fight are a little more extensive than it simply unnecessarily and instantly making the main protagonist completely irrelevant in one chapter of it happening. I also dislike it, because very little focus was actually given to the fight, it was kind of treated like an after-thought, and not the main event in the manga, hell, there is nothing even particularly memorable about the beat down itself in the manga. It just kind of happened.
In the anime, the fight was given a lot of attention and care to it, it was very much the main event, and the primary focus was on the fight, not the semantics in the peanut gallery. Also, I fail to see how Vegeta strategized more in the manga version of that fight than the anime(thinking of how to attack is still strategizing). Overall, it just has a far stronger and memorable presentation.

My main problem with the manga version of the Hit fight, was that Vegeta's defeat was defeated with kid gloves. Instead of being a crushing defeat against an opponent out of his league. It was an avoidable defeat against a fairly nothing opponent who Vegeta could beat effortlessly at full-power. Which in turn, kind of rendered the entire point of the tournament, showing off how strong characters from other universes are, completely superfluous, by making literally nobody a even a slight match for Goku or Vegeta. And the thing is, it all felt like it was done in order to "save" face for Vegeta.

Also, what's the point of having a strategy that safes energy expenditure, only for you to ditch and use your energy inefficiently when fighting a stronger opponent? It seems counter-intuitive to me.

Your last point is a little funny to me, since in Vegeta's fight against Jiren, and his rematch against Black, he actually does exactly what your saying he isn't doing after his defeats. After his defeat against Black, he became powerful enough to neutralize his energy blade. Against Jiren, he observed how he fought in order to form an adequate counter-attack against him. I don't understand how these things are just him charging in blindly.

My last point related to how people define treatment, as how defeats and victories or handed out to characters, and I retorted, why aren't more people angry when characters like Vegeta trash their opponents and berate them? If its a bad thing, then why is it okay for it to happen to other characters besides Vegeta?

I understand your criticism of the manga Hitto (although for me, it was a more coherent version than in the anime, in which Hitto simply conveniently increased his time skip to match his opponents), but the point here is not this .
Much of what you said about the fight in the anime has received '' attention and care, '' refers only to that part of Goku, in which he uses Kaioken to '' overcome '' Hitto.

And I did not say Vegeta was more strategic against Hitto in the manga, I'm referring in general, and the biggest example of this is in Future Trunks saga.
But anyway, even in the anime Vegeta did not create any great strategy against Hitto.

The fact that Goku had beaten Hitto with SSB was already something that showed Vegeta was also more powerful, nor did Goku himself have to say that. So that was not something done to save Vegeta's face.

Zamasu was not only stronger than Goku and Vegeta, he was MUCH stronger.
So strong that it deactivated both SSGs only with one attack. Vegeta's strategy was to maintain SSG and use SSB in short bursts, but against Zamasu this would not work because God could not handle any of his attacks, the option was to go with everything.

Vegeta did not create a strategy against Jiren, he just casually was able to understand his pattern of attacks and so he managed to deflect.
Against Black, he only became powerful enough that Black's attacks would not take effect, that was not strategy either.

And I'm just saying that. it's senseless Vegeta underestimate the strength of your opponents or else attack without thinking. This is something he should no longer do, after all his defeats. The point is not that '' it's okay to happen to other characters besides Vegeta, '' the point is that Vegeta's personality is contradictory in the anime when that happens.
But if he is talking about mocking his opponents, this is something common not only of Vegeta, but of several others.

An issue I have with Vegeta in the anime is that, unless he is directly interacting with his family or Cabba, he often acts like his Cell-era self. The manga does a much better job of portraying the Vegeta we were left with at the end of the Boo arc. He proposes merging to Goku. He's generally warmer to other characters. Toyotaro succeeds at portraying Vegeta's stubbornness and determination without regressing the character, which is something that some anime writers appear to struggle with.

Did you mistake manga Vegeta for GT Vegeta by any chance?
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]

After this, Vegeta who has the initiative to do the merger with Goku, even refusing initially.

[spoiler][/spoiler]