So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

Raphael_Z
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:59 pm

So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by Raphael_Z » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:52 pm

From a Marketing point of view, it makes total sense to have Vegeta attain those forms in order to sell more toys and other merchandise (I think that a Magenta Haired Vegeta and a Long Blond Hair Vegeta toy would be easier to sell than a SSBE toy).

In the anime, I was shocked to see how Vegeta basically went from SSJ2 to SSGSS while "skipping" SSJ3 and SSG (yes, I know SSGSS is unrelated to those two forms but still). I was half expecting a training arc between BOG and ROF in which Vegeta attains SSG and then SSGSS but sadly it happened off-screen.

To make things more strange, in the Manga Vegeta uses the same strategy against Goku Black (switching between SSG and SSGSS mid-fight) that Anime Goku would use later against Dyspo in the TOP so it is canon that Vegeta has achieved SSG (at least in the Manga).

User avatar
TheSaiyanGod
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1436
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:09 pm

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:24 am

Theoretically, Vegeta also has the SSG in the anime.

In EP 27, when Vegeta becomes SSB, Muten Roshi states that Vegeta also gained the power of Super Saiyan God, and Goku confirms, also saying that he got it on his own. Note, Roshi says '' SSG power '' and not '' SSB ´pwer '', so Vegeta really does have the power of SSG in the anime (which is something obvious, I think). But I just do not understand why TOEI decided to make Goku use that form again in ToP, but not give her to Vegeta too, considering he had several moments to use it, I just do not understand. Maybe leave that unique form to Goku?

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Well, about SSJ3, since the end of the Boo saga, in which Vegeta realized the weaknesses of this transformation, he never seemed to me very interested in obtaining it.
He even managed to overcome this form being only with SSJ2, with a rage boost. Then, after gaining SSG power, the SSJ3 became completely obsolete for Vegeta, as he had much stronger transformations and less energy.

But I believe that Vegeta has total conditions to learn this transformation, and I would like to have seen it show it against Future Trunks on EP 54, it was a good opportunity

User avatar
Pantalones
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1429
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:30 pm

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by Pantalones » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:35 am

Yeah, as far as SSj3 it seems like he skipped it after seeing the energy drain Goku suffered and judging the form to be near useless in a living body. His "mutated SSj2" that he got when Beerus slapped Bulma seems to be better in every way than SSj3 anyway, assuming it's something he can still use after that scene rather than a one-time rage boost like the brief flares of power Gohan used to get when he was a kid.

No idea why they didn't have Vegeta use Super Saiyan God in the anime, though, especially after they finally brought it back for Goku. Just seems really odd to me... would make more sense if they either stuck with "red God form is ritual only, but God-like power and the Blue form can be gained through training with Whis" (like what they seemed to be doing up through Resurrection F, back when base forms were super strong and neither Goku or Vegeta used golden Super Saiyan anymore) or went with "both of them learned how to use the red God form AND the blue one" (like the manga.) Instead we got this weird half-and-half where Goku can still use the God transformation (but just... didn't?... until almost the end of the show), while Vegeta gained godly power but apparently not the SSj God transformation itself.

User avatar
Baggie_Saiyan
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10275
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:22 pm
Location: Atlantis.

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:22 am

SS3 is a dud of a transformation and SSG wasn't decided for Vegeta so doesn't make sense to go back and waste time designing an older form.

But personally both forms look hella ugly on Vegeta.

As for marketing SS3 already gets marketed thanks to Heroes and VG's but not much and SS3 isn't that popular in Japan in general, as for SSG the marketing department don't care for that form anyway if he got it in the anime wouldn't have made a difference.

So yeah seemed pointless in the anime giving these forms to Vegeta, nothing was gonna change storywise and more than like nothing was gonna happen externally either.

User avatar
szopman
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:56 am
Location: Poland

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by szopman » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:08 am

In Vegeta's case using SSJ3 would be pointless and it really woudln't make sense. Why using SSJ3 when you can use mastered SSJ2 which is superior to SSJ3? It's like using USSJ instead of mastering SSJ1 or SSJ2 level-up.

About SSJGod, I think they should have used it in the anime ;/ It sucks that they didn't, especially that he uses it in the manga, and moreover, he invents the idea of switching between God and Blue. But at least he transformed into SSJGod in the manga :)

User avatar
mute_proxy
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1104
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:09 am
Location: Planet 4032-877

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by mute_proxy » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:52 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote:In EP 27, when Vegeta becomes SSB, Muten Roshi states that Vegeta also gained the power of Super Saiyan God, and Goku confirms, also saying that he got it on his own. Note, Roshi says '' SSG power '' and not '' SSB ´pwer '', so Vegeta really does have the power of SSG in the anime (which is something obvious, I think). But I just do not understand why TOEI decided to make Goku use that form again in ToP, but not give her to Vegeta too, considering he had several moments to use it, I just do not understand. Maybe leave that unique form to Goku?

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
The SSG power is God Ki, the only thing they witnessed of such before was SSGod, that's why they worded it that way, it does not mean he has the form in the anime.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by sintzu » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:12 am

Ssj3 isn't easy to animate which is why we didn't even see Goku use it much. One of the writers on twitter said Vegeta could use SsjG (this was after he showed it in the manga so he could've been talking about this) but I think they decided to give him his own stronger form instead of going backwards to an old form Goku had.

I do think we'll eventually see him use Ssj3 in the manga, maybe as soon as his next encounter with Cabba in the tournament.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Baggie_Saiyan
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10275
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:22 pm
Location: Atlantis.

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:28 am

sintzu wrote:Ssj3 isn't easy to animate which is why we didn't even see Goku use it much. One of the writers on twitter said Vegeta could use SsjG (this was after he showed it in the manga so he could've been talking about this) but I think they decided to give him his own stronger form instead of going backwards to an old form Goku had.

I do think we'll eventually see him use Ssj3 in the manga, maybe as soon as his next encounter with Cabba in the tournament.
That and probably the fact the form doesn't seem it's that popular is probably why we hardly see it. Any SS3 Merch just gathers dust and available on the cheap.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by sintzu » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:38 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:That and probably the fact the form doesn't seem it's that popular is probably why we hardly see it. Any SS3 Merch just gathers dust and available on the cheap.
I always thought it was the most popular one based on how much Heroes pushed it by giving it to everyone.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Simere
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1463
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:28 pm

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by Simere » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:01 pm

Vegeta skipping SS3 because it was weak is nonsense. You don't need endurance against an opponent who can't go the distance with you, which SS2 wouldn't have been able to do. He "skipped" it because before he acquired it, assuming he could have, a better way of attaining power presented itself.

User avatar
Baggie_Saiyan
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10275
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:22 pm
Location: Atlantis.

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:21 pm

sintzu wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:That and probably the fact the form doesn't seem it's that popular is probably why we hardly see it. Any SS3 Merch just gathers dust and available on the cheap.
I always thought it was the most popular one based on how much Heroes pushed it by giving it to everyone.
It's something I have noticed for a while. Most recent example was back in January a SS3 came out part of a WCF set and it's only worth ¥500 all the others are worth at least over double that.

Something else I observed is SS4 only seems to be popular with Gogeta in terms of how merch does. Which is why these last years SS4 Goku & Vegeta have mostly been pushed high end aiming for collectors.

SSGSS and Mastered UI though. Super popular yeah even 3 years after it's debut SSGSS remains popular. It's been the main key visual art form for the last 4 arcs of DBS! Anything UI is flying off the shelves and keep going up in price.

SS is losing itself though folks just don't give a shit about it anymore it seems. SSG is barely marketed so can't really draw anything about that.

Folliwing merch these last few years has certainly been interesting seeing all these patterns form.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by sintzu » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:15 pm

Simere wrote:Vegeta skipping SS3 because it was weak is nonsense. You don't need endurance against an opponent who can't go the distance with you, which SS2 wouldn't have been able to do. He "skipped" it because before he acquired it, assuming he could have, a better way of attaining power presented itself.
In-Universe Vegeta can most likely use it as his power is far beyond what's required for it.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
SingleFringe&Sparks
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1642
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:55 pm
Location: Mt. Paozu/East District

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:24 pm

I always assumed there was no narrative purpose or room for it, as if he got it after the Buu arc it would be useless against Beerus anyway. Maybe they could have addressed it in-universe though. As for SSG I figured the aesthetic and process didn't fit Vegeta's character to market. The design of him being skinnier with big eyes doesn't look right on him. In universe they could have said he rejected the SSG from the requirements and used tougher training with Whis to make SSB first. The same way how SS4 technically did not require a pregrown tail through a silly way for Goku, you just needed a mass amount of Brutes waves to get the tails cells to regenerate. Though with SSG it would be harder to consider a logical loophole due to how specific (and lame) SSG's requirements are.

Even though I like Goku's SS3, the same design just doesn't look good at all on Vegeta. When it is done in media, it makes him look deformed to me.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

User avatar
batistabus
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1640
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:55 pm
Location: Western Massachusetts

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by batistabus » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:02 pm

Super Saiyan 3 is an unnatural form that cannot be achieved through normal means. Goku was able to obtain it in the afterlife where ki and time are not as much of an issue, and Gotenks was able to use it by borrowing time from Fusion. While Vegeta is certainly strong enough to be able to become a Super Saiyan 3, he was never in the right circumstance to activate it. The same goes for Future Trunks in DBS manga, who was able to obtain a Super Saiyan 2 power on par with Goku's Super Saiyan 3 despite the lack of actual transformation.

As for SSG in the anime, there's no in-universe explanation as far as I understand it. Some speculate that since he learned how to use God ki without the SSG ritual, he doesn't have that form, but that's nothing more than head-cannon. Going with the anime's continuity, though, I'd say that's as good of an explanation as any.

User avatar
Simere
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1463
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:28 pm

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by Simere » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:07 pm

batistabus wrote:Super Saiyan 3 is an unnatural form that cannot be achieved through normal means. Goku was able to obtain it in the afterlife where ki and time are not as much of an issue, and Gotenks was able to use it by borrowing time from Fusion. While Vegeta is certainly strong enough to be able to become a Super Saiyan 3, he was never in the right circumstance to activate it. The same goes for Future Trunks in DBS manga, who was able to obtain a Super Saiyan 2 power on par with Goku's Super Saiyan 3 despite the lack of actual transformation.
If SS3 can't be attained through normal means, why would Goku suggest it's possible for Caulifla to attain?

User avatar
Kenneth La Torre
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: Florida

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:04 pm

SSG can easily be argued as a form vegeta does have in the anime. About ssj3, guess it didnt cross the mind of anyone to give it to vegeta. After super saiyan god/blue, why have vegeta achieve an astronomically weaker form?

User avatar
Grimlock
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6145
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Conton City

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by Grimlock » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:05 pm

batistabus wrote:Super Saiyan 3 is an unnatural form that cannot be achieved through normal means. Goku was able to obtain it in the afterlife where ki and time are not as much of an issue, and Gotenks was able to use it by borrowing time from Fusion. While Vegeta is certainly strong enough to be able to become a Super Saiyan 3, he was never in the right circumstance to activate it. The same goes for Future Trunks in DBS manga, who was able to obtain a Super Saiyan 2 power on par with Goku's Super Saiyan 3 despite the lack of actual transformation.

As for SSG in the anime, there's no in-universe explanation as far as I understand it. Some speculate that since he learned how to use God ki without the SSG ritual, he doesn't have that form, but that's nothing more than head-cannon. Going with the anime's continuity, though, I'd say that's as good of an explanation as any.
Vegeta not getting Super Saiyan 3 has no in-universe explanation either. What you said is a known, old and baseless theory. Future Trunks didn't know about Super Saiyan 3, that's why he didn't achieve before.

User avatar
TheUltimateNinja
I Live Here
Posts: 4020
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:39 pm

He doesn't have the skill to obtain SSJ3.

User avatar
SingleFringe&Sparks
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1642
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:55 pm
Location: Mt. Paozu/East District

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:15 pm

Simere wrote:
batistabus wrote:Super Saiyan 3 is an unnatural form that cannot be achieved through normal means. Goku was able to obtain it in the afterlife where ki and time are not as much of an issue, and Gotenks was able to use it by borrowing time from Fusion. While Vegeta is certainly strong enough to be able to become a Super Saiyan 3, he was never in the right circumstance to activate it. The same goes for Future Trunks in DBS manga, who was able to obtain a Super Saiyan 2 power on par with Goku's Super Saiyan 3 despite the lack of actual transformation.
If SS3 can't be attained through normal means, why would Goku suggest it's possible for Caulifla to attain?
It could be ignorance in the writing again, or Goku just being ignorant to this in-universe in his general confidence in potential or that he could mean it generally if they found the means to for it, they can get that far. Though not without audience groans and eyerolls.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

User avatar
Marlowe89
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:30 pm

Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by Marlowe89 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:32 pm

I wouldn't be too surprised if Vegeta had access to every Super Saiyan form at this point, including Super Saiyan 3, considering that he found a way to obtain Super Saiyan God in the manga and presumably the anime as well. The show could have opted out of displaying these forms for any number of reasons -- stylistic choices, scripting decisions, or maybe even a preference of the animation staff.

I mean, we barely get to see Goku use Super Saiyan 3 in the anime, and its last appearance hilariously wasn't even animated and only lasted for a few seconds.

Post Reply