So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by HeroR » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:10 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
sintzu wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:That and probably the fact the form doesn't seem it's that popular is probably why we hardly see it. Any SS3 Merch just gathers dust and available on the cheap.
I always thought it was the most popular one based on how much Heroes pushed it by giving it to everyone.
It's something I have noticed for a while. Most recent example was back in January a SS3 came out part of a WCF set and it's only worth ¥500 all the others are worth at least over double that.

Something else I observed is SS4 only seems to be popular with Gogeta in terms of how merch does. Which is why these last years SS4 Goku & Vegeta have mostly been pushed high end aiming for collectors.

SSGSS and Mastered UI though. Super popular yeah even 3 years after it's debut SSGSS remains popular. It's been the main key visual art form for the last 4 arcs of DBS! Anything UI is flying off the shelves and keep going up in price.

SS is losing itself though folks just don't give a shit about it anymore it seems. SSG is barely marketed so can't really draw anything about that.

Folliwing merch these last few years has certainly been interesting seeing all these patterns form.
I think Super Saiyan 3 is fairly popular since as pointed out, Heroes gave Super Saiyan 3 to everyone while skipping Super Saiyan 2. Also, Dokkan Battle has an entire Category called Super Saiyan 3 lead by Super Saiyan 3 Bardock and it's one of the most powerful teams in the game. In comparison, there are only three Super Saiyan 4s: Goku, Vegeta, and Gogeta and none of these characters got new cards. In comparison, there are dozens of Super Saiyan 3 Gokus, Bardocks, Gotenks, and even Super Saiyan 3 Trunks and Gohan.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:35 am

sintzu wrote:
TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote:Before he surpassed SS3's power with his SS2 rage boost, aside from the rather obvious out of universe explanation, why Vegeta was never able to obtain SS3... I dunno. Again, maybe because he was aware of the weaknesses of the form (similar to SS 3rd grade?).
I haven't seen the Buu arc in awhile so I could be wrong but didn't he say it was useless after Goku dropped out of it durin the fight against Kid buu ?
Did he say this in the manga or the anime? I'm not seeing it in the manga but it's possible I've overlooked it.

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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by jplaya2023 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:49 am

SSJ3 cannot be obtained in the living world unless you're in a space where time operates differently

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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by jplaya2023 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:15 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote:Theoretically, Vegeta also has the SSG in the anime.

In EP 27, when Vegeta becomes SSB, Muten Roshi states that Vegeta also gained the power of Super Saiyan God, and Goku confirms, also saying that he got it on his own. Note, Roshi says '' SSG power '' and not '' SSB ´pwer '', so Vegeta really does have the power of SSG in the anime (which is something obvious, I think). But I just do not understand why TOEI decided to make Goku use that form again in ToP, but not give her to Vegeta too, considering he had several moments to use it, I just do not understand. Maybe leave that unique form to Goku?

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Well, about SSJ3, since the end of the Boo saga, in which Vegeta realized the weaknesses of this transformation, he never seemed to me very interested in obtaining it.
He even managed to overcome this form being only with SSJ2, with a rage boost. Then, after gaining SSG power, the SSJ3 became completely obsolete for Vegeta, as he had much stronger transformations and less energy.

But I believe that Vegeta has total conditions to learn this transformation, and I would like to have seen it show it against Future Trunks on EP 54, it was a good opportunity
It's literally impossible to obtain ssj red on your own knowing the information we do know.

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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by sintzu » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:17 am

jplaya2023 wrote:SSJ3 cannot be obtained in the living world unless you're in a space where time operates differently
For the 100th time, Ssj3 according to Toriyama himself is just a powered up version of Ssj1. Where on earth did you and others get that it's some "special" form ?
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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by jplaya2023 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:23 am

sintzu wrote:
jplaya2023 wrote:SSJ3 cannot be obtained in the living world unless you're in a space where time operates differently
For the 100th time, Ssj3 according to Toriyama himself is just a powered up version of Ssj1. Where on earth did you and others get that it's some "special" form ?
he said that after the fact years later. When SSJ3 was first introduced in the manga it was "special" because how it was portrayed.

King Kaiou told goku not to use it because it would use up his remaining time on earth because of the power behind it.

Dead goku while training the boys was still visibly tired after using ssj3 against boo.

Goku while fighting chibi buu tried to power up and have vegeta fight him said he's losing chi and that ssj3 isn't a technique for the living world. Goku had to be dead to obtain the power of the form

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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by sintzu » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:48 am

jplaya2023 wrote:When SSJ3 was first introduced in the manga it was "special" because how it was portrayed.

King Kaiou told goku not to use it because it would use up his remaining time on earth because of the power behind it.

Dead goku while training the boys was still visibly tired after using ssj3 against boo.

Goku while fighting chibi buu tried to power up and have vegeta fight him said he's losing chi and that ssj3 isn't a technique for the living world. Goku had to be dead to obtain the power of the form
Ssj3 was portrayed as a hard form to use while being alive but that doesn't mean it can't be reached.

If we're going to go by the original manga alone, Vegeta took up to 7 years to reach Ssj2 without any special training so if we go by that then maybe it would take him 10-15 years to reach it had he not trained with Whis.
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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by Grimlock » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:27 pm

jplaya2023 wrote:SSJ3 cannot be obtained in the living world unless you're in a space where time operates differently
Care to provide a source?

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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by sintzu » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:48 pm

Grimlock wrote:
jplaya2023 wrote:SSJ3 cannot be obtained in the living world unless you're in a space where time operates differently
Care to provide a source?
He can't because it's a fan theory that was put to rest by Toriyama.

Ssj3 was introduced as a hard form to reach and hold, nothing more. Also keep in mind that the original Ssj was introduced like that but look at it now. If Goku and Vegeta are able to hold forms that far surpass it then it's safe to say it's child's play for them at this point.
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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by jplaya2023 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:04 pm

sintzu wrote:
jplaya2023 wrote:When SSJ3 was first introduced in the manga it was "special" because how it was portrayed.

King Kaiou told goku not to use it because it would use up his remaining time on earth because of the power behind it.

Dead goku while training the boys was still visibly tired after using ssj3 against boo.

Goku while fighting chibi buu tried to power up and have vegeta fight him said he's losing chi and that ssj3 isn't a technique for the living world. Goku had to be dead to obtain the power of the form
Ssj3 was portrayed as a hard form to use while being alive but that doesn't mean it can't be reached.

If we're going to go by the original manga alone, Vegeta took up to 7 years to reach Ssj2 without any special training so if we go by that then maybe it would take him 10-15 years to reach it had he not trained with Whis.
vegeta reached ssj2 in the 7 year gap, it could've been a year after goku died or year 4. We really don't know. We do know he achieved ssj2 and mastered the form in the 7 year gap and babidee's power made him equal to goku

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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by jplaya2023 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:05 pm

Grimlock wrote:
jplaya2023 wrote:SSJ3 cannot be obtained in the living world unless you're in a space where time operates differently
Care to provide a source?
yes read your manga.

read the quote i had before this.

goku talks about ssj3 not being a form for the living realm, king kaiou says ssj3 will drain's goku remaining time on earth, meaning that while being alive ssj3 is a dangerous technique.

i would post scans put this board frowns upon that.

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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by Grimlock » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:12 pm

sintzu wrote:He can't because it's a fan theory that was put to rest by Toriyama.
Most of the time I ask people here to provide a source is a rhetorical question. I know they can't, I'm just curious about how people will reply.
jplaya2023 wrote:yes read your manga.
I've read it and nowhere in there it is said that "SSJ3 cannot be obtained in the living world unless you're in a space where time operates differently".
jplaya2023 wrote:goku talks about ssj3 not being a form for the living realm, king kaiou says ssj3 will drain's goku remaining time on earth, meaning that while being alive ssj3 is a dangerous technique.
Don't remember Goku saying that. It's just that while in the living realm, it would consume his energy, which would also consume his time while on Earth because Goku is not meant to be there. He has a time, a time that ends if his energy drops drastically, it's just that. And yes, Super Saiyan 3 drains a lot of energy but that doesn't mean it cannot be obtained in the living world.

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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by Whatever » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:51 pm

sintzu wrote:
mute_proxy wrote:In the anime it seems he just didn't, or never bothered after SSB.
Wouldn't he automatically get the red weaker form if he has the stronger blue one ? If you have 100$ then you also have 90$.
Nope,you need to have ssj1 to get ssjb but you thats not the case for ssjg.
Its closer to that you don't need super saiyan grade 3 to get ssj2,despite ssj grade 3 being easier to get.

Vegeta pretty much told Cabba that he can get ssjb if he trains hard enough.
In the anime ssjg has remained special in how its achieved,on top of it being temporary outside of Goku being Goku and being the special snowflake he is,he got to keep it.
In the manga both forms can be achieved through training and even then Vegeta got the ssjb form first without ssjg.
Also lol at ssj3 being hard to get,Gotenks got it as a joke,its no different than ssj1 being treated as special when it first happened.

That being said Vegeta has no reason to get SSJ3 or SSJG in the anime.That would like giving Gohan ssj grade 2 and 3.

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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by Luffy123 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:10 am

SSG because Toriyama would think it looks ugly on him so he decides to simplify SSG and just made it blue
SS3 - first no point and 2nd SS3 was literally just a plot device for goku to beat Buu i doubt Toriyama really put that much thought to it, 3rd annoying to animate and drawing it be a pain.

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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by OLKv3 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:44 am

TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote:
sintzu wrote:
TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote:Before he surpassed SS3's power with his SS2 rage boost, aside from the rather obvious out of universe explanation, why Vegeta was never able to obtain SS3... I dunno. Again, maybe because he was aware of the weaknesses of the form (similar to SS 3rd grade?).
I haven't seen the Buu arc in awhile so I could be wrong but didn't he say it was useless after Goku dropped out of it durin the fight against Kid buu ?
Did he say this in the manga or the anime? I'm not seeing it in the manga but it's possible I've overlooked it.
He didn't say it in either.

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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by batistabus » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:27 am

sintzu wrote:Ssj3 according to Toriyama himself is just a powered up version of Ssj1.
You keep saying this, but that comment doesn't prove your point at all. Of course Super Saiyan 3 is a powered up version of SS1, just like SSB is a powered up version of SSG. Stop treating this like some big reveal or definitive statement on the nature of Super Saiyan 3.

In that comment (if we're indeed thinking of the same interview), Toriyama was suggesting that - rather than focus on fancy transformations - it would be more efficient to bring out the best of Super Saiyan (1). That's fine, even if slightly problematic. This statement was made before Resurrection F. At that time, it seemed that the plan was for Goku to absorb God ki without the need of a transformation. Toriyama clearly disregarded this with the introduction of Super Saiyan Blue. Additionally, saying that mastering Super Saiyan is the best option goes against the entire point of SS2, which is already the result of that concept. Toyotaro's frequent use of Super Saiyan 2 in the manga acknowledges this.

From what I understand about Toriyama, when he was making this statement, he wanted to take attention away from fancy transformations. When he needed to expand the story even further, he found himself falling back on them once again, but gave them incredibly simple/familiar designs. Saying Super Saiyan 3 is just a powered up version of Super Saiyan 1 simply suggests that similar power can be gained without the need of such a transformation. We see this to be the case with Vegeta in Battle of Gods, as well as Trunks in the Future Trunks arc.

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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by Bergamo » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:13 pm

batistabus wrote:
sintzu wrote:Ssj3 according to Toriyama himself is just a powered up version of Ssj1.
You keep saying this, but that comment doesn't prove your point at all. Of course Super Saiyan 3 is a powered up version of SS1, just like SSB is a powered up version of SSG. Stop treating this like some big reveal or definitive statement on the nature of Super Saiyan 3.

In that comment (if we're indeed thinking of the same interview), Toriyama was suggesting that - rather than focus on fancy transformations - it would be more efficient to bring out the best of Super Saiyan (1). That's fine, even if slightly problematic. This statement was made before Resurrection F. At that time, it seemed that the plan was for Goku to absorb God ki without the need of a transformation. Toriyama clearly disregarded this with the introduction of Super Saiyan Blue. Additionally, saying that mastering Super Saiyan is the best option goes against the entire point of SS2, which is already the result of that concept. Toyotaro's frequent use of Super Saiyan 2 in the manga acknowledges this.

From what I understand about Toriyama, when he was making this statement, he wanted to take attention away from fancy transformations. When he needed to expand the story even further, he found himself falling back on them once again, but gave them incredibly simple/familiar designs. Saying Super Saiyan 3 is just a powered up version of Super Saiyan 1 simply suggests that similar power can be gained without the need of such a transformation. We see this to be the case with Vegeta in Battle of Gods, as well as Trunks in the Future Trunks arc.
Super Saiyan 2 is only used 3 times in the manga, and none of those times are against a villain.
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Re: So...is there a REAL reason as to why Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 or SSG in the Anime?

Post by Eternal Super Saiyan » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:23 am

After Goku achieved SSJ3 and explained the drawbacks, I suppose there wouldn't be a solid reason for Vegeta to have it and use it. Although there is really no logic in Vegeta never reaching SSJ3 and/or not being able to reach it, which is another topic all by itself. If we're to look all these transformations as a Saiyan's progression in a linear way, Vegeta SHOULD have SSJ3 even if he finds he doesn't need to have it or use it.

Yeah it's actually funny that we never see Vegeta use SSG, though it is implied he indeed has it. But Goku goes back and forth between red and blue like he does between SSJ and SSJ2... Is that necessary? It does make Goku look cool using it I suppose.
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