What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by ToshioWrites » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:54 pm

1. The constant commentary from Krillin, Roshi and Tien. If i were rating this arc on a 1-10 scale, i'd dock it 1 point for constantly being forced to listen to "gokuuuuuh" and tien making obvious statements like "18 don't get eaten by Anilaza" let alone Roshi mentioning stamina or martial arts what seemed like endlessly

2. The constant barrage of "he's tired" , "he has no stamina " , "he's out of energy" esque statements that were followed 2 seconds later by someone transforming or using more power. They should have just never mentioned stamina and instead let that be our headcanon that they should be tired.

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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by Miracles » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:57 pm

BAD FIGHTS, LACK OF TENSION, BAD FIGHTS.

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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by Firebolt » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:07 am

1. Piccolo, Tenshinnhan, and Toppo's lackluster eliminations.
2. Vegeta's frankly asspull power up against Toppo.
3. The outrageous amount of reused animation in 129.
4. Stamina inconsistencies.

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Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

Post by Spider-Man » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:34 am

-The stamina inconsintencies
    -Peanut Gallery
      -Episodes 119 and 126
        -Tien performance
          -Reused animation in certain episode
            -Goku letting his guard down.
            Last edited by Spider-Man on Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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            Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

            Post by MKCSTEALTH » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:38 am

            3) Wasted Character Potential

            With the massive amount of characters introduced, it was a bit of a challenge. However, the characters that got focus did feel generally underwhelming with moments of cool. Most notably: Piccolo, Tien, Kale, Ribrianne, Kahseral, Nigrishi, Cabba, and Frieza. I feel much more could have been done with these characters and I wish more time had been taken to given them more moments (still salty we got no Piccolo/17 Team Up)

            2) Poor Writing

            I think this one honestly speaks for itself. We had a lot of inconsistent moments throughout the arc. While some were explained, it was very poorly done so.

            3) Lack of Tension

            Honestly, when this arc was announced, it wasn't a matter of if, but how U7 would win. Knowing the End of Z wasn't going to be changed, we knew somehow U7 would survive and most likely win. Even down to the wish being predictable.

            But predictable doesn't necessarily mean bad. And while I do have my problems, it's been a great year and I thoroughly loved this arc, even with the problems I had

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            Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

            Post by Asura » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:48 am

            All of the terrible writing decisions, specifically all of the red herrings of the arc. Let's see if we can name them all...
            > Goku's antagonistic attitude in the exhibition matches
            > Krillin actually being important
            > Universe 3's first introduced fighters that get knocked out at the very, very start of the tournament
            > Gohan's new form
            > Goku vs Hit
            > SSJ3 Caulifla/Kale
            > Universe 4 actually being important
            > Those two dudes in stealth actually being important
            > Quitela and Beerus rivalry
            > Freeza's lust for becoming a god
            > Jiren's wish

            Am I missing anything?

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            Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

            Post by wolflonnie » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:31 am

            The freaking peanut gallery. They even managed to ruin the episode where MUI appears.

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            Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

            Post by Marlowe89 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:51 am

            Between the poorly-structured episodic scripting that actually felt disjointed at times, lack of cohesion in general, poorly paced subplots, tournament rules that served absolutely no purpose, inconsistent characterization, one of the worst main antagonists in the franchise, needlessly repetitive dialogue, certain gags that were driven into the ground, completely unconvincing stamina bullshit, plot points that were heavily alluded to and subsequently dropped like last week's laundry, and the often tasteless overreliance on homages to its predecessor series? I'm honestly not even sure where to begin, let alone choose something I hated the most.

            The arc does have its moments - a few of the episodes are actually really good, and the finale in particular is great - but neat character bits sprinkled here and there just aren't going to be enough to carry such an underwhelming story that failed to execute what were admittedly ambitious concepts in a plethora of ways.

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            Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

            Post by JazzMazz » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:07 am

            The Pacing

            The episodic structure and slow ass pacing for this arc really hampered my enjoyment of it. Even though there were genuinely great episodes in there, you had to get through a whole bunch of really awful or mediocre episodes to get to them. Unlike the previous arcs, which had a real brisk pace to them, with lots of things going on between episodes, this was just a real slog to get through, because just 30 episodes of nothing but kind of bland one on ones the majority of the time.

            The writing

            The problem wasn't exactly "too many chefs spoil the broth". It more to do with the fact that there was no head chef's vision behind the arc. Without a series composer to serve as a through line of the story of the arc. Thats why this arc, espicially the tournament, felt so episodic and incongruent with each other. I think this complete lack of over-arching vision really hurt this story in an extremely visible way, and resulted in there being no real through line for the any of the plot points or bits of characterization in the tournament. I know this ties back to the structure, but I think these things are different enough that they can separated.

            Episode 100 and 105

            Episode 100 was awful and epitomized everything bad about Super. Considering its such a landmark episode for the show, its pretty visually disappointing on a whole I have to say, you'd think they would organize it so at least more than 2 people were in the KA department for this episode. The direction is fine for the most part, even though I would say its definitely Karasawa's weaker efforts as director, namely because he took a lot from Movies 8 storyboard. Which nicely leads into my biggest problem with the episode, Kale, and how she is literally nothing but shameless Broly clone that serves to sell merchandise. God, it just becomes painful to watch a show when it becomes so externally obvious the only point of the shows existence is to sell merchandise, and for me, this episode definitely was that.

            The difference between episode 100 and 105, is that the majority of people hated 100 and called it out for the souless merchandising advertisment that it really was, and acknowledged how hollow it was. 105 to me, was very similar to 100 in the sense it was souless husk of an episode with little to no merit to it, however, the main difference is, this episode praised, and I'm a completely taken aback by that fact that people could genuinely think "this is good dragonball". I would probably dislike it less if it weren't so widely liked, but the constant mentions of it as something that Super did right truly just adds to my overall disdain for it. To me its still a horrible lifeless husk of an episode, but its one thats celebrated for some reason, and I just can't for the life of me see why.

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            Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

            Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:37 am

            Nothing, amazing arc. Epitomized everything good about Dragon Ball.

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            Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

            Post by namekiansaiyan » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:32 am

            I have many things I hated but things I found really annoying regarding what happened are

            The eliminations of Piccolo and Tien.

            The Toppo vs Vegeta fight as the way it just turned around was just ridiculous.

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            Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

            Post by Cetra » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:30 am

            Freeza did not do enough in my opinion. The cure spell on Goku and the teamup was awesome but for the guy that he is I would have expected a lot more that would impress me.

            Also I would have made Kafla the penultimate boss. And as Legendary Super Saiyajin 3. Powerful enough that not even Migatte no Goku'i Kizashi Goku can defeat her and he lucks out by the SSJ3 fusion being so draining that she defuses a lot faster. Also she would have problems from the start because she would have been born from a SSJ state fusion. Caulifla and Kafla would not lose immediately after being back, Caulifla would even stay SSJ3 for a while and Kale LSSJ but eventually Migatte no Goku'i is too much for them, then they would defuse for the last few seconds they stay in the ring and their shocked and desperate faces would be the prelude to the tragedy of Universe 6 being erased. Right before they close their eyes and smile, taking it like prideful Saiyajin.
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            Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

            Post by Ki Breaker » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:44 am

            Most of it was bad , in fact, it really came down to surviving that arc..
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            Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

            Post by Grimlock » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:18 am

            • Ten seconds of fight and one minute of dialogue.
            • Lack of tension.
            • Lack of an actual battle royale.
            • Not showing Universes being erased in details.

            And the most important reason:

            • It is another tournament right after other tournament and that in the end it didn't have an impact at all.
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            Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

            Post by Rakurai » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:42 am

            Lack of tension for what is perhaps considered to be the most important survival battle in all of Super.

            Constant pampering to each of the U7 members by giving them one spotlight episode which just doesn't seam well with the narrative that DB has established before. Roshi did not need that much fanservice either.

            Inconsistency in the narrative, especially when it comes to portraying characters' strengths. How many times did Jiren have to get 'serious' before he actually went serious?

            Dropped plot points like Freeza overthrowing the gods, Toppo's Hakai recharge time, SSJ3 Caulifla, etc.

            Oh, this one bugged me more than it should. SSG making a comeback. This transformation really felt out of place after being missing for almost 100 episodes throughout the series.

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            Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

            Post by PFM18 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:37 am

            Well I didn''t hate anything about this arc really. It is a top 3 arc in the franchise IMO so there isn't anything I hated about it. I did dislike some things and thought that it could be better.

            -Wish Vegeta would have achieved the new form against Toppo instead of in an inconsequential sequence against Jiren
            -Piccolo's elimination and overall performance was a disappointment. Would have been cool if he teamed up with 17 at some point or did something a little more significant.
            -Freeza getting absolutely destroyed by Toppo and then getting up the next episode and throwing rocks at him was dumb. Would have preferred if he just stayed down until the end of 130.
            -They fleshed out Jiren's character too late in the arc. I would have preferred if they revealed his wish earlier(or at all) and started showing his character earlier in the tournament.
            -They could have shown the universes actually being erased rather than just the corresponding fighters for that universe.
            -Could have made it more obvious that Goku was holding back against Kale in 100 because apparently people can't catch on.
            -The Krillin recruitment arc stuff was ridiculous. Don't make him seem so strong.
            -119 sucked

            These are kind of nitpicks though. Nothing particularly egregious here that I really hated.

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            Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

            Post by Vegeta_Sama » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:29 am

            Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Nothing, amazing arc. Epitomized everything good about Dragon Ball.
            I'm glad there's more people who feel this way :D
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            Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

            Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:37 am

            I didn't outright "hate" anything the arc offered, but there were many aspects that disappointed me quite a bit:
            - The writing and direction (for the most part) for Episodes 87, 89, 100, 106, 119, 124 and 126
            - The reveal of Universe 7 having only 28 planets inhabited by mortals
            - Universe 10 contributing nothing
            - The mishandling of Ribiranne
            - The terrible treatment Tien received before and during the Tournament Of Power
            - The 48 minute time limit which hindered the structure of the narrative
            - The red herring of Universe 4 having an ace up their sleeve and it leading to nothing
            - The "No flight allowed" stipulation which was almost immediately ignored
            - The complete waste and mismanagement of Hakaishin Toppo in Episode 126
            - The over usage at times of the peanut gallery
            - The mention of Gohan achieving a new form and doing nothing with that statement after that
            - The plot point of Vegeta having nearly no energy left at the end of Episode 126 and then transforming right at the beginning of Episode 127
            - Constantly teasing Kale and Caulifla attaining SSJ3 and then not following through with either character getting the form
            - The Tournament Of Power being reduced to Universe 7 vs Everyone Else after Episode 112
            - Doing a slowburn approach of Jiren's characterization and development

            Despite all these issues I have, I think the Universal Survival arc is the second best arc in all of Dragon Ball.

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            Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

            Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:52 am

            Overall the pacing. If they cut down by 10 episodes, then it would have been better in my opinion. Also how Tien and Buu were used in the arc could have been much better.
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            Re: What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

            Post by Puaru » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:53 pm

            GOHAN.SUCKING.BALLS.

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