New Goku's archenemy update poll

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

Toxin45
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:35 pm

New Goku's archenemy update poll

Post by Toxin45 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:10 am

Since there was already one let's make a vote this time these guys

Frieza
Cell
Majin Buu
Goku Black/Zamasu
King Piccolo/Piccolo Jr.
Vegeta
Dr. Gero
My vote is of course frieza since he is the most recurring villain of the franchise.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: New Goku's archenemy update poll

Post by sintzu » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:23 am

Enemy : Freeza

Rival : Vegeta
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Torturephile
Regular
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:13 pm

Re: New Goku's archenemy update poll

Post by Torturephile » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:26 am

Freeza. Goku will eventually encounter him a third time and so.
From Super episode 113 thread:
MaskedRider wrote:
Torturephile wrote:
hunduel wrote:I liked this episode. I seriously don't know why people hate it.
namekiansaiyan wrote:I seriously don't see why some of you like this episode when nothing happened and was basically filler.
The fandom in a nutshell.
The duality of man.

Zen Yabuki
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:51 pm

Re: New Goku's archenemy update poll

Post by Zen Yabuki » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:38 pm

Pretty obvious it’s Freeza. The rival should be Vegeta but it isn’t exactly written that well

User avatar
Logania
Regular
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:47 am

Re: New Goku's archenemy update poll

Post by Logania » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:56 pm

I would say Freeza, buuuuut after the events of the ToP, I'm gonna say King Piccolo.
"I can't increase my ability through some kind of noisy transformation the way Frost and you Saiyans do. If I wanna become more lethal, I don't have the luxury of cutting corners, I just have to do it the old-fashioned way.

Combat is craft. What matters most is not raw power, but the skill by which you hone it."

Toxin45
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:35 pm

Re: New Goku's archenemy update poll

Post by Toxin45 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:18 pm

Logania wrote:I would say Freeza, buuuuut after the events of the ToP, I'm gonna say King Piccolo.
Nah Frieza is still a villain and King piccolo is reborn into his son piccolo jr who is a good guy now so Frieza is still a bad guy dude. Also King piccolo is dead now and reborn as a good guy now inside his son technically

User avatar
Logania
Regular
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:47 am

Re: New Goku's archenemy update poll

Post by Logania » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:06 pm

Toxin45 wrote:
Logania wrote:I would say Freeza, buuuuut after the events of the ToP, I'm gonna say King Piccolo.
Nah Frieza is still a villain and King piccolo is reborn into his son piccolo jr who is a good guy now so Frieza is still a bad guy dude. Also King piccolo is dead now and reborn as a good guy now inside his son technically
Freeza is a villain, but it's not Goku's most hated arch enemy to me anymore. They've worked together and have shown a lot less bitterness towards one another than, let's say, on Namek.

King Piccolo and Piccolo Jr. are not entirely the same entity. He is the reincarnation, but they're different people, just as Kid Buu and Uub are not entirely the same person, despite being the "same" being originally.

But technicalities aside, unlike Freeza, King Piccolo has never had a change in character or has had moments to lighten the hatred between him and Goku. They fought to the death and then that's it. No friendly banter, no desire of wanting Piccolo to change his ways or to fight again, he was out for blood and it will never change for King Piccolo. It's just more of an arch enemy feeling than Freeza for me.
"I can't increase my ability through some kind of noisy transformation the way Frost and you Saiyans do. If I wanna become more lethal, I don't have the luxury of cutting corners, I just have to do it the old-fashioned way.

Combat is craft. What matters most is not raw power, but the skill by which you hone it."

Toxin45
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:35 pm

Re: New Goku's archenemy update poll

Post by Toxin45 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:26 pm

Logania wrote:
Toxin45 wrote:
Logania wrote:I would say Freeza, buuuuut after the events of the ToP, I'm gonna say King Piccolo.
Nah Frieza is still a villain and King piccolo is reborn into his son piccolo jr who is a good guy now so Frieza is still a bad guy dude. Also King piccolo is dead now and reborn as a good guy now inside his son technically
Freeza is a villain, but it's not Goku's most hated arch enemy to me anymore. They've worked together and have shown a lot less bitterness towards one another than, let's say, on Namek.

King Piccolo and Piccolo Jr. are not entirely the same entity. He is the reincarnation, but they're different people, just as Kid Buu and Uub are not entirely the same person, despite being the "same" being originally.

But technicalities aside, unlike Freeza, King Piccolo has never had a change in character or has had moments to lighten the hatred between him and Goku. They fought to the death and then that's it. No friendly banter, no desire of wanting Piccolo to change his ways or to fight again, he was out for blood and it will never change for King Piccolo. It's just more of an arch enemy feeling than Freeza for me.
Nah King piccolo is gone forever Frieza is still Goku's archenemy because they still don't like each other and Frieza had more recurring appears than king piccolo.

User avatar
Logania
Regular
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:47 am

Re: New Goku's archenemy update poll

Post by Logania » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:14 pm

Toxin45 wrote:
Logania wrote:
Toxin45 wrote: Nah Frieza is still a villain and King piccolo is reborn into his son piccolo jr who is a good guy now so Frieza is still a bad guy dude. Also King piccolo is dead now and reborn as a good guy now inside his son technically
Freeza is a villain, but it's not Goku's most hated arch enemy to me anymore. They've worked together and have shown a lot less bitterness towards one another than, let's say, on Namek.

King Piccolo and Piccolo Jr. are not entirely the same entity. He is the reincarnation, but they're different people, just as Kid Buu and Uub are not entirely the same person, despite being the "same" being originally.

But technicalities aside, unlike Freeza, King Piccolo has never had a change in character or has had moments to lighten the hatred between him and Goku. They fought to the death and then that's it. No friendly banter, no desire of wanting Piccolo to change his ways or to fight again, he was out for blood and it will never change for King Piccolo. It's just more of an arch enemy feeling than Freeza for me.
Nah King piccolo is gone forever Frieza is still Goku's archenemy because they still don't like each other and Frieza had more recurring appears than king piccolo.
Being dead or alive doesn't make an arch enemy status anymore or less valid. Plenty of arch enemies for characters in series are dead or have been dead. It's about them being the most formidable foe for the hero, which for me was and will be King Piccolo.

Freeza WAS his most formidable foe in the series for Goku when back on Namek, but due to Goku's attitude and interactions with him in Super he's been pegged down to second place to me.

He's still Goku's enemy, but it's not as fearsome. He wants Freeza to leave and train so they can fight, he wished Freeza could change so he can be a good sparring partner, they worked and helped each other out in the tournament and even have some little camaraderie with each other in it (like Freeza taking Goku and giving him energy). It's not nearly as bad as it is now compared to King Piccolo and Goku.
"I can't increase my ability through some kind of noisy transformation the way Frost and you Saiyans do. If I wanna become more lethal, I don't have the luxury of cutting corners, I just have to do it the old-fashioned way.

Combat is craft. What matters most is not raw power, but the skill by which you hone it."

Toxin45
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:35 pm

Re: New Goku's archenemy update poll

Post by Toxin45 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:24 pm

Logania wrote:
Toxin45 wrote:
Logania wrote:
Freeza is a villain, but it's not Goku's most hated arch enemy to me anymore. They've worked together and have shown a lot less bitterness towards one another than, let's say, on Namek.

King Piccolo and Piccolo Jr. are not entirely the same entity. He is the reincarnation, but they're different people, just as Kid Buu and Uub are not entirely the same person, despite being the "same" being originally.

But technicalities aside, unlike Freeza, King Piccolo has never had a change in character or has had moments to lighten the hatred between him and Goku. They fought to the death and then that's it. No friendly banter, no desire of wanting Piccolo to change his ways or to fight again, he was out for blood and it will never change for King Piccolo. It's just more of an arch enemy feeling than Freeza for me.
Nah King piccolo is gone forever Frieza is still Goku's archenemy because they still don't like each other and Frieza had more recurring appears than king piccolo.
Being dead or alive doesn't make an arch enemy status anymore or less valid. Plenty of arch enemies for characters in series are dead or have been dead. It's about them being the most formidable foe for the hero, which for me was and will be King Piccolo.

Freeza WAS his most formidable foe in the series for Goku when back on Namek, but due to Goku's attitude and interactions with him in Super he's been pegged down to second place to me.

He's still Goku's enemy, but it's not as fearsome. He wants Freeza to leave and train so they can fight, he wished Freeza could change so he can be a good sparring partner, they worked and helped each other out in the tournament and even have some little camaraderie with each other in it (like Freeza taking Goku and giving him energy). It's not nearly as bad as it is now compared to King Piccolo and Goku.
Frieza pretty much made goku go super Saiyan and had an effect on his life far more than King piccolo ever did. I mean goku woundn't have come to earth in the first place plus he has the most effect.

User avatar
Logania
Regular
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:47 am

Re: New Goku's archenemy update poll

Post by Logania » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:50 pm

Toxin45 wrote:
Logania wrote:
Toxin45 wrote: Nah King piccolo is gone forever Frieza is still Goku's archenemy because they still don't like each other and Frieza had more recurring appears than king piccolo.
Being dead or alive doesn't make an arch enemy status anymore or less valid. Plenty of arch enemies for characters in series are dead or have been dead. It's about them being the most formidable foe for the hero, which for me was and will be King Piccolo.

Freeza WAS his most formidable foe in the series for Goku when back on Namek, but due to Goku's attitude and interactions with him in Super he's been pegged down to second place to me.

He's still Goku's enemy, but it's not as fearsome. He wants Freeza to leave and train so they can fight, he wished Freeza could change so he can be a good sparring partner, they worked and helped each other out in the tournament and even have some little camaraderie with each other in it (like Freeza taking Goku and giving him energy). It's not nearly as bad as it is now compared to King Piccolo and Goku.
Frieza pretty much made goku go super Saiyan and had an effect on his life far more than King piccolo ever did. I mean goku woundn't have come to earth in the first place plus he has the most effect.
Goku would've come to Earth with or without Freeza. It was his mission to go there. Freeza and King Piccolo both had the same basic contributions to Goku, like killing his friends (Piccolo killed 3 friends to Freeza's 1, booyah lol) only difference is Goku's attitude and interactions with them, which now in Super, Goku doesn't treat Freeza like a bitter arch enemy, he's quite civil with him. King Piccolo not so much.
"I can't increase my ability through some kind of noisy transformation the way Frost and you Saiyans do. If I wanna become more lethal, I don't have the luxury of cutting corners, I just have to do it the old-fashioned way.

Combat is craft. What matters most is not raw power, but the skill by which you hone it."

Toxin45
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:35 pm

Re: New Goku's archenemy update poll

Post by Toxin45 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:58 pm

Logania wrote:
Toxin45 wrote:
Logania wrote:
Being dead or alive doesn't make an arch enemy status anymore or less valid. Plenty of arch enemies for characters in series are dead or have been dead. It's about them being the most formidable foe for the hero, which for me was and will be King Piccolo.

Freeza WAS his most formidable foe in the series for Goku when back on Namek, but due to Goku's attitude and interactions with him in Super he's been pegged down to second place to me.

He's still Goku's enemy, but it's not as fearsome. He wants Freeza to leave and train so they can fight, he wished Freeza could change so he can be a good sparring partner, they worked and helped each other out in the tournament and even have some little camaraderie with each other in it (like Freeza taking Goku and giving him energy). It's not nearly as bad as it is now compared to King Piccolo and Goku.
Frieza pretty much made goku go super Saiyan and had an effect on his life far more than King piccolo ever did. I mean goku woundn't have come to earth in the first place plus he has the most effect.
Goku would've come to Earth with or without Freeza. It was his mission to go there. Freeza and King Piccolo both had the same basic contributions to Goku, like killing his friends (Piccolo killed 3 friends to Freeza's 1, booyah lol) only difference is Goku's attitude and interactions with them, which now in Super, Goku doesn't treat Freeza like a bitter arch enemy, he's quite civil with him. King Piccolo not so much.
Yet king piccolo had become less involed in the seires and Frieza does still desire to kill goku.

User avatar
Logania
Regular
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:47 am

Re: New Goku's archenemy update poll

Post by Logania » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:06 am

Toxin45 wrote:
Logania wrote:
Toxin45 wrote: Frieza pretty much made goku go super Saiyan and had an effect on his life far more than King piccolo ever did. I mean goku woundn't have come to earth in the first place plus he has the most effect.
Goku would've come to Earth with or without Freeza. It was his mission to go there. Freeza and King Piccolo both had the same basic contributions to Goku, like killing his friends (Piccolo killed 3 friends to Freeza's 1, booyah lol) only difference is Goku's attitude and interactions with them, which now in Super, Goku doesn't treat Freeza like a bitter arch enemy, he's quite civil with him. King Piccolo not so much.
Yet king piccolo had become less involed in the seires and Frieza does still desire to kill goku.
I feel we're just going in circles at this point.

It doesn't matter if he's involved anymore or not, King Piccolo's run as the villain wasn't tainted or lessened when the arc was over like Freeza's has.

Freeza wanting to kill Goku doesn't mean much when he isn't treated like a huge threat anymore. All Goku treats Freeza as now is a potential sparring partner and if he does try anything, Goku and Vegeta both state they'll just kill him.

I feel Freeza always coming back has just been making his impact as a villain to me less important. Strongest opponent to Goku, comes back and gets one shotted by Trunks, comes back and gets humiliated by Vegeta and now in the tournament is talked to like an annoyance. It's just hard for me to view him as the most formidable enemy to Goku in the series at this point.
"I can't increase my ability through some kind of noisy transformation the way Frost and you Saiyans do. If I wanna become more lethal, I don't have the luxury of cutting corners, I just have to do it the old-fashioned way.

Combat is craft. What matters most is not raw power, but the skill by which you hone it."

Toxin45
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:35 pm

Re: New Goku's archenemy update poll

Post by Toxin45 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:23 am

Logania wrote:
Toxin45 wrote:
Logania wrote:
Goku would've come to Earth with or without Freeza. It was his mission to go there. Freeza and King Piccolo both had the same basic contributions to Goku, like killing his friends (Piccolo killed 3 friends to Freeza's 1, booyah lol) only difference is Goku's attitude and interactions with them, which now in Super, Goku doesn't treat Freeza like a bitter arch enemy, he's quite civil with him. King Piccolo not so much.
Yet king piccolo had become less involed in the seires and Frieza does still desire to kill goku.
I feel we're just going in circles at this point.

It doesn't matter if he's involved anymore or not, King Piccolo's run as the villain wasn't tainted or lessened when the arc was over like Freeza's has.

Freeza wanting to kill Goku doesn't mean much when he isn't treated like a huge threat anymore. All Goku treats Freeza as now is a potential sparring partner and if he does try anything, Goku and Vegeta both state they'll just kill him.

I feel Freeza always coming back has just been making his impact as a villain to me less important. Strongest opponent to Goku, comes back and gets one shotted by Trunks, comes back and gets humiliated by Vegeta and now in the tournament is talked to like an annoyance. It's just hard for me to view him as the most formidable enemy to Goku in the series at this point.

Frieza is still training and rebuilding his empire.

Post Reply