If Super used the EoZ Cast instead of the Buu Saga Cast, how would it be better?

[Exline]

I got the idea for this thread from the "Staging DBS as a midquel was a big mistake"

What do you guys think could even be done with the End of Z Cast?

Almost everyone is old and busy. Gohan's got work and Pan, Trunks and Goten have school, Krillin has gotten old and has Marron to worry about..

We'd be stuck with Goku, Vegeta, Majin Buu and Piccolo mostly. Sure Gohan, Pan, Trunks, and Goten could chime in. But thinking about that now, it kind of ruins how diverse the cast used to be.

The casts used to be varying races, but if Super used the EoZ cast, it would be mostly comprised of Saiyans. Super Saiyan has become an incredibly redundant transformation. It's boring to see now. I don't even know why Toriyama decided to create Cabba and have him NOT know Super Saiyan.

I'm glad Super used the Buu Saga Cast. Everyone's still young enough to hang out and spar once and a while. And without them being that young, the TOP wouldn't have happened with all of our fan favorites. And I'm grateful for that.

What do you guys think?

Would EoZ have been better for Super? Or did it do well enough with the Buu Cast?

[ToshioWrites]

I'd rather see Goten, Trunks and Pan then see The Trio of Baldies

[Alruneia]

Let me start out by saying I'm happy with Super's initial placement, and I mainly hoped it'd go to EoZ after the ToP, though the movie seems to suggest otherwise.

What do you guys think could even be done with the End of Z Cast?

Plenty if time is allowed to pass during the story so the kids can get a little older and more experienced.

Gohan's got work and Pan

This is pretty much already the case in Super.

Trunks and Goten have school

This is already the case in Super. Though they'd be in high school, so it'd probably be easier for them to sneak away from their studies.

Krillin has gotten old

This is true and would probably affect the ToP a bit.

and has Marron to worry about.

Marron is 13 in EoZ, as opposed to 9 in Super. I'll speak for myself here, but my parents had much less to worry about when I was 13 as opposed to when I was 9. She'd be (relatively) fine.

We'd be stuck with Goku, Vegeta, Majin Buu and Piccolo mostly. Sure Gohan, Pan, Trunks, and Goten could chime in. But thinking about that now, it kind of ruins how diverse the cast used to be.

I think Tien could pitch in as well. You're also forgetting Uub, who is kinda major as Goku's student.

The casts used to be varying races, but if Super used the EoZ cast, it would be mostly comprised of Saiyans.

The cast is already mostly comprised of saiyans in Super. There wouldn't be any real change here. This follows from the Buu arc itself and is basically "unfixable". Oh, and the explanations for why they used the humans in the ToP instead of Goten and Trunks would still apply here, as the two are still inexperienced, and obviously this goes for Pan as well. Goku could want to bring Uub instead of Krillin though. So the ToP would look mostly the same. The other arcs are basically 100 % Goku and Vegeta anyway, so you wouldn't notice much difference there either.

[Exline]

Let me start out by saying I'm happy with Super's initial placement, and I mainly hoped it'd go to EoZ after the ToP, though the movie seems to suggest otherwise.

I agree. We've had enough fun with this version of the cast. It's time to move on now.

Gohan's got work and Pan

This is pretty much already the case in Super.

He's sort of in-between martial arts, his job, and dealing with Pan. That's what I kind of like about Gohan. He's got this internal struggle of whether or not he wants to continue martial arts or focus solely on his career, because apparently both cannot be done.

We'd be stuck with Goku, Vegeta, Majin Buu and Piccolo mostly. Sure Gohan, Pan, Trunks, and Goten could chime in. But thinking about that now, it kind of ruins how diverse the cast used to be.

I think Tien could pitch in as well. You're also forgetting Uub, who is kinda major as Goku's student.

Ah man, I did forget about Uub. And how would Tien be able to? He's older than Krillin, he'd be too weak to fight alongside Goku and the others who are now capable of breaking planets.

The casts used to be varying races, but if Super used the EoZ cast, it would be mostly comprised of Saiyans.

The cast is already mostly comprised of saiyans in Super. There wouldn't be any real change here. This follows from the Buu arc itself and is basically "unfixable". Oh, and the explanations for why they used the humans in the ToP instead of Goten and Trunks would still apply here, as the two are still inexperienced, and obviously this goes for Pan as well. Goku could want to bring Uub instead of Krillin though. So the ToP would look mostly the same. The other arcs are basically 100 % Goku and Vegeta anyway, so you wouldn't notice much difference there either.

But when you factor in Bra and Pan when they grow up and possibly become capable of fighting, then thats when it will be too many Saiyans. I was hoping characters like Hit and Frost (If he remained a good guy) would be great contributions to the Dragon Team. I honestly hope if there is going to be EoZ arcs, that they focus on story arc where they're travelling between other Universes.

Or hopefully we get new additions to the main team. There's been an extreme lack of that. It's remained somewhat the same.

[Toxin45]

Let me start out by saying I'm happy with Super's initial placement, and I mainly hoped it'd go to EoZ after the ToP, though the movie seems to suggest otherwise.

I agree. We've had enough fun with this version of the cast. It's time to move on now.

Gohan's got work and Pan

This is pretty much already the case in Super.

He's sort of in-between martial arts, his job, and dealing with Pan. That's what I kind of like about Gohan. He's got this internal struggle of whether or not he wants to continue martial arts or focus solely on his career, because apparently both cannot be done.

We'd be stuck with Goku, Vegeta, Majin Buu and Piccolo mostly. Sure Gohan, Pan, Trunks, and Goten could chime in. But thinking about that now, it kind of ruins how diverse the cast used to be.

I think Tien could pitch in as well. You're also forgetting Uub, who is kinda major as Goku's student.

Ah man, I did forget about Uub. And how would Tien be able to? He's older than Krillin, he'd be too weak to fight alongside Goku and the others who are now capable of breaking planets.

The casts used to be varying races, but if Super used the EoZ cast, it would be mostly comprised of Saiyans.

The cast is already mostly comprised of saiyans in Super. There wouldn't be any real change here. This follows from the Buu arc itself and is basically "unfixable". Oh, and the explanations for why they used the humans in the ToP instead of Goten and Trunks would still apply here, as the two are still inexperienced, and obviously this goes for Pan as well. Goku could want to bring Uub instead of Krillin though. So the ToP would look mostly the same. The other arcs are basically 100 % Goku and Vegeta anyway, so you wouldn't notice much difference there either.

But when you factor in Bra and Pan when they grow up and possibly become capable of fighting, then thats when it will be too many Saiyans. I was hoping characters like Hit and Frost (If he remained a good guy) would be great contributions to the Dragon Team. I honestly hope if there is going to be EoZ arcs, that they focus on story arc where they're travelling between other Universes.

Or hopefully we get new additions to the main team. There's been an extreme lack of that. It's remained somewhat the same.

Why not neko majin? I mean we already have jaco

[sintzu]

I'd rather see Goten, Trunks and Pan then see The Trio of Baldies

The only thing we'd see with them is the death of a franchise.

[Robo4900]

If Super used the EoZ cast instead of the Boo arc cast, it would still probably have the same writing team, style, and animation, so it wouldn't be better.

[PFM18]

If Super used the EoZ cast instead of the Boo arc cast, it would still probably have the same writing team, style, and animation, so it wouldn't be better.

....are you trying to say super has bad animation? Have you seen anything past the movie retellings? Its leaps and bounds better than anything in Z or DB

[Robo4900]

....are you trying to say super has bad animation? Have you seen anything past the movie retellings? Its leaps and bounds better than anything in Z or DB

I stopped watching at episode 102. IMO, it's the ugliest Dragon Ball series so far; DB, Z, and especially GT were leagues better-looking than the crap Super puts out, both in animation, and overall visual style.
Admittedly, Z had a few off-looking episodes in the Freeza and Cell arcs, but Super barely goes 10 minutes without a goofy keyframe, every two or three episodes you suddenly get a massive dud, and starting from the Universe Survival arc, the overall look of the show suddenly took a turn for the really ugly.

[PFM18]

....are you trying to say super has bad animation? Have you seen anything past the movie retellings? Its leaps and bounds better than anything in Z or DB

I stopped watching at episode 102. IMO, it's the ugliest Dragon Ball series so far; DB, Z, and especially GT were leagues better-looking than the crap Super puts out, both in animation, and overall visual style.
Admittedly, Z had a few off-looking episodes in the Freeza and Cell arcs, but Super barely goes 10 minutes without a goofy keyframe, every two or three episodes you suddenly get a massive dud, and starting from the Universe Survival arc, the overall look of the show suddenly took a turn for the really ugly.

I mean I guess everyone can have their own opinion. I just re-watched DB and then DBZ up until the end of the Namek Arc and it is just hideous in comparison to the ToP/FT arcs imo.

The stretch from the latter end of 129 until the end of 131 is by far the best animation the series has ever seen and I have no idea how anybody can deny that.

[Vegeta_Sama]

....are you trying to say super has bad animation? Have you seen anything past the movie retellings? Its leaps and bounds better than anything in Z or DB

I stopped watching at episode 102. IMO, it's the ugliest Dragon Ball series so far; DB, Z, and especially GT were leagues better-looking than the crap Super puts out, both in animation, and overall visual style.
Admittedly, Z had a few off-looking episodes in the Freeza and Cell arcs, but Super barely goes 10 minutes without a goofy keyframe, every two or three episodes you suddenly get a massive dud, and starting from the Universe Survival arc, the overall look of the show suddenly took a turn for the really ugly.

I mean I guess everyone can have their own opinion. I just re-watched DB and then DBZ up until the end of the Namek Arc and it is just hideous in comparison to the ToP/FT arcs imo.

The stretch from the latter end of 129 until the end of 131 is by far the best animation the series has ever seen and I have no idea how anybody can deny that.

Agree. The ToP is the best looking saga of all of DB. Period. Anyone who joined the DBZ rewatch knows that Z has as many off episodes , if not more, than Super.

[PFM18]

I stopped watching at episode 102. IMO, it's the ugliest Dragon Ball series so far; DB, Z, and especially GT were leagues better-looking than the crap Super puts out, both in animation, and overall visual style.
Admittedly, Z had a few off-looking episodes in the Freeza and Cell arcs, but Super barely goes 10 minutes without a goofy keyframe, every two or three episodes you suddenly get a massive dud, and starting from the Universe Survival arc, the overall look of the show suddenly took a turn for the really ugly.

I mean I guess everyone can have their own opinion. I just re-watched DB and then DBZ up until the end of the Namek Arc and it is just hideous in comparison to the ToP/FT arcs imo.

The stretch from the latter end of 129 until the end of 131 is by far the best animation the series has ever seen and I have no idea how anybody can deny that.

Agree. The ToP is the best looking saga of all of DB. Period. Anyone who joined the DBZ rewatch knows that Z has as many off episodes , if not more, than Super.

Right. When I rewatched DB/DBZ I realized just how poor it looks compared to the Future Trunks Arc/ToP. It is a night and day difference. This is reflected in the epic fight scenes that are also easily the best in the franchise.

Goku vs Jiren >>>> anything in Z.

[Exline]

If Super used the EoZ cast instead of the Boo arc cast, it would still probably have the same writing team, style, and animation, so it wouldn't be better.

I was hoping to encourage more thoughtful thinking
I was referring to more the characters rather than the animation, production etc.

Questioning whether or not this cast would be much more interesting to utilize within Super's Arcs or not.

[Robo4900]

I was hoping to encourage more thoughtful thinking
I was referring to more the characters rather than the animation, production etc.

Questioning whether or not this cast would be much more interesting to utilize within Super's Arcs or not.

I think the post-Boo era is the way to go, personally.

Though, if it was up to me, we'd be getting a series focused on the Goku Jr. era from GT.

[PFM18]

If Super used the EoZ cast instead of the Boo arc cast, it would still probably have the same writing team, style, and animation, so it wouldn't be better.

I was hoping to encourage more thoughtful thinking
I was referring to more the characters rather than the animation, production etc.

Questioning whether or not this cast would be much more interesting to utilize within Super's Arcs or not.

My apologies. I derailed the conversation.

In terms of which era's characters, why not both? They will probably delve into the EoZ characters once Super comes back and so you can probably get both perspectives. I think where things take place now you can still do things with the entire previous cast before they are getting old and moving on in their life after EoZ. If they did something at EoZ it would kind of be an awkward time because Bra,Pan and Uub wouldn't be old enough yet. If you wait a few years after EoZ you could have have a focus on Bra,Pan,Uub,Goten,and Trunks and it could work. Obviously there'd have to be juggling involved and without constant Goku and Vegeta it may not be received well.

[Koitsukai]

I only think the ToP being a midsequel was a mistake, to me it was the perfect final arc the show could ask for.

Regarding the thread, GT was set 5 years after EoZ, and we had Uub, Buu, Pan, Goten and Trunks at our disposal, talk about missed oportunities, right?. So for Super, at least 5 years after EoZ should do, and you could throw Bra or Bura into the mix and I wouldn't mind Marron discovering she is a superwarrior just like her parents. Future Trunks could have a kid with Mai perhaps? Gohan is a wild card, you never know if he'll retain his interest in fighting. Probably not.

In terms of power, the gap between Goku and Vegeta and the rest of the cast is just so big that it doesn't matter when the story takes place, unless Whis opens a dojo on Earth.

[Toxin45]

I only think the ToP being a midsequel was a mistake, to me it was the perfect final arc the show could ask for.

Regarding the thread, GT was set 5 years after EoZ, and we had Uub, Buu, Pan, Goten and Trunks at our disposal, talk about missed oportunities, right?. So for Super, at least 5 years after EoZ should do, and you could throw Bra or Bura into the mix and I wouldn't mind Marron discovering she is a superwarrior just like her parents. Future Trunks could have a kid with Mai perhaps? Gohan is a wild card, you never know if he'll retain his interest in fighting. Probably not.

In terms of power, the gap between Goku and Vegeta and the rest of the cast is just so big that it doesn't matter when the story takes place, unless Whis opens a dojo on Earth.

Well actually bra isn't a fighter dude.

[Robo4900]

Well actually bra isn't a fighter dude.

Only in GT.

Outside of GT, she's never really had any characterisation of any kind, really; she showed up for a couple of shots in the Boo arc of Z, but wasn't really characterised much, just shown as "Cute little kid".

It would be a really nice nod to GT if, when Toei go post-Z, they use GT's characterisation of Bra.
Not everyone of Saiyan descent has to be a fighter, afterall. Granted, you could say it's just a tad sexist that one of the two girls with Saiyan heritage is the one of the bunch who's not a fighter, but there's always Pan, right?

Gohan is a wild card, you never know if he'll retain his interest in fighting. Probably not.

The read I've always got on Gohan is that he likes fighting, but training in idle time either doesn't hold his interest, or he has other things he considers more important(Mainly his family life, his career, his studies, etc.). In theory, that's not a problem with his mystic form, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In terms of power, the gap between Goku and Vegeta and the rest of the cast is just so big that it doesn't matter when the story takes place, unless Whis opens a dojo on Earth.

Yep.

That's been a recurring problem with Super, and it was probably a lot of the reason why GT ended up structured like it was. FWIW, I've always thought GT did a good job of it by working in a big moment or two for every side character they could during the main plot, but at the same time, because the power gap is so gigantic, if they had any of the side-characters be main heavy hitters in any of the big fights, it'd make no sense, and basically just be there so that fighter can get Worf'd, which would just be more frustrating than anything else.
And to its credit, Super has done an admirable effort in trying to combat this with the Tournament Of Power; the idea of the tournament being more of an endurance test, thus meaning the really heavy-hitters won't be fighting at full power aside from a few brief moments leading up to the end is a really cool idea, and pretty much the perfect setup through which to bring Gohan, Piccolo, Tenshinhan, #17, #18, and Boo back into the fold. And y'know what, it's stupid, but I like that they brought Kuririn in for it too. The cyborgs and Boo are especially invaluable here, though, since the cyborgs basically have unlimited power IIRC, and Boo is pretty much indestructible.
(Yes, I did just compliment Super. In case I haven't stated it before: I think Super does have some great arc ideas, and I've been enjoying reading manga immensely)

My point here is that both GT and Super have brought up ways around the power gap problem, so it's not like it's an insurmountable issue, it just requires some clever thinking.

[Koitsukai]

I only think the ToP being a midsequel was a mistake, to me it was the perfect final arc the show could ask for.

Regarding the thread, GT was set 5 years after EoZ, and we had Uub, Buu, Pan, Goten and Trunks at our disposal, talk about missed oportunities, right?. So for Super, at least 5 years after EoZ should do, and you could throw Bra or Bura into the mix and I wouldn't mind Marron discovering she is a superwarrior just like her parents. Future Trunks could have a kid with Mai perhaps? Gohan is a wild card, you never know if he'll retain his interest in fighting. Probably not.

In terms of power, the gap between Goku and Vegeta and the rest of the cast is just so big that it doesn't matter when the story takes place, unless Whis opens a dojo on Earth.

Well actually bra isn't a fighter dude.

based on what? gt?

She is a saiyan, even more so than Pan, they can have her as a part of the fighting staff after EoZ if they want to. After Goku ditches Pan for Uub and leaves her with no training partner, Bra could come into the picture.

[Robo4900]

based on what? gt?

She is a saiyan, even more so than Pan, they can have her as a part of the fighting staff after EoZ if they want to. After Goku ditches Pan for Uub and leaves her with no training partner, Bra could come into the picture.

Still, as I said in my post, no reason she can't also be a less-fighty person in the new timeline too. We really don't know either way what they'll do.