Do you think a guidebook would...

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Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by PFM18 » Mon May 07, 2018 3:50 pm

Do you think that an upcoming DBS guidebook or any supplementary material would ever reveal how much the weights Goku and Vegeta were using when they trained with Whis were? Or the weight of their weighted suits that they used when training with Whis? I think it would be a fun power-scaling type piece of information.

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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon May 07, 2018 4:05 pm

I want flashbacks of off-screen trainings lol

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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by Meshack » Mon May 07, 2018 4:45 pm

Doubt it. We just know the suits Whis gave to Gokou and Vegega for punishment were super heavy for them. In the comic, Vegeta was unable to lift Otta Magetta who was at least 1000 tons, even as a Super Saiyan.

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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by ToshioWrites » Mon May 07, 2018 4:59 pm

Meshack wrote:Doubt it. We just know the suits Whis gave to Gokou and Vegega for punishment were super heavy for them. In the comic, Vegeta was unable to lift Otta Magetta who was at least 1000 tons, even as a Super Saiyan.

Which made no sense. Goku in the buu arc could life 40 tons as a super saiyan and by the time of the u6 tournament, goku and vegeta in their natural states were as strong as SSG Goku in BoG so as a super saiyan vegeta should have had 0 issues

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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by Asura » Mon May 07, 2018 5:58 pm

Good luck to the poor saps that would have to throw the guidebook together, god knows how impossible it is to make sense of some of the stuff in Super.

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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by PFM18 » Mon May 07, 2018 11:28 pm

Meshack wrote:Doubt it. We just know the suits Whis gave to Gokou and Vegega for punishment were super heavy for them. In the comic, Vegeta was unable to lift Otta Magetta who was at least 1000 tons, even as a Super Saiyan.
Yet another example of the manga being trash. Goku could lift 40 tons in base during 7 years before the Buu arc. That implies Goku pre buu arc>Vegeta U6 tournament

The anime sheds no light on how heavy they are or how much Goku/Vegeta can lift

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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Mon May 07, 2018 11:43 pm

ToshioWrites wrote:Which made no sense. Goku in the buu arc could life 40 tons as a super saiyan and by the time of the u6 tournament, goku and vegeta in their natural states were as strong as SSG Goku in BoG so as a super saiyan vegeta should have had 0 issues
Toyotaro's manga doesn't include any variation of a scene with the Saiyans absorbing the power of Super Saiyan God once it wears off. They simply retain the form in their arsenal to be used at will instead in his continuity, rather than the anime's slightly confusing approach.
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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by ToshioWrites » Mon May 07, 2018 11:46 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Meshack wrote:Doubt it. We just know the suits Whis gave to Gokou and Vegega for punishment were super heavy for them. In the comic, Vegeta was unable to lift Otta Magetta who was at least 1000 tons, even as a Super Saiyan.
Yet another example of the manga being trash. Goku could lift 40 tons in base during 7 years before the Buu arc. That implies Goku pre buu arc>Vegeta U6 tournament

The anime sheds no light on how heavy they are or how much Goku/Vegeta can lift

Goku was a super saiyan when he lifted 40 tons and as DevilCorpse below pointed out, the manga has never shown or indicated that goku/vegeta base forms are superior to BoG SSG Goku which i forgot about

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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by Meshack » Mon May 07, 2018 11:56 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
ToshioWrites wrote:Which made no sense. Goku in the buu arc could life 40 tons as a super saiyan and by the time of the u6 tournament, goku and vegeta in their natural states were as strong as SSG Goku in BoG so as a super saiyan vegeta should have had 0 issues
Toyotaro's manga doesn't include any variation of a scene with the Saiyans absorbing the power of Super Saiyan God once it wears off. They simply retain the form in their arsenal to be used at will instead in his continuity, rather than the anime's slightly confusing approach.
Gokou did absorb the power of God in the comic. It just wasn’t talked about. Gokou would not have known in the movie and cartoon if he didn’t ask Beerus. That’s why we know.

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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by Meshack » Mon May 07, 2018 11:58 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Meshack wrote:Doubt it. We just know the suits Whis gave to Gokou and Vegega for punishment were super heavy for them. In the comic, Vegeta was unable to lift Otta Magetta who was at least 1000 tons, even as a Super Saiyan.
Yet another example of the manga being trash. Goku could lift 40 tons in base during 7 years before the Buu arc. That implies Goku pre buu arc>Vegeta U6 tournament

The anime sheds no light on how heavy they are or how much Goku/Vegeta can lift
When did that happen? Gokou struggled with 40 tons while using Bukuujutsu in his normal form until he transformed. I believe Daizenshuu talks about it being weight training with Bukuujutsu, not just weight training.

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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by ToshioWrites » Tue May 08, 2018 12:03 am

Meshack wrote:
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
ToshioWrites wrote:Which made no sense. Goku in the buu arc could life 40 tons as a super saiyan and by the time of the u6 tournament, goku and vegeta in their natural states were as strong as SSG Goku in BoG so as a super saiyan vegeta should have had 0 issues
Toyotaro's manga doesn't include any variation of a scene with the Saiyans absorbing the power of Super Saiyan God once it wears off. They simply retain the form in their arsenal to be used at will instead in his continuity, rather than the anime's slightly confusing approach.
Gokou did absorb the power of God in the comic. It just wasn’t talked about. Gokou would not have known in the movie and cartoon if he didn’t ask Beerus. That’s why we know.

No he didn't cause he never dropped out of ssg into super saiyan vs beerus. He fought the entire time in ssg and was finally completely beaten, at no point did he fight in his golden hair forms.

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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by PFM18 » Tue May 08, 2018 12:07 am

ToshioWrites wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Meshack wrote:Doubt it. We just know the suits Whis gave to Gokou and Vegega for punishment were super heavy for them. In the comic, Vegeta was unable to lift Otta Magetta who was at least 1000 tons, even as a Super Saiyan.
Yet another example of the manga being trash. Goku could lift 40 tons in base during 7 years before the Buu arc. That implies Goku pre buu arc>Vegeta U6 tournament

The anime sheds no light on how heavy they are or how much Goku/Vegeta can lift

Goku was a super saiyan when he lifted 40 tons and as DevilCorpse below pointed out, the manga has never shown or indicated that goku/vegeta base forms are superior to BoG SSG Goku which i forgot about
He was struggling to carry it but he still could. Once he became a super saiyan it became light as a feather. The manga doesnt have any "infusion of god power scene" but vegeta should still be several fold stronger than pre Buu arc Goku and they showed vegeta to be weaker.
1000/50 = 20 tons
Goku lifted 40 tons

Hence the manga implying Goku pre buu arc> Vegeta U6 arc

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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by Meshack » Tue May 08, 2018 12:13 am

ToshioWrites wrote:
Meshack wrote:
TheDevilsCorpse wrote: Toyotaro's manga doesn't include any variation of a scene with the Saiyans absorbing the power of Super Saiyan God once it wears off. They simply retain the form in their arsenal to be used at will instead in his continuity, rather than the anime's slightly confusing approach.
Gokou did absorb the power of God in the comic. It just wasn’t talked about. Gokou would not have known in the movie and cartoon if he didn’t ask Beerus. That’s why we know.

No he didn't cause he never dropped out of ssg into super saiyan vs beerus. He fought the entire time in ssg and was finally completely beaten, at no point did he fight in his golden hair forms.
Toyotarou only had a certain amount of pages at the time, far less than he has now. There’s no way he could have concluded that battle and teased Freeza’s return with less than 20 pages. He already skipped tons of stuff that was in the movie and TV animated version. Toyotarou had tons to juggle with and didn’t have time to explain it. Everything is the comic basically goes with the movie and animated version just not seen. Just because he didn’t get to explain it means it didn’t happen?

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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by Meshack » Tue May 08, 2018 12:14 am

PFM18 wrote:
ToshioWrites wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Yet another example of the manga being trash. Goku could lift 40 tons in base during 7 years before the Buu arc. That implies Goku pre buu arc>Vegeta U6 tournament

The anime sheds no light on how heavy they are or how much Goku/Vegeta can lift

Goku was a super saiyan when he lifted 40 tons and as DevilCorpse below pointed out, the manga has never shown or indicated that goku/vegeta base forms are superior to BoG SSG Goku which i forgot about
He was struggling to carry it but he still could. Once he became a super saiyan it became light as a feather. The manga doesnt have any "infusion of god power scene" but vegeta should still be several fold stronger than pre Buu arc Goku and they showed vegeta to be weaker.
1000/50 = 20 tons
Goku lifted 40 tons

Hence the manga implying Goku pre buu arc> Vegeta U6 arc
The comic didn’t show Gokou versus Freeza. Does that mean it didn’t happen?

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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by Rakurai » Tue May 08, 2018 12:37 am

Meshack wrote:Toyotarou only had a certain amount of pages at the time, far less than he has now. There’s no way he could have concluded that battle and teased Freeza’s return with less than 20 pages. He already skipped tons of stuff that was in the movie and TV animated version. Toyotarou had tons to juggle with and didn’t have time to explain it. Everything is the comic basically goes with the movie and animated version just not seen. Just because he didn’t get to explain it means it didn’t happen?
SSG is an active transformation. Absorbing SSG is either fan canon or has been retconned.

Toei did it and guess what, they ignored SSG for almost 100 episodes, and only started using it after Toyotaro's usage of the form was already in existence. Toei backtracked and retconned it cause they probably realized they could sell more toys by shoehorning it in for whatever random reason.

There's a very obvious reason why Toyo didn't include that scene. It was done intentionally and deliberately. He wanted to keep SSG relevant by making it an active form and planned ahead. Goku didn't absorb SSG's power in the manga, period. Anything else is headcanon.

As for the guidebook. Super's guidebook would prob not include a lot of powerscaling details. And if it did, it would prob just contradict itself with the show and cause more shitstorm towards fans.
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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by Meshack » Tue May 08, 2018 1:46 am

Rakurai wrote:
Meshack wrote:Toyotarou only had a certain amount of pages at the time, far less than he has now. There’s no way he could have concluded that battle and teased Freeza’s return with less than 20 pages. He already skipped tons of stuff that was in the movie and TV animated version. Toyotarou had tons to juggle with and didn’t have time to explain it. Everything is the comic basically goes with the movie and animated version just not seen. Just because he didn’t get to explain it means it didn’t happen?
SSG is an active transformation. Absorbing SSG is either fan canon or has been retconned.

Toei did it and guess what, they ignored SSG for almost 100 episodes, and only started using it after Toyotaro's usage of the form was already in existence. Toei backtracked and retconned it cause they probably realized they could sell more toys by shoehorning it in for whatever random reason.

There's a very obvious reason why Toyo didn't include that scene. It was done intentionally and deliberately. He wanted to keep SSG relevant by making it an active form and planned ahead. Goku didn't absorb SSG's power in the manga, period. Anything else is headcanon.

As for the guidebook. Super's guidebook would prob not include a lot of powerscaling details. And if it did, it would prob just contradict itself with the show and cause more shitstorm towards fans.
Fans believed Gokou couldn’t become a golden Super Saiyan after achieving Blue but guess what? He did. Absorbing the power of God doesn’t mean he can’t use the form. But believe what you want

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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by BlueBasilisk » Tue May 08, 2018 9:48 am

Meshack wrote:Fans believed Gokou couldn’t become a golden Super Saiyan after achieving Blue but guess what? He did. Absorbing the power of God doesn’t mean he can’t use the form. But believe what you want
I don't get why people struggle with the concept so much. It's the same as GT Goku allegedly being as strong as SS3 Buu Saga Goku. It doesn't stop him from transforming into SS3, he's just that much stronger.

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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by PFM18 » Tue May 08, 2018 11:29 am

Rakurai wrote:
Meshack wrote:Toyotarou only had a certain amount of pages at the time, far less than he has now. There’s no way he could have concluded that battle and teased Freeza’s return with less than 20 pages. He already skipped tons of stuff that was in the movie and TV animated version. Toyotarou had tons to juggle with and didn’t have time to explain it. Everything is the comic basically goes with the movie and animated version just not seen. Just because he didn’t get to explain it means it didn’t happen?
SSG is an active transformation. Absorbing SSG is either fan canon or has been retconned.

Toei did it and guess what, they ignored SSG for almost 100 episodes, and only started using it after Toyotaro's usage of the form was already in existence. Toei backtracked and retconned it cause they probably realized they could sell more toys by shoehorning it in for whatever random reason.

There's a very obvious reason why Toyo didn't include that scene. It was done intentionally and deliberately. He wanted to keep SSG relevant by making it an active form and planned ahead. Goku didn't absorb SSG's power in the manga, period. Anything else is headcanon.

As for the guidebook. Super's guidebook would prob not include a lot of powerscaling details. And if it did, it would prob just contradict itself with the show and cause more shitstorm towards fans.
How does any of this indicate a retcon? This has nothing to do with the toys. For the most part why use SSG when you can use SSB?

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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by Doctor. » Tue May 08, 2018 11:38 am

PFM18 wrote:
Meshack wrote:Doubt it. We just know the suits Whis gave to Gokou and Vegega for punishment were super heavy for them. In the comic, Vegeta was unable to lift Otta Magetta who was at least 1000 tons, even as a Super Saiyan.
Yet another example of the manga being trash. Goku could lift 40 tons in base during 7 years before the Buu arc. That implies Goku pre buu arc>Vegeta U6 tournament

The anime sheds no light on how heavy they are or how much Goku/Vegeta can lift
How is Goku being able to lift 40 tons and Vegeta being unable to lift 1000 prove anything? There's a pretty huge gap between the two numbers.

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Re: Do you think a guidebook would...

Post by Rakurai » Tue May 08, 2018 1:08 pm

PFM18 wrote: How does any of this indicate a retcon? This has nothing to do with the toys. For the most part why use SSG when you can use SSB?
Literally the success and continuation of a show has to do with the toys. Ratings and merchandise. I don't believe that they brought back SSG just for kicks lol.

SSG is less stamina consuming. In times when he could save stamina, why didn't Goku use SSG against Frieza? Against Hit? Against Gohan? and so on and so forth.

Bringing back SSG was random and literally did nothing in the comeback episode whatsoever. It was missing for almost 100 episodes with no indication it could still be used for muhstamina. Yeah sure it wasn't a retcon.
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