What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3106
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Miracles » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:39 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Piccolo's comment does not provide an context of Goku's speed increasing just because of his allies. Piccolo states that Goku is carrying the responsibility of saving their fucking universe from being erased. It has nothing to with special ties or "friendship". It's simply the fact that one man (Goku) still retains the resolve to carry on fighting knowing full well what is at stake and taking into account what is happening with his battle against Jiren.

As far as the cast were concerned, Goku was the only thing preventing Universe 7 from being wiped from existence, so naturally they put all their faith in Goku to win, not because of friendship, because they don't want to be erased by Zeno(s). Goku is aware of this, and so is Piccolo.

And Piccolo is also aware that, even in extreme circumstances where billions of lives are on the line, Goku can act selfish and be in it for himself (Cell Games), hence why he remarks that Goku isn't only fighting for himself, prior to stating that Goku is bearing the hopes of Universe 7 in a battle that determine whether Universe 7 lives or doesn't.

If Piccolo had stated that Goku had special ties, or explicitly stated that Goku has allies and Jiren doesn't, then I'd side with you argument. But that's not the case. I don't know how faith in a single person to prevent universal destruction can be misconstrued as simply the "power of friendship".

With regards to how Goku's speed increased -- even though it made no difference -- it ties back to what Vegeta stated in Episode 129: the Saiyans find ways to break through their limits time and time again. Goku found a way to somewhat improve on the complete Ultra Instinct ability.
The context surrounding Piccolo's statement was what Goku said first about the faith from his friends when Jiren asked him how can he still stand! Shin goes on to say Goku's speed increased even further, Belmound asks how, then says that's impossible, Piccolo answers Belmound's question with a question, "you don't even know?" Then says he bears all his friends hope. The context is there, Goku recovered and got a speed increase cause of his friends.

User avatar
Bergamo
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Bergamo » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:42 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: Piccolo's comment does not provide an context of Goku's speed increasing just because of his allies. Piccolo states that Goku is carrying the responsibility of saving their fucking universe from being erased. It has nothing to with special ties or "friendship". It's simply the fact that one man (Goku) still retains the resolve to carry on fighting knowing full well what is at stake and taking into account what is happening with his battle against Jiren.

As far as the cast were concerned, Goku was the only thing preventing Universe 7 from being wiped from existence, so naturally they put all their faith in Goku to win, not because of friendship, because they don't want to be erased by Zeno(s). Goku is aware of this, and so is Piccolo.

And Piccolo is also aware that, even in extreme circumstances where billions of lives are on the line, Goku can act selfish and be in it for himself (Cell Games), hence why he remarks that Goku isn't only fighting for himself, prior to stating that Goku is bearing the hopes of Universe 7 in a battle that determine whether Universe 7 lives or doesn't.

If Piccolo had stated that Goku had special ties, or explicitly stated that Goku has allies and Jiren doesn't, then I'd side with you argument. But that's not the case. I don't know how faith in a single person to prevent universal destruction can be misconstrued as simply the "power of friendship".

With regards to how Goku's speed increased -- even though it made no difference -- it ties back to what Vegeta stated in Episode 129: the Saiyans find ways to break through their limits time and time again. Goku found a way to somewhat improve on the complete Ultra Instinct ability.
I don't think Goku ever acknowledged the stakes of his situation. He does mention his friends though.
He states that everyone of Universe 7 is trusting in him to win, so he's fully aware of how much responsibility is on his shoulders to beat Jiren and save Universe 7 from erasure. And it's not as if the feeling isn't mutual to Jiren, as he also states that no matter, he'll never lose, because if he does Universe 11 would be erased. I mean, as much as an asshole Jiren turned out to be, he still gives a shit about the well being of his universe as much as Goku does.
The best part about this is how bad the writing is...

1. Goku's power and speed should have stopped increasing after her mastered ultra instinct. He mastered the form right? What is there to improve?

2. It was stated in 129 that Goku no longer felt any pressure, and that everything but the battle had seemingly faded away. He was in an intense state of focus. This was completely dropped in 130.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 21000
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:42 am

Miracles wrote:The context surrounding Piccolo's statement was what Goku said first about the faith from his friends when Jiren asked him how can he still stand! Shin goes on to say Goku's speed increased even further, Belmound asks how, then says that's impossible, Piccolo answers Belmound's question with a question, "you don't even know?" Then says he bears all his friends hope. The context is there, Goku recovered and got a speed increase cause of his friends.
I highly doubt Freeza would be considered a friend by Goku. When Goku stated everyone else was trusting in him to win, he was taking into account ALL of Universe 7, whether they be allies, family, enemies and everybody else that makes up Universe 7. I mean, Goku is aware that that there are billions of lives depending on whether he can defeat Jiren on not. The only time Goku specifically mentions "friends" is when Jiren tries to kill them, and Goku states that while doesn't think he's not a hero of justice, those who'd hurt his friends, he'll never forgive.

Even if the case of Goku getting a speed boost because of his friends, it doesn't have any impact on the battle. You could take out that whole scene and nothing would change.
Bergamo wrote:The best part about this is how bad the writing is...

1. Goku's power and speed should have stopped increasing after her mastered ultra instinct. He mastered the form right? What is there to improve?

2. It was stated in 129 that Goku no longer felt any pressure, and that everything but the battle had seemingly faded away. He was in an intense state of focus. This was completely dropped in 130.
Who's to say that you can't improve on Ultra Instinct, even when you've attained the complete version of it? That's like saying you can't gain any further strength from Super Saiyan after you've mastered the form, and we all know that's not true.

Goku attained full control of Ultra Instinct in the next episode, so Goku was able to full retain his mental conscious -- and think at free will -- while also acting instinctively in battle. Something he was wasn't able to in previous occasions where he used Ultra Instinct, because he hadn't attained the completed version of the ability.

User avatar
1345521
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:07 am

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by 1345521 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:24 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Miracles wrote:The context surrounding Piccolo's statement was what Goku said first about the faith from his friends when Jiren asked him how can he still stand! Shin goes on to say Goku's speed increased even further, Belmound asks how, then says that's impossible, Piccolo answers Belmound's question with a question, "you don't even know?" Then says he bears all his friends hope. The context is there, Goku recovered and got a speed increase cause of his friends.
I highly doubt Freeza would be considered a friend by Goku. When Goku stated everyone else was trusting in him to win, he was taking into account ALL of Universe 7, whether they be allies, family, enemies and everybody else that makes up Universe 7. I mean, Goku is aware that that there are billions of lives depending on whether he can defeat Jiren on not. The only time Goku specifically mentions "friends" is when Jiren tries to kill them, and Goku states that while doesn't think he's not a hero of justice, those who'd hurt his friends, he'll never forgive.

Even if the case of Goku getting a speed boost because of his friends, it doesn't have any impact on the battle. You could take out that whole scene and nothing would change.
Bergamo wrote:The best part about this is how bad the writing is...

1. Goku's power and speed should have stopped increasing after her mastered ultra instinct. He mastered the form right? What is there to improve?

2. It was stated in 129 that Goku no longer felt any pressure, and that everything but the battle had seemingly faded away. He was in an intense state of focus. This was completely dropped in 130.
Who's to say that you can't improve on Ultra Instinct, even when you've attained the complete version of it? That's like saying you can't gain any further strength from Super Saiyan after you've mastered the form, and we all know that's not true.

Goku attained full control of Ultra Instinct in the next episode, so Goku was able to full retain his mental conscious -- and think at free will -- while also acting instinctively in battle. Something he was wasn't able to in previous occasions where he used Ultra Instinct, because he hadn't attained the completed version of the ability.
How can you admit to saying goku gets a friend boost because of his friends and then say take the scene out and Nkthing would change. Yes "something" would change because he dosent get that friendship boost THUS he dosent get back up thus he gets eliminated. SIMPLE.

No that dosent count because how can you continue to power up in a formin a span of less then two minutes? Mr. Bergamo is speaking facts, it's BAD WRITING. To see use that ssj analogy, it's like saying goku somehow miraculously powers up in his ssj form against freeza just because? WHAT? That makes no sense, goku isn't the hulk. He dosent get randomly stronger as he fights. Toei is just doing bad writing. The only reason he got "stronger" in omen (how does the UI form make you above blue level in the first place? And why does mastering the offensive version of UI get you stronger?) was because he was ascending to the MUI state. Pinicle completion, so how does goku keep powering when it's said he's mastered UI? FRIENDSHIP BOOST. = bad writing
And also, that ssj analogy is bullocks (no offence). Because ssj is just a multplyer, the only reason it increases is because goku got stronger in base. Ssj don't arbitrarily get stronger like what is being showed here with MUI!
And why are you ignoring all of my comments?

User avatar
Bergamo
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Bergamo » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:36 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Miracles wrote:The context surrounding Piccolo's statement was what Goku said first about the faith from his friends when Jiren asked him how can he still stand! Shin goes on to say Goku's speed increased even further, Belmound asks how, then says that's impossible, Piccolo answers Belmound's question with a question, "you don't even know?" Then says he bears all his friends hope. The context is there, Goku recovered and got a speed increase cause of his friends.
I highly doubt Freeza would be considered a friend by Goku. When Goku stated everyone else was trusting in him to win, he was taking into account ALL of Universe 7, whether they be allies, family, enemies and everybody else that makes up Universe 7. I mean, Goku is aware that that there are billions of lives depending on whether he can defeat Jiren on not. The only time Goku specifically mentions "friends" is when Jiren tries to kill them, and Goku states that while doesn't think he's not a hero of justice, those who'd hurt his friends, he'll never forgive.

Even if the case of Goku getting a speed boost because of his friends, it doesn't have any impact on the battle. You could take out that whole scene and nothing would change.
Bergamo wrote:The best part about this is how bad the writing is...

1. Goku's power and speed should have stopped increasing after her mastered ultra instinct. He mastered the form right? What is there to improve?

2. It was stated in 129 that Goku no longer felt any pressure, and that everything but the battle had seemingly faded away. He was in an intense state of focus. This was completely dropped in 130.
Who's to say that you can't improve on Ultra Instinct, even when you've attained the complete version of it? That's like saying you can't gain any further strength from Super Saiyan after you've mastered the form, and we all know that's not true.

Goku attained full control of Ultra Instinct in the next episode, so Goku was able to full retain his mental conscious -- and think at free will -- while also acting instinctively in battle. Something he was wasn't able to in previous occasions where he used Ultra Instinct, because he hadn't attained the completed version of the ability.
Goku got stronger because he was able to improve his usage of ultra instinct. Once he mastered UI, any strength he acquired came out of nowhere. Do you know why Goku gets stronger in the same form? It's because he trains. Goku has never gotten stronger for no reason before.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

User avatar
1345521
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:07 am

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by 1345521 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:42 am

Bergamo wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Miracles wrote:The context surrounding Piccolo's statement was what Goku said first about the faith from his friends when Jiren asked him how can he still stand! Shin goes on to say Goku's speed increased even further, Belmound asks how, then says that's impossible, Piccolo answers Belmound's question with a question, "you don't even know?" Then says he bears all his friends hope. The context is there, Goku recovered and got a speed increase cause of his friends.
I highly doubt Freeza would be considered a friend by Goku. When Goku stated everyone else was trusting in him to win, he was taking into account ALL of Universe 7, whether they be allies, family, enemies and everybody else that makes up Universe 7. I mean, Goku is aware that that there are billions of lives depending on whether he can defeat Jiren on not. The only time Goku specifically mentions "friends" is when Jiren tries to kill them, and Goku states that while doesn't think he's not a hero of justice, those who'd hurt his friends, he'll never forgive.

Even if the case of Goku getting a speed boost because of his friends, it doesn't have any impact on the battle. You could take out that whole scene and nothing would change.
Bergamo wrote:The best part about this is how bad the writing is...

1. Goku's power and speed should have stopped increasing after her mastered ultra instinct. He mastered the form right? What is there to improve?

2. It was stated in 129 that Goku no longer felt any pressure, and that everything but the battle had seemingly faded away. He was in an intense state of focus. This was completely dropped in 130.
Who's to say that you can't improve on Ultra Instinct, even when you've attained the complete version of it? That's like saying you can't gain any further strength from Super Saiyan after you've mastered the form, and we all know that's not true.

Goku attained full control of Ultra Instinct in the next episode, so Goku was able to full retain his mental conscious -- and think at free will -- while also acting instinctively in battle. Something he was wasn't able to in previous occasions where he used Ultra Instinct, because he hadn't attained the completed version of the ability.
Goku got stronger because he was able to improve his usage of ultra instinct. Once he mastered UI, any strength he acquired came out of nowhere. Do you know why Goku gets stronger in the same form? It's because he trains. Goku has never gotten stronger for no reason before.
Exactly. Because trains and gets stronger, he dosent just arbtraily increase his strength in the midst battle just because of friendship boost. Simple to see this is bad writing I think.

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 21000
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:31 am

Bergamo wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Miracles wrote:The context surrounding Piccolo's statement was what Goku said first about the faith from his friends when Jiren asked him how can he still stand! Shin goes on to say Goku's speed increased even further, Belmound asks how, then says that's impossible, Piccolo answers Belmound's question with a question, "you don't even know?" Then says he bears all his friends hope. The context is there, Goku recovered and got a speed increase cause of his friends.
I highly doubt Freeza would be considered a friend by Goku. When Goku stated everyone else was trusting in him to win, he was taking into account ALL of Universe 7, whether they be allies, family, enemies and everybody else that makes up Universe 7. I mean, Goku is aware that that there are billions of lives depending on whether he can defeat Jiren on not. The only time Goku specifically mentions "friends" is when Jiren tries to kill them, and Goku states that while doesn't think he's not a hero of justice, those who'd hurt his friends, he'll never forgive.

Even if the case of Goku getting a speed boost because of his friends, it doesn't have any impact on the battle. You could take out that whole scene and nothing would change.
Bergamo wrote:The best part about this is how bad the writing is...

1. Goku's power and speed should have stopped increasing after her mastered ultra instinct. He mastered the form right? What is there to improve?

2. It was stated in 129 that Goku no longer felt any pressure, and that everything but the battle had seemingly faded away. He was in an intense state of focus. This was completely dropped in 130.
Who's to say that you can't improve on Ultra Instinct, even when you've attained the complete version of it? That's like saying you can't gain any further strength from Super Saiyan after you've mastered the form, and we all know that's not true.

Goku attained full control of Ultra Instinct in the next episode, so Goku was able to full retain his mental conscious -- and think at free will -- while also acting instinctively in battle. Something he was wasn't able to in previous occasions where he used Ultra Instinct, because he hadn't attained the completed version of the ability.
Goku got stronger because he was able to improve his usage of ultra instinct. Once he mastered UI, any strength he acquired came out of nowhere. Do you know why Goku gets stronger in the same form? It's because he trains. Goku has never gotten stronger for no reason before.
Improving self movement -- which is was Ultra Instinct at its core is based around and what Goku did in Episode 130 -- has no set barrier. Besides, it's outright stated in original series, and by Toriyama himself, that Saiyans grow stronger the more they fight. And Toriyama's comment on that scenario goes the extra mile as he states that it's possible for Saiyans to even turn the tide in the middle of battle in their favor.

User avatar
1345521
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:07 am

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by 1345521 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:34 am

Bergamo wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Miracles wrote:The context surrounding Piccolo's statement was what Goku said first about the faith from his friends when Jiren asked him how can he still stand! Shin goes on to say Goku's speed increased even further, Belmound asks how, then says that's impossible, Piccolo answers Belmound's question with a question, "you don't even know?" Then says he bears all his friends hope. The context is there, Goku recovered and got a speed increase cause of his friends.
I highly doubt Freeza would be considered a friend by Goku. When Goku stated everyone else was trusting in him to win, he was taking into account ALL of Universe 7, whether they be allies, family, enemies and everybody else that makes up Universe 7. I mean, Goku is aware that that there are billions of lives depending on whether he can defeat Jiren on not. The only time Goku specifically mentions "friends" is when Jiren tries to kill them, and Goku states that while doesn't think he's not a hero of justice, those who'd hurt his friends, he'll never forgive.

Even if the case of Goku getting a speed boost because of his friends, it doesn't have any impact on the battle. You could take out that whole scene and nothing would change.
Bergamo wrote:The best part about this is how bad the writing is...

1. Goku's power and speed should have stopped increasing after her mastered ultra instinct. He mastered the form right? What is there to improve?

2. It was stated in 129 that Goku no longer felt any pressure, and that everything but the battle had seemingly faded away. He was in an intense state of focus. This was completely dropped in 130.
Who's to say that you can't improve on Ultra Instinct, even when you've attained the complete version of it? That's like saying you can't gain any further strength from Super Saiyan after you've mastered the form, and we all know that's not true.

Goku attained full control of Ultra Instinct in the next episode, so Goku was able to full retain his mental conscious -- and think at free will -- while also acting instinctively in battle. Something he was wasn't able to in previous occasions where he used Ultra Instinct, because he hadn't attained the completed version of the ability.
Goku got stronger because he was able to improve his usage of ultra instinct. Once he mastered UI, any strength he acquired came out of nowhere. Do you know why Goku gets stronger in the same form? It's because he trains. Goku has never gotten stronger for no reason before.
Do you have any idea why this Lord Berrus user is ignoring every single comment of mine? It's kinda making me mad... :problem:

User avatar
Bergamo
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Bergamo » Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:19 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: I highly doubt Freeza would be considered a friend by Goku. When Goku stated everyone else was trusting in him to win, he was taking into account ALL of Universe 7, whether they be allies, family, enemies and everybody else that makes up Universe 7. I mean, Goku is aware that that there are billions of lives depending on whether he can defeat Jiren on not. The only time Goku specifically mentions "friends" is when Jiren tries to kill them, and Goku states that while doesn't think he's not a hero of justice, those who'd hurt his friends, he'll never forgive.

Even if the case of Goku getting a speed boost because of his friends, it doesn't have any impact on the battle. You could take out that whole scene and nothing would change.


Who's to say that you can't improve on Ultra Instinct, even when you've attained the complete version of it? That's like saying you can't gain any further strength from Super Saiyan after you've mastered the form, and we all know that's not true.

Goku attained full control of Ultra Instinct in the next episode, so Goku was able to full retain his mental conscious -- and think at free will -- while also acting instinctively in battle. Something he was wasn't able to in previous occasions where he used Ultra Instinct, because he hadn't attained the completed version of the ability.
Goku got stronger because he was able to improve his usage of ultra instinct. Once he mastered UI, any strength he acquired came out of nowhere. Do you know why Goku gets stronger in the same form? It's because he trains. Goku has never gotten stronger for no reason before.
Improving self movement -- which is was Ultra Instinct at its core is based around and what Goku did in Episode 130 -- has no set barrier. Besides, it's outright stated in original series, and by Toriyama himself, that Saiyans grow stronger the more they fight. And Toriyama's comment on that scenario goes the extra mile as he states that it's possible for Saiyans to even turn the tide in the middle of battle in their favor.
Things Saiyans have done...
-Gotten new transformations in the middle of a battle.
-Gotten stronger out of a desire to protect others.
Things Saiyans have not done...
-Gotten random unexplained power boosts because they are Saiyans.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

Pokesamus217
Newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:53 pm

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Pokesamus217 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:18 pm

1345521 wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: I highly doubt Freeza would be considered a friend by Goku. When Goku stated everyone else was trusting in him to win, he was taking into account ALL of Universe 7, whether they be allies, family, enemies and everybody else that makes up Universe 7. I mean, Goku is aware that that there are billions of lives depending on whether he can defeat Jiren on not. The only time Goku specifically mentions "friends" is when Jiren tries to kill them, and Goku states that while doesn't think he's not a hero of justice, those who'd hurt his friends, he'll never forgive.

Even if the case of Goku getting a speed boost because of his friends, it doesn't have any impact on the battle. You could take out that whole scene and nothing would change.


Who's to say that you can't improve on Ultra Instinct, even when you've attained the complete version of it? That's like saying you can't gain any further strength from Super Saiyan after you've mastered the form, and we all know that's not true.

Goku attained full control of Ultra Instinct in the next episode, so Goku was able to full retain his mental conscious -- and think at free will -- while also acting instinctively in battle. Something he was wasn't able to in previous occasions where he used Ultra Instinct, because he hadn't attained the completed version of the ability.
Goku got stronger because he was able to improve his usage of ultra instinct. Once he mastered UI, any strength he acquired came out of nowhere. Do you know why Goku gets stronger in the same form? It's because he trains. Goku has never gotten stronger for no reason before.
Do you have any idea why this Lord Berrus user is ignoring every single comment of mine? It's kinda making me mad... :problem:
Well it’s likely he’s noticed that you have a habit of bashing the anime, while praising the manga, so he’s written you off as a lost cause.

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 21000
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:38 pm

Bergamo wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Bergamo wrote: Goku got stronger because he was able to improve his usage of ultra instinct. Once he mastered UI, any strength he acquired came out of nowhere. Do you know why Goku gets stronger in the same form? It's because he trains. Goku has never gotten stronger for no reason before.
Improving self movement -- which is was Ultra Instinct at its core is based around and what Goku did in Episode 130 -- has no set barrier. Besides, it's outright stated in original series, and by Toriyama himself, that Saiyans grow stronger the more they fight. And Toriyama's comment on that scenario goes the extra mile as he states that it's possible for Saiyans to even turn the tide in the middle of battle in their favor.
Things Saiyans have done...
-Gotten new transformations in the middle of a battle.
-Gotten stronger out of a desire to protect others.
Things Saiyans have not done...
-Gotten random unexplained power boosts because they are Saiyans.
Just because we didn't see it happen before, doesn't mean it can never happen. Because such a Saiyan trait of growing stronger in battle, at least according to Toriyama, does exist in-universe. It was just never utilized. Most likely because Toriyama decided to give with a more conventional Saiyan only power up (Zenkai).

User avatar
Bergamo
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Bergamo » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:51 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: Improving self movement -- which is was Ultra Instinct at its core is based around and what Goku did in Episode 130 -- has no set barrier. Besides, it's outright stated in original series, and by Toriyama himself, that Saiyans grow stronger the more they fight. And Toriyama's comment on that scenario goes the extra mile as he states that it's possible for Saiyans to even turn the tide in the middle of battle in their favor.
Things Saiyans have done...
-Gotten new transformations in the middle of a battle.
-Gotten stronger out of a desire to protect others.
Things Saiyans have not done...
-Gotten random unexplained power boosts because they are Saiyans.
Just because we didn't see it happen before, doesn't mean it can never happen. Because such a Saiyan trait of growing stronger in battle, at least according to Toriyama, does exist in-universe. It was just never utilized. Most likely because Toriyama decided to give with a more conventional Saiyan only power up (Zenkai).
Zenkai is said to be a Saiyan getting stronger while fighting. Toriyama could have been talking about Zenkais, tranfromations, and rage boosts. Also, if you need a toriyama interview to justify an unexplained event, then that's bad writing.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

User avatar
1345521
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:07 am

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by 1345521 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:00 pm

Pokesamus217 wrote:
1345521 wrote:
Bergamo wrote: Goku got stronger because he was able to improve his usage of ultra instinct. Once he mastered UI, any strength he acquired came out of nowhere. Do you know why Goku gets stronger in the same form? It's because he trains. Goku has never gotten stronger for no reason before.
Do you have any idea why this Lord Berrus user is ignoring every single comment of mine? It's kinda making me mad... :problem:
Well it’s likely he’s noticed that you have a habit of bashing the anime, while praising the manga, so he’s written you off as a lost cause.
Hmph, that bergamo guys literally does the same thing but and has been doing for it much longer. I literally came here like a few days ago. How in the world do you already make out your mind to block someone who barley even spoken to you. He must be a user from the youtube community who's reconziged me. On the youtube community, I'm very disliked from the super anime troopers factions because I give rationale reasons of why supers anime is mediocre that they struggle to forumate any rebuttals to my argument so instead of educating themselves, they just start to hate. Smh.
And speaking of that,
That bergamo is also ignoring me too. It may because I called him out on how toxic it is to use "cancer" to describe things you deem toxic. And now maybe because of that I get blocked? Tch... Ridcolous.
Anyway...
That guy is claiming Akira said sayains get stronger as they fight a battle. Is that true, and when did Akira say that?

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 21000
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:02 pm

Bergamo wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Bergamo wrote: Things Saiyans have done...
-Gotten new transformations in the middle of a battle.
-Gotten stronger out of a desire to protect others.
Things Saiyans have not done...
-Gotten random unexplained power boosts because they are Saiyans.
Just because we didn't see it happen before, doesn't mean it can never happen. Because such a Saiyan trait of growing stronger in battle, at least according to Toriyama, does exist in-universe. It was just never utilized. Most likely because Toriyama decided to give with a more conventional Saiyan only power up (Zenkai).
Zenkai is said to be a Saiyan getting stronger while fighting. Toriyama could have been talking about Zenkais, tranfromations, and rage boosts. Also, if you need a toriyama interview to justify an unexplained event, then that's bad writing.
The whole "Saiyan's grow stronger the more they fight" scenario is stated in the original manga, which Super is a continuation of. The methodology of how it can occur isn't set in stone either.

And what's wrong with using a Toriyama interview? It's no worse than fans using a guidebooks to justify their "battle power" theories or how certain scenarios in the manga, anime(s) or movies are left incredibly ambiguous, confusing or unexplained.

User avatar
Bergamo
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Bergamo » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:12 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: Just because we didn't see it happen before, doesn't mean it can never happen. Because such a Saiyan trait of growing stronger in battle, at least according to Toriyama, does exist in-universe. It was just never utilized. Most likely because Toriyama decided to give with a more conventional Saiyan only power up (Zenkai).
Zenkai is said to be a Saiyan getting stronger while fighting. Toriyama could have been talking about Zenkais, tranfromations, and rage boosts. Also, if you need a toriyama interview to justify an unexplained event, then that's bad writing.
The whole "Saiyan's grow stronger the more they fight" scenario is stated in the original manga, which Super is a continuation of. The methodology of how it can occur isn't set in stone either.

And what's wrong with using a Toriyama interview? It's no worse than fans using a guidebooks to justify their "battle power" theories or how certain scenarios in the manga, anime(s) or movies are left incredibly ambiguous, confusing or unexplained.
You can make an argument that this kind of makes sense, but I'm arguing that this is bad writing.
1345521 wrote:
Pokesamus217 wrote:
1345521 wrote: Do you have any idea why this Lord Berrus user is ignoring every single comment of mine? It's kinda making me mad... :problem:
Well it’s likely he’s noticed that you have a habit of bashing the anime, while praising the manga, so he’s written you off as a lost cause.
Hmph, that bergamo guys literally does the same thing but and has been doing for it much longer. I literally came here like a few days ago. How in the world do you already make out your mind to block someone who barley even spoken to you. He must be a user from the youtube community who's reconziged me. On the youtube community, I'm very disliked from the super anime troopers factions because I give rationale reasons of why supers anime is mediocre that they struggle to forumate any rebuttals to my argument so instead of educating themselves, they just start to hate. Smh.
And speaking of that,
That bergamo is also ignoring me too. It may because I called him out on how toxic it is to use "cancer" to describe things you deem toxic. And now maybe because of that I get blocked? Tch... Ridcolous.
Anyway...
That guy is claiming Akira said sayains get stronger as they fight a battle. Is that true, and when did Akira say that?
I'd appreciate it if you didn't accuse me of things.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

User avatar
1345521
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:07 am

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by 1345521 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:15 pm

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE FACT CHECK THIS LORD BERRUS, dude. He keeps saying sayains grow stronger IN battle as they are fighting, and claims it is STATED in the Orginal Manga. I've looked and haven't seen where they is stated in the manner of his interpretation. If sayains grew stronger as they fought: why didn't goku power up and defeat cell, or why didn't goku keep getting stronger to defeat Frieza (before ssj of Coruse) or why didn't he grow in strength to defeat kid buu? Someone please fact check this guy! He starting to say spread mis information and is INGORING ME for some unknown reason

User avatar
1345521
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:07 am

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by 1345521 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:21 pm

Bergamo wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Bergamo wrote: Zenkai is said to be a Saiyan getting stronger while fighting. Toriyama could have been talking about Zenkais, tranfromations, and rage boosts. Also, if you need a toriyama interview to justify an unexplained event, then that's bad writing.
The whole "Saiyan's grow stronger the more they fight" scenario is stated in the original manga, which Super is a continuation of. The methodology of how it can occur isn't set in stone either.

And what's wrong with using a Toriyama interview? It's no worse than fans using a guidebooks to justify their "battle power" theories or how certain scenarios in the manga, anime(s) or movies are left incredibly ambiguous, confusing or unexplained.
You can make an argument that this kind of makes sense, but I'm arguing that this is bad writing.
1345521 wrote:
Pokesamus217 wrote: Well it’s likely he’s noticed that you have a habit of bashing the anime, while praising the manga, so he’s written you off as a lost cause.
Hmph, that bergamo guys literally does the same thing but and has been doing for it much longer. I literally came here like a few days ago. How in the world do you already make out your mind to block someone who barley even spoken to you. He must be a user from the youtube community who's reconziged me. On the youtube community, I'm very disliked from the super anime troopers factions because I give rationale reasons of why supers anime is mediocre that they struggle to forumate any rebuttals to my argument so instead of educating themselves, they just start to hate. Smh.
And speaking of that,
That bergamo is also ignoring me too. It may because I called him out on how toxic it is to use "cancer" to describe things you deem toxic. And now maybe because of that I get blocked? Tch... Ridcolous.
Anyway...
That guy is claiming Akira said sayains get stronger as they fight a battle. Is that true, and when did Akira say that?
I'd appreciate it if you didn't accuse me of things.
I'm not accusing you of jack squat other then you have been ignoring every post I've replied to you WHICH IS A FACT. This is literally the first time you've responded to me, and I was just theorizing of why you have been ignoring me. No accusations. And you've been critizing the anime, and more supportive of the manga for longer then I have on this community which is also A FACT.

I didn't accuse you of anything you haven't been doing.

OH..re read the post. Everything I said from "how do you make up your mind...to.....all they do is just hate" was in response to lord berrus, not you.

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 21000
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:23 pm

Bergamo wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Bergamo wrote: Zenkai is said to be a Saiyan getting stronger while fighting. Toriyama could have been talking about Zenkais, tranfromations, and rage boosts. Also, if you need a toriyama interview to justify an unexplained event, then that's bad writing.
The whole "Saiyan's grow stronger the more they fight" scenario is stated in the original manga, which Super is a continuation of. The methodology of how it can occur isn't set in stone either.

And what's wrong with using a Toriyama interview? It's no worse than fans using a guidebooks to justify their "battle power" theories or how certain scenarios in the manga, anime(s) or movies are left incredibly ambiguous, confusing or unexplained.
You can make an argument that this kind of makes sense, but I'm arguing that this is bad writing.
Well then... I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and move on from this debate.

User avatar
R. Daneel Olivaw
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 7:33 pm

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by R. Daneel Olivaw » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:28 pm

1345521 wrote:CAN SOMEONE PLEASE FACT CHECK THIS LORD BERRUS, dude. He keeps saying sayains grow stronger IN battle as they are fighting, and claims it is STATED in the Orginal Manga. I've looked and haven't seen where they is stated in the manner of his interpretation. If sayains grew stronger as they fought: why didn't goku power up and defeat cell, or why didn't goku keep getting stronger to defeat Frieza (before ssj of Coruse) or why didn't he grow in strength to defeat kid buu? Someone please fact check this guy! He starting to say spread mis information and is INGORING ME for some unknown reason
The way you're coming across makes you sound immature. Your entire post is bolded, there are tons of caps and typos. Nobody owes you a response; freaking out when someone doesn't reply to you will just make them less willing to talk to you.
If it is true I don't think it means Saiyans get a constant power increase during every minute they're fighting like Ganos or Broly. Maybe it means during intense battles where everything is on the line they are able to surpass their limits and tap into new reserves of power.

User avatar
Bergamo
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Bergamo » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:43 pm

1345521 wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: The whole "Saiyan's grow stronger the more they fight" scenario is stated in the original manga, which Super is a continuation of. The methodology of how it can occur isn't set in stone either.

And what's wrong with using a Toriyama interview? It's no worse than fans using a guidebooks to justify their "battle power" theories or how certain scenarios in the manga, anime(s) or movies are left incredibly ambiguous, confusing or unexplained.
You can make an argument that this kind of makes sense, but I'm arguing that this is bad writing.
1345521 wrote: Hmph, that bergamo guys literally does the same thing but and has been doing for it much longer. I literally came here like a few days ago. How in the world do you already make out your mind to block someone who barley even spoken to you. He must be a user from the youtube community who's reconziged me. On the youtube community, I'm very disliked from the super anime troopers factions because I give rationale reasons of why supers anime is mediocre that they struggle to forumate any rebuttals to my argument so instead of educating themselves, they just start to hate. Smh.
And speaking of that,
That bergamo is also ignoring me too. It may because I called him out on how toxic it is to use "cancer" to describe things you deem toxic. And now maybe because of that I get blocked? Tch... Ridcolous.
Anyway...
That guy is claiming Akira said sayains get stronger as they fight a battle. Is that true, and when did Akira say that?
I'd appreciate it if you didn't accuse me of things.
I'm not accusing you of jack squat other then you have been ignoring every post I've replied to you WHICH IS A FACT. This is literally the first time you've responded to me, and I was just theorizing of why you have been ignoring me. No accusations. And you've been critizing the anime, and more supportive of the manga for longer then I have on this community which is also A FACT.

I didn't accuse you of anything you haven't been doing.

OH..re read the post. Everything I said from "how do you make up your mind...to.....all they do is just hate" was in response to lord berrus, not you.
I read your posts, I just don't respond unless I have anything to add.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

Post Reply