Toyotarou tracing thread

[PsionicWarrior]

So we got thrown out from the manga discussion thread, I hereby declare this thread open to discuss the tracing polemic by popular demand lol

[prince212]

And please respect different opinions , I don’t consider myself an ignorant just because I’m saying that looks like a partial trace but we can not assure a 100% for sure .not enough evidences , I’m not gonna call whoever does not understand my view an ignorant .
Did I trace ?

While I can see the point you’re trying to make with those pictures. It’s pretty obvious it’s not

Glad you see the point . I did trace . But nobody can tell 100% if I did or I didn’t

I see you're trying to copy Doctor's post, with the difference that his is actually funny and it makes sense, unlike yours. Epic fail, but nice try

idk what are you talking about , try to think by yourself without implying others .

I'm referencing this post:

I don't see any trace either in this image. Guess we were all wrong.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

It's quite clear what I'm talking about. You tried to replicate the humor. And failed. It's funny how you yell me to think for myself after copying someone else's joke.
Also, please explain to me what "implying others" means in this content because it's really unclear what you actually mean by that. Maybe you wanted to say "think for yourself without relying on others", or some other shit like that. Or maybe you meant "without implying that I copied off of others". Whatever it is, it's not easy to interpret xD

I’m not trying to make humor , just tell my opinion about how uncertain is to know if something is traced or copied.
You didn’t get what I meant
Again looks like partial trace but it’s imposible to know 100% with youtube gods proofs .
I really don’t care that much , is just that people call my opinion ignorant and I have the right to tell my opinion , it’s not a war that I’m defending anybody , I’m defending my thoughts . If tomorrow toyotaro states that he traced of they show a hidden camera with him and a transparent paper drawing that on top of capitan america , yes , we can tell he traced , but as we know , there’s no evidence , with a reference and copying, 2 draws can be the same or close without use the trace method. Yes it’s funny

[Dbzk1999]

Glad you see the point . I did trace . But nobody can tell 100% if I did or I didn’t

Uh, dude? It wasn’t that hard to tell. The very definition of tracing is to draw over something’s lines. The way that second picture is, again

A) the symmetry is all messed up compared to the first picture
B) the triangle isn’t completely together near the top
C) you can even see more than just one line on the left side

[prince212]

Glad you see the point . I did trace . But nobody can tell 100% if I did or I didn’t

Uh, dude? It wasn’t that hard to tell. The very definition of tracing is to draw over something’s lines. The way that second picture is, again

A) the symmetry is all messed up compared to the first picture
B) the triangle isn’t completely together near the top
C) you can even see more than just one line on the left side

I draw over the triangle, was trace , very badly , but trace , took my 10 seconds with my phone .
But it can be done the same without drawing over . If you add rotations , scales etc etc I’m sure you can find thousand and thousands of draws and blame them as trace
And again , I’m not saying that toyotaro didn’t trace . But I’m not saying he traced neither

[Vegeta_Sama]

And please respect different opinions , I don’t consider myself an ignorant just because I’m saying that looks like a partial trace but we can not assure a 100% for sure .not enough evidences , I’m not gonna call whoever does not understand my view an ignorant .
Did I trace ?

Glad you see the point . I did trace . But nobody can tell 100% if I did or I didn’t

idk what are you talking about , try to think by yourself without implying others .

I'm referencing this post:

I don't see any trace either in this image. Guess we were all wrong.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

It's quite clear what I'm talking about. You tried to replicate the humor. And failed. It's funny how you yell me to think for myself after copying someone else's joke.
Also, please explain to me what "implying others" means in this content because it's really unclear what you actually mean by that. Maybe you wanted to say "think for yourself without relying on others", or some other shit like that. Or maybe you meant "without implying that I copied off of others". Whatever it is, it's not easy to interpret xD

I’m not trying to make humor , just tell my opinion about how uncertain is to know if something is traced or copied.
You didn’t get what I meant
Again looks like partial trace but it’s imposible to know 100% with youtube gods proofs .
I really don’t care that much , is just that people call my opinion ignorant and I have the right to tell my opinion , it’s not a war that I’m defending anybody , I’m defending my thoughts . If tomorrow toyotaro states that he traced of they show a hidden camera with him and a transparent paper drawing that on top of capitan america , yes , we can tell he traced , but as we know , there’s no evidence , with a reference and copying, 2 draws can be the same or close without use the trace method. Yes it’s funny

Dude, you're all over the place. Why is this still even a debate? Toyotaro traced the body parts INDIVIDUALLY and then rotated them to best fit the drawing, but the fact that he traced is 100% undebatable. We don't need a freaking camera to see it, we already have the final result. About the joke, no, I got it, I'm not retarded, and the joke is not something that requires the highest level of IQ to understand. What's not been underatood is that you stole the joke from Doctor, with the ironic comment on top of a ridiculous picture, you can't deny that. If you didn't want to make humor like you said, you wouldn't have felt the need to make a joke posting those pics. That aside, even if we assume that he didn't trace, do you really think that an artist who draws something as popular as DB, can afford to be so uncreative and lazy, that he has to reference 80% of another artists drawing? That's acceptable for amateurs, but not for professionals, so it's wrong no matter how you look at it. Now, for the last time, IGNORANT is NOT another word for stupid, it's not an insult, it just means that you're not well prepared on a topic. And I doubt that you understand much about art, and that's why opinions of people who are knowledgable about it (Ajay, AND the artist who drew the original cover, a PROFESSIONAL mind you) are seen as more credible. It's not your fault that you're uneducated on the subject, it's your fault for trying to present it as a valid opinion. You can't just say something like "the sky is lime green" and expect people to agree with it, or even view it as a valid opinion.

[prince212]

Dude, you're all over the place. Why is this still even a debate? Toyotaro traced the body parts INDIVIDUALLY and then rotated them to best fit the drawing, but the fact that he traced is 100% undebatable. We don't need a freaking camera to see it, we already have the final result. About the joke, no, I got it, I'm not retarded, and the joke is not something that requires the highest level of IQ to understand. What's not been underatood is that you stole the joke from Doctor, with the ironic comment on top of a ridiculous picture, you can't deny that. If you didn't want to make humor like you said, you wouldn't have felt the need to make a joke posting those pics. That aside, even if we assume that he didn't trace, do you really think that an artist who draws something as popular as DB, can afford to be so uncreative and lazy, that he has to reference 80% of another artists drawing? That's acceptable for amateurs, but not for professionals, so it's wrong no matter how you look at it. Now, for the last time, IGNORANT is NOT another word for stupid, it's not an insult, it just means that you're not well prepared on a topic. And I doubt that you understand much about art, and that's why opinions of people who are knowledgable about it (Ajay, AND the artist who drew the original cover, a PROFESSIONAL mind you) are seen as more credible. It's not your fault that you're uneducated on the subject, it's your fault for trying to present it as a valid opinion. You can't just say something like "the sky is lime green" and expect people to agree with it, or even view it as a valid opinion.

You killed me , congrats , my opinion is not valid. Apologies

[PsionicWarrior]

I 100% agree with prince212, chopping off, rotating and adjusting multiple parts to have them fit doesn't work for me lol

And even if he did trace partly, what did the poor guy do to you so that you make a sherlock holmes video and feed more negative polemic on him at first supposed misstep, he gave us a great manga for the most part and at first doubt you guys lynch and burn him, just for the principle I choose the benefit of doubt lol

That aside, even if we assume that he didn't trace, do you really think that an artist who draws something as popular as DB, can afford to be so uncreative and lazy, that he has to reference 80% of another artists drawing? That's acceptable for amateurs, but not for professionals, so it's wrong no matter how you look at it.

Err sorry but I think literally every professional artist used to take a reference every now and then, that's part of learning new techniques and becoming better lol
Also Toyotarou's SPECIALTY is trying to imitate another artist (Toriyama) so creative may have not been his strongest point to begin with lol
Also I don't see from where you did you get that 80% aside from an intimate place that must smell like my opinion to you lol

As for the sky being green or whatever you do not know more than me about the tracing you just take Ajay's word for it lol

[Michsi]

Reference and tracing are not one and the same thing. Also, aside from a few jokes here and there on twitter I haven't seen any mob's being formed and charging at the artists with torches and pitchforks. I'd say a little severity is justified as it discourages this practice.

As I've said in the other thread, that Captain America image was the result of someone hard work, and I'm not just talking about the image itself, but the years put into developing the skill that allows an artists to be able to draw poses like that - this is what rubs people the wrong way, that someone tries to short-cut their way to this level.

[Vegeta_Sama]

I 100% agree with prince212, chopping off, rotating and adjusting multiple parts to have them fit doesn't work for me lol

And even if he did trace partly, what did the poor guy do to you so that you make a sherlock holmes video and feed more negative polemic on him at first supposed misstep, he gave us a great manga for the most part and at first doubt you guys lynch and burn him, just for the principle I choose the benefit of doubt lol

That aside, even if we assume that he didn't trace, do you really think that an artist who draws something as popular as DB, can afford to be so uncreative and lazy, that he has to reference 80% of another artists drawing? That's acceptable for amateurs, but not for professionals, so it's wrong no matter how you look at it.

Err sorry but I think literally every professional artist used to take a reference every now and then, that's part of learning new techniques and becoming better lol
Also Toyotarou's SPECIALTY is trying to imitate another artist (Toriyama) so creative may have not been his strongest point to begin with lol
Also I don't see from where you did you get that 80% aside from an intimate place that must smell like my opinion to you lol

As for the sky being green or whatever you do not know more than me about the tracing you just take Ajay's word for it lol

Yes, I don't know more about it, so I take the word of someone (2 people in fact) who knows more about it than both of us. You say it like it's a bad thing. "Oh, you belive the opinion of someone who knows about art ." It's just like saying "Oh, you take the medical advice of a doctor instead of your own!" Really, What's wrong about it? Nothing. This is not up for debate. If someone studied art for most of his life, he's gonna knkw more about it than you.
The 80% bit is not an accurate statistic, I made it up, obviously. I have no way of actually obtaining that number myself.
The only artists who refetence off of other people's work are amateurs. Professionals are way beyond that. Or at least they should be.
The fact that Toyotaro is good at copying Toriyama shouldn't give him a free pass on uncreativity and laziness. He's a professional artist, he should draw like one.
Also, it' s not like I hate his manga. I actually like it almost as much as the anime. That should not cloud my judgement though. He traced and it's wrong. I'm not even that mad about it, what pisses me off is how dedicated people are, "defending" him, and claiming that he didn't do it. Also, I know Toyotaro is a good artist when he tries, so it' s frustrating seeing him having to resort to these sort of acts.

[Vegeta_Sama]

You killed me , congrats , my opinion is not valid. Apologies

I- I KILLED YOU??! Holy shit, I hope I won't go to jail!

[PsionicWarrior]

He traced and it's wrong. I'm not even that mad about it, what pisses me off is how dedicated people are, "defending" him, and claiming that he didn't do it.

I'm not "defending" Toto, I'm just saying I have my doubts because even people in their field expertise can make mistakes lol
It's not because Ajay would know more about art than me that he's necessarily right lol
I tend more to think just maybe this was overkilled with the multiple chops and rotations everywhere and that Toto didn't do more than take a reference, I know I can be wrong but I have not seen solid enough evidence to be proved as such, at least yet so until I get an official statement from Toto confessing or something of similar weight, I'll stick to the other version lol

[Vegeta_Sama]

He traced and it's wrong. I'm not even that mad about it, what pisses me off is how dedicated people are, "defending" him, and claiming that he didn't do it.

I'm not "defending" Toto, I'm just saying I have my doubts because even people in their field expertise can make mistakes lol
It's not because Ajay would know more about art than me that he's necessarily right lol
I tend more to think just maybe this was overkilled with the multiple chops and rotations everywhere and that Toto didn't do more than take a reference, I know I can be wrong but I have not seen solid enough evidence to be proved as such, at least yet so until I get an official statement from Toto confessing or something of similar weight, I'll stick to the other version lol

Well, we'll just have fo agree to disagree then. Couple of thing I'd like to point out though, I was not referring to you in particular when I talked about people who defend Toyo, you just happened to enter the conversation later, but that was directed to others. Also, I don't doubt Ajay's opinion not because he can't make mistakes, but because the artist who drew the original Cap America also shares the same thoughts. I really don't think that two artists just happened to make a mistake on the same thing at the same time. Also, the fact that ALL of the body parts line up PERFECTLY with one another doesn't make you think? Nobody is saying that it was a perfect trace. It's like when you copy a friend's homeworks. You don't do the exact copy, you change a few things to make it look different, but the base is the same. That's what Toyo did, and that's why everything fits. He can use rotation tools too you know? There's no reason to belive that he hasn't done it.

[sintzu]

Tracing has been going on for awhile so I don't know why it's an issue now of all times.

You killed me , congrats , my opinion is not valid. Apologies

I- I KILLED YOU??! Holy shit, I hope I won't go to jail!

Your loyal fans will make sure that doesn't happen.

[Lord Beerus]

Tracing has been going on for awhile so I don't know why it's an issue now of all times.

Tracing will always be an issue, and should be appropriately be addressed. Just because it's been going on for a while, doesn't make it any less of a terrible thing to do from the perspective of an artist.

[prince212]

[dbgtFO]

https://imageshack.com/a/img922/427/CmURxp.jpg

That's awesome
I wonder what Toyo is doing though, no twitter activity since getting caught..
Maybe he has been so disgraced that he only had one thing on his mind.. sudoku!

[Logania]

The man can't even pick good art to trace, smh.

Caught cheating during the test and now Toriyama grounded him. No Twitter for a month.

[StardustCrusaderX]

Well, it's been a week since this whole tracing nonsense started. Since then, there have been no updates or statements from Toyotaro, VJump, and Shueisha about the matter. So at this point I think it's fair to say that this was never really a concern for them.

Just another case of fans(*cough*Geekdom101 *cough*AnimeAjay and other Twitter schmucks) blowing this out of proportion again. Besides VJump can't do a recall of the magazines and expect to change the cover. They'd lose money over that.

While on the subject of VJump, I will be citing a quote from Tokyosaurus' video of said matter: "(I don't doubt that there was some sort of reference to the scene of Captain America, but if this really was indeed a trace work and having being called out on Twitter, do you think VJump would still post links to the final cover of Toyotaro's work?)" As of right now, the links to download the cover are still available and working.

Anyway, I've rambled on long enough about my two cents about the matter. The only other thing I will say is that people are being biased and I look forward to the next manga chapter.

[JazzMazz]

Well, it's been a week since this whole tracing nonsense started. Since then, there have been no updates or statements from Toyotaro, VJump, and Shueisha about the matter. So at this point I think it's fair to say that this was never really a concern for them.

Just another case of fans(*cough*Geekdom101 *cough*AnimeAjay and other Twitter schmucks) blowing this out of proportion again. Besides VJump can't do a recall of the magazines and expect to change the cover. They'd lose money over that.

While on the subject of VJump, I will be citing a quote from Tokyosaurus' video of said matter: "(I don't doubt that there was some sort of reference to the scene of Captain America, but if this really was indeed a trace work and having being called out on Twitter, do you think VJump would still post links to the final cover of Toyotaro's work?)" As of right now, the links to download the cover are still available and working.

Anyway, I've rambled on long enough about my two cents about the matter. The only other thing I will say is that people are being biased and I look forward to the next manga chapter.

Weren't the people who blew the whole thing out of proportion the people that adamantly denied Toyo traced?

As far as I'm concerned, V Jump has no legal obligation to recall the magazine, because there has been no legal action taken against them to do yet.

I think its also worth noting, that this entire fiasco came from Toyotaro's own naivety, when he posted his initial draft for the final pose of the cover, which lead to someone discovering the original artwork. If Toyo hadn't done that, I doubt this would ever have happened.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I stopped reading the manga over Toyotaro's lack of creativeness this whole debacle just underlines that. What a stupid thing to do not only to trace to upload the bloody sketch too. This is what happens when you lack ideas you'll eventually stop ripping off ideas from the own series and go beyond it.

Now all eyes will be on his work even closely now and now people won't just be looking for internal DB "refrences" anymore.