Did the dub make EP 66 clearer?

[Xeogran]

Still failed. Regardless of how you look at it. He didn’t manage to destroy Zamasu’s physical body unlike Trunks. “Was about to” is different from “did”. And it certainly didn’t look like he was about to either. Hell even a full power Final Kamehameha didn’t even PUT A DENT in Zamasu’s armor. He was completely unfazed by it. I would have at least expected him to regenerate something like a lost limb after that, but no. He took Vegetto’s Final Kamehameha head on.

Finally someone who shares my exact mind. I can't believe Vegetto's final punch would somehow obliterate Zamasu beyond his regeneration. Unlike his Z-self, he had no reason to be playing around here, and if Final Kamehameha did nothing then why would a punch to the face?

[majinwarman]

I think it's because it's your spoken language and not just some foreign language subtitled into your language, thus you feel more connected to it and can accept it more easily.
Unless of course they changed something in the script.
I haven't seen the english dub at all, so I have no idea.

I think it is this too. For me every episode has been better when I have watched it dubbed. Bad episodes suddenly tolerable, good episodes where great and great episodes were fantastic! The Mafuba episode of the Trunks arc originally watching it I didn't even finish the episode properly just skipped to the fusion part, but the dubbed episode a few weeks ago? Flew by and I was like wow this wasn't as bad as I remembered. About the Japanese it is like I am being told what is being said as opposed to me hearing and experiencing it, it is why I prefer anime dubbed (and why FUNi's simuldub initiative was a blessing.)

I'm not a huge fan of dubs so I just saw the same problems I saw before when I watched this episode back in 2016.

[dbs fanboy]

Not in my case, i actually got all of this from the sub as well. Thought to be honest, i had to rewatch it like 2 times to get it.
Oh and about Trunks managing to create a spirit sword, i simply take it as a symbolical moment, you know, as the kind of situation in which a miracle happens and there's no explanation to what is going on. You just go with the flow.

It's the power of love and friendship. No matter how powerful and divine your opponent is, if you TRULY believe in something, then nothing can stand in your way!

Such a cringe-worthy episode, now that I think about it. At least Zamasu will have his revenge in the next episode. There is some justice, after all...

That honestly makes it even better imo. It's like, you have this big moment, the mortals finally defeating the god with the most powerful weapon used in anime, and then boom, everyone dies. Rewatching it feels different when you know how it's going to end.

[Fionordequester]

Finally someone who shares my exact mind. I can't believe Vegetto's final punch would somehow obliterate Zamasu beyond his regeneration. Unlike his Z-self, he had no reason to be playing around here, and if Final Kamehameha did nothing then why would a punch to the face?

That...yeah, I really don't know how to explain how seemingly ineffective the Final Kamehameha was. But Vegetto seemed to imply that he was just about to finish Zamasu off, both in the sub and the dub, so...I dunno?

I said the dub made things clearER...not that it made it perfect

[Tectorman]

Our opinions couldn’t be any different. Episode 67 is definitely no worse than episode 66. Zeno erasing everything makes PERFECT sense. SSJ Blue Goku beating Merged Zamasu head on in a beam struggle on the other hand does not. And even if we were to take this logic that Goku was that strong, then a SSJ Blue Vegito formed by THAT Goku should have defeated Merged Zamasu with two hands tight behind his back in less than a minute. Since that Vegito is made up of THAT Goku who beat Merged Zamasu. Can you see where this logic of Toei is going? What’s worse, the all beloved Vegito, with his huge, faithful fanbase, only appeared for 5 minutes, in which he didn’t do anything impressive against MZ, of the 1 hour (now retconned, which is another problem but okay) timelimit. And to make matters worse, a Spirit Sword by Trunks was apparently more powerful than a Potara Fusion, which obviously doesn’t make any sense. So you tell me of an episode with worse powerscaling?

If we are talking strictly in terms of powerscaling, then yes, it is an awful episode and the worst in DBS for sure. But speaking generally about the episode it was an episode with tons of tension, epic moments, and the narrative of Trunks saving his Future with the power of the people he is fighting for is there. Also, the part of Trunks doing better than Vegetto isn't thatbad since Zamasu was so heavily damaged by the time Trunks cut him in two. The "retcon" although strange, doesn't actually contradict DBZ since Goku and Vegeta also defused in less than an hour in DBZ. They rationalized it by some crap in Buu's stomach but now we have a better explanation.

The "bad atmosphere" in Buu's stomach wasn't a bad explanation, though. It more than sufficed when it happened. I would have greatly preferred the retcon be more like:

"So the last time we fused with these, we were told it would be permanent but it wasn't. Why was that?"
"Potara earrings only result in permanent fusions when the two beings who used them were originally kais. For anyone else, it only lasts an hour."
"Ohh, so that's- wait. I don't think we were even fused for an hour, though. We defused right after we let ourselves get absorbed to rescue our friends."
"Hmm. Well, I don't know what you were fighting, specifically, but there are certain kinds of magically powerful beings out there that could have accelerated your fusion's end if you were somehow inside them."

Because length of the episodes aside (which of course we're discounting because otherwise five minutes would be about two hours long), I never got the impression that Vegetto's fight with Buu had been for a full hour. The "bad atmosphere" really needed to still be a part of the reason why that fusion ended when it did, even if we're also adding a time limit to the mix.

Now, I want to hear more about the second coming of Bruce Faulconer...

[GodVegetto91]

It just makes no sense that Merged Zamasu, who lost to Goku, was giving SSJ Blue Vegetto such a hard time. Normally, villains who have regeneration abilities and/or are nearly indestructible, are always shown losing a part of their body, to show that our heroes are strong. Yet, that didn’t even happen with Vegetto! It’s humiliating and downright disrespectful towards Vegetto!

[SupremeKai25]

It just makes no sense that Merged Zamasu, who lost to Goku, was giving SSJ Blue Vegetto such a hard time

But it makes sense for Goku to utterly overpower Fused Zamasu when he was getting bodied by Black?

Normally, villains who have regeneration abilities and/or are nearly indestructible, are always shown losing a part of their body, to show that our heroes are strong.

Fused Zamasu's regeneration ability was flawed due to the mortal half of Black, and indeed half of Fused Zamasu's body had effectively melted. That was actually more significant, because whereas other villains could just shrug off the damage and regenerate, Fused Zamasu couldn't, since his body was unstable, and he ended up having half of his body turned into dead and corrupted flesh.

It’s humiliating and downright disrespectful towards Vegetto!

It's called 'karma'. Vegetto is always extremely rude, condescending and disrespectful towards his opponents, so he deserves the poor treatment that he received in this show.

[dbgtFO]

It just makes no sense that Merged Zamasu, who lost to Goku, was giving SSJ Blue Vegetto such a hard time!

You don't buy that Zamasu powered up enough to match Vegetto?
Because that's what happened, it's not like they had the first form of Merged Zamasu go up against Vegetto.

[GodVegetto91]

It just makes no sense that Merged Zamasu, who lost to Goku, was giving SSJ Blue Vegetto such a hard time!

You don't buy that Zamasu powered up enough to match Vegetto?
Because that's what happened, it's not like they had the first form of Merged Zamasu go up against Vegetto.

There is NO evidence that either Zamasu was holding back against Goku OR that he powered up against Vegetto.

[dbgtFO]

It just makes no sense that Merged Zamasu, who lost to Goku, was giving SSJ Blue Vegetto such a hard time!

You don't buy that Zamasu powered up enough to match Vegetto?
Because that's what happened, it's not like they had the first form of Merged Zamasu go up against Vegetto.

There is NO evidence that either Zamasu was holding back against Goku OR that he powered up against Vegetto.

You didn't consider the whole "A God that can't defeat mortals is useless!" line followed by getting blasted by lightning and then gaining a bigger arm and a new purple and more menacing aura a power up?

[GodVegetto91]

You don't buy that Zamasu powered up enough to match Vegetto?
Because that's what happened, it's not like they had the first form of Merged Zamasu go up against Vegetto.

There is NO evidence that either Zamasu was holding back against Goku OR that he powered up against Vegetto.

You didn't consider the whole "A God that can't defeat mortals is useless!" line followed by getting blasted by lightning and then gaining a bigger arm and a new purple and more menacing aura a power up?

He just grew bigger and slowed down. Just like Cell, just like Trunks. It’s all for show. There was no true power-up. And definitely not a speed increase!

[SupremeKai25]

There is NO evidence that either Zamasu was holding back against Goku OR that he powered up against Vegetto.

You didn't consider the whole "A God that can't defeat mortals is useless!" line followed by getting blasted by lightning and then gaining a bigger arm and a new purple and more menacing aura a power up?

He just grew bigger and slowed down. Just like Cell, just like Trunks. It’s all for show. There was no true power-up. And definitely not a speed increase!

It wasn't all for show. Fused Zamasu was overpowered by Goku alone, so if he hadn't increased in power, he would have been stomped by Vegito. But he wasn't.

Also, No, He did not grow bigger and slow down until after the fight against Vegito had already started.

[Cetra]

There is NO evidence that either Zamasu was holding back against Goku OR that he powered up against Vegetto.

You didn't consider the whole "A God that can't defeat mortals is useless!" line followed by getting blasted by lightning and then gaining a bigger arm and a new purple and more menacing aura a power up?

He just grew bigger and slowed down. Just like Cell, just like Trunks. It’s all for show. There was no true power-up. And definitely not a speed increase!

That's a lot of denying considering the scene is basically the whole "Zamasu flips out because things do not go as planned against Goku and gets serious" that also happened in the manga, which was also when he started getting serious. Only that in the manga he was like "screw that shit, Imma destroy this whole galaxy" instead of getting a giant masturbation arm.

[GodVegetto91]

You didn't consider the whole "A God that can't defeat mortals is useless!" line followed by getting blasted by lightning and then gaining a bigger arm and a new purple and more menacing aura a power up?

He just grew bigger and slowed down. Just like Cell, just like Trunks. It’s all for show. There was no true power-up. And definitely not a speed increase!

It wasn't all for show. Fused Zamasu was overpowered by Goku alone, so if he hadn't increased in power, he would have been stomped by Vegito. But he wasn't.

Also, No, He did not grow bigger and slow down until after the fight against Vegito had already started.

It should have been mentioned that he got stronger. Such things need mentioning. It wasn’t mentioned. On the contrary, they said he was reforming and getting uglier instead of regenerating.

[SupremeKai25]

It should have been mentioned that he got stronger. Such things need mentioning. It wasn’t mentioned.

Except that said things don't need mentioning when it is made painfully obvious by the writers. Common logic dictates that Fused Zamasu grew more powerful after he damaged himself with the Divine Light of Justice, since before that, he was overpowered by Goku, but after that, he was able to keep up with Vegito. Therefore, there was a leap in power.

In fact, Black himself grew powerful by striking himself in the end, when he plunged his sword into his hand, and used his own pain and anger as a fuel to increase his strength exponentially. Fused Zamasu did the same thing with the Light of Justice (especially since he was angry at his failure to vanquish evil and considered himself a weak God).

Don't take this as an offense, but you are the first person I've seen that didn't get that Fused Zamasu became more powerful when he damaged himself.

[GodVegetto91]

It should have been mentioned that he got stronger. Such things need mentioning. It wasn’t mentioned.

Except that said things don't need mentioning when it is made painfully obvious by the writers. Common logic dictates that Fused Zamasu grew more powerful after he damaged himself with the Divine Light of Justice, since before that, he was overpowered by Goku, but after that, he was able to keep up with Vegito. Therefore, there was a leap in power.

In fact, Black himself grew powerful by striking himself in the end, when he plunged his sword into his hand, and used his own pain and anger as a fuel to increase his strength exponentially. Fused Zamasu did the same thing with the Light of Justice (especially since he was angry at his failure to vanquish evil and considered himself a weak God).

Don't take this as an offense, but you are the first person I've seen that didn't get that Fused Zamasu became more powerful when he damaged himself.

No it was not made “painfully obvious”. The fact that i didn’t “get it”. And how i was wondering how MZ was able to fight on par with Vegito Blue proves that. The writers did a poor job in conveying that message in this one. But hey, Opinions. So lets just agree to disagree then.

If it was made “painfully obvious” by the writers than i should have at least noticed it. I’m usually very good at noticing these things. The fact that i didn’t proves they did a poor job in conveying the message.

[SupremeKai25]

It should have been mentioned that he got stronger. Such things need mentioning. It wasn’t mentioned.

Except that said things don't need mentioning when it is made painfully obvious by the writers. Common logic dictates that Fused Zamasu grew more powerful after he damaged himself with the Divine Light of Justice, since before that, he was overpowered by Goku, but after that, he was able to keep up with Vegito. Therefore, there was a leap in power.

In fact, Black himself grew powerful by striking himself in the end, when he plunged his sword into his hand, and used his own pain and anger as a fuel to increase his strength exponentially. Fused Zamasu did the same thing with the Light of Justice (especially since he was angry at his failure to vanquish evil and considered himself a weak God).

Don't take this as an offense, but you are the first person I've seen that didn't get that Fused Zamasu became more powerful when he damaged himself.

No it was not made “painfully obvious”. The fact that i didn’t “get it”. And how i was wondering how MZ was able to fight on par with Vegito Blue proves that. The writers did a poor job in conveying that message in this one. But hey, Opinions. So lets just agree to disagree then.

If it was made “painfully obvious” by the writers than i should have at least noticed it. I’m usually very good at noticing these things. The fact that i didn’t proves they did a poor job in conveying the message.

Honestly, what is so wrong with Fused Zamasu becoming stronger after damaging himself with the Light of Justice? It is coherent with Black's power (who was able to become stronger by striking himself), and it explains how Fused Zamasu was able to match Vegito. I don't see why you absolutely loathe this notion.

[GodVegetto91]

Except that said things don't need mentioning when it is made painfully obvious by the writers. Common logic dictates that Fused Zamasu grew more powerful after he damaged himself with the Divine Light of Justice, since before that, he was overpowered by Goku, but after that, he was able to keep up with Vegito. Therefore, there was a leap in power.

In fact, Black himself grew powerful by striking himself in the end, when he plunged his sword into his hand, and used his own pain and anger as a fuel to increase his strength exponentially. Fused Zamasu did the same thing with the Light of Justice (especially since he was angry at his failure to vanquish evil and considered himself a weak God).

Don't take this as an offense, but you are the first person I've seen that didn't get that Fused Zamasu became more powerful when he damaged himself.

No it was not made “painfully obvious”. The fact that i didn’t “get it”. And how i was wondering how MZ was able to fight on par with Vegito Blue proves that. The writers did a poor job in conveying that message in this one. But hey, Opinions. So lets just agree to disagree then.

If it was made “painfully obvious” by the writers than i should have at least noticed it. I’m usually very good at noticing these things. The fact that i didn’t proves they did a poor job in conveying the message.

Honestly, what is so wrong with Fused Zamasu becoming stronger after damaging himself with the Light of Justice? It is coherent with Black's power (who was able to become stronger by striking himself), and it explains how Fused Zamasu was able to match Vegito. I don't see why you absolutely loathe this notion.

I don’t loath it, it just wasn’t made clear enough to me. He became ugly and deformed. His body was even starting to break down as said by Gowasu. That hardly sounds like someone who gets a healthy power-up, right? That was the idea i got. Him getting even weaker as opposed to getting stronger. But if he did get a genuine power up as you guys state, than so be it. I only now learned about it thanks to you guys for pointing it out.

[Fionordequester]

His body was even starting to break down as said by Gowasu. That hardly sounds like someone who gets a healthy power-up, right? That was the idea i got. Him getting even weaker as opposed to getting stronger. But if he did get a genuine power up as you guys state, than so be it. I only now learned about it thanks to you guys for pointing it out.

I think it's both. He is powering up...but he's "powering up" in a way that's ultimately damaging him in the long run. Kind of like using steroids. You get stronger in the short-term...but in the long term, there's gonna be hell to pay. And eventually, you're body's just not going to be able to keep up with everything you're doing to it.

Ultimately, that kind of ties back into one of the most disturbing things about Zamasu; the way he'll tear apart his own body to get what he wants. The sadistic smile Black gets when Goku or Vegeta are laying the smackdown on him, the crazed laughter Unfused Zamasu does when hit by Trunk's Final Flash, the psychotic giggle Black does when stabbing his own hand...none of these are "healthy" behaviors in the slightest. Even when Zamasu eventually wins in Episode 67, he's "won" in a way that renders it all completely meaningless. He's literally just a giant screen saver in the sky .

[GodVegetto91]

His body was even starting to break down as said by Gowasu. That hardly sounds like someone who gets a healthy power-up, right? That was the idea i got. Him getting even weaker as opposed to getting stronger. But if he did get a genuine power up as you guys state, than so be it. I only now learned about it thanks to you guys for pointing it out.

I think it's both. He is powering up...but he's "powering up" in a way that's ultimately damaging him in the long run. Kind of like using steroids. You get stronger in the short-term...but in the long term, there's gonna be hell to pay. And eventually, you're body's just not going to be able to keep up with everything you're doing to it.

Ultimately, that kind of ties back into one of the most disturbing things about Zamasu; the way he'll tear apart his own body to get what he wants. The sadistic smile Black gets when Goku or Vegeta are laying the smackdown on him, the crazed laughter Unfused Zamasu does when hit by Trunk's Final Flash, the psychotic giggle Black does when stabbing his own hand...none of these are "healthy" behaviors in the slightest. Even when Zamasu eventually wins in Episode 67, he's "won" in a way that renders it all completely meaningless. He's literally just a giant screen saver in the sky .

Good points you make. Thanks. Yeah they’re quite psychotic and masochistic. Actually enjoying pain.

However, the fact that Merged Zamasu was able to keep up with Vegito then PROVES that he got an extremely huge boost from that lightning. Since earlier he lost to Goku, and now he was keeping up with Vegito initially. And we all know how much of a boost a potara fusion brings to Goku.