Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Bergamo
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 967
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

Post by Bergamo » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:56 pm

I hear this often, and I don't get it. Just because hit wasn't 10 times the strength of the previous villain doesn't mean he's weak. Hit's performance in the manga was actually pretty standard. The fight was basically even in the end after Hit hurt his arm and Goku used up most of his energy, yet people act like Goku stomped Hit. It also doesn't make sense to say, "Why didn't Goku use Blue at the beginning," because Goku didn't know how to counter Hit's abilities, and he was hesitant to use his full strength. It's also the same as saying, "Why didn't Roshi/Tien use the Bankoku Bikkuri Shou/Kikoho at the beginning."

Hit vs Jiren in the manga actually made Hit look stronger than Goku(and by extension Merged Zamas) with him having roughly equal strength alongside his time techniques. The battle also played out mostly the same in both versions.

Hit uses the timeskip on Jiren->It doesn't work->He uses the time cage/time lag->Jiren is trapped and Hit gains the upper hand->Jiren starts to break out of the technique->Hit tries to finish Jiren off quickly->Hit fails and is eliminated

If Hit's performance is so standard, why is he treated as a weakling? Is there something I'm not taking into account?
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

User avatar
Lord Frieza
I Live Here
Posts: 3698
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:36 pm

Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

Post by Lord Frieza » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:19 pm

From what I remember during their first meeting Goku already had an edge on Hit as a SSG. While the fight ends in a draw Goku has Hit on the back foot with a weaker form and is noticable stronger than him with plain old Blue

In the anime it's different. Hit dominates Blue Goku, forcing him to use the Kaio-Ken to get the edge and Hit is handy capped by the no killing rule and adapted his time-skip further to dodge even a 10x stronger Goku.

If manga Goku be able to use KK he'd have dropped Hit with one punch.


As for his Fight with Jiren, I don't see how it makes one stronger then the other. Both time abilites affectively weaken/slow down the target, allowing Hit to take control for a bit. Hax powers are not an idication of strength. The only thing I can think of is that Manga Hit performs his technique while Jiren is just charging while Anime Hit works to create an opening in Jiren's defences to land the attack.
Moro the Planet-Eater

User avatar
JazzMazz
I Live Here
Posts: 2198
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:28 am
Location: Mordor, the Borg cube and Voldemort's lair all at the same time in the year 199X

Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

Post by JazzMazz » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:58 pm

His considered weak, because he was never shown to be strong.

Outside of his first victory of Vegeta, which is immediately diminished later on, Hit never really has an actual upper hand against an opponent. His fight with Goku is extraordinarily one sided. Hit had no chance against at all. I keep on hear people say that "Oh they were even because Goku used most of his energy in the Kamehameha". That's a load of crap. Yes Blue probably used a lot of energy, but so did Hit, who not only took the attack, but could no longer access his full power that was barely stronger than SSG Goku's to begin with, not mention there is nothing in the fight that indicated that Goku would at all have trouble with Hit if they continued. Its also not helped by the fact that Vegeta confirms that Goku could have won that fight if he felt like it.

As for Hit vs Jiren, that fight is bad in both the manga and anime, with the manga only really being marginally better. Its still incredibly one sided and though the results in both are the same, I think its worth noting that the anime gave Hit far more screen presence, meaning his defeat actually had some impact on us as an audience member. Hit in the manga, is treated as a joke, and is a joke in that fight, with Belmond and Toppo chastising how childish and juvenile Hit's strategy was.

I think the biggest thing your not taking into account, is that Hit in the manga doesn't have any real standout moments as a fighter. In the anime, they didn't diminish the value of Hits victory over Vegeta(not to mention the fight was far better in the anime). The fight with Goku isn't one sided the moments Goku gets serious, with both Goku and Hit both getting the upper hand at crucial portions of the fight. The mini assassination arc also helped, with Hit temporarily killing Goku, then after an extended mostly one sided battle, drawing with Goku. Hit also had his fight against Dyspo, which was one of the best of the TOP, as it genuinely bothered to utilize strategy and cunning. Yes, anime's Hits defeat is admittedly underwhelming, but he still had a lot of great stuff leading up to that. Manga Hit, didn't really have anything.

User avatar
Bergamo
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 967
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

Post by Bergamo » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:28 pm

JazzMazz wrote:His considered weak, because he was never shown to be strong.

Outside of his first victory of Vegeta, which is immediately diminished later on, Hit never really has an actual upper hand against an opponent. His fight with Goku is extraordinarily one sided. Hit had no chance against at all. I keep on hear people say that "Oh they were even because Goku used most of his energy in the Kamehameha". That's a load of crap. Yes Blue probably used a lot of energy, but so did Hit, who not only took the attack, but could no longer access his full power that was barely stronger than SSG Goku's to begin with, not mention there is nothing in the fight that indicated that Goku would at all have trouble with Hit if they continued. Its also not helped by the fact that Vegeta confirms that Goku could have won that fight if he felt like it.

As for Hit vs Jiren, that fight is bad in both the manga and anime, with the manga only really being marginally better. Its still incredibly one sided and though the results in both are the same, I think its worth noting that the anime gave Hit far more screen presence, meaning his defeat actually had some impact on us as an audience member. Hit in the manga, is treated as a joke, and is a joke in that fight, with Belmond and Toppo chastising how childish and juvenile Hit's strategy was.

I think the biggest thing your not taking into account, is that Hit in the manga doesn't have any real standout moments as a fighter. In the anime, they didn't diminish the value of Hits victory over Vegeta(not to mention the fight was far better in the anime). The fight with Goku isn't one sided the moments Goku gets serious, with both Goku and Hit both getting the upper hand at crucial portions of the fight. The mini assassination arc also helped, with Hit temporarily killing Goku, then after an extended mostly one sided battle, drawing with Goku. Hit also had his fight against Dyspo, which was one of the best of the TOP, as it genuinely bothered to utilize strategy and cunning. Yes, anime's Hits defeat is admittedly underwhelming, but he still had a lot of great stuff leading up to that. Manga Hit, didn't really have anything.
I see, so because Hit is seen as always doing sort-of-good, or not-so-bad in the manga, he didn't make as much of an impact. Thanks for clearing that up.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

Post by sintzu » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:28 am

In the anime Hit is above Goku and Vegeta's Blue while in the manga Goku put up a good fight in Red while also stating that Vegeta could've easily taken him down in Blue. In the anime we're told that Hit can get stronger depending on who he's fighting which is never brought up in the manga.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Cure Dragon 255
I Live Here
Posts: 3437
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 5:23 pm

Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:40 am

Because he does not say "Time To Make The Donuts."
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:I will not be satisfied until my pessimism crushes your spirit.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

User avatar
The gr
I Live Here
Posts: 2837
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:58 pm

Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

Post by The gr » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:32 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:Because he does not say "Time To Make The Donuts."
And he didn't said "My time skip is unbeatable".
    I definitely think Hit was one the worst handled character in the Manga, he is underwhelming all thanks to that stupid line of Vegeta losing his power when he fought Hit and that awful fight with Goku.It doesn't help he did nothing impressive in the Top prior to his elimination.

    Zen Yabuki
    Not-So-Newbie
    Posts: 81
    Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:51 pm

    Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

    Post by Zen Yabuki » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:49 pm

    JazzMazz wrote:His considered weak, because he was never shown to be strong.

    Outside of his first victory of Vegeta, which is immediately diminished later on, Hit never really has an actual upper hand against an opponent. His fight with Goku is extraordinarily one sided. Hit had no chance against at all. I keep on hear people say that "Oh they were even because Goku used most of his energy in the Kamehameha". That's a load of crap. Yes Blue probably used a lot of energy, but so did Hit, who not only took the attack, but could no longer access his full power that was barely stronger than SSG Goku's to begin with, not mention there is nothing in the fight that indicated that Goku would at all have trouble with Hit if they continued. Its also not helped by the fact that Vegeta confirms that Goku could have won that fight if he felt like it.

    As for Hit vs Jiren, that fight is bad in both the manga and anime, with the manga only really being marginally better. Its still incredibly one sided and though the results in both are the same, I think its worth noting that the anime gave Hit far more screen presence, meaning his defeat actually had some impact on us as an audience member. Hit in the manga, is treated as a joke, and is a joke in that fight, with Belmond and Toppo chastising how childish and juvenile Hit's strategy was.

    I think the biggest thing your not taking into account, is that Hit in the manga doesn't have any real standout moments as a fighter. In the anime, they didn't diminish the value of Hits victory over Vegeta(not to mention the fight was far better in the anime). The fight with Goku isn't one sided the moments Goku gets serious, with both Goku and Hit both getting the upper hand at crucial portions of the fight. The mini assassination arc also helped, with Hit temporarily killing Goku, then after an extended mostly one sided battle, drawing with Goku. Hit also had his fight against Dyspo, which was one of the best of the TOP, as it genuinely bothered to utilize strategy and cunning. Yes, anime's Hits defeat is admittedly underwhelming, but he still had a lot of great stuff leading up to that. Manga Hit, didn't really have anything.
    This is really it. Though I like and feel the fight between Hit and Jiren was better in the anime. But your overall point I agree with. He never really looked strong in the manga version.

    jplaya2023
    Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
    Posts: 459
    Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:49 am

    Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

    Post by jplaya2023 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:49 pm

    because outside that fake tournament he was completely underwhelming.

    User avatar
    Bergamo
    OMG CRAZY REG
    Posts: 967
    Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

    Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

    Post by Bergamo » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:06 pm

    jplaya2023 wrote:because outside that fake tournament he was completely underwhelming.
    Fake tournament?
    My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

    DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

    jplaya2023
    Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
    Posts: 459
    Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:49 am

    Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

    Post by jplaya2023 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:12 pm

    Bergamo wrote:
    jplaya2023 wrote:because outside that fake tournament he was completely underwhelming.
    Fake tournament?
    U6 vs U7 i call it a fake tournament. It wasn't the big one we got now.

    User avatar
    Bergamo
    OMG CRAZY REG
    Posts: 967
    Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

    Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

    Post by Bergamo » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:14 pm

    jplaya2023 wrote:
    Bergamo wrote:
    jplaya2023 wrote:because outside that fake tournament he was completely underwhelming.
    Fake tournament?
    U6 vs U7 i call it a fake tournament. It wasn't the big one we got now.
    I have no idea what you're trying to communicate. Are you saying it's a fake tournament because it's not as important as the ToP, because by that logic the 21st and 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai are fake as well, because they weren't as narratively important as the 23rd.
    My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

    DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

    jplaya2023
    Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
    Posts: 459
    Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:49 am

    Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

    Post by jplaya2023 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:18 pm

    Bergamo wrote:
    jplaya2023 wrote:
    Bergamo wrote: Fake tournament?
    U6 vs U7 i call it a fake tournament. It wasn't the big one we got now.
    I have no idea what you're trying to communicate. Are you saying it's a fake tournament because it's not as important as the ToP, because by that logic the 21st and 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai are fake as well, because they weren't as narratively important as the 23rd.
    those were entirely different. Anyway i called it a fake tournament because it was building up to the TOP along with goku and others fighting the bergamo and his siblings. just a buildup

    User avatar
    Bergamo
    OMG CRAZY REG
    Posts: 967
    Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

    Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

    Post by Bergamo » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:23 pm

    jplaya2023 wrote:
    Bergamo wrote:
    jplaya2023 wrote:
    U6 vs U7 i call it a fake tournament. It wasn't the big one we got now.
    I have no idea what you're trying to communicate. Are you saying it's a fake tournament because it's not as important as the ToP, because by that logic the 21st and 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai are fake as well, because they weren't as narratively important as the 23rd.
    those were entirely different. Anyway i called it a fake tournament because it was building up to the TOP along with goku and others fighting the bergamo and his siblings. just a buildup
    The King Piccolo arc built towards Goku winning the Tenkaichi Budokai and saving the world. I wouldn't call that a fake arc though. The fact is that u6 vs u6 is just as valid a part of the story as anything else.
    My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

    DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

    ankokudaishogun
    Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
    Posts: 491
    Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:07 pm

    Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

    Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:18 pm

    Also: Anime Hit actually managed to hit Jiren AND to have him put some visible effort... and this AFTER Jiren was shown\stated on the level of a GoD while not being serious.
    Hell, Jiren going to meditate after defeating Hit marks Hit as "Strong" because Jiren felt he was necessary to defeat him but not, say, Vegeta.

    User avatar
    Bergamo
    OMG CRAZY REG
    Posts: 967
    Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

    Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

    Post by Bergamo » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:45 pm

    ankokudaishogun wrote:Also: Anime Hit actually managed to hit Jiren AND to have him put some visible effort... and this AFTER Jiren was shown\stated on the level of a GoD while not being serious.
    Hell, Jiren going to meditate after defeating Hit marks Hit as "Strong" because Jiren felt he was necessary to defeat him but not, say, Vegeta.
    Hit made Jiren stop suppressing himself in the manga, and he hit him so hard he went bug-eyed.
    My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

    DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

    User avatar
    Miracles
    I Live Here
    Posts: 2434
    Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

    Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

    Post by Miracles » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:28 pm

    Toriyama doesn't care for Hit.
    Last edited by Miracles on Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
    "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."~Psalm 14:1

    User avatar
    prince212
    OMG CRAZY REG
    Posts: 789
    Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:30 pm
    Location: wild west

    Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

    Post by prince212 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:29 pm

    Hit weak ? Is that a joke ? He’s not as strong as Jiren and goku .. but weak ?
    He was the first to score a good punch on Jiren , both anime and manga , prior to goku who tried but couldn’t.
    I don’t consider him weak , he’s top 5 easy .
    His fighting style Doesn’t rely on strength , but he’s not weak
    It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

    Zen Yabuki
    Not-So-Newbie
    Posts: 81
    Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:51 pm

    Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

    Post by Zen Yabuki » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:06 am

    Miracles wrote:Toriyama doesn't care for Hit.
    I always figured he never cared as much about the character as fans do. But I don’t really have much to actually prove that
    prince212 wrote:Hit weak ? Is that a joke ? He’s not as strong as Jiren and goku .. but weak ?
    He was the first to score a good punch on Jiren , both anime and manga , prior to goku who tried but couldn’t.
    I don’t consider him weak , he’s top 5 easy .
    His fighting style Doesn’t rely on strength , but he’s not weak
    Problem is his fighting style as cool as it is does need strength to back it up due to the nature of the series itself. He is top 5 though I agree.

    User avatar
    Miracles
    I Live Here
    Posts: 2434
    Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

    Re: Why do people consider Hit weak in the manga?

    Post by Miracles » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:49 am

    Zen Yabuki wrote:I always figured he never cared as much about the character as fans do. But I don’t really have much to actually prove that
    Look no further than the outlines. Toriyama gave have Hit nothing but jobber status to jiren. Then gets out shined by Saiyan girls.
    "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."~Psalm 14:1

    Post Reply