(SPOILERS INSIDE) Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

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(SPOILERS INSIDE) Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by superfan2024 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:38 pm

I saw some users arguing about it in the movie thread, so I decided just to make this one.

Anyways, I think not. Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution are probably Toei only forms. He probably only approved of them to be in the anime. Toriyama's writing this movie himself, so he doesn't have to use the forms if he doesn't want to. Plus, Blue by itself was much simpler. Goku and Vegeta are probably going to use UI in the movie (Vegeta getting the form offscreen) so normal Blue is fine enough.
Last edited by superfan2024 on Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:01 pm

Yes. almost 100% certain. It would be stupid if they didn’t appear. Broly is obviously going to be incredibly strong and something more than just SSJ Blue is needed in order to beat him. Vegeta re-transformed into SSBE (twice) after being dropped out of the form the first time, so the transformation is HIS. Furthermore, even if Toriyama would have forgotten to include the form in the movie, i’m more than certain that Toei would’ve fought for it.
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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:42 pm

I think they will. People were saying Kaioken Blue wouldn't appear again after the Universe 6 arc and that Hit's assassination techniques from the Kill Goku two-parter wouldn't show up in the Tournament of Power because they weren't part of Toriyama's outlines, but they did. Toriyama didn't reject either idea then so I'm not sure why he suddenly would now.

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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by Marlowe89 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:57 pm

I don't think they will. My prediction is that the movie will follow both of Super's continuities, yet neither one of them.

Hear me out: Broly will technically serve as a follow-up to Toriyama's outlines rather than the anime or manga specifically. Our protags will frequently have their Super Saiyan Blue auras activated, helping the movie to avoid feeling totally exclusive to the manga's continuity, but there's a catch: Blue Kaioken and Blue Evolution/Strengthened will also be absent despite Goku and Vegeta using the absolute most of their strength against Broly, so it won't feel exclusive to the anime's continuity either.

And with that, fans of both mediums can freely enjoy the film as an audience of the overarching franchise without fretting over concepts like "canon".

We'll find out if I'm right, and I'm not totally confident that I am, but that's the horse I'm betting on right now.

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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:14 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:I don't think they will. My prediction is that the movie will follow both of Super's continuities, yet neither one of them.

Hear me out: Broly will technically serve as a follow-up to Toriyama's outlines rather than the anime or manga specifically. Our protags will frequently have their Super Saiyan Blue auras activated, helping the movie to avoid feeling totally exclusive to the manga's continuity, but there's a catch: Blue Kaioken and Blue Evolution/Strengthened will also be absent despite Goku and Vegeta using the absolute most of their strength against Broly, so it won't feel exclusive to the anime's continuity either.

And with that, fans of both mediums can freely enjoy the film as an audience of the overarching franchise without fretting over concepts like "canon".

We'll find out if I'm right, and I'm not totally confident that I am, but that's the horse I'm betting on right now.
I see what you're saying here and it does make some sense, but I'm not sure I can see the bold part happening, especially in the online fandom where the anime vs manga infighting is so bad. I've already seen people throwing shit at Toei over the issue and we don't even know what they're going to do yet. My concern is that it could cause continuity issues for the manga and any potential anime continuations going forward since this is the "next story" unless both decide to re-adapt the movies' plots. Just look at the confusion that's been caused by the multiple versions of BoG and RoF.

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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by Marlowe89 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:34 pm

BlueBasilisk wrote: I see what you're saying here and it does make some sense, but I'm not sure I can see the bold part happening, especially in the online fandom where the anime vs manga infighting is so bad. I've already seen people throwing shit at Toei over the issue and we don't even know what they're going to do yet.
Definitely true, and I'm more than likely giving them way too much credit there. I should have clarified that I believe that to be Toriyama's intention (assuming my completely speculative prediction has any merit) even if it will inevitably be missed by a lot of people.

Honestly, you can't win for losing when it comes to this fandom. :lol:
BlueBasilisk wrote: My concern is that it could cause continuity issues for the manga and any potential anime continuations going forward since this is the "next story" unless both decide to re-adapt the movies' plots. Just look at the confusion that's been caused by the multiple versions of BoG and RoF.
Right, but I think those inconsistencies are minor enough that it won't really matter. As I see it, they're just extraneous transformations that won't have much of an effect on the overall plot.

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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by PFM18 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:15 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:I don't think they will. My prediction is that the movie will follow both of Super's continuities, yet neither one of them.

Hear me out: Broly will technically serve as a follow-up to Toriyama's outlines rather than the anime or manga specifically. Our protags will frequently have their Super Saiyan Blue auras activated, helping the movie to avoid feeling totally exclusive to the manga's continuity, but there's a catch: Blue Kaioken and Blue Evolution/Strengthened will also be absent despite Goku and Vegeta using the absolute most of their strength against Broly, so it won't feel exclusive to the anime's continuity either.

And with that, fans of both mediums can freely enjoy the film as an audience of the overarching franchise without fretting over concepts like "canon".

We'll find out if I'm right, and I'm not totally confident that I am, but that's the horse I'm betting on right now.
Well it is interesting because the movie is supposed to serve as a continuation of both versions of the story. However, since the way transformations/power are handled so differently, things from one medium are inevitably going to be left out.

This could all be fixed if they did what they did for RoF by just making a manga version of the movie and they could just use CSSB and not have SSBE/SSBKK in that iteration of the story.
Just look at the confusion that's been caused by the multiple versions of BoG and RoF.
I cannot emphasize this enough. Having multiple versions of BoG and RoF can be a nightmare when it comes to the confusion that it has caused. I feel like it is fairly likely they will do a retelling in both mediums and that could also cause a lot of confusion.

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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by MajinMan » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:39 pm

Considering I think that SSBE is the dumbest “transformation” in DB history, I would not complain one bit if it was left out. That being said, I’m pretty sure they’ll put in both Kaioken Blue and SSBE. The more forms they have, the more products they sell.
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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:07 am

I'm sure Nagamine will add them to the storyboard at the behest of the Bandai representative.
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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by wolflonnie » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:24 am

SSBE was sorta meant to be canon. It was originally designed as ASSB, then Toei worked their magic and it became SSBE (which I strongly prefer). So I think it'll be in the movie.
Now it wouldn't make sense nor be fair if Goku's "equivalent" SSBKK would be left out, so I think it'll be included as well.

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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by sintzu » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:18 am

Marlowe89 wrote:I don't think they will. My prediction is that the movie will follow both of Super's continuities, yet neither one of them.

Hear me out: Broly will technically serve as a follow-up to Toriyama's outlines rather than the anime or manga specifically. Our protags will frequently have their Super Saiyan Blue auras activated, helping the movie to avoid feeling totally exclusive to the manga's continuity, but there's a catch: Blue Kaioken and Blue Evolution/Strengthened will also be absent despite Goku and Vegeta using the absolute most of their strength against Broly, so it won't feel exclusive to the anime's continuity either.

And with that, fans of both mediums can freely enjoy the film as an audience of the overarching franchise without fretting over concepts like "canon".

We'll find out if I'm right, and I'm not totally confident that I am, but that's the horse I'm betting on right now.
Toriyama already said the movie is going to be adapted differently for the manga so the movie itself should follow the anime as they're both animated and the manga is already getting it's own version.
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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by emperior » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:05 am

The movie will be a follow-up of the anime events. I can’t see why Goku shouldn’t use the Kaioken, or why Vegeta shouldn’t show a Super Saiyan Blue form stronger than Goku’s.
Even though some people prefer Toyotaro’s manga over the animated version, the anime is considered the main product and as such I believe Toriyama will approve of the anime-only forms to appear in his movie, if they fit with the plot.
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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by superfan2024 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:18 am

sintzu wrote:
Marlowe89 wrote:I don't think they will. My prediction is that the movie will follow both of Super's continuities, yet neither one of them.

Hear me out: Broly will technically serve as a follow-up to Toriyama's outlines rather than the anime or manga specifically. Our protags will frequently have their Super Saiyan Blue auras activated, helping the movie to avoid feeling totally exclusive to the manga's continuity, but there's a catch: Blue Kaioken and Blue Evolution/Strengthened will also be absent despite Goku and Vegeta using the absolute most of their strength against Broly, so it won't feel exclusive to the anime's continuity either.

And with that, fans of both mediums can freely enjoy the film as an audience of the overarching franchise without fretting over concepts like "canon".

We'll find out if I'm right, and I'm not totally confident that I am, but that's the horse I'm betting on right now.
Toriyama already said the movie is going to be adapted differently for the manga so the movie itself should follow the anime as they're both animated and the manga is already getting it's own version.
I believe you, but can I get the source where he said that please?

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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:26 am

superfan2024 wrote:
sintzu wrote:
Marlowe89 wrote:I don't think they will. My prediction is that the movie will follow both of Super's continuities, yet neither one of them.

Hear me out: Broly will technically serve as a follow-up to Toriyama's outlines rather than the anime or manga specifically. Our protags will frequently have their Super Saiyan Blue auras activated, helping the movie to avoid feeling totally exclusive to the manga's continuity, but there's a catch: Blue Kaioken and Blue Evolution/Strengthened will also be absent despite Goku and Vegeta using the absolute most of their strength against Broly, so it won't feel exclusive to the anime's continuity either.

And with that, fans of both mediums can freely enjoy the film as an audience of the overarching franchise without fretting over concepts like "canon".

We'll find out if I'm right, and I'm not totally confident that I am, but that's the horse I'm betting on right now.
Toriyama already said the movie is going to be adapted differently for the manga so the movie itself should follow the anime as they're both animated and the manga is already getting it's own version.
I believe you, but can I get the source where he said that please?
It's from his statement on the movie website after the key visual was revealed back in March: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2018/03/12/of ... a-comment/
To quote the relevant part:
Now then, the animated version on TV will be ending for the time being, but the very popular Dragon Ball Super comic drawn by Toyotarō (on sale now up through volume 5!) will keep on going as-is. I think there will also be story developments different from the TV show and the movie, so please look forward to that as well. I will be, too!
I completely forgot he'd said that. :lol:

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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by Nafno » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:15 am

Let's remember that the fact that Toriyama is the writer does not mean that his script is going to be 100% faithfully adapted. RoF original script is not the exact same thing we have of the movie.

At the end of the day, it's Toei/Nagamine who will work and flesh out the script. So, even if Toriyama does not include those forms in the script (he probably hadn't), Toei can introduce them.

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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by Marlowe89 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:15 pm

sintzu wrote: Toriyama already said the movie is going to be adapted differently for the manga so the movie itself should follow the anime as they're both animated and the manga is already getting it's own version.
Assuming the TV serialization continues, I'm positive that Toei/Toriyama would consider re-adapting the movie there as well. The concern for Battle of Gods and Resurrection 'F' was that the audience watching the show may not have seen those films, so I can see the same kind of reasoning being applied for the anime. Lots of assumptions going on either way; it's all up in the air.

I still don't think this necessitates the appearance of anime-only forms. That would depend entirely upon whether Toei deems it necessary to add them.

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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by ekrolo2 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:24 pm

There's a good chance they won't, not for the film anyway. If Super does a remake of it, which seems to be a thing anime is doing nowadays at least where DB and Naruto are concerned, we'll probs see them and Completed SSBlue in their respective retellings.
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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by dragon boss z » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:59 pm

wolflonnie wrote:SSBE was sorta meant to be canon. It was originally designed as ASSB, then Toei worked their magic and it became SSBE (which I strongly prefer). So I think it'll be in the movie.
Now it wouldn't make sense nor be fair if Goku's "equivalent" SSBKK would be left out, so I think it'll be included as well.
The design you are talking about was from an anime staff member, not Toriyama.

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Re: Will Kaioken Blue and/or Blue Evolution appear in the film?

Post by wolflonnie » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:05 am

dragon boss z wrote:
wolflonnie wrote:SSBE was sorta meant to be canon. It was originally designed as ASSB, then Toei worked their magic and it became SSBE (which I strongly prefer). So I think it'll be in the movie.
Now it wouldn't make sense nor be fair if Goku's "equivalent" SSBKK would be left out, so I think it'll be included as well.
The design you are talking about was from an anime staff member, not Toriyama.
Oh that's new. I thought it was from Toriyama.

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