It's the little things ...

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Nickolaidas
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It's the little things ...

Post by Nickolaidas » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:35 pm

... that make me love Super.

I'll let you in on a little secret: I'm just now beginning to watch Super. I watched from the episode that Goku went to Zeno to talk about the ToP, so I had missed the movie-re-enactments, Goku Black, U6 vs U7 and basically, the 70-80 first episodes. I've been doing some serious binge-watching and so far I've made it to episode 43. It's the episode where Pilaf and the gang 'kidnap' Pan and Goku loses his power because of the Kaio Ken.


And I must say, it made me realize how I love the moments where the characters act as characters. Gohan and Videl having dinner with the professor was a very nice touch, showing us how Gohan is moving forward with his life (even though he said no because of Pan), but what really got to me was that moment with Goku and Piccolo hanging out in the rooftops with Pan. When Piccolo asked Goku 'So, how are *you* doing?", I nearly cried. It was such a simple, yet amazing scene which gives you the illusion that these are real people. Not when they bleed, not when they fire energy blasts, not when they are challenging Gods, alien conquerors and demons, but when they give you the impression that their lives have become so hectic that they hang around a lot less than they used to and when they meet together in quiet times, they remind us than they are friends who have been through a lot and that bonds have formed between them, strong and powerful.

I seriously want more scenes like these. They're amazing.


And if I ever see a scene like that with Frieza and Goku, I'll die a happy man. Closest thing I've got so far is their interaction in Fighterz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkpDZzxK_Q0

So anyway, while Super certainly starts … weird, it got a lot better after the BoG saga.

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Re: It's the little things ...

Post by Waluigiman » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:05 pm

Nickolaidas wrote:... that make me love Super.

I'll let you in on a little secret: I'm just now beginning to watch Super. I watched from the episode that Goku went to Zeno to talk about the ToP, so I had missed the movie-re-enactments, Goku Black, U6 vs U7 and basically, the 70-80 first episodes. I've been doing some serious binge-watching and so far I've made it to episode 43. It's the episode where Pilaf and the gang 'kidnap' Pan and Goku loses his power because of the Kaio Ken.


And I must say, it made me realize how I love the moments where the characters act as characters. Gohan and Videl having dinner with the professor was a very nice touch, showing us how Gohan is moving forward with his life (even though he said no because of Pan), but what really got to me was that moment with Goku and Piccolo hanging out in the rooftops with Pan. When Piccolo asked Goku 'So, how are *you* doing?", I nearly cried. It was such a simple, yet amazing scene which gives you the illusion that these are real people. Not when they bleed, not when they fire energy blasts, not when they are challenging Gods, alien conquerors and demons, but when they give you the impression that their lives have become so hectic that they hang around a lot less than they used to and when they meet together in quiet times, they remind us than they are friends who have been through a lot and that bonds have formed between them, strong and powerful.

I seriously want more scenes like these. They're amazing.


And if I ever see a scene like that with Frieza and Goku, I'll die a happy man. Closest thing I've got so far is their interaction in Fighterz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkpDZzxK_Q0

So anyway, while Super certainly starts … weird, it got a lot better after the BoG saga.
Believe it or not, the show is better when it does that, I mean we can't care or root for someone with no charisma when they are in danger can we? :lol:

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Jesus-is Lord
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Re: It's the little things ...

Post by Jesus-is Lord » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:17 pm

This show has:
Terrible writing
Barley any gore which shows how childesh it is
No consequence
Bad power scailing
Art that is worse then the orginals
Regression of characterization
Terrible slice of life episodes compared to dragon ball and Z

There's no Little things in this show that make me like it, most slice of life episodes make me dislike the show more, goku vs pan was cringe because it ruined piccolo character making him a legit meme of himself as a babysitter, and goku seems like an irresponsible grandpa who cares nothing about his granddaughter except when he's bored and got nothing better to do.

:evil: - Sorry I had to sound like a extreme party pooper, but nothing in super makes me appcriate it above any other db series except it ost - where it truly excels it. Lol, but everything else about the show is average to downright trash in my estimation.

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PFM18
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Re: It's the little things ...

Post by PFM18 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:09 am

Jesus-is Lord wrote: :evil: - Sorry I had to sound like a extreme party pooper, but nothing in super makes me appcriate it above any other db series except it ost - where it truly excels it. Lol, but everything else about the show is average to downright trash in my estimation.
Yeah that's exactly what you did. Somebody wants to talk about things that they enjoy and want to discuss it and you just tear them down for no real reason.

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Jesus-is Lord
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Re: It's the little things ...

Post by Jesus-is Lord » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:28 am

PFM18 wrote:
Jesus-is Lord wrote: :evil: - Sorry I had to sound like a extreme party pooper, but nothing in super makes me appcriate it above any other db series except it ost - where it truly excels it. Lol, but everything else about the show is average to downright trash in my estimation.
Yeah that's exactly what you did. Somebody wants to talk about things that they enjoy and want to discuss it and you just tear them down for no real reason.
Are you going to finish our discussion on strength? You've yet to show me the dialouge of where goku said fusion wasn't enough as a ssj god, while I gave you evidence that fusion is FAR stronger then ssj god via kefla.

and ye've yet to confirm yes if you think Ribiranne, ssj cabba, frost, meggetta, Also that bouncy ball girl from UNI 4 - since she beat ssj caba, piccolo (he fought ssj2 gohan and I debunked your myth that base gohan in 9 hour training in the woods is stronger then his ssj2 self 9-hours before), ssj trunks, zamsu the kai and many other fodders are as storng ssj god goku in BoG and could have entertained berrus just as well - that's what you think the creators of toei would agree with? also, since ssj goku>>>.ssj3 vegetto in BoG arc, you'd agree that Kuririn, 18, roshi (he stood up to forst who, by your accounts, should be far stronger then ssj3 vegetto), base cabba, android 18, universe 2 fake ribiranne and his crew, bergamo (who, by your claims, is like a 100x+ stronger then his brothers in mere base) they clould all easily beat At least a ssj vegetto from Z. Are you going to confirm Yes to this?

Anyway,
I didn't tear them down, I gave my opinion.

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Re: It's the little things ...

Post by Nickolaidas » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:47 am

Jesus-is Lord wrote:Terrible writing
The writing is inconsistent. Some parts are written horribly, some parts are handled far, far better than the original.
Jesus-is Lord wrote:Barley any gore which shows how childesh it is
Irrelevant. I always found gore and profanity as a cheap way to make one believe something is mature, while being utterly childish in the execution. It's the themes and characterization which makes a series look mature or not. The Goku Black Arc is written as if intended for 10 years older viewers from the BoG arc.
Jesus-is Lord wrote:No consequence
Where was consequence in the original? Daimaoh's rampage was completely undone. Namek's destruction was undone. Earth's destruction was undone. Every horror the heroes faced was undone, or joined them in their heroics.
Jesus-is Lord wrote:Bad power scailing
I'll give you that one. Personally I don't mind it if it means lesser characters can do something to the major ones.
Jesus-is Lord wrote:Art that is worse then the orginals
Again, the art is inconsistent. The RoF has the worse art in Dragon Ball history, while the ToP arc has some of the best - the last episode is pure art.
Jesus-is Lord wrote:Regression of characterization
A couple of characters indeed seem to regress, mainly the two protagonists. Others, like Frieza and Mirai Trunks, became far deeper characters.

Super has indeed quite a few faults, but it's not nearly close to being the massive turd the haters portray it to be.

In the end, Dragon Ball Super was a series which started horribly, but evolved as it went. Here's hoping the next series will keep the ToP levels of quality.

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Re: It's the little things ...

Post by linkdude20002001 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:58 am

Jesus-is Lord wrote:This show has:
Barley any gore which shows how childesh it is
It's a show for children. It doesn't need to be gory. It has what it has, and I don't mind either way, but it's silly to complain about a children's show being childish. At least when it comes to gore. Complaining about childish writing would be a more valid argument, if that were the case here.
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Re: It's the little things ...

Post by bleed0range » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:31 am

linkdude20002001 wrote:
Jesus-is Lord wrote:This show has:
Barley any gore which shows how childesh it is
It's a show for children. It doesn't need to be gory. It has what it has, and I don't mind either way, but it's silly to complain about a children's show being childish. At least when it comes to gore. Complaining about childish writing would be a more valid argument, if that were the case here.
Yes. The complaint that the “lack of gore” is somehow “childish,” is the most childish possible complaint you could make. You don’t have to have gore to be entertaining on an adult level. Just the same as a story doesn’t have to be dumbed down for kids. When you fail to respect either side you end up with material that doesn’t entertain its audience because it doesn’t respect it.

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Jesus-is Lord
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Re: It's the little things ...

Post by Jesus-is Lord » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:37 am

Nickolaidas wrote:
Jesus-is Lord wrote:Terrible writing
The writing is inconsistent. Some parts are written horribly, some parts are handled far, far better than the original.
Jesus-is Lord wrote:Barley any gore which shows how childesh it is
Irrelevant. I always found gore and profanity as a cheap way to make one believe something is mature, while being utterly childish in the execution. It's the themes and characterization which makes a series look mature or not. The Goku Black Arc is written as if intended for 10 years older viewers from the BoG arc.
Jesus-is Lord wrote:No consequence
Where was consequence in the original? Daimaoh's rampage was completely undone. Namek's destruction was undone. Earth's destruction was undone. Every horror the heroes faced was undone, or joined them in their heroics.
Jesus-is Lord wrote:Bad power scailing
I'll give you that one. Personally I don't mind it if it means lesser characters can do something to the major ones.
Jesus-is Lord wrote:Art that is worse then the orginals
Again, the art is inconsistent. The RoF has the worse art in Dragon Ball history, while the ToP arc has some of the best - the last episode is pure art.
Jesus-is Lord wrote:Regression of characterization
A couple of characters indeed seem to regress, mainly the two protagonists. Others, like Frieza and Mirai Trunks, became far deeper characters.

Super has indeed quite a few faults, but it's not nearly close to being the massive turd the haters portray it to be.

In the end, Dragon Ball Super was a series which started horribly, but evolved as it went. Here's hoping the next series will keep the ToP levels of quality.
Super has had better writing then dragon ball and Z? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Please show me where,

I could give two cents about bad language, but showing no gore for an battle anime like dragon ball is quite bad, especially since a large appeal was seeing these guys get best up to pulp. Having no blood and gore and having it censored for even a show like dragon ball is bad and shows how child tonned down it is.
And there was no writing in the black arc that made it above it's age. There's no writing anywhere, characters have regressed to like teenage drama doppelgänger of themselves.
Piccolo having confidence issues because he screwed up in a fight against some namekians?
A sayain "prodigy" having ANXIETY and depression/low self esteem?
Gohan turning into a bland character with no persoanility
Goku being turned even more one demensional in Z
Vegeta ...eh he's alright. Though not as mature as some iterations of him (dbs manga)
Frieza turning into some charismatic leader who barley does anything terrifying anymore (because the show is tonned down)
Mr. I have friends vs. I have no friends anymore - and how mr. Friends beats I have no friends because of the extra boost of fighting for friends, executed in the most patheti. Way since I have no friends could have eliminated I have friends after the 1 hour special but decided to look at him and left him alone like a moron. And you add to the fact that I have friends had been able to regain held and stamnia at the rate of wolverine like 3 times beforehand made that moment where he got up again for like the 4th time lose it's impact since he's been doing it the entire tourney, it dosent look like any powerful message, it looks like plot armor is carrying him. Smh.

Just because something usually has a good ending dosent mean there aren't consequences:
For example goku action in red ribbon helped create the andorid saga, and introduce into time travel and such.
Kuririn not killing vegeta created dragon ball as we know today
Goku dying against radditzs helped prepare them to be able to defeat nappa
The cell saga ending with goku dying (nothing of this magnitude EVER happened in super)
Though dragon ball isn't the most consequential show, super is by the worst when galvanizing any good tension.

Oh cool, so you're willing to sacrifice consistent power scailing and allow bad writing in order so you can have fan service for dated characters? Smh.

The ToP art was consistently below average accept for takahashi, and few cutscenes here and there and a few episodes. Overall, the art for ToP is quite average at best. May I find you the amount of re used animation clouded across differnt episodes and some of the really bad drawn and terrible animated episodes? It wasn't "pure art".
Freeza and trunks became "deeper characters"? Maybe...though they don't have much depth anyway, plus when you reconstruct their persoanility by making them worse (Frieza) and making the other a complete Mary Sue (trunks) I'm not impressed.

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Re: It's the little things ...

Post by Jesus-is Lord » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:39 am

bleed0range wrote:
linkdude20002001 wrote:
Jesus-is Lord wrote:This show has:
Barley any gore which shows how childesh it is
It's a show for children. It doesn't need to be gory. It has what it has, and I don't mind either way, but it's silly to complain about a children's show being childish. At least when it comes to gore. Complaining about childish writing would be a more valid argument, if that were the case here.
Yes. The complaint that the “lack of gore” is somehow “childish,” is the most childish possible complaint you could make. You don’t have to have gore to be entertaining on an adult level. Just the same as a story doesn’t have to be dumbed down for kids. When you fail to respect either side you end up with material that doesn’t entertain its audience because it doesn’t respect it.
I agree with everything except your send sentence, for dragon ball you need things to be rough and awesome. If you censor violence on a franchise known for its violence, you can really ruin the show.

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bleed0range
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Re: It's the little things ...

Post by bleed0range » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:26 am

Jesus-is Lord wrote:
bleed0range wrote:
linkdude20002001 wrote: It's a show for children. It doesn't need to be gory. It has what it has, and I don't mind either way, but it's silly to complain about a children's show being childish. At least when it comes to gore. Complaining about childish writing would be a more valid argument, if that were the case here.
Yes. The complaint that the “lack of gore” is somehow “childish,” is the most childish possible complaint you could make. You don’t have to have gore to be entertaining on an adult level. Just the same as a story doesn’t have to be dumbed down for kids. When you fail to respect either side you end up with material that doesn’t entertain its audience because it doesn’t respect it.
I agree with everything except your send sentence, for dragon ball you need things to be rough and awesome. If you censor violence on a franchise known for its violence, you can really ruin the show.
I was implying it can be violent without gore. The Dark Knight never shows any real gore and always implies the worst off screen like with the pencil trick scene. It’s how they got a PG-13 rating and maintained the Joker’s violence. Blood doesn’t have to be shown to imply a severe amount of violence takes place in one of the fights.

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Re: It's the little things ...

Post by Master Xar » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:22 pm

Yeah it is. Had to learn the hard way, but I figured it out.

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Re: It's the little things ...

Post by PFM18 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:06 pm

Master Xar wrote:Yeah it is. Had to learn the hard way, but I figured it out.
What exactly are you responding to? You didn't quote anyone. And what do you mean "had to learn the hard way"

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Re: It's the little things ...

Post by Master Xar » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:44 am

PFM18 wrote:
Master Xar wrote:Yeah it is. Had to learn the hard way, but I figured it out.
What exactly are you responding to? You didn't quote anyone. And what do you mean "had to learn the hard way"
Well. I guess you could say I regrounded in the series. I got so much for it that I gave myself away in a blast of pure emotion from a time when I didn’t appreciate it but came to realize it myself. I saw enemies and villains all in my sights, but eventually I came to realize that it’s just a story about people.

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