Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

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Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by BrolyKale » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:26 am

He didn't hesitate one seconde to kill his master, he even killed him with an evil smile on his face (in the anime)... so what do you guys think? I mean if he truly cared about his master he would never want to harm him.
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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by SSJ YUSUKE » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:07 am

Zamasu by this point was a fanatic. He was committed to the cause that he believed in and this meant getting rid of anyone in the way. While at least in the Anime when we first meet him he seems to respect his master. But as the story progresses he begins to question his master until he is so consumed by his hatred of mortals that he sees him as a fool who is standing in his way.

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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by shadowfox87 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:14 am

He's a narcissistic psychopath. He thought that everyone who allowed the mortals to exist were fools, even Beerus and Zeno, and only he new what needed to be done. Gowasu chose him as an apprentice in terms of his martial arts, not because of his personality. Zamasu was known to be the most powerful of the Kai and even the Kaioshin in all 12 universes, a statement made by Shin, in the manga.
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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:26 am

Why would he care about a useless god who let mortals run rampart throughout the universe? Any respect that the promising Zamasu could have had for his tragically worthless mentor disappeared once Gowasu allowed evil to reign free throughout his universe instead of rooting it out. It is a sin to watch evil without trying to stop it, despite having the power to do so. It is a sin to abandon the cosmos to war and destruction because the divine laws of the Gods behind you to inaction. Only the Gods of Destruction are allowed to destroy. But what if the God of Destruction is a lazy buffoon? What then? Who will take care of dangerous mortals? Certainly not Rumsshi.

Zamasu genuinely praised his teacher before that moment, often bowing to him in sign of respect and treating him very well. It was always an honor for him to serve Gowasu, just look at the big smile that he had when he brewed tea for him. Or when Gowasu first recruited Zamasu, and the latter was obviously joyful and eager to begin his studies under a Supreme Kai, vowing to do his pest to uphold universal peace.

Besides, Zamasu took a long while to murder Gowasu. When he prepaired the divine God Split Cut to murder Gowasu, he clearly hesitated, and had a troubled expression that showed doubt, it was obvious that he was immersed in thought, and was thinking about the consequences of his actions. Murdering Gowasu was the turning point in Zamasu's life. Ultimately, getting rid of the Supreme Kai was an unfortunate but necessary sacrifice to build the golden utopia from the ashes of an ugly cosmos that has been stained by the foolishness and violence of mortals repeatedly.

Gowasu failed Zamasu. He failed to understand the gravity of his issues, he failed to change his perspective of mortals. That's why he cried after Zamasu's demise, and admitted that it was his own fault, too, if Zamasu turned out the way he did.
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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by Bergamo » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:43 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:Why would he care about a useless god who let mortals run rampart throughout the universe? Any respect that the promising Zamasu could have had for his tragically worthless mentor disappeared once Gowasu allowed evil to reign free throughout his universe instead of rooting it out. It is a sin to watch evil without trying to stop it, despite having the power to do so. It is a sin to abandon the cosmos to war and destruction because the divine laws of the Gods behind you to inaction. Only the Gods of Destruction are allowed to destroy. But what if the God of Destruction is a lazy buffoon? What then? Who will take care of dangerous mortals? Certainly not Rumsshi.

Zamasu genuinely praised his teacher before that moment, often bowing to him in sign of respect and treating him very well. It was always an honor for him to serve Gowasu, just look at the big smile that he had when he brewed tea for him. Or when Gowasu first recruited Zamasu, and the latter was obviously joyful and eager to begin his studies under a Supreme Kai, vowing to do his pest to uphold universal peace.

Besides, Zamasu took a long while to murder Gowasu. When he prepaired the divine God Split Cut to murder Gowasu, he clearly hesitated, and had a troubled expression that showed doubt, it was obvious that he was immersed in thought, and was thinking about the consequences of his actions. Murdering Gowasu was the turning point in Zamasu's life. Ultimately, getting rid of the Supreme Kai was an unfortunate but necessary sacrifice to build the golden utopia from the ashes of an ugly cosmos that has been stained by the foolishness and violence of mortals repeatedly.

Gowasu failed Zamasu. He failed to understand the gravity of his issues, he failed to change his perspective of mortals. That's why he cried after Zamasu's demise, and admitted that it was his own fault, too, if Zamasu turned out the way he did.
Do you have to write every post as if Zamas is a saint and the protagonist of the FT arc. You do understand that he is 100% a villain and not a morally grey character. He's just a guy with an opinion, but he thinks his opinion is better than everyone else's and uses it as justification for genocide.

In the manga they have a bonus page where a younger Zamas meets Gowas for the first time. He has a really bright an innocent expression, so you can assume that he did respect and care for Gowas at some point.
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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:46 am

Do you have to write every post as if Zamas is a saint and the protagonist of the FT arc. You do understand that he is 100% a villain and not a morally grey character. He's just a guy with an opinion, but he thinks his opinion is better than everyone else's and uses it as justification for genocide.
Except that I neither said that Zamasu was a saint, nor that he was the protagonist. You don't have the right to put words in my mouth.
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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by Bergamo » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:53 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Do you have to write every post as if Zamas is a saint and the protagonist of the FT arc. You do understand that he is 100% a villain and not a morally grey character. He's just a guy with an opinion, but he thinks his opinion is better than everyone else's and uses it as justification for genocide.
Except that I neither said that Zamasu was a saint, nor that he was the protagonist. You don't have the right to put words in my mouth.
You always say that you don't think Zamas was the good guy, but you also post essay long posts about how Zamas didn't really want to kill and he was forced to do it because these incompetent gods refused to admit their mistakes.
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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:57 am

You always say that you don't think Zamas was the good guy,
Exactly, and there are very few good guys in the Dragon Ball universe, so this is hardly specific to Zamasu.
but you also post essay long posts about how Zamas didn't really want to kill and he was forced to do it because these incompetent gods refused to admit their mistakes.
Yet I also aknowledged that Zamasu was a genocidal maniac.

Gowasu was incompetent. There is no doubt about that. As was Rumsshi. Their universe wouldn't have had to participate in the Tournament of Power in the first place if they had been doing their job well.
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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by Bergamo » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:59 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:
You always say that you don't think Zamas was the good guy,
Exactly, and there are very few good guys in the Dragon Ball universe, so this is hardly specific to Zamasu.
but you also post essay long posts about how Zamas didn't really want to kill and he was forced to do it because these incompetent gods refused to admit their mistakes.
Yet I also aknowledged that Zamasu was a genocidal maniac.

Gowasu was incompetent. There is no doubt about that. As was Rumsshi. Their universe wouldn't have had to participate in the Tournament of Power in the first place if they had been doing their job well.
I see your point. I'm not trying to be rude, or accuse you of anything, I just find a lot of your posts bizarre.
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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:13 am

Perhaps the better question should be "Did Gowasu ever care about Zamasu?". I mean, in episode 54, Zamasu clearly stated that he wanted to wipe out every mortal on Planet Babari, that should have been a big red warning for Gowasu that drastic measures were required. He brought Zamasu to Planet Babari and that... didn't end very well, to say the least. Not only did a Babarian try to murder both Gowasu and Zamasu (Gowasu was clearly scared), but Zamasu just straight up killed that primitive animal in episode 55. In the same episode, Zamasu outright stated that he believes that all mortals are evil and should be extinguished. Despite this striking evidence that Zamasu is clearly in desperate need of help before he falls completely from grace, Gowasu hardly did anything, convinced that Zamasu's doubts were completely vanished just because he bowed in sign of respect after one of his usual rants about the role of Gods of Creation. And besides, did Gowasu not notice the obvious evil look that Zamasu was giving to the Super Dragon Balls when they were watching Godtube?

Still, despite ALL THAT EVIDENCE that, clearly, Zamasu's confessions, that he had better understood his role as a Kai, did not align with his extreme actions, Gowasu still had the guts to tell Beerus and co. in episode 57 that he truly believes to have enlightened Zamasu, and that Zamasu now is fully "redeemed".

It's like Gowasu wasn't even trying to find out more about Zamasu's true intentions. One moment Zamasu kills a Babarian, ten minutes later he tells Gowasu a blatant lie such as "Thank you master, I have learned to let go of my hatred for mortals", and Gowasu just falls for it instantly! It's unbelievable. That is a guy who has been Supreme Kai for eons, apparently. To me, this clearly shows that Gowasu didn't really care about guiding Zamasu to the right path. Let alone the fact that he didn't even notice that his apprentice, the Kai who clearly has issues and needs guidance, just disappeared from the palace one day and went off to meet Zuno.
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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by BrolyKale » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:41 am

I guess Gowasu was just blindly trusting his apprentice, he even said in the manga that Zamasu would never do such bad things. Its like when you are too much in love with someone, you don't want to see the negative side of your lover.

And yes Gowasu does care about Zamasu, he was always listening to him, he was always there for his apprentice. He even asked Black to stop the carnage and he even admit that it was his own fault if he couldn't lead him to the right path. But at the end Gowasu still gives hand to Black and asks him to start over together and fix everything. This proves he does care about Zamasu and doesn't want his apprentice to make extremely bad mistakes.
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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by Cetra » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:11 am

I am absolutely sure that Zamasu cared about/respected Gowasu. It was just when he realized that not only the mortals but also the gods were not incorporable in his system that he lost respect for him.
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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:24 pm

Cetra wrote:I am absolutely sure that Zamasu cared about/respected Gowasu. It was just when he realized that not only the mortals but also the gods were not incorporable in his system that he lost respect for him.
I agree, it was built up but I think it is once he truly got the confirmation after their small trip in brutal age land that he fully convinced himself gods were traitors and should all die without exception even his good ol' master lol

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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by Bullza » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:36 pm

In the manga he seemed to think about it for a moment when Gowasu was talking to him on top of the building.

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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by Waluigiman » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:29 am

Maybe at some point, judging at how future zamasu reacted to Gowasu's death, unfortanetly Zamasu was already corrupted since he easily accepted Gowasu's death and acted against his wishes by killing the mortals Gowasu wanted to keep alive. I say Zamasu gradually began to dislike Gowasu when he realized he didn't have the same opinion towards "ningens".

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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by bleed0range » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:13 am

He is a psychopath and they are known for being incapable of feeling compassion of others and are usually narcissistic. Generally they see others as merely a tool and often will manipulate others to get their way. They are sometimes murderers and this is why it is so easy for them to kill. They don’t see human beings as human beings. This fits Zamasu to a tee. So no, I don’t think he ever cared. He is incapable of caring about anyone other than himself.

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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:39 am

I'm certain Zamasu at least respected Gowasu. But after visiting Planet Babari, and then realising how much their moral standings on the fates of mortals were practically polar opposites from each other, he lost any kind of respect he had for him. And then when Zamasu was humbled Goku, and mentally went off the deep end, Zamasu was just tolerating Gowasu's existence, until he realised he didn't need him anymore.

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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by Meshack » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:07 pm

After seeing what happened on Planet Babari, no he did not.

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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by PFM18 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:30 pm

Bergamo wrote:Do you have to write every post as if Zamas is a saint and the protagonist of the FT arc. You do understand that he is 100% a villain and not a morally grey character. He's just a guy with an opinion, but he thinks his opinion is better than everyone else's and uses it as justification for genocide.
Yeah this is a fight that just isn't worth fighting....I would drop it lol.

As for the topic my view echoes what shadowfox87 said.
SupremeKai25 wrote:Gowasu was incompetent. There is no doubt about that. As was Rumsshi. Their universe wouldn't have had to participate in the Tournament of Power in the first place if they had been doing their job well.
This is true though for sure.

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Re: Did Zamasu ever care about Gowasu? (in the anime and manga)

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:12 pm

Another thing that makes no sense about Gowasu, then. He is convinced that Gods of Creation must observe, not destroy, so why did he choose Zamasu as his successor based solely on his fighting skills? Yes, Zamasu was a natural prodigy and a fighting genius, but if a Supreme Kai must never use violence, because that is the job of a Destroyer, then why did Gowasu choose Zamasu as his successor in the first place?

Also, I totally forgot about that flashback to when Future Zamasu first met Goku Black. You could see that he was clearly shocked by his master's death. If he felt nothing for Gowasu, he wouldn't have rushed to check if he was truly dead, with clearly a stressed tone and a terrified expression.
Last edited by SupremeKai25 on Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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