Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by Doctor. » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:56 am

ekrolo2 wrote:If Toyotaro deserves to get fired over the manga, he better be joined by everyone involved with Super (minus the animators) because where the writing is concerned nobody should stay.
Toriyama first.

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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by Meshack » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:13 am

Toyotarou is not gonna get fired because Toriyama and Shueisha love his work and Toriyama even encouraged him to add his own things but Toyotarou said he stays very close to the script. That tells you that the problems are probably from Toriyama but also probably because of Toyotarou’s lack of creative input. However, people would bash him even more for adding his own creative inputs so Toyotarou can’t win here with the fans of Dragon Ball. I think he’s doing fine and should continue what he’s doing

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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by emperior » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:14 am

Doctor. wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:If Toyotaro deserves to get fired over the manga, he better be joined by everyone involved with Super (minus the animators) because where the writing is concerned nobody should stay.
Toriyama first.
Toriyama just needs to become stricter and provide more detailed outlines. And asking for Toriyama to be fired off his own work is ridiculous. The only reason Super exists is because he decided to write new stories once again. And the main problem with Super aren’t the outlines but how they are expanded by Toei or Toyotaro. Not to mention how much of a financial success Super has been, which means it has been well received by the fans.

I am quite sure Super would be a lot better if Toriyama was drawing the manga. This is just an impossible wish, so I just wished he could be more present. If the freedom he is giving isn’t working, then he should get stricter.
Last edited by emperior on Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by Meshack » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:17 am

emperior wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:If Toyotaro deserves to get fired over the manga, he better be joined by everyone involved with Super (minus the animators) because where the writing is concerned nobody should stay.
Toriyama first.
Toriyama just needs to become stricter and provide more detailed outlines. And asking for Toriyama to be fired off his own work is ridiculous. The only reason Super exists is because he decided to write new stories once again. And the main problem with Super aren’t the outlines but how they are expanded by Toei or Toyotaro.
I am quite sure Super would be a lot better if Toriyama was drawing the manga.
They’re not detailed because Toriyama wants Toei and Toyotarou to do their own thing. However, the movies are entirely written by Toriyama so there you go

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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by emperior » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:19 am

Meshack wrote:
emperior wrote:
Doctor. wrote: Toriyama first.
Toriyama just needs to become stricter and provide more detailed outlines. And asking for Toriyama to be fired off his own work is ridiculous. The only reason Super exists is because he decided to write new stories once again. And the main problem with Super aren’t the outlines but how they are expanded by Toei or Toyotaro.
I am quite sure Super would be a lot better if Toriyama was drawing the manga.
They’re not detailed because Toriyama wants Toei and Toyotarou to do their own thing. However, the movies are entirely written by Toriyama so there you go
In fact me, as well as many other fans, had no problems with the movie’s scripts. Not even with RoF’s, which in my opinion mostly suffered from the poor storyboard, direction and animation supervision of Yamamuro.
The characterisation, one of the most criticized aspects of Super in both the anime and the manga (mostly in the anime especially before the ToP) was just perfect in the movies, for example.
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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by dbzfan7 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:26 am

I mean Toriyama basically said ok to the things Toyotaro did so...if you want to go to the source then there it is. He coulda shot down every idea some of us don't like, but he okay'd what was published so...

I mean from an artistic standpoint I can understand more, but from a written standpoint I don't think it's gonna get much better or worse if there's a change.
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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by Doctor. » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:48 am

emperior wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:If Toyotaro deserves to get fired over the manga, he better be joined by everyone involved with Super (minus the animators) because where the writing is concerned nobody should stay.
Toriyama first.
Toriyama just needs to become stricter and provide more detailed outlines. And asking for Toriyama to be fired off his own work is ridiculous. The only reason Super exists is because he decided to write new stories once again. And the main problem with Super aren’t the outlines but how they are expanded by Toei or Toyotaro. Not to mention how much of a financial success Super has been, which means it has been well received by the fans.

I am quite sure Super would be a lot better if Toriyama was drawing the manga. This is just an impossible wish, so I just wished he could be more present. If the freedom he is giving isn’t working, then he should get stricter.
He's clearly not passionate enough about Dragon Ball to be working on it, considering how shallow his outlines are. He's passionate enough to want to contribute, but not passionate enough to be highly involved. So all of his contributions end up mediocre or underdeveloped. So if he doesn't care enough about the series to work on it full-time, then maybe he should just let it go and let Toei and Shueisha do what they've been doing since the 90s. Dragon Ball has done stories without Toriyama before and it will continue to do stories after Toriyama is done with Super. Obviously Toriyama won't be fired becausehis name will sell as long as he is helping with the series in some way, I'm just saying Dragon Ball at this point is bigger than he is. It's no longer JUST his work, which is a bit sad considering how much effort he put into it, but he doesn't really seem like the kind of person who'd care much when he finally ends it off to someone else.

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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by sintzu » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:00 am

Pannaliciour wrote:Wait.. what? Kefla getting Ring Out by Gohan? Roshi out of no where dodging Jiren's move.
Both were approved by Toriyama so he should be taking part of the blame. Kefla fighting Gohan was better than being completely overpowered to the point where it didn't make sense like in the anime where Goku needed UI to win.
PFM18 wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:If Toyotaro deserves to get fired over the manga, he better be joined by everyone involved with Super (minus the animators) because where the writing is concerned nobody should stay.
This is so overdramatic. Super revived the franchise it sure as hell isn't producing writing worth firing everyone over.
If we're talking about quality then they sure as hell deserve to be fired as they've written nothing that holds a candle to other Shonen or even the original DB.
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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by Hawk9211 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:30 am

IF we’re talking about toriyama,he still has good ideas he just needs a better editor.Most people agree that super would be better if he was writing the story himself.

Toriyama only came back thanks to evolution.He never held dragon ball in high regard.I doubt he cares much aside from keeping the tone similar to his previous work.
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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by Majin Jator » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:38 am

Quality aside, the powers that be have no reason to make changes while things are working out, and last time I checked the manga was selling beyond expectations.

Also this:
RedHeat wrote:He should've been fired a while ago for his tracing.
If nothing happened then is safe to assume that they are either happy or don't care enough about an ancillary product to bother making changes.

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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by BrolySSJL » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:23 am

He's not perfect... but is for sure better than the screenwriters of Toei. Zamasu saga in the manga is absolute gorgeous.

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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by IM21 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:39 am

prince212 wrote: Agree, 3 drawing spoilers and youtubers made the day , nowadays youtubers are gods and people don’t realize that they just want views and polemic , fans are being used . This fandom ? I’m not in , looks like they enjoy more looking for bad things than nothing else , I can’t see where is the fun . If I don’t like it I don’t watch it , I’m not saying for those to do the same eh .. but I think there’s more important things in the world to complain about than a cartoon that doesn’t fit your taste .
Btw I like toyotaro, don’t fire him , let it be :D
yea, that was fun. Especially when a youtuber is shitting on other youtubers for making videos without the full info and accusing them of clickbait. And then he even makes another video 1 day before the release of the English version. What a joke. Anyway, the DB youtubers are pretty much shit other than Ajay and MasakoX. All the others just read the news and sound like they know everything there is to know about DB.

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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:20 am

IM21 wrote:
prince212 wrote: Agree, 3 drawing spoilers and youtubers made the day , nowadays youtubers are gods and people don’t realize that they just want views and polemic , fans are being used . This fandom ? I’m not in , looks like they enjoy more looking for bad things than nothing else , I can’t see where is the fun . If I don’t like it I don’t watch it , I’m not saying for those to do the same eh .. but I think there’s more important things in the world to complain about than a cartoon that doesn’t fit your taste .
Btw I like toyotaro, don’t fire him , let it be :D
yea, that was fun. Especially when a youtuber is shitting on other youtubers for making videos without the full info and accusing them of clickbait. And then he even makes another video 1 day before the release of the English version. What a joke. Anyway, the DB youtubers are pretty much shit other than Ajay and MasakoX. All the others just read the news and sound like they know everything there is to know about DB.
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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by DestructoDisc » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:17 am

I'm not a huge of the manga either but wishing someone to lose his job is I think a bit harsh. I'm sure Toyotaro is a nice friendly guy so, I don't want him to get fired just because I don't enjoy his work on a franchise that I used to care about. There are many people who do enjoy his work and I don't want to be a dick to them by wishing Toyotaro to get fired. They see something in the manga that I don't and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by Mister_Popo » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:27 pm

Firing Toyotora would be a big mistake because there probably is nobody at this point who could do it better besides Toriyama himself. He is able to mimic Toriyamas style almost inch perfect. Toyotara could have some more attention to power scaling, i agree. I hope he does something constructive with it when he hears that feedback. But otherwise i think it's a great artist who has to live up to an awfully difficult job: making the successor of one the greatest manga-classics of all time. People do make mistakes on their jobs or do things that are less appreciated by their employers or clients, but that doesn't mean they have to be fired immediately when it happens.

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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by Draconic » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:33 pm

Eh... Some people like the manga and it sells decently. There's no point in firing him if he's doing his job and I am sure most everybody în charge is happy with him. As much as I dislike the manga (the only DB product I've ever dropped entirely) it is taking it way too far to have him lose his living, especially since he seems genuinely pasionate and trying to (unsuccessfully) improve.

Separating the author from the product is the best. Don't attack him. Just stop giving his work attention. Don't discuss it, don't read it, don't share it (including unofficial uploads, since that's still giving it exposure). Stop buying the volumes, stuff like that. If you hate the manga enough to wish it's writer fired, this option shouldn't be that hard for you to take.
Last edited by Draconic on Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:47 pm

The manga doesn't really come close to the anime in terms of importance for the Super brand.
It's in a monthly magazine yet its tankobon volumes manage to sell pretty decently, for a comicalization of an anime, which DB Super is first and foremost.

Its role in the franchise can't really be compared to that of the original manga as it's best viewed as the secondary source of Dragon Ball Super kinda like how Pokemon and Digimon, back in the day also had manga(and still has), that would deviate from the anime's plot and not really be that well known.
Based on all this and the aforementioned decent sales numbers, it doesn't really seem justified sacking him for pissing off random people on the internet with his story telling

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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by PFM18 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:51 pm

sintzu wrote:If we're talking about quality then they sure as hell deserve to be fired as they've written nothing that holds a candle to other Shonen or even the original DB.
Yeah I really don't think that is true. It certainly holds a candle to DBZ if not being equals with it. DB is a good bit better than both imo, but there's nothing that really sets DBZ as an anime apart from DBS to me. DBZ is probably better, and each one does things better than the other, but they are certainly on the same level. The reception that DBS has received across the fandom certainly seems representative of that. (not as much on here, but this place is only a small segment of the fan population)

As far as other Shonen go, you are comparing the 3rd series in a franchise to Shonen's that are just starting out with an infinite amount of character arcs and story lines avilable to be had. In Super, everyone's character arcs are pretty much over, and you can't reasonably expect a ton of character development from the main cast without being OoC like you can with any other Shonen. A new Shonen is a blank slate that can go a million different ways so it isn't really a fair comparison in that way.

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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by ekrolo2 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:00 pm

dbgtFO wrote:The manga doesn't really come close to the anime in terms of importance for the Super brand.
It's in a monthly magazine yet its tankobon volumes manage to sell pretty decently, for a comicalization of an anime, which DB Super is first and foremost.

Its role in the franchise can't really be compared to that of the original manga as it's best viewed as the secondary source of Dragon Ball Super kinda like how Pokemon and Digimon, back in the day also had manga(and still has), that would deviate from the anime's plot and not really be that well known.
Based on all this and the aforementioned decent sales numbers, it doesn't really seem justified sacking him for pissing off random people on the internet with his story telling
That's mostly the stance I've taken nowadays too. It's not a big seller that sets the charts on fire nor is it the basis for the anime, it's like the Pokémon manga, there to promote the main thing and do its own thing.

It's multitude of screw ups are to me infinitely more tolerable than much of the same problems in the main event.
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Re: Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

Post by BlueBasilisk » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:29 pm

I don't think he should be fired, but he really should take some time to work on his fundamentals. Anatomy, compososition, and story structure in particular.

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