Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

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Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by precita » Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:15 pm

This was a common complain in Ressurection of F when Freeza was first revived and came to Earth. Everyone said, "Well Beerus and Whis could kill Freeza in an instant, there is no tension!" But...that's not what happened. At the time Beerus didn't care much for Earth yet or if Goku won or not, he flat out told Freeza, "Do as you wish, I won't interfere" and Whis is neutral. Although Whis did save the earth after it was destroyed.

Likewise we have the same problem now with Broly coming to Earth. Assuming Beerus/Whis are there, either one of them could probably kill Broly in an instant. Obviously they won't, but Beerus has now had a major change of heart toward Goku and Earth from when he first met them, and now I think he would actually be upset if Goku or the planet were destroyed. So how do you think they'll separate tension from Beerus/Whis being theoretically easily able to dispatch future villains who come to Earth?

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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by PFM18 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:19 pm

precita wrote:Likewise we have the same problem now with Broly coming to Earth. Assuming Beerus/Whis are there, either one of them could probably kill Broly in an instant. O
Well the point is that Broly is stronger than Beerus so we are left feeling "Oh no! How can they defeat him if even Beerus can't beat him?" So that concern about tension is gone. And we know Whis is meant to be neutral in fights. So Beerus killing him in an instant is no longer a concern.

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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:23 pm

Their greatest weakness is the fact that they are bound to the life of the Supreme Kai, Shin, who is a weakling. Because of this, they do not pose a major threat to any future antagonist. As we saw from the conniving Zamasu, who was wise enough to eliminate any opposition within the god hierarcy before starting his grand and ambitious Project Zero Mortals, Beerus and Whis can easily be removed from the equation. How long did it take Zamasu to kill every Supreme Kai in the multiverse? Not long at all, they were all slaughtered in a few seconds. If the writers are really lazy, they can just disregard that and have Beerus return to bed and sleep for another million years. Either way, he is far from being a problem. The greater issue, is the fact that Broly the movie takes place before the End of Z, so Broly will be defeated no matter what happens. Hence why the only arc with major plot twists (the Future Trunks arc) took place in a timeline that did not enjoy plot armor. The End of Z is the true hindrance to any future antagonist, not Beerus.
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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by Lionel » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:29 pm

What was said about Broly being stronger than Beerus is true, I think. Whis is a different matter though.

The opposition could always think outside of the box for a change. Given what we know about Earth's relative technological standing in relation to the universe at large, what's to stop some other civilisation from devising something akin to the time machine? If they were to somehow isolate Beerus and Whis in the erased timeline then Broly would be free to confront the two Saiyans at his leisure. The issue here would lie in inducing a false sense of security in the duo and somehow forcing them into the future. Perhaps the time machine could be engineered as a spacial chamber that's preset to travel forward through time once the coordinates have been put in. Having Beerus and Whis become enticed through food as they're on a destruction job could potentially see these conditions forming. Mind you, all of this is just brainstorming ideas.

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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by Jack Bz » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:07 pm

You say you don't understand why they remove tension when the only reason anyone survives RoF is because Whis reverses time after Freeza destroyed the planet. He's only neutral in terms of not outright fighting.

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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by Xeztin » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:00 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:Their greatest weakness is the fact that they are bound to the life of the Supreme Kai, Shin, who is a weakling. Because of this, they do not pose a major threat to any future antagonist. As we saw from the conniving Zamasu, who was wise enough to eliminate any opposition within the god hierarcy before starting his grand and ambitious Project Zero Mortals, Beerus and Whis can easily be removed from the equation. How long did it take Zamasu to kill every Supreme Kai in the multiverse? Not long at all, they were all slaughtered in a few seconds. If the writers are really lazy, they can just disregard that and have Beerus return to bed and sleep for another million years. Either way, he is far from being a problem. The greater issue, is the fact that Broly the movie takes place before the End of Z, so Broly will be defeated no matter what happens. Hence why the only arc with major plot twists (the Future Trunks arc) took place in a timeline that did not enjoy plot armor. The End of Z is the true hindrance to any future antagonist, not Beerus.
They could update the EoZ as well, Broly could be somewhere else like Freeza. Beerus may have gone back to sleep by EoZ. We also don’t know of Goku will retain his memory as honestly He could have his memory wiped by Whis if it is deemed that mortals mingling with Gods is a bad thing.

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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:19 am

Jack Bz wrote:You say you don't understand why they remove tension when the only reason anyone survives RoF is because Whis reverses time after Freeza destroyed the planet. He's only neutral in terms of not outright fighting.
Pretty much this.

The problem is that Goku and friends can be bailed out if worst comes to worst. Whis' time manipulation was foreshadowed in Resurrection F so the only obstacle that needed to be overcome was Goku using his time wisely to make the final blow.

Whis was there the whole time, so the heroes had a huge advantage over Freeza. It was never like that before Beerus and Whis were introduced when they had to depend on themselves for everything.

Goku is also friends with Zeno now, which the writers will need to find a way around for Broly and other future villains to pose a threat.
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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by Kataphrut » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:31 am

It would have been fine if they'd stuck with the rule that Beerus and Whis won't lift a finger to help the heroes when they need it, but that rule was broken the very same movie it was introduced. Imagine how effective the ending of Resurrection F could have been if Freeza had blown up the Earth and Beerus and Whis turn to the gang and say "sort this out yourself guys, we're going home."

On the other hand, the gang being friends with these all-powerful gods isn't an inherently bad idea. All it means is you can't have any DBZ-style threat to the universe plots any more, but you couldn't have that in Super anyway due to End of Z epilogue, so what does it matter. Later arcs got around the issue by having the gods either be the cause of the problem (the two tournament arcs) or having the threat take place outside their jurisdiction in places that aren't protected by canon(Future Trunks).

So long as Beerus and Whis aren't physically present for the Broly fight, that movie shouldn't have the same problem Res F had. So far it doesn't look like they'll be getting involved, which is a good sign.

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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by Doctor. » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:35 am

There's no tension because we know everyone is alive at the epilogue.

There can actually be tension whenever Beerus and Whis are present now that we're actually reaching levels of power that are a threat to them because they can die. But there won't be, especially when Whis can turn back time, heal AND revive people now. He's a walking plot device and as long as he's strong enough to one shot Goku's opponents, there will never be any tension again.

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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by PFM18 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:42 pm

Well there's apparently no tension because EoZ exists. Because EoZ exists it automatically invalidates any potential tension. Regardless of how well the writing is, or how it is executed, Super automatically is bad because of where it lands in the time line. Absolutely nothing else to consider because we know people are going to be alive at the end of it, unlike with other series where we are led to believe that it is possible that the entire cast will be dead. Because it is realistic to think, and it makes for a good story, if the entire cast ends up dead at the end of it.

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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:56 pm

PFM18 wrote:Well there's apparently no tension because EoZ exists. Because EoZ exists it automatically invalidates any potential tension. Regardless of how well the writing is, or how it is executed, Super automatically is bad because of where it lands in the time line. Absolutely nothing else to consider because we know people are going to be alive at the end of it, unlike with other series where we are led to believe that it is possible that the entire cast will be dead. Because it is realistic to think, and it makes for a good story, if the entire cast ends up dead at the end of it.
Thats not true at all. Toriyama could easily retcon the end of z and have it never happen. The only thing it was really used for was Gt anyways and with the exception of mentioning uub one time, super has barely shown how it leading up to it. Speaking of uub, there is no point in goku training uub unless this uub is somehow WAY stronger than kid buu considering Gohan is already way past kid buu level as of the tournament of power. There is no point in buu saga tier characters when we have god level threats.

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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by PFM18 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:58 pm

Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:
PFM18 wrote:Well there's apparently no tension because EoZ exists. Because EoZ exists it automatically invalidates any potential tension. Regardless of how well the writing is, or how it is executed, Super automatically is bad because of where it lands in the time line. Absolutely nothing else to consider because we know people are going to be alive at the end of it, unlike with other series where we are led to believe that it is possible that the entire cast will be dead. Because it is realistic to think, and it makes for a good story, if the entire cast ends up dead at the end of it.
Thats not true at all. Toriyama could easily retcon the end of z and have it never happen. The only thing it was really used for was Gt anyways and with the exception of mentioning uub one time, super has barely shown how it leading up to it. Speaking of uub, there is no point in goku training uub unless this uub is somehow WAY stronger than kid buu considering Gohan is already way past kid buu level as of the tournament of power. There is no point in buu saga tier characters when we have god level threats.
I mean I was being extremely sarcastic. I don't think EoZ should have any baring whatsoever on DBS and how it is evaluated but people have somehow concluded that EoZ's existence automatically makes Super bad and devoid of tension.

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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:04 pm

I know. I was agreeing with you.

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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by Zamasu55 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:32 pm

Beerus is weaker than Broly.

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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by Oniman » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:02 pm

Beerus does not give two fucks unless he feels like he is threaten like with Zamasu.
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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by TheMikado » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:56 pm

Doctor. wrote:There's no tension because we know everyone is alive at the epilogue.

There can actually be tension whenever Beerus and Whis are present now that we're actually reaching levels of power that are a threat to them because they can die. But there won't be, especially when Whis can turn back time, heal AND revive people now. He's a walking plot device and as long as he's strong enough to one shot Goku's opponents, there will never be any tension again.
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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by Miracles » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:24 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:Beerus is weaker than Broly.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Beerus only showed fear to Zenoh.

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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by shadd21 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:36 pm

I will no longer be able to take the BoG arc seriously If they somehow claim that Beerus is stronger than Broly,

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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by Zamasu55 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:09 am

Miracles wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote:Beerus is weaker than Broly.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Beerus only showed fear to Zenoh.
You missed some news mate. It's already confirmed.

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Re: Why do people feel Beerus/Whis remove any tension from threats against Earth?

Post by Miracles » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:42 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:
Miracles wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote:Beerus is weaker than Broly.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Beerus only showed fear to Zenoh.
You missed some news mate. It's already confirmed.
Where? :o

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