Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:19 am

sintzu wrote:
Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:Now that The Bardock Special isnt cannon, that means episode of Bardock isn't cannon either, which is amazing cause Bardock being The First Super Saiyan is Dumb and still is dumb. If I have to lose Red Bandana Bardock to get rid of that, I´m all for it.
That was never canon to begin with as they clarified early on that it was a game only story.
To ge fair, The Bardock Special wasn't entirely canon itself either, even before this move trailer or Dragon Ball minus

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by ekrolo2 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:23 am

TysonWine wrote:Do you feel that would ruin or help Goku's story? I prefer the idea of Goku becoming good from a freak accident better as it keeps him unique. Him being a descendant from a line of kind hearted Saiyans makes him less special in my opinion.
I mean, he's already kinda broken beyond repair, I wouldn't be surprised if Bardock being removed from facing off Freeza leads into him and Gine secretly running away so they can meet Goku and his family later. Yes, I have that little respect for this series writing.
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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by TysonWine » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:30 am

ekrolo2 wrote:
TysonWine wrote:Do you feel that would ruin or help Goku's story? I prefer the idea of Goku becoming good from a freak accident better as it keeps him unique. Him being a descendant from a line of kind hearted Saiyans makes him less special in my opinion.
I mean, he's already kinda broken beyond repair, I wouldn't be surprised if Bardock being removed from facing off Freeza leads into him and Gine secretly running away so they can meet Goku and his family later. Yes, I have that little respect for this series writing.
At this point, I don't blame you. I always get worried when the series digs into the past as it always disappoints me. If Dragon Ball is to continue, I want it to focus strictly on the future. That way if the story's bad, it's just bad. It's not bad AND ruining something from the past.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by sintzu » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:33 am

ekrolo2 wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Bardock being removed from facing off Freeza leads into him and Gine secretly running away so they can meet Goku and his family later. Yes, I have that little respect for this series writing.
You know what...you may be right. If we don't see him die then they can easily introduce him into the story later. The have no shame saying an entire movie is being made based on popularity so why not.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:41 am

TysonWine wrote:Do you feel that would ruin or help Goku's story? I prefer the idea of Goku becoming good from a freak accident better as it keeps him unique. Him being a descendant from a line of kind hearted Saiyans makes him less special in my opinion.
The end of Jaco shows that Goku is still a violent little ruffian regardless of Gine's influence. Look at how scuffed up he and Grandpa Gohan are:
These two clearly had an altercation. Gohan even says he caused quite a ruckus in the panel before.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:47 am

In some regards they're changing up the Dragonball Minus special too. Adding in Broly, actually seeing what I'm assuming is the Saiyan's giving into Frieza and King Colds army.

The TV special will always hold a place in my heart. As will the first Broly movie. We just have to accept that this is a new Broly and new Bardock done from the pen of Toriyama.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by SSJgogeto » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:49 am

BlueBasilisk wrote:
TysonWine wrote:Do you feel that would ruin or help Goku's story? I prefer the idea of Goku becoming good from a freak accident better as it keeps him unique. Him being a descendant from a line of kind hearted Saiyans makes him less special in my opinion.
The end of Jaco shows that Goku is still a violent little ruffian regardless of Gine's influence. Look at how scuffed up he and Grandpa Gohan are:
These two clearly had an altercation. Gohan even says he caused quite a ruckus in the panel before.
The end of special, for other side, shows a happy cute baby Goku in Gohan's arms. Kind of ironic, I think.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by Xeztin » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:54 am

They also retconned what Kid Vegeta looked like even though he appeared in chapter 3 of super in 2015 and the show as well. Perhaps retconning is needed to tell a better story in some instance or to add to it. At first it was thought the Saiyan's were a bunch of cavemen before Freeza showed up and took them under his wing, but now we know they were a well established civilization long before Freeza. We also might get some story on the original Super Saiyan but I doubt it actually diving back in time pre-Planet Vegeta.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by Doctor. » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:59 am

Don't forget retconning Saiyan hair color by canonizing king Vegeta's brown hair.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by Grimlock » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:08 am

Xeztin wrote:They also retconned what Kid Vegeta looked like even though he appeared in chapter 3 of super in 2015 and the show as well.
You mean Vegeta's bangs? It is not a retcon, it's just that they don't care about continuity at all. It just shows how Toriyama was not fully involved in Dragon Ball Super. Vegeta with no bangs only appears where Toriyama is completely involved (aka, Movie 14 and Movie 1). Vegeta with bangs appears in Toei's/anime's continuity (Bardock's TV Special and Dragon Ball Super) and in Toyotaro's continuity.

You can be sure that Vegeta with bangs will appear again if they retell Movie 1.
Last edited by Grimlock on Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:13 am

Doctor. wrote:Don't forget retconning Saiyan hair color by canonizing king Vegeta's brown hair.
He had brown hair in Battle of Gods too. I think movie 8 was the only time he didn't.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by Xeztin » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:14 am

Grimlock wrote:
Xeztin wrote:They also retconned what Kid Vegeta looked like even though he appeared in chapter 3 of super in 2015 and the show as well.
You mean Vegeta's bangs? It is not a retcon, it's just that they don't care about continuity at all. It just shows how Toriyama was not fully involved in Dragon Ball Super. Vegeta with no bangs only appears where Toriyama is completely involved (aka, Movie 14 and Movie 1). Vegeta with bangs appears in Toei's/anime's continuity (Bardock's TV Special and Dragon Ball Super) and in Toyotaro's continuity.

You can be sure that Vegeta with bangs again will appear if they retell Movie 1.
If Vegeta, Broly, and Kakarot were born on the same day or are the same age, it does make Vegeta younger as well. Perhaps Vegeta get's bangs when he gets a little older but that doesn't make sense. Oh well, I'm very open to different continuities, the man is changing his own image of Bardock even though it was only in one panel in the original manga. If DB keeps going, it will write itself over multiple times, I'm surprised they don't reboot the entire original manga kind of like SD. we are definitely in the second era of Dragon Ball, or undergoing some kind of reboot little at a time.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by TheMikado » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:38 am

sintzu wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Bardock being removed from facing off Freeza leads into him and Gine secretly running away so they can meet Goku and his family later. Yes, I have that little respect for this series writing.
You know what...you may be right. If we don't see him die then they can easily introduce him into the story later. The have no shame saying an entire movie is being made based on popularity so why not.
They could have them escape to another timeline or universe and have them hang out with future trunks

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by TheMikado » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:41 am

supersaiyanZero wrote:Yes, let's retcon what was arguably one of the best works this franchise had to offer. :problem:

Have to wonder wtf goes on in that board room sometimes...
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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:54 am

I like this because based on what the trailer shows, it less ¨the story of a saiyan who hit his head and became good" and now its ¨The story of Goku, son of bardock

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by dragon boss z » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:38 pm

TheOne wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:
precita wrote:What a waste. The original Bardock special, along with the flashbacks of Freeza knocking out King Vegeta on his ship, and destroying Bardock and his team is no longer canon? So what happened to Bardock's team? Do they no longer exist, the ones Dodoria killed?

Bardock will no longer fight Freeza in space before he gets killed? Ugh, I hate Dragonball Minus becoming canon. Toriyama is going "George Lucas" with the series.
That special was never fully "canon", and it's been retconned since dragon ball minus which came out years ago. This isn't new. However Frieza's design is different which is weird.
It’s still frustrating though. If someone was to watch the entire dragon ball series, all the way up to the Broly movie (including bardock and history of Trunks) they would be confused as heck watching all these retcons.
You could say the same thing with the fillers and movies though. If someone wanted to watch dragon ball now I would say, watch dragon ball, then watch kai, then watch BoG/RoF/Super/Broly, and they could watch the history of Trunks as well. There would still be some slight confusions, but that would probably keep it to a minimum.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by sintzu » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:42 pm

TheMikado wrote:
supersaiyanZero wrote:Yes, let's retcon what was arguably one of the best works this franchise had to offer. :problem:

Have to wonder wtf goes on in that board room sometimes...
#money
Dollar signs
Exploiting the fandom for profits...
That's pretty much what they said when the movie was announced. "Broly's popular so we're bringing him back". They've done a...good (depending on your definition of good) job so far with modern/nostalgic DB so that's a thing I guess.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by ShadowBardock89 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:44 pm

precita wrote:If Bardock's rebellion doesn't happen and he doesn't confront Freeza in space, the series is ruined forever for me now.
Its in the manga, dude:
Image
Image

The only things that have changed are Bardock's role as Cassandra to Planet Vegeta's Troy and the existence of his crew (which I am torn over).
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=40715&start=20#p1439892
http://dba.bn-ent.net/character/barduck.html
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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by GodVegetto91 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:02 pm

It was never canon to begin with.
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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by PFM18 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:12 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:
Dbzk1999 wrote:A) “Becoming”? Why people are acting as if Minus wasn’t “canon” as soon as that chapter was released?

B) Also don’t know why people are acting as if similar events to what happened to the special could happen here. Doesn’t Minus itself take place about a month before freeza destroys planet vegeta? That special is day of its destruction
Well, the lack of a rebellion from Bardock in his iconic armor and the age change are 2 HUGE retcons brought by this trailer. So, according to the trailer, the events of Bardock’s rebellion DONT happen
Vegeta's age being significantly more than Goku's was only really a thing in the Episode of Bardock and that has long since been overwritten by Minus. So the trailer, or this movie, wouldn't really be doing that. And that is assuming that they don't still have Vegeta being significantly older in the movie. We do see Vegeta as a kid where as we don't see Goku.

But yeah I totally agree about Bardock's rebellion.

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