Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by SSJgogeto » Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:29 pm

precita wrote:So how are they going to retcon something in the manga? Of Freeza remembering Bardock, saying Goku looks like him, and remembering killing Bardock with his giant death ball?

THIS IS IN THE MANGA. It's not like something they can hand wave like anime filler or specials.
The manga retconned himself before, so I don't see the point here.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by TysonWine » Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:32 pm

Mister_Popo wrote: story isn't something static, it's alive and sensible to subtle changes.Because authors rethink details during the course of time, in change for the better
Adding details to an event is different from changing the event entirely. If I was describing my evening and said I ate a chicken sandwich at 8:00 and went to bed at 11:00, then later remember I took a shower at 10:00, the added detail of me taking a shower has no affect on the rest of my evening. Now if I said I ate a peanut butter sandwich at 8:00 that's a direct change in what I ate for dinner. Is it a big deal? Maybe...if I'm allergic to peanut butter, and don't wake up the next morning.

Key plot points SHOULD remain static, especially the further you dive into the past of a story due to the butterfly effect. I know I know, the author can do whatever they like with their story but changing key events are likely to be frowned upon and understandably so. We're not talking about adding subtle details, we're talking about changing the history of characters.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by Mister_Popo » Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:55 pm

TysonWine wrote:
Mister_Popo wrote: story isn't something static, it's alive and sensible to subtle changes.Because authors rethink details during the course of time, in change for the better
Adding details to an event is different from changing the event entirely. If I was describing my evening and said I ate a chicken sandwich at 8:00 and went to bed at 11:00, then later remember I took a shower at 10:00, the added detail of me taking a shower has no affect on the rest of my evening. Now if I said I ate a peanut butter sandwich at 8:00 that's a direct change in what I ate for dinner. Is it a big deal? Maybe...if I'm allergic to peanut butter, and don't wake up the next morning.

Key plot points SHOULD remain static, especially the further you dive into the past of a story due to the butterfly effect. I know I know, the author can do whatever they like with their story but changing key events are likely to be frowned upon and understandably so. W
e're not talking about adding subtle details, we're talking about changing the history of characters.

There is no canon but please don't touch the canon.

Bardock didn't have any role of significance in the original manga. He only was there in a few panels.
So what relevance does this truely have for the history of the story?

Minus is Toriyamas version of Bardocks story, that's history, it's in the movie.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by Jackalope89 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:07 pm

TysonWine wrote:
Mister_Popo wrote: story isn't something static, it's alive and sensible to subtle changes.Because authors rethink details during the course of time, in change for the better
Adding details to an event is different from changing the event entirely. If I was describing my evening and said I ate a chicken sandwich at 8:00 and went to bed at 11:00, then later remember I took a shower at 10:00, the added detail of me taking a shower has no affect on the rest of my evening. Now if I said I ate a peanut butter sandwich at 8:00 that's a direct change in what I ate for dinner. Is it a big deal? Maybe...if I'm allergic to peanut butter, and don't wake up the next morning.

Key plot points SHOULD remain static, especially the further you dive into the past of a story due to the butterfly effect. I know I know, the author can do whatever they like with their story but changing key events are likely to be frowned upon and understandably so. We're not talking about adding subtle details, we're talking about changing the history of characters.
Bardock didn't trust a psychopathic warlord from outer space? Check.
Goku made it off planet before it went boom? Check.
Freeza blows up planet of space pirates? Check.

Really, the rest is open to interpretation and has no real bearing on the series otherwise.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by Bullza » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:33 pm

SaiyanGod117 wrote:You’re joking right, because Minus whether by itself or conjoined with the manga is a generic subpar story.
No, that old Bardock movie was never that good. Minus was never that good. This expanded version they seem to be doing for the movie will likely be better though.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by alakazam^ » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:47 am

Mister_Popo wrote:What always does strike me with these hardcore 'Super-haters': they simply don't respect another opinion.
If you don't like it and you argument, i can not accept your arguments but i still respect your opinion.
What hardcore haters do is 'i don't like it, so even if you don't like it, you are saying crap, your opinion isn't valid because it's an objective fact it's bad'.
That's nonsense if you know how many people like the show. I don't believe all those folks that are watching it are plain idiots with bad taste that don't have the balls to stand out for their opinion.
Ever since Super started it's always the same people being toxic for no reason. They complain and whine and misinterpret things and generally stop thinking because all they care about is spreading their poison to others. They get extremely mad because they know they're just a vocal minority and have no power to change anything so they resort to bashing Toriyama, Toyotarou, Toei, the Dragon Ball Room and whomever gets in the way. Just to vent frustration and always with poor reasoning. They are successful in annoying others but, at the end of the day, they're the ones feeling miserable while the rest are perfectly happy being involved with new Dragon Ball.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by Master Xar » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:39 am

alakazam^ wrote:
Mister_Popo wrote:What always does strike me with these hardcore 'Super-haters': they simply don't respect another opinion.
If you don't like it and you argument, i can not accept your arguments but i still respect your opinion.
What hardcore haters do is 'i don't like it, so even if you don't like it, you are saying crap, your opinion isn't valid because it's an objective fact it's bad'.
That's nonsense if you know how many people like the show. I don't believe all those folks that are watching it are plain idiots with bad taste that don't have the balls to stand out for their opinion.
Ever since Super started it's always the same people being toxic for no reason. They complain and whine and misinterpret things and generally stop thinking because all they care about is spreading their poison to others. They get extremely mad because they know they're just a vocal minority and have no power to change anything so they resort to bashing Toriyama, Toyotarou, Toei, the Dragon Ball Room and whomever gets in the way. Just to vent frustration and always with poor reasoning. They are successful in annoying others but, at the end of the day, they're the ones feeling miserable while the rest are perfectly happy being involved with new Dragon Ball.
Never understood this “crusade” it goes back to the RedLetterMedia Boogeyman BS. The same blatant disrespect to the creators and runners behind the show it’s legitimately irritates me to watch it. It especially boils my blood to see so much disrespect towards Toei Animation and Toriyama simply for changing a few things (which honestly were not/barely canon in the first place). Arguing over canon with quite literally the most MINOR details like armor and clothing or if it was there or not. This dumb debate over if Goku was a Toddler or Baby when he got to Earth.

I could get going against blatantly disrespectful or horrible creators that are horrible to the fans or as human beings. But this is definitely NO call for it here. It just feels like half the people always want to jump to these massive conclusions or want to be these big changes because they don’t get what they want or had too many sour grapes with modern Dragonball. I’ve seen several people actually just throw out all of Dragonball outside of the manga and on the other side of the spectrum said Dragonball was always this “nonsensical BS, children show, retarded since the beginning. Etc.”

And it’s at this point I feel the fandom is just going in circles.

1.) Toriyama/Toei drops news/trailer/interview.
2.) fandom gets hyped or curious.
3.) fandom speculates. Mostly blatantly stupid theories far out of the Dragonball norm.
4.) News Drop and a chunk of the fandom is discontent. Mostly because they didn’t get their theory confirmed or clashed with what they like.
5.) fandom clash of explanation vs. “it’s Toriyama and Toei being them again huhuh”
6.) Fandom gets it’s shit together and eventually realize the problem wasn’t as big a deal as they thought or we get concensus.
7.) rinse and repeat.

Look at EVERY big news moment that drops during the movies/Super runtime. I can’t even decide if it’s boring or annoying to watch. Maybe both.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by Luso Saiyan » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:31 am

Master Xar wrote:Never understood this “crusade” it goes back to the RedLetterMedia Boogeyman BS. The same blatant disrespect to the creators and runners behind the show it’s legitimately irritates me to watch it. It especially boils my blood to see so much disrespect towards Toei Animation and Toriyama simply for changing a few things (which honestly were not/barely canon in the first place).
Someone mentioned George Lucas earlier, and sadly he has this in common with Toriyama: Fans attacking the creators of the franchises simply because they chose to tell their own story (of their own fictional world) that happen to not meet certain fans whims and preferences.

Toriyama, as far as we know, changed nothing. He's simply telling his story (well, he told it 4 years ago) from a certain point in time of his franchise. The original Bardock special was not his story. That fact has been known for decades. I genuinely don't know why people are acting surprised (if not irate) about this. People don't have to like it. But Toriyama should be allowed to tell (and stick to) his story anyway, irrespective of previous licensed interpretations of characters and events.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by TheMikado » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:25 am

Luso Saiyan wrote:
Master Xar wrote:Never understood this “crusade” it goes back to the RedLetterMedia Boogeyman BS. The same blatant disrespect to the creators and runners behind the show it’s legitimately irritates me to watch it. It especially boils my blood to see so much disrespect towards Toei Animation and Toriyama simply for changing a few things (which honestly were not/barely canon in the first place).
Someone mentioned George Lucas earlier, and sadly he has this in common with Toriyama: Fans attacking the creators of the franchises simply because they chose to tell their own story (of their own fictional world) that happen to not meet certain fans whims and preferences.

Toriyama, as far as we know, changed nothing. He's simply telling his story (well, he told it 4 years ago) from a certain point in time of his franchise. The original Bardock special was not his story. That fact has been known for decades. I genuinely don't know why people are acting surprised (if not irate) about this. People don't have to like it. But Toriyama should be allowed to tell (and stick to) his story anyway, irrespective of previous licensed interpretations of characters and events.
Yeah it would different if IT WAS ACTUALLY TORIYAMA’S STORY.

From the beginning Super has been nothing but Toriyama retelling stories someone else had already made or made creative decisions on. Super Saiyan Gods and God’s of Destruction WERE NOT Toriyamas story. Bringing Trunks back.. NOT Toriyamas idea, Broly.. NOT even toriyamas character or story.

The issue fans have is that while nothing is a pure vacuum, modern DB seems to have more outside influences which seem to taint the creative process more than the original series. The reality is that without the influences we are seeing, if Toriyama went to continue the series it likely would have looked very different because many of the original concepts aren’t his.

Anyway the entire creative process is bonked. It’s not some guy and his editor trying to figure out how to make a cool story that kids will buy. It’s executives and board rooms with charts and writers throwing ideas around and talking in dollar signs. We all were aware of the formation of the “Dragon Room” let’s not act Iike it was a Dragonball fan club where everyone could just talk about how much they loved Dragonball. We are progressively getting more and more aggressive marketing towards fan service for a reason.

Way back in 2015/16 I predicted we would get the LSSJ and Broly possible canonized and here we are going into 2019 with a Broly movie no less. I was talk by fans that it was crazy, insane, never going to happen, Toriyama wouldn’t do something like that... etc etc etc. But the formula for modern DB was the same. Fan service, cash grab... I’m actually interested to see how the Broly movie turns out.

But lets quit acting like this is the story Toriyama wanted or would have told without outside influences focused on profits and money. Let’s call modern DBs story what it actually is; what ever sells.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by Luso Saiyan » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:45 am

TheMikado wrote:Yeah it would different if IT WAS ACTUALLY TORIYAMA’S STORY.
It is Toriyama's story. No need to yell.
TheMikado wrote:From the beginning Super has been nothing but Toriyama retelling stories someone else had already made or made creative decisions on. Super Saiyan Gods and God’s of Destruction WERE NOT Toriyamas story. Bringing Trunks back.. NOT Toriyamas idea, Broly.. NOT even toriyamas character or story.
Dragon Ball is Toriyama's creation. BoG is not a retellying of anything. It's a Toriyama story. The fact that it retained some elements of a previous iteration of a story doesn't make it a retelling. It only means Toriyama liked those elements enough to retain them. RoF is also a Toriyama story. Universe 6 tournament is also a Toriyama story. The Future Trunks arc is also a Toriyama story. The idea of Trunks returning was a pitch made to Toriyama. He was the one who still decided wether to use it or not (suggesting Trunks returning is not in and on itself a story). This movie is also a Toriyama story. The previous Broly movies were not Toriyama's creation. He's not taking credit for those, so I'm not sure why you're bringing those up.
TheMikado wrote:The issue fans have is that while nothing is a pure vacuum, modern DB seems to have more outside influences which seem to taint the creative process more than the original series.
That's a strawman. The question posed by this thread has nothing to do with any perceived "outside influences" or "tainted" creative process. It's actually related to the events of Dragon Ball Minus being incorporated into the movie. Dragon Ball Minus is something Toriyama conceived by himself. It's his version of events.

None of this is news. It's his story, he's entitled to it. That he stands by it is something that shouldn't be a surprise, but expected (and respected). Irrespective of taste and personal preferences, which can be expressed without hyperbolic trash talk and personal attacks.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:06 am

Bullza wrote:
SaiyanGod117 wrote:You’re joking right, because Minus whether by itself or conjoined with the manga is a generic subpar story.
No, that old Bardock movie was never that good. Minus was never that good. This expanded version they seem to be doing for the movie will likely be better though.
It wasn’t a masterpiece, but it was definitely good, so we will just have to wait and see with what they do Minus. With that being said, even if they’re expaning upon it they’re still using its general synopsis in which is already flawed.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by coola » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:13 am

It also retcon origins of Goku, by changing him into Superman clone, rather than one of many Saiyan babies sent to different planets, that luckly (for earthlings/Universe) hit his head.

Maybe we will learn more about Minus Bardock here? Like Gaffer Tape said in Dragon Ball Dissection, that was one o biggest flaws, we didn't know anything about this new Bardock. It's like Tim Burton expected people to watch West Batman before they watched Batman 1989, no, they are two different characters.

As for canon/non canon, Disney reset Expanded Universe, but i don't like where Disney canon is going, so i ignore it, and just enjoy EU :)
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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:19 am

coola wrote:It also retcon origins of Goku, by changing him into Superman clone, rather than one of many Saiyan babies sent to different planets, that luckly (for earthlings/Universe) hit his head.

Maybe we will learn more about Minus Bardock here? Like Gaffer Tape said in Dragon Ball Dissection, that was one o biggest flaws, we didn't know anything about this new Bardock. It's like Tim Burton expected people to watch West Batman before they watched Batman 1989, no, they are two different characters.

As for canon/non canon, Disney reset Expanded Universe, but i don't like where Disney canon is going, so i ignore it, and just enjoy EU :)
The difference between Star Wars and Dragon Ball is the former garners actually some respect to draw ire from whereas DB gets none as a series of (once) substantive worth. If Lucas did half the crap Toriyama gets away with, he'd get lynched by an actual mob.
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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:49 am

alakazam^ wrote:
Mister_Popo wrote:What always does strike me with these hardcore 'Super-haters': they simply don't respect another opinion.
If you don't like it and you argument, i can not accept your arguments but i still respect your opinion.
What hardcore haters do is 'i don't like it, so even if you don't like it, you are saying crap, your opinion isn't valid because it's an objective fact it's bad'.
That's nonsense if you know how many people like the show. I don't believe all those folks that are watching it are plain idiots with bad taste that don't have the balls to stand out for their opinion.
Ever since Super started it's always the same people being toxic for no reason. They complain and whine and misinterpret things and generally stop thinking because all they care about is spreading their poison to others. They get extremely mad because they know they're just a vocal minority and have no power to change anything so they resort to bashing Toriyama, Toyotarou, Toei, the Dragon Ball Room and whomever gets in the way. Just to vent frustration and always with poor reasoning. They are successful in annoying others but, at the end of the day, they're the ones feeling miserable while the rest are perfectly happy being involved with new Dragon Ball.
It puzzles me that so many people apparently did not realize this was coming long before now, without this trailer shoving it in their faces. What did they think it meant when the Jaco manga was revealed as a prequel to Dragon Ball, or when he showed up in Resurrection F and throughout Super along with Tights, the Galactic King and we had flashbacks to Kid Bulma flying Jaco's ship? Or when people immediately noticed that shot of Bardock's hand on Goku's pod in the last trailer and pegged it as the departure scene from Minus?

Minus isn't a stand-alone story just chucked in at the end of the book, it's actually the prologue chapter to Jaco the Galactic Patrolman. It ends with Jaco leaving for Earth to stop Goku's pod and Minus' story concludes in Jaco's last chapter with little Goku meeting his Grandpa Gohan. Both versions of Super have been completely upfront about accepting this version of events.

I'm really curious how many people actually read all of Jaco and how many people just read Minus by itself and have no idea about Goku, Bulma and Gohan showing up at the end.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by Miracles » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:32 pm

The bardock anime special was never canon. Only the part where Toriyama inserted Freeza destroying planet Vegeta along with Bardock opposing him in his manga. Minus IS canon since it is done by Toriyama himself.
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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by ricky84 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:34 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
coola wrote:It also retcon origins of Goku, by changing him into Superman clone, rather than one of many Saiyan babies sent to different planets, that luckly (for earthlings/Universe) hit his head.

Maybe we will learn more about Minus Bardock here? Like Gaffer Tape said in Dragon Ball Dissection, that was one o biggest flaws, we didn't know anything about this new Bardock. It's like Tim Burton expected people to watch West Batman before they watched Batman 1989, no, they are two different characters.

As for canon/non canon, Disney reset Expanded Universe, but i don't like where Disney canon is going, so i ignore it, and just enjoy EU :)
The difference between Star Wars and Dragon Ball is the former garners actually some respect to draw ire from whereas DB gets none as a series of (once) substantive worth. If Lucas did half the crap Toriyama gets away with, he'd get lynched by an actual mob.
False Analogy. Lucas did plenty of bullshit with the prequel and sequel trilogies and still get bashed for it.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:53 pm

ricky84 wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
coola wrote:It also retcon origins of Goku, by changing him into Superman clone, rather than one of many Saiyan babies sent to different planets, that luckly (for earthlings/Universe) hit his head.

Maybe we will learn more about Minus Bardock here? Like Gaffer Tape said in Dragon Ball Dissection, that was one o biggest flaws, we didn't know anything about this new Bardock. It's like Tim Burton expected people to watch West Batman before they watched Batman 1989, no, they are two different characters.

As for canon/non canon, Disney reset Expanded Universe, but i don't like where Disney canon is going, so i ignore it, and just enjoy EU :)
The difference between Star Wars and Dragon Ball is the former garners actually some respect to draw ire from whereas DB gets none as a series of (once) substantive worth. If Lucas did half the crap Toriyama gets away with, he'd get lynched by an actual mob.
False Analogy. Lucas did plenty of bullshit with the prequel and sequel trilogies and still get bashed for it.
Lucas gets rightly deserved ire, but my point is, Toriyama has already pulled quite a few things that put him well into Lucas' camp if not his equal and nobody cares or just shruggs it off like damaging your series is totally fine. That's what I mean when DB gets no respect, its creator can bork it nine ways to sunday and the vast, vast, vast majority of people well just wave it off and say: "Oh that Toriyama!"
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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by TheMikado » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:47 pm

Luso Saiyan wrote:
TheMikado wrote:Yeah it would different if IT WAS ACTUALLY TORIYAMA’S STORY.
It is Toriyama's story. No need to yell.
TheMikado wrote:From the beginning Super has been nothing but Toriyama retelling stories someone else had already made or made creative decisions on. Super Saiyan Gods and God’s of Destruction WERE NOT Toriyamas story. Bringing Trunks back.. NOT Toriyamas idea, Broly.. NOT even toriyamas character or story.
Dragon Ball is Toriyama's creation. BoG is not a retellying of anything. It's a Toriyama story. The fact that it retained some elements of a previous iteration of a story doesn't make it a retelling. It only means Toriyama liked those elements enough to retain them. RoF is also a Toriyama story. Universe 6 tournament is also a Toriyama story. The Future Trunks arc is also a Toriyama story. The idea of Trunks returning was a pitch made to Toriyama. He was the one who still decided wether to use it or not (suggesting Trunks returning is not in and on itself a story). This movie is also a Toriyama story. The previous Broly movies were not Toriyama's creation. He's not taking credit for those, so I'm not sure why you're bringing those up.
TheMikado wrote:The issue fans have is that while nothing is a pure vacuum, modern DB seems to have more outside influences which seem to taint the creative process more than the original series.
That's a strawman. The question posed by this thread has nothing to do with any perceived "outside influences" or "tainted" creative process. It's actually related to the events of Dragon Ball Minus being incorporated into the movie. Dragon Ball Minus is something Toriyama conceived by himself. It's his version of events.

None of this is news. It's his story, he's entitled to it. That he stands by it is something that shouldn't be a surprise, but expected (and respected). Irrespective of taste and personal preferences, which can be expressed without hyperbolic trash talk and personal attacks.
Toriyama is free to do as he likes, but the continued false equivalence of Dragonball then versus Dragonball now is the point.

The original Dragonball was made in a very different time in a very different way. Acting as if its the same creative process is self delusion.

Modern Dragonball is made with mutliple authors or are you claiming that everything Dragonball IS Toriyamas and thus should be treated equally in terms of its creative content and authority? You're trying to claim there is a level of involvment surrounding theae projects without specifying what that level is. Toriyama has writing credits on everything from GT to the movies. Toriyama designed the previous Broly but suddenly its not his? It seems you want to give Toriyama full credit when its convenient and none where you dont want his name on a project.

The fact is in terms of production modern DB does not have the same creative process as the original manga. This is fact it shows in the artistic process and product.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by supersaiyanZero » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:11 pm

Bullza wrote:
SaiyanGod117 wrote:You’re joking right, because Minus whether by itself or conjoined with the manga is a generic subpar story.
No, that old Bardock movie was never that good. Minus was never that good. This expanded version they seem to be doing for the movie will likely be better though.
Lmao, the original bardock movie was one of the best lore building and stand alone movies the franchise has to offer. You're clearly trolling.

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Re: Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

Post by coola » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:56 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
ricky84 wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote: The difference between Star Wars and Dragon Ball is the former garners actually some respect to draw ire from whereas DB gets none as a series of (once) substantive worth. If Lucas did half the crap Toriyama gets away with, he'd get lynched by an actual mob.
False Analogy. Lucas did plenty of bullshit with the prequel and sequel trilogies and still get bashed for it.
Lucas gets rightly deserved ire, but my point is, Toriyama has already pulled quite a few things that put him well into Lucas' camp if not his equal and nobody cares or just shruggs it off like damaging your series is totally fine. That's what I mean when DB gets no respect, its creator can bork it nine ways to sunday and the vast, vast, vast majority of people well just wave it off and say: "Oh that Toriyama!"
My only problem with George Lucas, was that he refused to re release Original Trilogy in unaltered version, instead he made it worse with every release.
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Thanks to Discotek:
Magic Knight Rayearth get DVD release in 2015 and Blu-Ray release on 2016
Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas get DVD release in 2015

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