Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by Hulk10 » Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:26 pm

Or maybe Vegeta feels that its better to leave Planet Vegeta unrevived. But I suspect that the real reason is that the creators haven't seen fit to have them do it.
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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by TheOne » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:36 am

Personally, I don’t think Vegeta has any desire to have the Saiyan race revived. I’ll say why in the spoiler tag for people who haven’t watched the movie.
How i predict the tournament will end:

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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by zarmack » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:44 am

TheOne wrote:Personally, I don’t think Vegeta has any desire to have the Saiyan race revived. I’ll say why in the spoiler tag for people who haven’t watched the movie.

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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by TheOne » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:46 am

zarmack wrote:
TheOne wrote:Personally, I don’t think Vegeta has any desire to have the Saiyan race revived. I’ll say why in the spoiler tag for people who haven’t watched the movie.
How i predict the tournament will end:

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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by zarmack » Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:07 am

TheOne wrote:
zarmack wrote:
TheOne wrote:Personally, I don’t think Vegeta has any desire to have the Saiyan race revived. I’ll say why in the spoiler tag for people who haven’t watched the movie.

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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by TheOne » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:17 am

zarmack wrote:
TheOne wrote:
zarmack wrote:
Not sure if I have the patience anymore to go back and forth with guys like you and your head canon. So many things I want to point out with your flawed logic, but I really don’t want to waste my time.
How i predict the tournament will end:

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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by Waluigiman » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:45 pm

That's just me but that's one of the last things I want to happen in Dragon Ball as I am no longer interested in Saiyans. This is coming from someone who usually likes the non-human characters but in Dragon ball, the human characters are more interesting. I don't have a problem with reviving Raditz and Nappa as long they keep them unique.

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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by zarmack » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:25 pm

Waluigiman wrote:That's just me but that's one of the last things I want to happen in Dragon Ball as I am no longer interested in Saiyans. This is coming from someone who usually likes the non-human characters but in Dragon ball, the human characters are more interesting. I don't have a problem with reviving Raditz and Nappa as long they keep them unique.
The humans except Bulma and the Cyborg twins are among the least interesting characters in the whole franchise, and not just compared to the Saiyans either. Seriously, what do characters like Tien, Krillin and Yamacha have over characters like Piccolo, Vegeta and Freeza? Literally nothing in terms of writing, charactization and especially the coolness factor.

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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by Lionel » Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:38 pm

The responsibility of finding nuanced import for the human earthlings rests on the shoulders of the one that is steering the movement of the pen, in this case Toyotaro and his advisory mentor, Toriyama. Were the drive and initiative to exist then who's to say what the limits would be for uncovering and developing newly interesting sub-plotlines for the humans that intertwine with the current narrative. Tenshinhan by himself is a disowned practitioner of the Crane School who still dons its colours, uses its techniques, and has refused to disavow its stylistic form. We know that there's outside perceived validation of its teachings because more and more non-Crane related fighters are taking advantage of one of its techniques, the Taiyoken, for their personal use. Build upon Tenshinhan's desire to redeem the Crane style and make it a true respectable competitor to the Kame style with its signature move having just as much recognition in the eyes of the multiverse as the Kamehameha probably has. You could also work in there Tenshinan's underlying distrust of the current crop of relevant anti-heroes and his contempt at being so reliant on others for safety.

Right there you could have a solid meaningful incentive for making Tenshinhan's character proactive once again. Now for the others, I haven't given as much thought. Krillin does have his relationship with the cyborgs and childhood affections and loyalty to Goku and the Kame house -- not sure how you could make that into a powerful current of impetus for him as it stands. Yamcha? He's mostly on the domestic scene. Any unique observations or interactions that he had with the current class of relevant beings, deities, occurred back in his fight with Kami. Good luck jump-starting his resurgence from that. By chance could he hope to make a name for himself by becoming a more respectable and worthwhile fighter to have with you? Most of his attempts to provide support sans the Pilaf arc and the Invisible Man fight have ended in failure. Turn him into an aspiring underdog looking to turn his luck around if you want. Last is Chaozu with the least personalised characterisation. He's more of a satellite ancillary to Tenshinhan than his own distinct character. If you wanted to incorporate him then you might be better off having him following in his companion's footsteps with the above proposed ambition.

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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by Nickolaidas » Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:47 pm

zarmack wrote:
Waluigiman wrote:That's just me but that's one of the last things I want to happen in Dragon Ball as I am no longer interested in Saiyans. This is coming from someone who usually likes the non-human characters but in Dragon ball, the human characters are more interesting. I don't have a problem with reviving Raditz and Nappa as long they keep them unique.
The humans except Bulma and the Cyborg twins are among the least interesting characters in the whole franchise, and not just compared to the Saiyans either. Seriously, what do characters like Tien, Krillin and Yamacha have over characters like Piccolo, Vegeta and Freeza? Literally nothing in terms of writing, charactization and especially the coolness factor.
Yeah no.

See, the only reason you think that is the fact that the humans are low powered and have less screen time when compared to the Saiyans. There is nothing about Vegeta's personality that makes him more interesting than Krillin or Tenshinhan, other than the fact that he's stronger and gets more screen time. Krillin is just as interesting as Vegeta through other means - we saw him fighting with his fears and phobias in Super, and the series explained to us how Krillin's deaths and failures have put a large scar to his morale and willpower. It's interesting stuff that when explored capably, can produce tremendous results.

Roshi felt finished and done with as a character, yet with a few new episodes and focus on him he became more interesting than ever. It's all about screen time and focus.

I'll say it until I die. Humans are just as interesting than the saiyans, if not more. It's the lack of screentime that hurts them. It's hard to be excited for a character when he hasn't done anything in the last 200 episodes. Which is why I will never understand Toriyama's decision to make humans so weak when compared to the saiyans.

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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by zarmack » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:03 pm

Nickolaidas wrote:
zarmack wrote:
Waluigiman wrote:That's just me but that's one of the last things I want to happen in Dragon Ball as I am no longer interested in Saiyans. This is coming from someone who usually likes the non-human characters but in Dragon ball, the human characters are more interesting. I don't have a problem with reviving Raditz and Nappa as long they keep them unique.
The humans except Bulma and the Cyborg twins are among the least interesting characters in the whole franchise, and not just compared to the Saiyans either. Seriously, what do characters like Tien, Krillin and Yamacha have over characters like Piccolo, Vegeta and Freeza? Literally nothing in terms of writing, charactization and especially the coolness factor.
Yeah no.

See, the only reason you think that is the fact that the humans are low powered and have less screen time when compared to the Saiyans. There is nothing about Vegeta's personality that makes him more interesting than Krillin or Tenshinhan, other than the fact that he's stronger and gets more screen time. Krillin is just as interesting as Vegeta through other means - we saw him fighting with his fears and phobias in Super, and the series explained to us how Krillin's deaths and failures have put a large scar to his morale and willpower. It's interesting stuff that when explored capably, can produce tremendous results.

Roshi felt finished and done with as a character, yet with a few new episodes and focus on him he became more interesting than ever. It's all about screen time and focus.

I'll say it until I die. Humans are just as interesting than the saiyans, if not more. It's the lack of screentime that hurts them. It's hard to be excited for a character when he hasn't done anything in the last 200 episodes. Which is why I will never understand Toriyama's decision to make humans so weak when compared to the saiyans.
Literally everything about Vegeta's personality and actions (especially in Z) make him way more interesting as a character than any of the Humans (with the possible exception of Bulma). Same with Goku, Future Trunks, Gohan and a lesser extent Bardock (90's version) Caulifla and even Broly (both versions). Have you ever considered the possibly that the reason why Toriyama phased out the Human fighters (and stopped giving them much sceentime) merely because he saw them as inherently kinda uninteresting (particular Chichi & Tien who he made his distaste for known) and not because of power levels? Toriyama could have easily found ways to make them strong enough to keep them relevant (like he did with Piccolo until the Buu arc and A17 in the ToP) if he was so inclined, especially in the Buu saga which featured several powerups that aren't Saiyan based. So your arguments don't really work.

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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by Nickolaidas » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:34 pm

zarmack wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:
zarmack wrote:
The humans except Bulma and the Cyborg twins are among the least interesting characters in the whole franchise, and not just compared to the Saiyans either. Seriously, what do characters like Tien, Krillin and Yamacha have over characters like Piccolo, Vegeta and Freeza? Literally nothing in terms of writing, charactization and especially the coolness factor.
Yeah no.

See, the only reason you think that is the fact that the humans are low powered and have less screen time when compared to the Saiyans. There is nothing about Vegeta's personality that makes him more interesting than Krillin or Tenshinhan, other than the fact that he's stronger and gets more screen time. Krillin is just as interesting as Vegeta through other means - we saw him fighting with his fears and phobias in Super, and the series explained to us how Krillin's deaths and failures have put a large scar to his morale and willpower. It's interesting stuff that when explored capably, can produce tremendous results.

Roshi felt finished and done with as a character, yet with a few new episodes and focus on him he became more interesting than ever. It's all about screen time and focus.

I'll say it until I die. Humans are just as interesting than the saiyans, if not more. It's the lack of screentime that hurts them. It's hard to be excited for a character when he hasn't done anything in the last 200 episodes. Which is why I will never understand Toriyama's decision to make humans so weak when compared to the saiyans.
Literally everything about Vegeta's personality and actions (especially in Z) make him way more interesting as a character than any of the Humans (with the possible exception of Bulma). Same with Goku, Future Trunks, Gohan and a lesser extent Bardock (90's version) Caulifla and even Broly (both versions). Have you ever considered the possibly that the reason why Toriyama phased out the Human fighters (and stopped giving them much sceentime) merely because he saw them as inherently kinda uninteresting (particular Chichi & Tien who he made his distaste for known) and not because of power levels? Toriyama could have easily found ways to make them strong enough to keep them relevant (like he did with Piccolo until the Buu arc and A17 in the ToP) if he was so inclined, especially in the Buu saga which featured several powerups that aren't Saiyan based. So your arguments don't really work.
Toriyama until the middle of Super phased out everyone besides Goku and Vegeta - not just the Earthlings. Piccolo stopped being relevant after the fight with #17, despite being his favorite character. For some reason he wanted the show to be about 3-4 saiyans, no one else - and it had nothing to do with just earthlings, all creatures suffered from it. Heck, Kaioshin becomes irrelevant in his own arc! And he's supposed to be the god of gods at that point.

Which is why I applaud his writing in Super. The last 80-100 episodes of Z sucked, imo for this very reason, everyone besides Goku, Vegeta and Gohan were worthless and had almost no screen time, despite the fact that could be easily remedied. Satan was ... a weird exception, an attempt to turn a gag character into real character (and he did it alright).


*shrugs* Maybe Toriyama didn't want to draw 20 characters on every panel so he gave half of them the boot in order to draw less (Which would explain why in Super many characters come back, since he wasn't doing the drawing anymore and just wrote the story - heck, this explains the battle royale as well, since he was now able to think of stuff he wouldn't dare to draw back then).

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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:43 pm

It doesn't really matter as it won't happen.
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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by Waluigiman » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:04 pm

zarmack wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:
zarmack wrote:
The humans except Bulma and the Cyborg twins are among the least interesting characters in the whole franchise, and not just compared to the Saiyans either. Seriously, what do characters like Tien, Krillin and Yamacha have over characters like Piccolo, Vegeta and Freeza? Literally nothing in terms of writing, charactization and especially the coolness factor.
Yeah no.

See, the only reason you think that is the fact that the humans are low powered and have less screen time when compared to the Saiyans. There is nothing about Vegeta's personality that makes him more interesting than Krillin or Tenshinhan, other than the fact that he's stronger and gets more screen time. Krillin is just as interesting as Vegeta through other means - we saw him fighting with his fears and phobias in Super, and the series explained to us how Krillin's deaths and failures have put a large scar to his morale and willpower. It's interesting stuff that when explored capably, can produce tremendous results.

Roshi felt finished and done with as a character, yet with a few new episodes and focus on him he became more interesting than ever. It's all about screen time and focus.

I'll say it until I die. Humans are just as interesting than the saiyans, if not more. It's the lack of screentime that hurts them. It's hard to be excited for a character when he hasn't done anything in the last 200 episodes. Which is why I will never understand Toriyama's decision to make humans so weak when compared to the saiyans.
Literally everything about Vegeta's personality and actions (especially in Z) make him way more interesting as a character than any of the Humans (with the possible exception of Bulma). Same with Goku, Future Trunks, Gohan and a lesser extent Bardock (90's version) Caulifla and even Broly (both versions). Have you ever considered the possibly that the reason why Toriyama phased out the Human fighters (and stopped giving them much sceentime) merely because he saw them as inherently kinda uninteresting (particular Chichi & Tien who he made his distaste for known) and not because of power levels? Toriyama could have easily found ways to make them strong enough to keep them relevant (like he did with Piccolo until the Buu arc and A17 in the ToP) if he was so inclined, especially in the Buu saga which featured several powerups that aren't Saiyan based. So your arguments don't really work.
What I say is mostly just my perspective but I feel that saiyans are not as interesting as I used to see them but this is mostly because they feel like they are not unique in personality as it turns out that they take Goku's personality traits and turn them into a racial instinct. And they always rely on transformations (something that used to be rare). in the tournament of power, I felt somewhat disappointed that a large quantity of the focus went to Kale and Caulifla and they pretty much just did everything Goku and Vegeta (and Broly do) and pretty much felt that Goku and Vegeta were fighting some clones. It gets bad when Goku and Vegeta do everything and if it wasn't too Saiyan-centric enough, they felt the need to make a villain a purple replica of Vegeta. I feel that Vegeta is being too repetitive with his stuff and lately he just going through a loop, I think he needs more breaks and during those breaks have someone else take his place.

Human characters in the other hand have been left behind and their "character arcs" are left unfinished and not only that, they also have different abilities and personalities from each other and can do more than the saiyans who only care about being stronger or fighting strong people.

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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by Waluigiman » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:17 pm

Waluigiman wrote:
zarmack wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:
Yeah no.

See, the only reason you think that is the fact that the humans are low powered and have less screen time when compared to the Saiyans. There is nothing about Vegeta's personality that makes him more interesting than Krillin or Tenshinhan, other than the fact that he's stronger and gets more screen time. Krillin is just as interesting as Vegeta through other means - we saw him fighting with his fears and phobias in Super, and the series explained to us how Krillin's deaths and failures have put a large scar to his morale and willpower. It's interesting stuff that when explored capably, can produce tremendous results.

Roshi felt finished and done with as a character, yet with a few new episodes and focus on him he became more interesting than ever. It's all about screen time and focus.

I'll say it until I die. Humans are just as interesting than the saiyans, if not more. It's the lack of screentime that hurts them. It's hard to be excited for a character when he hasn't done anything in the last 200 episodes. Which is why I will never understand Toriyama's decision to make humans so weak when compared to the saiyans.
Literally everything about Vegeta's personality and actions (especially in Z) make him way more interesting as a character than any of the Humans (with the possible exception of Bulma). Same with Goku, Future Trunks, Gohan and a lesser extent Bardock (90's version) Caulifla and even Broly (both versions). Have you ever considered the possibly that the reason why Toriyama phased out the Human fighters (and stopped giving them much sceentime) merely because he saw them as inherently kinda uninteresting (particular Chichi & Tien who he made his distaste for known) and not because of power levels? Toriyama could have easily found ways to make them strong enough to keep them relevant (like he did with Piccolo until the Buu arc and A17 in the ToP) if he was so inclined, especially in the Buu saga which featured several powerups that aren't Saiyan based. So your arguments don't really work.
What I say is mostly just my perspective but I feel that saiyans are not as interesting as I used to see them but this is mostly because they feel like they are not unique in personality as it turns out that they take Goku's personality traits and turn them into a racial instinct. And they always rely on transformations (something that used to be rare). in the tournament of power, I felt somewhat disappointed that a large quantity of the focus went to Kale and Caulifla and they pretty much just did everything Goku and Vegeta (and Broly do) and pretty much felt that Goku and Vegeta were fighting some clones. It gets bad when Goku and Vegeta do everything and if it wasn't too Saiyan-centric enough, they felt the need to make a villain a purple replica of Vegeta. I feel that Vegeta is being too repetitive with his stuff and lately he just going through a loop, I think he needs more breaks and during those breaks have someone else take his place.

Human characters in the other hand have been left behind and their "character arcs" are left unfinished and not only that, they also have different abilities and personalities from each other and can do more than the saiyans who only care about being stronger or fighting strong people.The reason they are not as popular is mostly because the people behind them don't try to make them better. It is just like the "people who don't get hired because they don't have experience syndrome".
I couldn't edit it any further.

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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by zarmack » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:21 pm

Waluigiman wrote:
Waluigiman wrote:
zarmack wrote:
Literally everything about Vegeta's personality and actions (especially in Z) make him way more interesting as a character than any of the Humans (with the possible exception of Bulma). Same with Goku, Future Trunks, Gohan and a lesser extent Bardock (90's version) Caulifla and even Broly (both versions). Have you ever considered the possibly that the reason why Toriyama phased out the Human fighters (and stopped giving them much sceentime) merely because he saw them as inherently kinda uninteresting (particular Chichi & Tien who he made his distaste for known) and not because of power levels? Toriyama could have easily found ways to make them strong enough to keep them relevant (like he did with Piccolo until the Buu arc and A17 in the ToP) if he was so inclined, especially in the Buu saga which featured several powerups that aren't Saiyan based. So your arguments don't really work.
What I say is mostly just my perspective but I feel that saiyans are not as interesting as I used to see them but this is mostly because they feel like they are not unique in personality as it turns out that they take Goku's personality traits and turn them into a racial instinct. And they always rely on transformations (something that used to be rare). in the tournament of power, I felt somewhat disappointed that a large quantity of the focus went to Kale and Caulifla and they pretty much just did everything Goku and Vegeta (and Broly do) and pretty much felt that Goku and Vegeta were fighting some clones. It gets bad when Goku and Vegeta do everything and if it wasn't too Saiyan-centric enough, they felt the need to make a villain a purple replica of Vegeta. I feel that Vegeta is being too repetitive with his stuff and lately he just going through a loop, I think he needs more breaks and during those breaks have someone else take his place.

Human characters in the other hand have been left behind and their "character arcs" are left unfinished and not only that, they also have different abilities and personalities from each other and can do more than the saiyans who only care about being stronger or fighting strong people.The reason they are not as popular is mostly because the people behind them don't try to make them better. It is just like the "people who don't get hired because they don't have experience syndrome".
I couldn't edit it any further.
Krillin and Yamcha are mostly identical to each other in personality (the only difference is that Krillin treated less like a joke than Yamcha is), and Tien has essentially no personality after the 22nd arc. Roshi is the only unique Human fighter in terms of abilities and personality.

And how the hell is Kale personality wise anything like Goku & Vegeta? And speaking of which, Goku and Vegeta themselves are still world's apart in personality from each other and their kids.


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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by Waluigiman » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:37 pm

zarmack wrote:
Waluigiman wrote:
Waluigiman wrote: What I say is mostly just my perspective but I feel that saiyans are not as interesting as I used to see them but this is mostly because they feel like they are not unique in personality as it turns out that they take Goku's personality traits and turn them into a racial instinct. And they always rely on transformations (something that used to be rare). in the tournament of power, I felt somewhat disappointed that a large quantity of the focus went to Kale and Caulifla and they pretty much just did everything Goku and Vegeta (and Broly do) and pretty much felt that Goku and Vegeta were fighting some clones. It gets bad when Goku and Vegeta do everything and if it wasn't too Saiyan-centric enough, they felt the need to make a villain a purple replica of Vegeta. I feel that Vegeta is being too repetitive with his stuff and lately he just going through a loop, I think he needs more breaks and during those breaks have someone else take his place.

Human characters in the other hand have been left behind and their "character arcs" are left unfinished and not only that, they also have different abilities and personalities from each other and can do more than the saiyans who only care about being stronger or fighting strong people.The reason they are not as popular is mostly because the people behind them don't try to make them better. It is just like the "people who don't get hired because they don't have experience syndrome".
I couldn't edit it any further.
Krillin and Yamcha are mostly identical to each other in personality (the only difference is that Krillin treated less like a joke than Yamcha is), and Tien has essentially no personality after the 22nd arc. Roshi is the only unique Human fighter in terms of abilities and personality.

And how the hell is Kale personality wise anything like Goku & Vegeta? And speaking of which, Goku and Vegeta themselves are still world's apart in personality from each other and their kids.
Kale is just a female counterpart of Broly but that something they should fix. Think whatever you like because I am just explaining that there should be better utilization with non-Saiyan characters. My main point is that being too saiyan focus is that is like eating the same food over and over again, it needs more variety.

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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:26 pm

I doubt they'll ever revive Planet Vegeta. I feel the whole purpose from a story perspective for introducing a new planet of Saiyans was to expand on them. Plus, if they do revive Planet Vegeta, it would lose its impact on the overall story. And after years and years of hearing how it's destruction has affected characters in the story, to suddenly just bring it back would diminish everything about the Saiyan race we have thus far in Dragonball.

I'm okay with having other survivors. And with the current setup introduced in Broly, that's always a possibility. I do wish they would bring back some characters. Namely Raditz, as Goku having a brother would be a interesting turn of events had he actually played a significant role in the story outside of being the catalyst for Nappa and Vegeta to come to Earth

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Re: Planet Vegeta being wished back to life

Post by Hulk10 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:55 pm

I hope there are female survivors.
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