DB vs. DBZ vs. DBGT vs. DBS vs. SDBH: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each series. And which is the best imo?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: DB vs. DBZ vs. DBGT vs. DBS vs. SDBH: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each series. And which is the best I'

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:33 am

Tai Lung wrote:
sunsetshimmer wrote: No one except for Gohan and Videl got any development.
I could swear it was development that
-beerus, being someone who did not care about the mortal life, step to feel respect for the warriors of the U7.
-hit, being a solitary killer but had his facet of leader saving members of his team and supporting them to keep fighting for the good of the universe 6
-vegeta was in the role of teacher, father and a warrior without ceasing to be any
-roshi leaves the retreat when he sees his students always improving and learning from them.
-17 shows that changed by asking for the desire to return the universes
and I could continue but let's leave it like that
sunsetshimmer wrote: Broly got lipstick.
true as much as pikkon is piccolo, dr myuu is gero and lychee is Baby
but kale has objectives and motivations owns that separate it from broly, unlike the others
I was talking about old and main characters. Most of them didn't change at all to the point Goten and Trunks still look like 7yo boys.
Vegeta gave Cabba few advices and that's it. He wasn't a real teacher like Goku was to Uub. It's more like Cabba was obsessed with him calling him a mentor he never was.
I can agree with 17 even though he was never really evil and even in Z he already cared about nature.

Pikkon isn't Piccolo, Myuu isn't Gero and Lychee isn't Baby.
They barely have anything to do with characters you mentioned. Myuu was obvious reference to Gero and even worked with him, but he was completely different character. Completely different goals and personalities. He wasn't even a fighter.
But Kale is Broly. She looked exactly like Broly dressed as a woman. She had exactly the same behaviour, lines, movements and techniques. Of course i am talking about her anime version only. Not manga version that was better. That's not reference anymore. That's cheap and awful ripoff.
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Re: DB vs. DBZ vs. DBGT vs. DBS vs. SDBH: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each series. And which is the best I'm

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:32 pm

Dragon Ball:
Strengths - Great usage of the supporting cast, well timed and integrated comedy, a wonderfully expanded world, that feels rich, diverse and un-repetitive, the additional material in the anime is mostly good, Kikuchi's musical score and artwork in the manga is astonishing.

Weaknesses - The King Piccolo arc is not good at all and some terrible last few episodes in the anime

Dragon Ball Z:
Strengths - Everything about the Saiyan arc in both mediums, the first 1/3 of the Freeza arc, Mr Satan's character arc, Studio Cockpit's episodes, the animation adaptation of the Majin Boo arc, Kikuchi's musical score and the performances from the Japanese cast in the anime, with special mention to Ryō Horikawa, Ryūsei Nakao and Norio Wakamoto.

Weaknesses - Some awful filler (both in content and placement in the narrative), the mishandling of the supporting cast beyond the Saiyan arc, the Garlic Jr arc is abysmal, the Cell arc is thoroughly horrendous, the final 1/4 of the Majin Boo arc is terrible, artwork for most of the Majin Boo arc in the manga is poor and the ending of the Z feels somewhat unsatisfying.

Dragon Ball GT:
Strengths - Goku's characterisation, everything about SSJ4, the Baby arc in its entirety, the concept of the Shadow Dragons, Akihito Tokunaga fantastic musical score, provides some much needed closure for some of the supporting cast and the final episode.

Weaknesses - The Super 17 arc is the worst arc to ever exist in Dragon Ball, half of the Black Star Dragon Ball arc is bad, some generally boring episodes in between and during arcs and some of the comedy isn't handled well at all, and a lot of the character design are unappealing.

Dragon Ball Super:
Strengths - Has that distinct Toriyama charm when it comes to comedy or general storytelling in both mediums, some of the inconsequential episodes are the best in show, wonderful expansion on the Dragon Ball cosmos, mostly great new characters introduced, the debut and concept of Ultra Instinct, some of the best animation in all of Dragon Ball is scattered across the show and the manga is generally very good.

Weaknesses - Production issues plague 1/3 of the show, some elements of the Battle Of Gods retelling, the second half of the Resurrection F retelling is the dirt fucking worst, some elements of Copy Vegeta arc, the music is very bipolar, the story runs on "Rule Of Cool" to its detriment at times, and the show takes place during a period in Dragon Ball's overall narrative where it's impossible to create tension.

Super Dragon Ball Heroes:

Strengths - Not a goddamn thing.

Weaknesses - Everything.

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Re: DB vs. DBZ vs. DBGT vs. DBS vs. SDBH: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each series. And which is the best I'

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:38 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Tai Lung wrote:
sunsetshimmer wrote: No one except for Gohan and Videl got any development.
I could swear it was development that
-beerus, being someone who did not care about the mortal life, step to feel respect for the warriors of the U7.
-hit, being a solitary killer but had his facet of leader saving members of his team and supporting them to keep fighting for the good of the universe 6
-vegeta was in the role of teacher, father and a warrior without ceasing to be any
-roshi leaves the retreat when he sees his students always improving and learning from them.
-17 shows that changed by asking for the desire to return the universes
and I could continue but let's leave it like that
sunsetshimmer wrote: Broly got lipstick.
true as much as pikkon is piccolo, dr myuu is gero and lychee is Baby
but kale has objectives and motivations owns that separate it from broly, unlike the others
I was talking about old and main characters. Most of them didn't change at all to the point Goten and Trunks still look like 7yo boys.
Vegeta gave Cabba few advices and that's it. He wasn't a real teacher like Goku was to Uub. It's more like Cabba was obsessed with him calling him a mentor he never was.
I can agree with 17 even though he was never really evil and even in Z he already cared about nature.

Pikkon isn't Piccolo, Myuu isn't Gero and Lychee isn't Baby.
They barely have anything to do with characters you mentioned. Myuu was obvious reference to Gero and even worked with him, but he was completely different character. Completely different goals and personalities. He wasn't even a fighter.
But Kale is Broly. She looked exactly like Broly dressed as a woman. She had exactly the same behaviour, lines, movements and techniques. Of course i am talking about her anime version only. Not manga version that was better. That's not reference anymore. That's cheap and awful ripoff.
I teach him to transform into ssj besides that it was his proud personality and his power that imfluencio in him to improve as a warrior and always try to overcome what speaks well of vegeta since now he is much more sociable than before when he only cared about or the family but now has interest in relating to other saiyans which shows much of their evolution since before raditz or nappa did not care
you have krillin having a job of police and abandoned retirement after leaving it when he married.
with goten and trunks I can agree but taking into account that in the epilogue of z they are dedicated to have a more peaceful life is not that there is much to change there
with goku and uub never saw anything of the training or that it taught him something simply had already finished his training, unlike goku and gohan in cell arc, until with caulifla it was seen that he learned very much in his fight with goku.
he cared about nature in z but taking into account that at 18 and 17, did not care about human life which is seen when he vegeta and 18 cause the death of several people in his fight on the road, that asks to return the life of strange universes that it has nothing to do with universe 7, because if it is a great advance, that is, if I say that I form a family

all are just references and does not change the point.
kale is a girl who starts weak but wants to be stronger because she hates being a burden for others and her sister caulifla has a great sense of loyalty given that when caulifla could not fight with goku, not leave her, to she go to fight alone It shows to comfiar in more people at the time of supporting saonel and pirina that are members of their team. none of that has broly ..
The manga kale has no development.
all the others Pikkon, Myuu, Baby.son cheap and awful ripoff so ...
Myuu is a villain who looks like gero, has ambitions of domination in addition to using machines to achieve it, his creations ends up betraying is the same

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Re: DB vs. DBZ vs. DBGT vs. DBS vs. SDBH: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each series. And which is the best I'

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:10 pm

Tai Lung wrote: Myuu is a villain who looks like gero, has ambitions of domination in addition to using machines to achieve it, his creations ends up betraying is the same
Gero seeked revenge. Myuu didn't care about it and betrayed him. He wanted to turn everyone in universe into machine-mutants. That's nothing like Gero tbh.
And Myuu wasn't betrayed by his creations. Super 17 attacked him because he still had original #17 inside of him who was only Gero's creation.
Hell Fighter 17 never did anything against him. The same goes for Rildo. Gero was only respected by #19 who was 100% machine.
And Baby wasn't his creation so...

He has nothing to do with Gero except for design. Meanwhile Kale was direct ripoff. Her techniques and lines were directly ripped from Broly movies. She even turned into brainless monster that keeps saying "Son Goku".
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Re: DB vs. DBZ vs. DBGT vs. DBS vs. SDBH: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each series. And which is the best I'

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:46 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Tai Lung wrote: Myuu is a villain who looks like gero, has ambitions of domination in addition to using machines to achieve it, his creations ends up betraying is the same
Gero seeked revenge. Myuu didn't care about it and betrayed him. He wanted to turn everyone in universe into machine-mutants. That's nothing like Gero tbh.
And Myuu wasn't betrayed by his creations. Super 17 attacked him because he still had original #17 inside of him who was only Gero's creation.
Hell Fighter 17 never did anything against him. The same goes for Rildo. Gero was only respected by #19 who was 100% machine.
And Baby wasn't his creation so...

He has nothing to do with Gero except for design. Meanwhile Kale was direct ripoff. Her techniques and lines were directly ripped from Broly movies. She even turned into brainless monster that keeps saying "Son Goku".
and then kale starts to control his power without losing control something that broly never did
gero sought revenge but also the world domination, while myuu sought to dominate the galaxy.
as such baby is genetically created parasite-like organisms, which they infused with the DNA of the Tuffle King that experiment could not be created only so myuu had to have supervised it but in any case giru was myuu's creation and he betrayed it then .. .

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Re: DB vs. DBZ vs. DBGT vs. DBS vs. SDBH: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each series. And which is the best I'

Post by majinwarman » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:52 am

Lord Beerus wrote:Dragon Ball:
Strengths - Great usage of the supporting cast, well timed and integrated comedy, a wonderfully expanded world, that feels rich, diverse and un-repetitive, the additional material in the anime is mostly good, Kikuchi's musical score and artwork in the manga is astonishing.

Weaknesses - The King Piccolo arc is not good at all and some terrible last few episodes in the anime

Dragon Ball Z:
Strengths - Everything about the Saiyan arc in both mediums, the first 1/3 of the Freeza arc, Mr Satan's character arc, Studio Cockpit's episodes, the animation adaptation of the Majin Boo arc, Kikuchi's musical score and the performances from the Japanese cast in the anime, with special mention to Ryō Horikawa, Ryūsei Nakao and Norio Wakamoto.

Weaknesses - Some awful filler (both in content and placement in the narrative), the mishandling of the supporting cast beyond the Saiyan arc, the Garlic Jr arc is abysmal, the Cell arc is thoroughly horrendous, the final 1/4 of the Majin Boo arc is terrible, artwork for most of the Majin Boo arc in the manga is poor and the ending of the Z feels somewhat unsatisfying.

Dragon Ball GT:
Strengths - Goku's characterisation, everything about SSJ4, the Baby arc in its entirety, the concept of the Shadow Dragons, Akihito Tokunaga fantastic musical score, provides some much needed closure for some of the supporting cast and the final episode.

Weaknesses - The Super 17 arc is the worst arc to ever exist in Dragon Ball, half of the Black Star Dragon Ball arc is bad, some generally boring episodes in between and during arcs and some of the comedy isn't handled well at all, and a lot of the character design are unappealing.

Dragon Ball Super:
Strengths - Has that distinct Toriyama charm when it comes to comedy or general storytelling in both mediums, some of the inconsequential episodes are the best in show, wonderful expansion on the Dragon Ball cosmos, mostly great new characters introduced, the debut and concept of Ultra Instinct, some of the best animation in all of Dragon Ball is scattered across the show and the manga is generally very good.

Weaknesses - Production issues plague 1/3 of the show, some elements of the Battle Of Gods retelling, the second half of the Resurrection F retelling is the dirt fucking worst, some elements of Copy Vegeta arc, the music is very bipolar, the story runs on "Rule Of Cool" to its detriment at times, and the show takes place during a period in Dragon Ball's overall narrative where it's impossible to create tension.

Super Dragon Ball Heroes:

Strengths - Not a goddamn thing.

Weaknesses - Everything.
I don't even consider Super Dragon Ball Heroes as true Dragon Ball series for me to analyze.
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Re: DB vs. DBZ vs. DBGT vs. DBS vs. SDBH: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each series. And which is the best I'

Post by supersaiyanZero » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:31 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: and the show takes place during a period in Dragon Ball's overall narrative where it's impossible to create tension.
I've been seeing this for a while, and it's simply not true. There are plenty of prequels/midquels across every medium that do a great job of creating tension. It's simply up to the craft of storytelling. Even within the franchise, the original Bardock special did a good job of telling a story about the Saiyan's demise even though you knew at the end Frieza was going to kill him and destroy the planet. It's all up to storyteller to draw you in and make you give a shit about what's happening now even though you know how things are going to turn out.

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Re: DB vs. DBZ vs. DBGT vs. DBS vs. SDBH: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each series. And which is the best I'm

Post by PremiumSalt » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:35 pm

Dragon Ball
Strengths:
-The sense of fun and adventure, which I feel has largely disappeared from the series.
-Easily the best choreographed fights. There's more to them than beam struggles and dashing around throwing punches and kicks too fast to see.
-The comedy, aside from some of the more perverted jokes.
-I tend to prefer the artstyle from this "era".
-Some great characters in this series that never appear in others, such as Tsurusen'nin or Tao Pai Pai (outside of filler).
-Speaking of characters, the cast is far more well utilized here than in later series.
-The 22nd Tenkaichi Budōkai, The Piccolo Daimao Arc, and the 23rd Tenkaichi Budōkai are the peak of the franchise for me.

Weaknesses:
-I find parts of the Red Ribbon Army Arc a bit of a chore to sit through, in particular Muscle Tower.
-As previously mentioned, I find some of the more perverted humor to be a tad....dated. And not in a good way.

Overall Rating: 9.5/10

Dragon Ball Z
Strengths
-Vegeta and Freeza are both fantastic villains, in fact Freeza may be my favorite villain in the franchise, tied with Zamasu.
-Fat Boo and Mr. Satan are both a lot of fun, imo.
-Vegeta has probably the most well written character arc in the franchise, and Piccolo's development is pretty good as well.
-While not as good as the final three arcs of Dragon Ball, which as mentioned previously are tied for my favorite arc, the Saiyan arc is squarely in my #2 spot.
-While I find the "epicness" of this era somewhat superficial at times, there are a lot of great, iconic moments. Gokū going Super Saiyan for the first time, Trunks killing Freeza, Gohan going Super Saiyan 2, the list goes on.

Weaknesses:
-The pacing. Ohhhh boy the pacing. The pacing of the original Z anime is abysmal, period, end of discussion. And while Kai certainly alleviates this, it has it's own unique problems.
-This is the beginning of the mindless beam struggle fights and dashing around throwing punches and kicks too fast to see. While it's entertaining in short bursts, they typically go on way too long.
-Many characters are poorly utilized here.
-The Cell arc, and to a lesser extent the Boo arc, are an absolute mess plot wise.

Overall Rating: 6/10 for the original Z anime, 8/10 for Kai

Dragon Ball GT
Strengths:
-I certainly appreciate the attempt at recapturing the feel of early Dragon Ball with the Black Star Dragon Ball Arc.
-Pan's character design is pretty good, as is Trunks'.
-There are some pretty good ideas.
-Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku is great. Wish it was the OP for a better series.

Weaknesses:
-While as I said there are plenty of good ideas, they are almost never executed well.
-The attempt at recapturing the feel of early Dragon Ball with the Black Star Dragon Ball Arc falls completely flat, as someone who loves early Dragon Ball.
-Why, oh why, did they turn Gokū into a kid again? I love Kid Gokū as much as the next guy, but it just feels so wrong after seeing him grow up and develop (well, I use the term "develop" loosely, this is Gokū after all).
-It's kind of a dead horse at this point, but GT is often called "Gokū Time" for a reason.
-Super 17 arc is horrid.
-In spite of being only 64 episodes, it is an absolute chore. By far the most boring Dragon Ball product ever produced.
-The art is gross.
-I find the attempt at a bittersweet ending insulting and unearned.

Overall Rating: 1/10

Dragon Ball Super
Strengths:
-The humor makes a welcome return here.
-Beerus and Whis are a great addition to the cast.
-The Zamasu arc is probably in my number 3 spot for arc ranking, after the three way tie of 22nd Budōkai--Piccolo Daimao--23rd Budōkai in first and the Saiyan Arc in second.
-The Universe 6 cast are all great, especially Hit.
-Zamasu is tied with Freeza for my favorite villain in the franchise.
-The Tournament of Power, while largely just spectacle, is superbly entertaining.

Weaknesses:
-The animation in early episodes is...not great to say the least.
-The movie retellings drag too long.
-The Resurrection "F" storyline is pretty lame in both mediums.

Overall Rating: 9/10

Super Dragon Ball Heroes

I refuse to dignify that series with an analysis. It's an extended commercial for the Heroes game, with a nonsensical plot.

Overall Rating: -10/10 (And I'm being generous)

My personal favorite of the series is Dragon Ball.
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Dragon Ball Arc Rankings: 1. Piccolo Daimaō 2. Saiyan 3. 22nd Budōkai 4. 23rd Budōkai 5. Hunt For the Dragon Balls 6. Zamasu 7. Tournament of Power 8. 21st Budōkai 9. Broly 10. Battle of Gods 11. Boo 12. U6 Tournament 13. Freeza 14. Red Ribbon Army 15. Artificial Humans/Cell 16.Golden Freeza

Star Wars Rankings: 1. ROTS 2. TLJ 3. RO 4. TESB 5. ROTJ 6. ANH 7. TFA 8. SOLO 9. TPM 10. AOTC

DCEU Rankings: 1. WW 2. AQM 3. BVS 4. JL 5. MOS 6. SS
Kunzait_83 wrote:No matter what twisted pretzel logic you contort yourself into to try and convince yourself otherwise, Raditz landing on Earth is the middle of the fucking story. Zero context, zero setup. Its in NO way meant to be seen as a "beginning point" for ANYTHING other than the next story arc. It flows precisely and fluidly from where things left off in the aftermath of the 23rd Budokai and mostly hits the ground running from there without really stopping to look back. You're plopping someone into the middle of a book starting at chapter 195 out of 519 for absolutely no good goddamn reason, with very minimal opportunity to look back at much needed context and character/story growth.

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Re: DB vs. DBZ vs. DBGT vs. DBS vs. SDBH: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each series. And which is the best I'm

Post by zarmack » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:06 am

Z/Kai > Early DB > DBS Anime > GT > DBS Manga

Early DB
+ Lots of charm
+ Best fight choreography (on average)
+ Least repetitive storytelling
+ Great supporting cast (outside of combat)
+ Funniest DB series

- Bad filler
- Worst art design (on average)
- Relatively useless supporting cast
- The Hunt for DB & RRA arcs are mostly forgettable

Dragonball Z/Kai
+ Most epic and iconic moments out of all 4 shows
+ Best characterization/development for nearly every major character. Goku as a character is at his best here, Vegeta here is the best written character in the whole franchise (with Future Trunks at 2nd place), Freeza here is the series's greatest antagonist, etc.
+ Most cathartic and intense fights .
+ Best art and character design (on average), especially after Namek arc.
+ Has the most substance out of all 4 series
+ The Saiyan and Namek arcs are the peak of the franchise.

- Worst pacing (Z mainly), it was called "Drag-on Ball" for a reason
- Worst filler (on average)
- Fights start to become less creative
- Supporting cast (aside from Bulma) become even more useless. If you weren't a Saiyan or Piccolo you didn't matter.
- Storytelling in the franchise declines since the Android arc and never fully recovers.
- Worst finale out of all 4 series

Dragonball GT
+ Most consistent animation
+ Most creative ideas and concepts
+ SSJ4 is the best designed transformation in the franchise
+ Baby is an underrated villain.
+ Best finale out of all for series
+ Most willing to take risk with the series
+ GT Goten is an underrated character

- Worst fights out of all 4 series
- It called "Goku Time" for a reason, if you weren't Goku you didn't matter.
- Making Goku a kid again was a stupid idea and took away much of what made him appealing in Z.
- Medicore to bad execution on nearly all of its ideas (except Baby and SSJ4)
- The Black Star arc is possibly the worst one in the franchise.
- Most boring of all 4 series.
- GT Pan is the worst major cast member in the series.

Dragonball Super (mainly the anime version)
+ Features some of the best pieces of animation in the franchise.
+ Better utilized supporting cast (on average).
+ Introduces many likable new characters.
+ The final 2 arcs feature some of franchises greatest fights.
+ Goku Black/Zamasu rivals Freeza as the franchise's greatest villain.
+ UI Omen rivals SSJ1 and SSJ4 as the best transformation in the franchise.

- Least consistent animation and art design.
- General lack of tension and stakes.
- Has the most missed opportunities with its storylines and characters.
- Least creative and original out of all 4 shows.
- Its 1st 2 arcs are worse remakes of 2 movies.
- Worst powerscaling (on average).

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Re: DB vs. DBZ vs. DBGT vs. DBS vs. SDBH: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each series. And which is the best I'm

Post by IM21 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:09 am

this is pretty short. I could have written a really long article about every single thing that i like or dislike in all this shows, but I just don't have the will in me.


Dragon Ball

good
- great fighting choreography, especially in the tournaments.
- pretty much all the characters get to shine.
- funny
- inappropriate material... I just like it when SJW cry about it. In the world we are living right now everything needs to be politically correct and I am not a fan of this bs.

bad
- RR army stuff dragged a little too much.

overall - 9/10

DBZ

good
- most of the new characters (Vegeta, Frieza, Future Trunks)
- the first time Goku transfomed
- fusions
- it was very mature

bad
- filler ( Garlic Jr saga, ugh...)
- only the Saiyans became important
- Buu saga started to become pretty boring

overall - 8.5/10

GT

good
- the intro song
- ending
- SSJ4 looks

bad
- turning Goku into a kid
- boring first 30 episodes
- short 17 saga

overall - 5/10

Super

good
- most of the stuff in the Goku black arc
- ep 130 and 131

bad
- retelling the movies (especially RoF)
- too many transformations

overall - 5.5/10

Heroes

good
- nothing

bad
- everything

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Re: DB vs. DBZ vs. DBGT vs. DBS vs. SDBH: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each series. And which is the best I'

Post by ruler9871 » Sat May 11, 2019 2:07 pm

zarmack wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:06 am
Z/Kai > Early DB > DBS Anime > GT > DBS Manga

Early DB
+ Lots of charm
+ Best fight choreography (on average)
+ Least repetitive storytelling
+ Great supporting cast (outside of combat)
+ Funniest DB series

- Bad filler
- Worst art design (on average)
- Relatively useless supporting cast
- The Hunt for DB & RRA arcs are mostly forgettable

Dragonball Z/Kai
+ Most epic and iconic moments out of all 4 shows
+ Best characterization/development for nearly every major character. Goku as a character is at his best here, Vegeta here is the best written character in the whole franchise (with Future Trunks at 2nd place), Freeza here is the series's greatest antagonist, etc.
+ Most cathartic and intense fights .
+ Best art and character design (on average), especially after Namek arc.
+ Has the most substance out of all 4 series
+ The Saiyan and Namek arcs are the peak of the franchise.

- Worst pacing (Z mainly), it was called "Drag-on Ball" for a reason
- Worst filler (on average)
- Fights start to become less creative
- Supporting cast (aside from Bulma) become even more useless. If you weren't a Saiyan or Piccolo you didn't matter.
- Storytelling in the franchise declines since the Android arc and never fully recovers.
- Worst finale out of all 4 series

Dragonball GT
+ Most consistent animation
+ Most creative ideas and concepts
+ SSJ4 is the best designed transformation in the franchise
+ Baby is an underrated villain.
+ Best finale out of all for series
+ Most willing to take risk with the series
+ GT Goten is an underrated character

- Worst fights out of all 4 series
- It called "Goku Time" for a reason, if you weren't Goku you didn't matter.
- Making Goku a kid again was a stupid idea and took away much of what made him appealing in Z.
- Medicore to bad execution on nearly all of its ideas (except Baby and SSJ4)
- The Black Star arc is possibly the worst one in the franchise.
- Most boring of all 4 series.
- GT Pan is the worst major cast member in the series.

Dragonball Super (mainly the anime version)
+ Features some of the best pieces of animation in the franchise.
+ Better utilized supporting cast (on average).
+ Introduces many likable new characters.
+ The final 2 arcs feature some of franchises greatest fights.
+ Goku Black/Zamasu rivals Freeza as the franchise's greatest villain.
+ UI Omen rivals SSJ1 and SSJ4 as the best transformation in the franchise.

- Least consistent animation and art design.
- General lack of tension and stakes.
- Has the most missed opportunities with its storylines and characters.
- Least creative and original out of all 4 shows.
- Its 1st 2 arcs are worse remakes of 2 movies.
- Worst powerscaling (on average).
This is pretty accurate for the most part, except for Super having better use of the Supporting cast compared to Early DB & Z.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: DB vs. DBZ vs. DBGT vs. DBS vs. SDBH: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each series. And which is the best I'm

Post by Rakurai » Sun May 12, 2019 9:08 am

Seriously, people judging SDBH here based on the promo anime? What a load of rubbish. At the very least y'all should use the better of the two, which is the manga. The manga also features two concurrent story arcs like the arcade, one with the DBS cast and one with the Time Patrol cast. Prison Planet/Universal Conflict arc is not the only story SDBH has to offer (though it's still better than anything DBS has dished out.)

--

Dragon Ball:
+ Adventurous
+ A true progression of the life of Son Goku, and his relationships
+ Amazing technical battles
+ Mild fanservice
+ Balanced combination of adventure & tournament story arcs
+ Great music for the anime

- Recurring villains became dull and repetitive, often reduced to gag status
- Some gags extremely distasteful, like making Invisible Man visible by using Roshi's blood via him seeing Bulma's tits
- How Goku got fucking married to Chi-chi

DBZ:
+ Tension
+ Some of the best emotional moments
+ Super Saiyan
+ Expansion of the universe lore
+ A true mature Son Goku
+ Bardock: Father of Goku & History of Trunks
+ Some great filler for the anime
+ Great music for anime
+ Some of the best choreography for the anime

- Plot arcs connected haphazardly
- Began the good vs. evil trope, with the most evil villains remaining one-dimensionally evil
- Too much emphasis on planetary busting
- DBs became so easy to acquire and to revive people, death as a dramatic point essentially became irrelevant

DBGT:
+ Further expansion of the universe
+ Perhaps the most tension and dramatic resolution out of any series with the Baby arc
+ Goku, Trunks, and Pan dynamic
+ Super Saiyan 4
+ Mature and easygoing Vegeta
+ Emotional moments, perfect ending
+ Great music
+ Consistent animation

- Not much battle choreography, which is probably the worst for a show like DB
- Lack of use of the rest of the cast besides Goku and Pan
- Black star dragon search cut too short in favor of classic good vs. evil beat-em-up
- Super 17 arc too short

DBS:

+ Further expansion of the universe
+ Natural progression of Super Saiyan Blue in the manga
+ Goku Black
+ Hakai Goku
+ First female Super Saiyans, also manga Kale rocks
+ Some of the funniest filler in the anime
+ Broly (though he isn't better than Z Broly imo)

- Worst retellings of two films in the anime
- Rapist Roshi gag
- Plot arcs connected randomly
- Tournament arc trope
- Plastic af animation/artwork for the anime
- Highly inconsistent powerscaling in the anime
- Bringing back old characters whose stories should've been finished like Freeza and FTrunks
- FTrunks x Mai shipping, disgusting
- Horrible pacing in the ToP in the anime, essentially leading to villain of the week type of show
- Many character designs are bland
- Waste of Ultra Instinct as a technique to be mastered thereafter in the manga

SDBH:

+ Further expansion of the universe
+ Bold and creative use of franchise concepts
+ Interesting villains
+ Great use of fanservice
+ More Saiyans like Cumber
+ Demon gods
+ Time Patrol
+ Demon god vs. Time Patrol struggle - best story arc out of the two
+ Roberu
+ Continuous use of Ultra Instinct and SSJ4
+ Manga by Nagayama
+ Good music in the anime

- Anime by Toei
- Exploration of other universes but nothing new about them
- Not a lot of detail or exposition for each arc as there should be


Overall for me: DBZ > SDBH > GT ~ OG DB (only because I prefer much rather villains and universal exploration from GT) > DBS manga > DBS anime

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Re: DB vs. DBZ vs. DBGT vs. DBS vs. SDBH: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each series. And which is the best I'm

Post by Rakurai » Sun May 12, 2019 12:04 pm

DBS:

+ Further expansion of the universe
+ Natural progression of Super Saiyan Blue in the manga
+ Goku Black
+ Hakai Goku
+ First female Super Saiyans, also anime Caulifla and manga Kale rock
+ Some of the funniest filler in the anime
+ Broly (though he isn't better than Z Broly imo)

- Worst retellings of two films in the anime
- More random recolors for transformations
- Rapist Roshi gag
- Plot arcs connected randomly
- Tournament arc trope
- Plastic af animation/artwork for the anime
- Highly inconsistent powerscaling in the anime
- Bringing back old characters whose stories should've been finished like Freeza and FTrunks
- FTrunks x Mai shipping, disgusting
- Horrible pacing in the ToP in the anime, essentially leading to villain of the week type of show
- Many character designs are bland
- Waste of Ultra Instinct as a technique to be mastered thereafter in the manga
How could I forget one of the worst things to have come out of modern DB. Also anime Caulifla is awesome.

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Re: DB vs. DBZ vs. DBGT vs. DBS vs. SDBH: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each series. And which is the best I'm

Post by anubisj » Sun May 12, 2019 3:34 pm

I have to say I agree with mostly everything that Rakurai said :) , talking about anime I would say:

DB:

+: Creativity, amazing progression of the characters, some interesting fights, sense of wonder and adventure.

-: Too much gag and low tension on the first few sagas, some cliché and not quite interesting villains.

I think Dragon Ball was "finding itself" with this first series, and it shows sometimes, as it progresses it gets darker, but the blend between humor and seriousness of the first sagas is nice at times. I actually did like all the Goku x Chi Chi stuff. As for the evolution of the series itself, it is amazing how it grows in quality over time, out of all the dragon ball series, this one improves the most over time.

DBZ:

+: Captures the essence of dragon ball battles and saving the world perfectly, impressive designs and characters, even more creativity than in DB, the battles are the best of the franchise, and some are bloody (as they should be), it adds the iconic super saiyan transformations and makes great use of the supporting characters. It also gets progressively lighter in tone, which sometimes works and sometimes it doesn´t. Adds great new concepts.

-: I kind of agree with " Began the good vs. evil trope, with the most evil villains remaining one-dimensionally evil" but I don´t really think that´s bad per se, I do think however that the overuse of dragon balls damaged the show´s quality a bit. I also think there is less sense of adventure (which is not really good after a while), and less drama towards the end of it.

DBZ is my favorite out of all series, without a doubt. The execution is perfect.

DBGT:

+: Nice new concepts and ideas, and a good way to round up the story, coming full circle. It gets darker progressively, but starts with a tone akin to original DB, which is a beautiful concept. Some impressive designs and fights, careful use of transformations, new developments for some of the supporting characters (like the new dynamic between Trunks, Pan and Goku that Rakurai mentioned), worthy ending to the anime trilogy.

-: Lack of drama at the beginning, plenty of characters are not used as much as I would have liked (Yamcha and Tien on the baby saga come to mind), too few episodes, some unnecessary padding, continued use of Dragon Ball tropes for the most part (but with less astonishing battles to pay off, though it did have some).

I find the anime trilogy extremely gratifying to watch, I love how DB starts on earth and DBGT takes us to space, I love how Goku turns young again (it was certainly a bold move); we die as we are born, with that sweet ingenuity taking us over again.

DBS:

+: Some new interesting concepts like Ultra instinct, some nice fights, a lot of tension and high stakes, cool stuff like SSJ God and Hit, new animations effects, people like Piccolo or Gohan participating and having their moment to shine (sort of), a few nice designs.

-: Movie retellings are a bit of a negative, also there´s Roshi above Yamcha and possibly Tien, and participating in the TOP, Yamcha is probably worse than Chiaotzu at this point, overuse of transformations, brutal overuse of Frieza, an entire new saga dedicated to him, a lot of unnecessary padding, trivializing some characters and situations far more than GT ever did, and So, so much this: - Bringing back old characters whose stories should've been finished like Freeza and FTrunks
- FTrunks x Mai shipping, disgusting
- Horrible pacing in the ToP in the anime, essentially leading to villain of the week type of show
- Many character designs are bland. (or are recolored from previous series, like Vegito blue or golden frieza).

I hope you don´t mind me stealing your ideas Rakurai :lol:
Also, retconning things established previously (such as potara not being permanent), also the use of "saiyans" from universe 6 (they don´t have tails wtf) unfortunately, in that I don´t agree with you, I dislike Kale and Caulifla, even though I was desperately looking forward to more female saiyans. The TOP had some extremely weak fighters, relying on old stuff and not being bold creatively (except to put saiyans with guns...that was honestly really lame to me for some reason).

Anyways, I think Super suffers from the "modern anime" syndrome, it slowly loses what made Dragon Ball magical to be more conventional and "fan servicey".

DBH:

+: Great new concepts and designs, entertaining fights, demon stuff, surprisingly amazing story concepts, new modern animation effects.

-: Lack of story focus, things happen too fast, the whole concept of DBH is kinda a handicap imo, too few episodes and story material, and some of it doesn´t make sense or seems too contrived, reuse of old stuff like Zamasu or Top instead of new things, sometimes. Too difficult to access for western audiences.

DBH has potential, let´s see how it develops, i wished they took themselves more seriously.

Overall, for me, it would be like this: DBZ > DBGT > DB (gt and original db are basically equal, though), DBS >DBH.

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Re: DB vs. DBZ vs. DBGT vs. DBS vs. SDBH: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each series. And which is the best I'

Post by Rakurai » Sun May 12, 2019 8:35 pm

anubisj wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 3:34 pm
I hope you don´t mind me stealing your ideas Rakurai :lol:
I don't mind, pros and cons lists will overlap in some ways among many fans.

I forgot to mention another thing, I also did like Ultra Instinct from DBS, though as a technique and not a transformation. The Ultra Instinct used by both Whis and Beerus is the one I prefer as opposed to Omen or white hair (which are totally unnecessary).

The all-out battle between the GoDs in the manga was so great. It gave each more variety and personality, and I really enjoyed that. Anime gave us a peek into other universes which was also great but all the GoDs felt the same in terms of combat.

As for Universe 6 Saiyans, the manga did Caulifla's gang (group of female thieves for themselves and orphans) better than the anime (bike greasers with knives, really?). I do like the idea of Caulifla having a brother in the army, like the rebellious sister who fell out of the family hierarchy or something.

Tails should've definitely been brought back, it was one of the most unique traits about Saiyans and now they just feel like superhumans instead of actual aliens.

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Re: DB vs. DBZ vs. DBGT vs. DBS vs. SDBH: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each series. And which is the best I'm

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Sun May 12, 2019 11:14 pm

Dragon Ball
+ Love the cast of characters. Everyone's unique and their interactions make for some very funny scenes.
+ Tons of martial arts action and each tournament is enjoyable to watch.
+ Has the most adventure out of any of the series.
- The first arc is kind of a chore to get through.
- Too much perverted humour that doesn't come off as funny.

Dragon Ball Z
+ Memorable villains are introduced.
+ The sense of scale for both the battles and the stakes are dramatically increased.
+ Other worlds and planets are explored.
+ Has some of the most unforgettable and inspiring scenes.
- Loses a lot of the adventure aspect that the last series had.
- A bunch of characters featured in the last series are thrown to the side.
- It fuckin draaaaags in places. BUT...

Dragon Ball Z Kai
+ This is my go-to version of the show and solves that previous problem.

Dragon Ball GT
+ I like the opening and endings. Some of my favourite music in the franchise.
+ Super Saiyan 4 looks cool.
- Lacklustre action.
- Boring villains.
- Turning Goku into a child was completely unnecessary.
- You've probably heard this a million times but that's only because it's true: It has good ideas but very poor execution.

Dragon Ball Super
+ Lots of new characters, gods and universes are introduced and explored.
+ Recaptures the exciting action that Dragon Ball is well-known for.
+ The funniest series out of all of them.
+ Has some great antagonists. Goku Black is fantastic.
- The retelling arcs feel unnecessary.
- Has a lot of production issues and results in episodes with poor animation.
- Lacks a direction and can be seen with characters like Gohan.
- The glossy character designs do the show no favours, though Super: Broly has now fixed that.

Super Dragon Ball Heroes
+ Uhhhh... I like the music?
- I think what frustrates me the most is that stuff like Goku training with the Grand Priest should be saved for the Super anime. Showing it off in a promo anime of all things feels like they're blowing their load way too early.
- The animation is stiff as fuck and the fights somehow manage to be less engaging than GT's battles.
- I swear I try to pay attention during these episodes but I could not tell you what the hell the story is about.
- They stole the name of my Saiyan Xenoverse OC. Cumber is my character. I demand royalties, Shueisha.

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