Between Goku, Vegeta & Gohan Who Do You Think Has Received The Most Amount Of Undeserved Power-Ups/Transformations?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Between Goku, Vegeta & Gohan Who Do You Think Has Received The Most Amount Of Undeserved Power-Ups/Transformations?

Post by Tai Lung » Mon May 20, 2019 12:50 am

the ssj god may be a "convenient" ritual but that was supposed to be only temporary and to get that power through training with whis.
I do not see it so undeserved really anyone could have made it vegeta, gohan or goten and equally they would have lost it.

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Re: Between Goku, Vegeta & Gohan Who Do You Think Has Received The Most Amount Of Undeserved Power-Ups/Transformations?

Post by Lionel » Mon May 20, 2019 5:29 am

Maybe the Elder Kaioshin unlock should have entailed some kind of internal trial process where the person has to perform some kind of rigourous activity for quite a bit of time while their body remains stationary throughout. Alternatively, how about mentally amplifying the amount of time that was spent sitting like that in a sort of internalised reversal experience of the ROSAT? Do you know the kind of health complications that come with sitting in one place for too long? If Gohan came out of the ritual stronger but with muscular degeneration, bone atrophication, and less cognitive ability wrapped up as part of the package through some kind of psychic transference of the chrono-mental elapse to the body then would that really seem like an undeserved power-up to anyone?

Forgot about Krillin's potential unlock. His power went from 1770 to 75,000 within the span of hours, didn't it? The only Z-fighters who haven't had a potential unlock have been the humans outside of Krillin and the Saiyan hybrids past Gohan. Piccolo's fusion escapades present their own comparable example of someone receiving a dubious power-up with no sacrifice entailed. Well, no physical sacrifice that is unless you want to count the total loss of autonomous being for whoever is being assimilated.

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Re: Between Goku, Vegeta & Gohan Who Do You Think Has Received The Most Amount Of Undeserved Power-Ups/Transformations?

Post by Thani » Wed May 22, 2019 2:49 pm

Definitely Gohan and Vegeta. Unlocking SSj offscreen is already egregious, and then Ultimate, although awesome, was gained by simply sitting around and amounted to nothing in the plot itself. SSBE is completely undeserved both in the manga and the anime, Vegeta achieved it by basically whining.

Goku is a good example as well, with SSj2 and 3 being unlocked offscreen and, in the case of 3, with no foreshadowing whatsoever. I still think it's not as bad as the other two, because his SSj transformation was deserved and both forms are just powered up versions of it.

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Re: Between Goku, Vegeta & Gohan Who Do You Think Has Received The Most Amount Of Undeserved Power-Ups/Transformations?

Post by VegettoEX » Wed May 22, 2019 4:29 pm

Who says foreshadowing has to be necessary for it to be "good" (if that's what you're implying here?)? There are no set guidelines like that. Just because the original Super Saiyan was "foreshadowed" (more like directly telegraphed) doesn't mean everything else has to be or should be.

Super Saiyan 3 makes total sense to me for where Goku is at in his life (err... death?) at that point in the story, and especially as opposed to Vegeta who took a totally different mental route for strength and ultimately concedes to Goku's "number one"-ness following all of it.

I disagree with the entire basic premise/question of the original post, really.
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Re: Between Goku, Vegeta & Gohan Who Do You Think Has Received The Most Amount Of Undeserved Power-Ups/Transformations?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Tue May 28, 2019 1:58 am

The ritual to unlock Gohan's power was a mental trial, not a physical one.

He'd wasted 7 years, and now he's unable to help his friends who are getting murdered by Buu. He wants to help, but he can't. He has to restrain himself from rushing to his friends' aid for an entire day. It's his "reward" for wasting all that time; yeah, he'll get stronger, but by the time he's able to help, all his friends and family are dead.
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Re: Between Goku, Vegeta & Gohan Who Do You Think Has Received The Most Amount Of Undeserved Power-Ups/Transformations?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue May 28, 2019 10:35 am

Nokra wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:52 pm
I'm going to go with Gohan. The Ultimate form was a giant asspull just to make him power relevant again
How is it any different than Goku drinking the water in the Piccolo Daimou saga? It wasn’t an asspull to make him power relevant again. It was just a red herring to make the reader/viewer think Gohan is going to be the one to defeat Buu. It’s no different than when Vegeta became stronger than Semi Perfect Cell and then got his ass stomped by Perfect Cell.
(and also makes no sense considering Guru already brought out his potential on Namek).
His potential at the time. Otherwise Gohan would have became irrelevant and useless since that potential didn’t do squat against the Ginyu Force. You didn’t seriously think he didn’t get any stronger after Guru’s upgrade? Same with Kurilin.

And SS2, while it was an epic transformation, the way he obtained it makes little sense. Gohan barely even knew Android 16 yet it was his death which somehow triggered Gohan to ascend to SS2 and not his friends being beat up by the Cell Jrs?!
Gohan values life. Someone was murdered right in front of him. Don’t think the intention was to establish some deep bond between Gohan and 16. Just that 16 gave Gohan the speech he needed to hear to fight. Cell’s callous murder of 16 set Gohan off because it was another being murdered by Cell.

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Re: Between Goku, Vegeta & Gohan Who Do You Think Has Received The Most Amount Of Undeserved Power-Ups/Transformations?

Post by Miracles » Tue May 28, 2019 4:20 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 4:29 pm
Who says foreshadowing has to be necessary for it to be "good" (if that's what you're implying here?)? There are no set guidelines like that. Just because the original Super Saiyan was "foreshadowed" (more like directly telegraphed) doesn't mean everything else has to be or should be.

Super Saiyan 3 makes total sense to me for where Goku is at in his life (err... death?) at that point in the story, and especially as opposed to Vegeta who took a totally different mental route for strength and ultimately concedes to Goku's "number one"-ness following all of it.

I disagree with the entire basic premise/question of the original post, really.
You and me both. Our DB's protagonist's plot is always about ascending. So it isn't a surprise when Goku "randomly" talks up levels beyond SSJ just before entering the Room of Spirit and Time in Cell saga. Then continuing that strength escalation plot with SSJ3 "appearing out of nowhere" after training extensively for seven years in the after life. Foreshadows aren't necessary when the story's premise rests on forever power increases.
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Re: Between Goku, Vegeta & Gohan Who Do You Think Has Received The Most Amount Of Undeserved Power-Ups/Transformations?

Post by ssj3kakarot » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:59 pm

I agree that Gohan is the worst when it comes to undeserved power, except for the very 1st SSJ transformation,which I would argue he actually earned it the MOST, over goku and vegeta.

Goku got it by not trying to achieve it. Sure, he was trying to beat freezer-pops, but not trying to go SSJ. It happened. I understand he trained for a long long time before hand.

Vegeta trained to achieve it and couldnt. And then it wasn't until he gave up and the fueled his transformation.

But Gohan ( and I'm not a Gohan fan) trained his ass off in one of the harshest environments to the Dbz squad, the Room of Spirit and Time.....as a child....with a POST Namek saga Goku.....for almost a year! He wanted it, and in my books, he earned it. There were some ass pulls before, and MANY following that transformation.

My point was only that I think he actually earned his more so than the others, especially kid trunks and goten....... :shock:
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