How Strong Would Baby Vegito Black Be In Your Honest Opinion?

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Re: How Strong Would Baby Vegito Black Be In Your Honest Opinion?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:18 pm

Fused Zamasu has the potential to be stronger. If Fused Zamasu's body is destroyed, he becomes Infinite Zamasu. Infinite Zamasu is a 4th dimensional being who shits on everyone except Zeno.

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Re: How Strong Would Baby Vegito Black Be In Your Honest Opinion?

Post by CTAkuma » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:29 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:
CTAkuma wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote: Again, going up against SSB Goku ain’t a good feat.

Krillin being able able to beam struggle with Blue Goku for more than 2 seconds proves that.

Also, no, its never said that Goku and Beerus were affecting the “macrocosm”. Its literally only said that if they continue, they will destroy the universe leaving nothing left. Thats what the Old Kai said. Nothing more.

And since I believe Super Baby Vegeta 2 would beat an SSJ2 Future Trunks and SSJ2 Future Trunks would have defeated Zamasu if not form immortality, I believe in raw power, Super Baby Vegeta 2 would win
A sparring match between Goku and Krillin where goku obviously would not go all out and a person who threatens to murder people is not a good comparison. Trunks is on god tier levels, he kept up with Black and was able to damage him in Rose, again bad comparison.

Baby Vegeta has no feats putting him even at Galaxy busting levels and you mean to tell me he is stronger than someone who can damage at the very least near universe busting characters?
No. Because SSB Goku aint universe busting. And hurting someone doesn’t mean you’re that powerful since a laser hurt Goku. Zamasu is not more powerful than Super Baby Vegeta 2 since he would have been killed by SSJ2 Future Trunks if not for immortality. And Super Baby Vegeta 2 > SSJ2 Future Trunks

And also that a character going up against SSB Goku means shit since he’s used it agains multiple people who we know could be beaten by a regular SSJ Goku. And the fact that Present Zamasu lost to Goku ssj2, it shows that, unless Future Zamasu trained hard as hell from the time Black recruited him (even though he’s explained that he doesn’t care for strength as long as he is immortal so he probably didnt train at all), Goku doesn’t even need SSB to dominate on Future Zamasu who would be around the same strength as his present counterpart, which further proves that just because Goku uses Blue against someone, doesn’t mean they are powerful or even need SSB to be used to defeat them

Zamasu is weaker than ssj2 goku. And he’s even weaker than SSJ2 Future Trunks who DOESN’T have god ki. So imo Super Baby Vegeta 2 would mop the floor with the guy.

And you keep bringing up how Super Baby Vegeta 2 has never shown galaxy busting feats. Well neither has Zamasu. And Blue Goku hasn’t show universe-busting feats. So whats your point?
You don't seem to understand what powerscaling, ki control or even the concept of "supression" is. Feats are what determine a characters strength when from different series.
Zamasu keeping up with SS2 Goku is at universe busting levels, since SS1 Goku had the god essence i,e power of SSGod absorbed. Again even if you downplay Zamasu and say noone of the unvierse busting feats are valid he would still be superior to Baby just because he managed to DAMAGE SSB GOKU which would mean he had to have power in that region to be able to hurt Blue Goku. Also using the laser hurting him in Blue was movie only, he wasn't in Blue in the series at that moment and even then he was caught offguard

And no Baby is nowhere near FT SS2 Goku levels especially not Blue

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Re: How Strong Would Baby Vegito Black Be In Your Honest Opinion?

Post by AnimeNation101 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:46 pm

CTAkuma wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:
CTAkuma wrote: A sparring match between Goku and Krillin where goku obviously would not go all out and a person who threatens to murder people is not a good comparison. Trunks is on god tier levels, he kept up with Black and was able to damage him in Rose, again bad comparison.

Baby Vegeta has no feats putting him even at Galaxy busting levels and you mean to tell me he is stronger than someone who can damage at the very least near universe busting characters?
No. Because SSB Goku aint universe busting. And hurting someone doesn’t mean you’re that powerful since a laser hurt Goku. Zamasu is not more powerful than Super Baby Vegeta 2 since he would have been killed by SSJ2 Future Trunks if not for immortality. And Super Baby Vegeta 2 > SSJ2 Future Trunks

And also that a character going up against SSB Goku means shit since he’s used it agains multiple people who we know could be beaten by a regular SSJ Goku. And the fact that Present Zamasu lost to Goku ssj2, it shows that, unless Future Zamasu trained hard as hell from the time Black recruited him (even though he’s explained that he doesn’t care for strength as long as he is immortal so he probably didnt train at all), Goku doesn’t even need SSB to dominate on Future Zamasu who would be around the same strength as his present counterpart, which further proves that just because Goku uses Blue against someone, doesn’t mean they are powerful or even need SSB to be used to defeat them

Zamasu is weaker than ssj2 goku. And he’s even weaker than SSJ2 Future Trunks who DOESN’T have god ki. So imo Super Baby Vegeta 2 would mop the floor with the guy.

And you keep bringing up how Super Baby Vegeta 2 has never shown galaxy busting feats. Well neither has Zamasu. And Blue Goku hasn’t show universe-busting feats. So whats your point?
You don't seem to understand what powerscaling, ki control or even the concept of "supression" is. Feats are what determine a characters strength when from different series.
Zamasu keeping up with SS2 Goku is at universe busting levels, since SS1 Goku had the god essence i,e power of SSGod absorbed. Again even if you downplay Zamasu and say noone of the unvierse busting feats are valid he would still be superior to Baby just because he managed to DAMAGE SSB GOKU which would mean he had to have power in that region to be able to hurt Blue Goku. Also using the laser hurting him in Blue was movie only, he wasn't in Blue in the series at that moment and even then he was caught offguard

And no Baby is nowhere near FT SS2 Goku levels especially not Blue
First off, the whole “Goku absorbs God ki keeping it in his base” thing was retconned in R.o.F since SSB is a form that uses God ki with SSJ. If Goku absorbed god ki into his base, he would never be able to go SSJ, only Blue.

So no, the SSJ2 we see fight Zamasu isn’t some SSJ2 powered up with God Ki. Its just SSJ2 Goku. So no, SSJ2 Goku would definitely NOT be a universe buster. And he was able to handle Zamasu.

Damaging a character is not good evidence. A bullet damaged Base Goku who was on guard, mind you. That doesn’t mean the bullet or gun is super powerful.

Heck, Zamasu never even put a scratch on Blue Goku: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW4q0511D6s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-ZGERt2Bvw

So some would arguably say Zamasu did NO damage to SSB Goku.

So Zamasu either doesn’t damage Goku at all really or he does but just damaging a character doesn’t say anything about someone or something’s power considering a bullet had NOTICEABLE damage to Goku’s arm.

Hell, whether its the movie or tv shows, Base Goku or Blue Goku, he was damaged by a simple ray gun. Damaged even more so than Zamasu did damage to SSB Goku if any at all. Does that make the ray gun, a universe busting weapon? No.

So the way I see it, Zamasu is weaker than SSJ2 Goku and so Super Baby Vegeta 2 would be stronger than Zamasu.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: How Strong Would Baby Vegito Black Be In Your Honest Opinion?

Post by CTAkuma » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:55 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:So the way I see it, Zamasu is weaker than SSJ2 Goku and so Super Baby Vegeta 2 would be stronger than Zamasu.
Through what evidence exactly? All the evidence you showed me was headcanon and assumptions with no evidence either. First of all the absorbtion was never retconned unless you want to imply that Base Frieza RoF/Supressed Jiren and Base Black are astronomically weak because of that, the evidence of it not being retconned is the entire BoG anime arc after Goku had regular SS but still SSG power, also it was absorbing the power of SSGod not the God ki this was stated by Toriyama too.

Zamasu kept up with SSBlue Goku got hits in which damaged him this is a fact, keeping up with SS2 Goku post RoF is fine too and proves that Zamasu is at the very least stronger than SSG Goku from the BoG arc meaning he is at universe busting capacity since the shockwaves affected not only their Universe but also the Kaio Shin realm and the afterlife i.e the macrocosm.

How the hell does Baby Vegeta have any feats that put him even above Solar System level?

I have more evidence that Zamasu kept up with God tier characters than you have about feats baby Vegeta pulled to be on a similar level

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Re: How Strong Would Baby Vegito Black Be In Your Honest Opinion?

Post by AnimeNation101 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:26 pm

CTAkuma wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:So the way I see it, Zamasu is weaker than SSJ2 Goku and so Super Baby Vegeta 2 would be stronger than Zamasu.
Through what evidence exactly? All the evidence you showed me was headcanon and assumptions with no evidence either. First of all the absorbtion was never retconned unless you want to imply that Base Frieza RoF/Supressed Jiren and Base Black are astronomically weak because of that, the evidence of it not being retconned is the entire BoG anime arc after Goku had regular SS but still SSG power, also it was absorbing the power of SSGod not the God ki this was stated by Toriyama too.

Zamasu kept up with SSBlue Goku got hits in which damaged him this is a fact, keeping up with SS2 Goku post RoF is fine too and proves that Zamasu is at the very least stronger than SSG Goku from the BoG arc meaning he is at universe busting capacity since the shockwaves affected not only their Universe but also the Kaio Shin realm and the afterlife i.e the macrocosm.

How the hell does Baby Vegeta have any feats that put him even above Solar System level?

I have more evidence that Zamasu kept up with God tier characters than you have about feats baby Vegeta pulled to be on a similar level
Well to start off, the Afterlife is apart of the universe and so is the kaioshin realm.

And at this point, this wont go anywhere because u just have a differnt belief than me. Because to me, SSGod power is LITERALLY God ki. What else would it be? He absorbed the power of the ssgod. The only thing there would be to absorb from the form IS god ki. And the god ki is what gives the form its power. God power means god ki.

And so it was retconned since according to R.o.F, SSB is SSJ using god ki. So Goku shouldn’t be able to go SSJ and use god ki at the same time without being in Blue. Which means the SSJ2 Goku that fought Zamasu is far weaker than you claim.

And Zamasu didn’t do any real damage to Blue Goku or atleast the damage he did wasn’t even noticeable on Goku (no scars or bruises came from Zamasu’s attacks according to the scenes where they fight. And again, even if he did do damage, a bullet was able to do actual noticeable damage to Goku’s arm. That proves that just doing damage alone isn’t good evidence for how powerful some is.

And now you claim that SBVegeta 2 is weaker because he hasn’t blown up a galaxy but thats also invalid considering Zamasu and Goku also have yet to destroy a galaxy. And again, just because you don’t see a feat, doesn’t mean it can’t be pulled off.

So to me, Zamasu is weaker than a SSJ2 Goku who doesn’t have any god power which is just another term for god ki since the god ki is what gives the form its power. And SBVegeta 2 is more powerful.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: How Strong Would Baby Vegito Black Be In Your Honest Opinion?

Post by CTAkuma » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:34 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:
CTAkuma wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:So the way I see it, Zamasu is weaker than SSJ2 Goku and so Super Baby Vegeta 2 would be stronger than Zamasu.
Through what evidence exactly? All the evidence you showed me was headcanon and assumptions with no evidence either. First of all the absorbtion was never retconned unless you want to imply that Base Frieza RoF/Supressed Jiren and Base Black are astronomically weak because of that, the evidence of it not being retconned is the entire BoG anime arc after Goku had regular SS but still SSG power, also it was absorbing the power of SSGod not the God ki this was stated by Toriyama too.

Zamasu kept up with SSBlue Goku got hits in which damaged him this is a fact, keeping up with SS2 Goku post RoF is fine too and proves that Zamasu is at the very least stronger than SSG Goku from the BoG arc meaning he is at universe busting capacity since the shockwaves affected not only their Universe but also the Kaio Shin realm and the afterlife i.e the macrocosm.

How the hell does Baby Vegeta have any feats that put him even above Solar System level?

I have more evidence that Zamasu kept up with God tier characters than you have about feats baby Vegeta pulled to be on a similar level
Well to start off, the Afterlife is apart of the universe and so is the kaioshin realm.

And at this point, this wont go anywhere because u just have a differnt belief than me. Because to me, SSGod power is LITERALLY God ki. What else would it be? He absorbed the power of the ssgod. The only thing there would be to absorb from the form IS god ki. And the god ki is what gives the form its power. God power means god ki.

And so it was retconned since according to R.o.F, SSB is SSJ using god ki. So Goku shouldn’t be able to go SSJ and use god ki at the same time without being in Blue. Which means the SSJ2 Goku that fought Zamasu is far weaker than you claim.

And Zamasu didn’t do any real damage to Blue Goku or atleast the damage he did wasn’t even noticeable on Goku (no scars or bruises came from Zamasu’s attacks according to the scenes where they fight. And again, even if he did do damage, a bullet was able to do actual noticeable damage to Goku’s arm. That proves that just doing damage alone isn’t good evidence for how powerful some is.

And now you claim that SBVegeta 2 is weaker because he hasn’t blown up a galaxy but thats also invalid considering Zamasu and Goku also have yet to destroy a galaxy. And again, just because you don’t see a feat, doesn’t mean it can’t be pulled off.

So to me, Zamasu is weaker than a SSJ2 Goku who doesn’t have any god power which is just another term for god ki since the god ki is what gives the form its power. And SBVegeta 2 is more powerful.
Jesus how ignorant some people are
Image
And they didn't sense him, woah who'd expect that with apparent God Ki
Image
This is proof enough that Goku in SS1 is at the very least as strong as SSG meaning Universe buster, compare that with Black arc Zamasu and boom entire argument refuted

And this entire time you couldn't prove that Baby came close in raw power, no feats, no statements and no images

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Re: How Strong Would Baby Vegito Black Be In Your Honest Opinion?

Post by AnimeNation101 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:44 am

CTAkuma wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:
CTAkuma wrote: Through what evidence exactly? All the evidence you showed me was headcanon and assumptions with no evidence either. First of all the absorbtion was never retconned unless you want to imply that Base Frieza RoF/Supressed Jiren and Base Black are astronomically weak because of that, the evidence of it not being retconned is the entire BoG anime arc after Goku had regular SS but still SSG power, also it was absorbing the power of SSGod not the God ki this was stated by Toriyama too.

Zamasu kept up with SSBlue Goku got hits in which damaged him this is a fact, keeping up with SS2 Goku post RoF is fine too and proves that Zamasu is at the very least stronger than SSG Goku from the BoG arc meaning he is at universe busting capacity since the shockwaves affected not only their Universe but also the Kaio Shin realm and the afterlife i.e the macrocosm.

How the hell does Baby Vegeta have any feats that put him even above Solar System level?

I have more evidence that Zamasu kept up with God tier characters than you have about feats baby Vegeta pulled to be on a similar level
Well to start off, the Afterlife is apart of the universe and so is the kaioshin realm.

And at this point, this wont go anywhere because u just have a differnt belief than me. Because to me, SSGod power is LITERALLY God ki. What else would it be? He absorbed the power of the ssgod. The only thing there would be to absorb from the form IS god ki. And the god ki is what gives the form its power. God power means god ki.

And so it was retconned since according to R.o.F, SSB is SSJ using god ki. So Goku shouldn’t be able to go SSJ and use god ki at the same time without being in Blue. Which means the SSJ2 Goku that fought Zamasu is far weaker than you claim.

And Zamasu didn’t do any real damage to Blue Goku or atleast the damage he did wasn’t even noticeable on Goku (no scars or bruises came from Zamasu’s attacks according to the scenes where they fight. And again, even if he did do damage, a bullet was able to do actual noticeable damage to Goku’s arm. That proves that just doing damage alone isn’t good evidence for how powerful some is.

And now you claim that SBVegeta 2 is weaker because he hasn’t blown up a galaxy but thats also invalid considering Zamasu and Goku also have yet to destroy a galaxy. And again, just because you don’t see a feat, doesn’t mean it can’t be pulled off.

So to me, Zamasu is weaker than a SSJ2 Goku who doesn’t have any god power which is just another term for god ki since the god ki is what gives the form its power. And SBVegeta 2 is more powerful.
Jesus how ignorant some people are
Image
And they didn't sense him, woah who'd expect that with apparent God Ki
Image
This is proof enough that Goku in SS1 is at the very least as strong as SSG meaning Universe buster, compare that with Black arc Zamasu and boom entire argument refuted

And this entire time you couldn't prove that Baby came close in raw power, no feats, no statements and no images
Which is why I'm saying the whole thing was retconned by R.o.F. And again, you’re being hypocritical.

Ur telling me I'm wrong since Baby Vegeta hasn’t shown feats like universe busting yet Goku has yet to show the feats too. So you’re just assuming.


Again, this wont go anywhere purely because you are interpreting things wrong imo and I'm interpreting things wrong in your opinion. So i dont really care anymore, you can believe what you want.

Although i find it funny how you’re getting so worked up you’re calling people ignorant just because they dont agree with you, lol.i
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Re: How Strong Would Baby Vegito Black Be In Your Honest Opinion?

Post by CTAkuma » Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:15 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:Although i find it funny how you’re getting so worked up you’re calling people ignorant just because they dont agree with you, lol.i
No you're ignorant because you think it was retconned or apparently something like having SSG power while not having God Ki is absurd even though the images i showed you(from the anime) proved that wrong by itself.

If you don't want to show me feats then i guess its done here

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Re: How Strong Would Baby Vegito Black Be In Your Honest Opinion?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:10 pm

Almost nothing that was shown or said in BoG saga have any meaning in later arcs.
There isn't really anything that would put Zamasu anywhere near Baby Vegeta.
This is the guy that couldn't even handle Future Trunks and don't even start saying that Trunks could land a hit on Baby when he was struggling with Dabura and has no god ki which is an argument very often used against GT despite being no argument at all after BoG (Golden Frieza stomped that god ki in 4 months as well as many other mortals in Super).
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Re: How Strong Would Baby Vegito Black Be In Your Honest Opinion?

Post by Saturnine » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:44 am

Agreed. You can't keep clinging to evidence from the BoG arc and act as if it's still valid 2 arcs later. Super was a huge mess from the writing consistency standpoint.

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Re: How Strong Would Baby Vegito Black Be In Your Honest Opinion?

Post by zarmack » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:51 pm

Saturnine wrote:Agreed. You can't keep clinging to evidence from the BoG arc and act as if it's still valid 2 arcs later. Super was a huge mess from the writing consistency standpoint.
No it isn't, nothing from the BoG arc has ever been retconned. People only say that because they don't like the idea of Goku & Vegeta being all that strong in base. It comes from pure bias, not any kind of logical argument.

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Re: How Strong Would Baby Vegito Black Be In Your Honest Opinion?

Post by zarmack » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:57 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:Almost nothing that was shown or said in BoG saga have any meaning in later arcs.
There isn't really anything that would put Zamasu anywhere near Baby Vegeta.
This is the guy that couldn't even handle Future Trunks and don't even start saying that Trunks could land a hit on Baby when he was struggling with Dabura and has no god ki which is an argument very often used against GT despite being no argument at all after BoG (Golden Frieza stomped that god ki in 4 months as well as many other mortals in Super).
Nothing from the BoG arc has ever been retconned. People only claim it has simply out of bias, not because of any proof or logic.

No one from GT by feats and statements come anywhere close to even SSG Goku at any point in Super, let alone Zamasu. Most GT characters are still relative to the Buu saga, while BoG Goku clearly outstrips anything in Z.

And God ki has nothing to do with strength, why do so many people assume it does when it was never said to?

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