Anyone Miss When the Arcs Used to Connect Swiftly?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Lukmendes
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Re: Anyone Miss When the Arcs Used to Connect Swiftly?

Post by Lukmendes » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:46 pm

Doctor. wrote:There will never be any kind of rift in the group where characters end up opposing each-other for some reason because we know they're still friends at the end.
Like DB is the kind of story for this to happen, even when the characters would have enough reasons to be pissed off at Goku, they aren't, it's bad enough that when Goku threw a senzu to Cell, Gohan didn't even react to it, and the characters who did, forgot about it a while after, at the end of the day, those characters will remain friends even if it makes no sense.
Doctor. wrote:It's the only arc of Super where you can actually feel like something's at stake, but it doesn't help that the series doesn't give us a reason to ever give a shit about Trunks' timeline.
That's a problem only in the manga, with the anime they showed some other extras and how they're struggling to survive and help each other out, and the never ending gratitude they have for Trunks, this is far more than what DB or DBZ did, since the random civilians get killed and there's no reason to care for them, to the point nobody cares about that city Nappa destroyed, since that's the only time people were killed and weren't brought back with the dragon balls, and there's no reason to care.

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Re: Anyone Miss When the Arcs Used to Connect Swiftly?

Post by Saiga » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:37 am

Lukmendes wrote:
Doctor. wrote:It's the only arc of Super where you can actually feel like something's at stake, but it doesn't help that the series doesn't give us a reason to ever give a shit about Trunks' timeline.
That's a problem only in the manga, with the anime they showed some other extras and how they're struggling to survive and help each other out, and the never ending gratitude they have for Trunks, this is far more than what DB or DBZ did, since the random civilians get killed and there's no reason to care for them, to the point nobody cares about that city Nappa destroyed, since that's the only time people were killed and weren't brought back with the dragon balls, and there's no reason to care.
The extras were just that: extras. They weren't compelling characters, they were a source of padding and stretching things out.

And they end up the exact same way as Nappa's victims: killed off and never revived. The fact that Trunks is happy with a shiny new timeline completely craps on both the struggle and consequences of the arc. It establishes that there was no reason to care about either version, and that's a problem in both versions.
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Re: Anyone Miss When the Arcs Used to Connect Swiftly?

Post by Lukmendes » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:30 am

Saiga wrote:The extras were just that: extras. They weren't compelling characters, they were a source of padding and stretching things out.
So? They had about as much characterization as Upa, which, is barely anything, but shows that the characters have something to fight for, in Upa's case, for Goku to want to gather the rest of the dragon balls and beat up RR army, and for Trunks to save his world, they're plot devices and they work alright for that.
And they end up the exact same way as Nappa's victims: killed off and never revived. The fact that Trunks is happy with a shiny new timeline completely craps on both the struggle and consequences of the arc. It establishes that there was no reason to care about either version, and that's a problem in both versions.
Just in the manga Trunks is callous about his world being destroyed, in the anime he's clearly depressed about it, even if he ends up smiling in the end.

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Re: Anyone Miss When the Arcs Used to Connect Swiftly?

Post by Kataphrut » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:40 am

Regarding the OT complaint: does it really matter? Just because Namek followed directly from Saiyan doesn't mean that it's some vital ingredient to the success of classic Dragon Ball that modern Dragon Ball has abandoned and in doing so spit on the most cherished legacy of the glorious creator Akira Toriyama. Plenty of arcs had downtime and time skips in-between.

Regarding the separate argument that's broken out about tension: at some point people need to accept that we're not going to get as many 'evil monster tries to destroy the universe' plots like we got in the old days. The nature of Super's setting makes it impossible. Instead it's telling different type of stories; the key drivers are the main characters endless self-improvement drive (which took a back-seat in Z after they became reactionary kung fu superheroes) and the divine comedy of the expanded god hierarchy. That very same god hierarchy is the reason we don't get as many old-style villains and threats to the universe. Since the whole series is protected by canon thanks to fitting within the Z timeline, they added an in-universe safety net through characters like Beerus and Zeno, ensuring no threat can ever get too extreme. Now every threat is either personal (Freeza, Broly), instigated by the gods (the two tournaments) or bends over backwards to create a scenario where a classic evil monster vs the universe story can take place (Zamasu).

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Re: Anyone Miss When the Arcs Used to Connect Swiftly?

Post by Vegard Aune » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:18 am

PFM18 wrote: The series didn't end after the Cell arc, and it was never going to end after the Cell arc so this is a moot point. Goku was going to be fine and we all knew that, we were right.
Toriyama's own comments at the time indicate that, at the time of concluding the Cell arc, he fully intended for this to be the end of Goku and that Dragon Ball was now officially Gohan's story. Go read his comments in volume 35 talking about killing Goku. They were not "Well he's dead now but he'll come back eventually" type comments. So, no, at the time the fanbase couldn't have "known" that Goku would eventually be revived, because it rather looked like even the author didn't think he would.

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Re: Anyone Miss When the Arcs Used to Connect Swiftly?

Post by PFM18 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:24 am

Vegard Aune wrote:
PFM18 wrote: The series didn't end after the Cell arc, and it was never going to end after the Cell arc so this is a moot point. Goku was going to be fine and we all knew that, we were right.
Toriyama's own comments at the time indicate that, at the time of concluding the Cell arc, he fully intended for this to be the end of Goku and that Dragon Ball was now officially Gohan's story. Go read his comments in volume 35 talking about killing Goku. They were not "Well he's dead now but he'll come back eventually" type comments. So, no, at the time the fanbase couldn't have "known" that Goku would eventually be revived, because it rather looked like even the author didn't think he would.
That's a huge misconception. He never intended for it to end after the Cell Arc. Geekdom made a video about it I recommend you watch it.

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Vegard Aune
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Re: Anyone Miss When the Arcs Used to Connect Swiftly?

Post by Vegard Aune » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:09 am

PFM18 wrote:
Vegard Aune wrote:
PFM18 wrote: The series didn't end after the Cell arc, and it was never going to end after the Cell arc so this is a moot point. Goku was going to be fine and we all knew that, we were right.
Toriyama's own comments at the time indicate that, at the time of concluding the Cell arc, he fully intended for this to be the end of Goku and that Dragon Ball was now officially Gohan's story. Go read his comments in volume 35 talking about killing Goku. They were not "Well he's dead now but he'll come back eventually" type comments. So, no, at the time the fanbase couldn't have "known" that Goku would eventually be revived, because it rather looked like even the author didn't think he would.
That's a huge misconception. He never intended for it to end after the Cell Arc. Geekdom made a video about it I recommend you watch it.
Read what I said again. I said he intended for Goku to remain dead and for Gohan to become the new main character. I know full well that Cell wasn't meant to be the end of the series as a whole.

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Re: Anyone Miss When the Arcs Used to Connect Swiftly?

Post by DNA » Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:08 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:GT also had that problem, No? Didn't the Movie A Hero's Legacy (set many decades after the death of Baby) first air in Japan before the Super 17 arc even started? So everyone already knew that Super 17 and Omega Shenron would eventually lose.
I disagree, that one doesn't really count. It's set 100 years after the conclusion, we have no idea what happened to any of the characters. Also, GT had Piccolo permanently sacrificing himself, that was a big deal and took balls, that's a main character that died forever. Also, Goku became a sort of deity or spirit, but the special already had that. Oh, GT also permanently killed Majin Buu, that was really dramatic and unexpected.
For as much shit GT gets, it had some dramatic moments with permanent consequences.
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Mister_Popo
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Re: Anyone Miss When the Arcs Used to Connect Swiftly?

Post by Mister_Popo » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:05 pm

Yes, it would be a cool idea the Galactic Patrol Prisoner Arc would set up a much bigger arc, like Namek did for the Freeza saga.

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Re: Anyone Miss When the Arcs Used to Connect Swiftly?

Post by lancerman » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:20 am

Honestly they haven't done this for awhile.

Hunt for the Dragon Ball arc goes into the Tournament arc which goes into the Red Ribbon arc (though both are clear breaks in the story) and it's just Goku redirecting his adventure.

There is a clear gap after the Red Ribbon arc of Goku going off for a few years to train before the 22nd Tournament arc. Then the 22nd flows into the King Piccolo arc. And while the 23rd tournament is effectively a sequel to that arc, there is a time jump of 3 years again.

Then there is a time jump to the Saiyan arc. Now the Saiyan arc goes straight into the Freeza arc. But after that there is a gap to the Android arc and another gap to the Boo arc.

So Z starts with a break in the story, has two linking arcs, then breaks again for one arc, then breaks again for the last arc. So really only two arcs in Z connect in a series that starts as a break from the story. And in the whole Dragonball mythos, only the 22nd and Piccolo arcs and the Saiyan and Freeza arcs a real seamlessly swift flows. Otherwise it's just the characters just starting a new journey after the last one ends or big timeline jumps

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