Gun 2.0

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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dbzfan7
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Gun 2.0

Post by dbzfan7 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:24 am

So as someone who mocked to hell and back the Goku gets caught of guard/Sorbets ring stuff. Here we are with the latest manga chapter. It makes me realize more than anything, can we please capitalize on this stuff? If we got technology that good, we really should see more of it. That could vary the amount of ways we can see a problem solved. It would allow lower tier characters a chance to fight back. Or heck imagine what Bulma could produce if she got her hands on these kind of toys. The thing that bugs me now a days about these things is they never capitalize on this. Here's something that took down Goku and Vegeta easily. Hey that'd make for a sweet tool for later....but will it actually be relevant later? I have a feeling no. I fear it's a plot device to move from point A to B basically. I do hope we get something out of this, even if it makes me rethink the Galactic Patrol in general.
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Re: Gun 2.0

Post by BWri » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:18 am

dbzfan7 wrote:So as someone who mocked to hell and back the Goku gets caught of guard/Sorbets ring stuff. Here we are with the latest manga chapter. It makes me realize more than anything, can we please capitalize on this stuff? If we got technology that good, we really should see more of it. That could vary the amount of ways we can see a problem solved. It would allow lower tier characters a chance to fight back. Or heck imagine what Bulma could produce if she got her hands on these kind of toys. The thing that bugs me now a days about these things is they never capitalize on this. Here's something that took down Goku and Vegeta easily. Hey that'd make for a sweet tool for later....but will it actually be relevant later? I have a feeling no. I fear it's a plot device to move from point A to B basically. I do hope we get something out of this, even if it makes me rethink the Galactic Patrol in general.
I'm hoping that this guy just has stealth skills that are off the charts. This gun is insane though. Time and time again, we are seeing that technology can easily surpass god-like mortals and in the ToP can even pressure the god tiers. I mean, when you consider that King Kai is technically a god, this tech is broken.

We have

-Sorbet's Laser (which can be explained away)
-Android 17
-Koicherator
-Anilaza
-Galactic Patrol gun (the way it was displayed can't be explained away, he outright outspeeded Vegeta who saw this coming)
-Cell (potentially with Frieza, Piccolo, and Saiyan DNA)
-Mai's Enhanced Sniper Rifle (could also be explained away

Mortals too OP
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Re: Gun 2.0

Post by Kataphrut » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:33 am

One of the better things Toriyama re-established in Battle of Gods and Resurrection F is that even though these characters are super-powered uber-men, they're not made of rock. They can be surprised, they can be out-foxed. Makes it easier to justify weaker characters getting brought back into the fold when the situation calls for it.

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Re: Gun 2.0

Post by Lionel » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:21 am

Speaking truthfully, I don't find this too surprising. Goku and Vegeta don't possess some kind of absolute immunity to ailment or biological implements in general like Buu. You could find various military technological developments in real life that would seem to have the capacity to operate on a premise that bypasses externalised power defenses in order to strike at the interior segments of their anatomy.

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Re: Gun 2.0

Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:37 am

Also ROF has pointed out with Sorbet's laser, is that if they have there guard down, they will feel the pain or at least get bruise. Like Goku had the bullet bruise him in the beginning of TOP. He didn't think the bullets were going to phase him, so he was more relaxed in that situation.
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Re: Gun 2.0

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:06 pm

I think another factor people overlook (and I'm hoping I don't stir the pot on this one) is the idea that Goku and co. suppress their power when needed. That's how he was able to get scuffed by the bullet before the ToP. Now Sorbet's laser did catch him off guard. As for the Galactic Patrol, I feel it a combination of the two. Not only were Goku and Vegeta caught off guard by how fast our new Elite patrolmen is, but they were also suppressed as well.

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Re: Gun 2.0

Post by goku the krump dancer » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:27 pm

I agree with most of you guys, this whole ray gun thing is being blown waaaay out of proportion. The chapter hasn't even been translated by viz yet. Dragon Ball has always been about martial arts as well as sci-fi super tech too. If devices like the gravity room and the healing chamber or blutz wave guns can be used to heal wounds or make Goku and Vegeta stronger, Why is it so hard to believe that the top cop of the universe can catch Goku and Vegeta off guard with his weird paralyzer gun? Especially when they're not only in their most vulnerable forms but not really trying either.
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Re: Gun 2.0

Post by emi_b7 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:18 pm

I don't really have a problem with the gun, but the guy outspeeding Vegeta seems weird to me. You could argue he caught Goku by surprise, but Vegeta should have had his guard up after watching that.
Let's wait to read the chapter (and next one probably) for better context though.

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Re: Gun 2.0

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:47 pm

MKCSTEALTH wrote:I think another factor people overlook (and I'm hoping I don't stir the pot on this one) is the idea that Goku and co. suppress their power when needed.
It's worth to note they actually have to power-UP from their base forms, not power-DOWN.
A relaxed base-form Goku would probably have a power-level about 20k at best nowadays. Once he turns Ki on, he COULD skyrocket to god-knows-how-much... IF he WANTS.
emi_b7 wrote:the guy outspeeding Vegeta seems weird to me.
He probably used surprise effect to hit Goku but not his MAX speed.
Then he went even faster against Vegeta, who was convinced he had already witnessed the real speed of the guy

Note well: neither Goku or Vegeta take those guys even REMOTELY seriously. They got cocky and the guy managed to bank on it.

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Re: Gun 2.0

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:26 pm

BWri wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:So as someone who mocked to hell and back the Goku gets caught of guard/Sorbets ring stuff. Here we are with the latest manga chapter. It makes me realize more than anything, can we please capitalize on this stuff? If we got technology that good, we really should see more of it. That could vary the amount of ways we can see a problem solved. It would allow lower tier characters a chance to fight back. Or heck imagine what Bulma could produce if she got her hands on these kind of toys. The thing that bugs me now a days about these things is they never capitalize on this. Here's something that took down Goku and Vegeta easily. Hey that'd make for a sweet tool for later....but will it actually be relevant later? I have a feeling no. I fear it's a plot device to move from point A to B basically. I do hope we get something out of this, even if it makes me rethink the Galactic Patrol in general.
I'm hoping that this guy just has stealth skills that are off the charts. This gun is insane though. Time and time again, we are seeing that technology can easily surpass god-like mortals and in the ToP can even pressure the god tiers. I mean, when you consider that King Kai is technically a god, this tech is broken.

We have

-Sorbet's Laser (which can be explained away)
-Android 17
-Koicherator
-Anilaza
-Galactic Patrol gun (the way it was displayed can't be explained away, he outright outspeeded Vegeta who saw this coming)
-Cell (potentially with Frieza, Piccolo, and Saiyan DNA)
-Mai's Enhanced Sniper Rifle (could also be explained away

Mortals too OP
You forgot Arale, the most powerful tech in the Dragon Ball universe. Senbei Norimaki could probably build a robot stronger than Beerus if he really wanted to.

Edit: you also forgot Tori-bot, who appeared in the manga and is technically a part of the Dragon Ball universe too.

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Re: Gun 2.0

Post by ssj3kakarot » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:32 am

GreatSaiyaJeff wrote:Also ROF has pointed out with Sorbet's laser, is that if they have there guard down, they will feel the pain or at least get bruise. Like Goku had the bullet bruise him in the beginning of TOP. He didn't think the bullets were going to phase him, so he was more relaxed in that situation.

Which is a complete retcon to Goku being Uber durable since birth basically.

Bulma shot him.....in the face! He was hurt, but post BoG Goku should eat bullets even if he isn’t paying attention. Goku getting bruised by the bullets scene is a terrible
Point that Goku needs to resume his training. It undies certain established traits of Goku.

To be clear, I’m okay with how this galactic gun is able to subdue people. A little too convenient that Jaco didn’t use it years ago, he’s always so scared! But why when they have this tech. I’m not okay with the speed blitz. Someone else said there are better ways to get Goku and Vegeta on the ship than making them look bad, unless the point is to make Bowl-cut look good. But if that’s the case, where has he been this whole time. If Bowl-cut isn’t in some way to hype someone or play an actual role, what’s the point in showing him speed blitz.
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Re: Gun 2.0

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:06 am

I agree with the person who said that this guy probably has some kind of super incredible stealth skills. Perhaps his ki is undetectable like the Trio De Dangers.
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Re: Gun 2.0

Post by BWri » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:27 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:I agree with the person who said that this guy probably has some kind of super incredible stealth skills. Perhaps his ki is undetectable like the Trio De Dangers.
I hope so. He'd be pretty effective now, since so much power is lost when your guard is down.
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Re: Gun 2.0

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:24 am

BWri wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:I agree with the person who said that this guy probably has some kind of super incredible stealth skills. Perhaps his ki is undetectable like the Trio De Dangers.
I hope so. He'd be pretty effective now, since so much power is lost when your guard is down.
Or maybe the Galactic Patrol invented a device that makes the user's ki undetectable, as a counter to Freeza's scouters. That would be interesting.
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Re: Gun 2.0

Post by BWri » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:03 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
BWri wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:I agree with the person who said that this guy probably has some kind of super incredible stealth skills. Perhaps his ki is undetectable like the Trio De Dangers.
I hope so. He'd be pretty effective now, since so much power is lost when your guard is down.
Or maybe the Galactic Patrol invented a device that makes the user's ki undetectable, as a counter to Freeza's scouters. That would be interesting.
Now that is an interesting idea. I hope to see it in the arc. It would definitely change the dynamics of the show a little bit, which I'm fine with.
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-

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Re: Gun 2.0

Post by Lionel » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:14 pm

Looking over the specifics on how tasers/stun guns operate, I feel more at ease with the reaction that Goku and Vegeta exhibited. The mechanics of those weapons involve distorting neurocognitive information being transferred from the brain to the muscles via electrical impulses. It basically results in an overloading of the neural-muscular framework of the body, causing the muscles to expand and contract uncontrollably against the person's will (which can often result in unconsciousness).

I think the difference between normal human made tasers and the one used by the Galactic Patrol is that the latter doesn't appear to require prongs, insulated extendable wires and that it seems to create an outwardly encompassing field of electricity that can be seen and is being applied across the entirety of the body instead of having to be sent through a single point of entry with the aforementioned prongs.

It sort of reminds me of Roshi's Thunder Shock Surprise -- the Daizenshuu characterises it as an electric based technique using similar principles as what the Galactic Patrol employed against the Saiyans.

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Re: Gun 2.0

Post by Lord Frieza » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:47 pm

Lionel wrote:Looking over the specifics on how tasers/stun guns operate, I feel more at ease with the reaction that Goku and Vegeta exhibited. The mechanics of those weapons involve distorting neurocognitive information being transferred from the brain to the muscles via electrical impulses. It basically results in an overloading of the neural-muscular framework of the body, causing the muscles to expand and contract uncontrollably against the person's will (which can often result in unconsciousness).

I think the difference between normal human made tasers and the one used by the Galactic Patrol is that the latter doesn't appear to require prongs, insulated extendable wires and that it seems to create an outwardly encompassing field of electricity that can be seen and is being applied across the entirety of the body instead of having to be sent through a single point of entry with the aforementioned prongs.

It sort of reminds me of Roshi's Thunder Shock Surprise -- the Daizenshuu characterises it as an electric based technique using similar principles as what the Galactic Patrol employed against the Saiyans.
Its no different then why Tear Gas worked on Goku Black and Zamasu, It works by irritating mucous membranes in the eyes, nose, mouth and lungs, and causes crying, sneezing, coughing, difficulty breathing, pain in the eyes, and temporary blindness. Intense cold and being frozen have also been shown to be very effective against Goku in the passed. He was powerless in the cold wilderness around Jingle Village as a child, in movie two the cold of the Tsumisumbri Mountains affected his ability to use ki and when frozen by Ebifurya he was helpless for a time. The best example however is Eis Shenron who had SS4 Goku completely at his mercy thanks to his ice powers befor his brother stepped in.
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Re: Gun 2.0

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:54 pm

To be blitzed and knocked out by some galactic patrol man seems like PIS to me, however, I can wait until next chapter to see if that stun gun has any special properties if not it's also PIS.

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