Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:08 am

Son-Kakaroto wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
BWri wrote: Thats an interesting look at it, but what does it manage to fill in? It seems more contradictory than anything. It goes out of its way to introduce alternate takes on the content rather than flesh it out.

Are you referring to them providing more info about Jiren's master?
Yeah, stuff like:

- Jiren's wish being expanded upon
- The relationship with Vermoud and Jiren's master
- Future Trunks being Kaioshin's disciple and battling Babidi, Dabra and his minions
- Goku Black's evolution to Super Saiyan Rose
How does the anime expand the manga, though? the tv show of course? All you need is the manga and movie to get a whole and conclusive product.
That's not the point of the conversation we're having...

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by Son-Kakaroto » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:56 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Son-Kakaroto wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: Yeah, stuff like:

- Jiren's wish being expanded upon
- The relationship with Vermoud and Jiren's master
- Future Trunks being Kaioshin's disciple and battling Babidi, Dabra and his minions
- Goku Black's evolution to Super Saiyan Rose
How does the anime expand the manga, though? the tv show of course? All you need is the manga and movie to get a whole and conclusive product.
That's not the point of the conversation we're having...
You just said the manga is incomplete unless you watch the movie AND "tv anime"? How does the anime expand the manga in any needed way?

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:21 am

Son-Kakaroto wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Son-Kakaroto wrote: How does the anime expand the manga, though? the tv show of course? All you need is the manga and movie to get a whole and conclusive product.
That's not the point of the conversation we're having...
You just said the manga is incomplete unless you watch the movie AND "tv anime"? How does the anime expand the manga in any needed way?
I said:
If you look at the manga as it's own product, it's very incomplete.
Which is true. It literally skips an the events of the Resurrection F and Dragon Ball Super Broly.
And the I later stated:
But if you look at the angle of the manga being supplementary material for Toriyama's movies and Super TV anime, it fits in the necessary slots and feels like a wholesome product.
Which again, is true. As Toyotaro doesn't cover Resurrection F or Dragon Ball Super Broly (Both of which are written by Toriyama himself). And the material that the manga does cover, adds a bit more context here and there compared to specific scenarios in the anime. Hence I used the term "supplementary material". The TV anime covers every major story Toriyama has provided so far, but Toyotaro manga hasn't.

How much mileage you gain from what Toyotaro covers -- in regards to plot-lines that Toriyama provides -- compared to anime, is to your discretion.

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by Son-Kakaroto » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:31 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Son-Kakaroto wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: That's not the point of the conversation we're having...
You just said the manga is incomplete unless you watch the movie AND "tv anime"? How does the anime expand the manga in any needed way?
I said:
If you look at the manga as it's own product, it's very incomplete.
Which is true. It literally skips an the events of the Resurrection F and Dragon Ball Super Broly.
And the I later stated:
But if you look at the angle of the manga being supplementary material for Toriyama's movies and Super TV anime, it fits in the necessary slots and feels like a wholesome product.
Which again, is true. As Toyotaro doesn't cover Resurrection F or Dragon Ball Super Broly (Both of which are written by Toriyama himself). And the material that the manga does cover, adds a bit more context here and there compared to specific scenarios in the anime. Hence I used the term "supplementary material". The TV anime covers every major story Toriyama has provided so far, but Toyotaro manga hasn't.

How much mileage you gain from what Toyotaro covers -- in regards to plot-lines that Toriyama provides -- compared to anime, is to your discretion.
Okay, we agree to disagree, Berrus. Don't understand why you like yourself in the anime, when your manga counterpart is stronger and 10x cooler and more savage.

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by BWri » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:55 am

Son-Kakaroto wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Son-Kakaroto wrote: You just said the manga is incomplete unless you watch the movie AND "tv anime"? How does the anime expand the manga in any needed way?
I said:
If you look at the manga as it's own product, it's very incomplete.
Which is true. It literally skips an the events of the Resurrection F and Dragon Ball Super Broly.
And the I later stated:
But if you look at the angle of the manga being supplementary material for Toriyama's movies and Super TV anime, it fits in the necessary slots and feels like a wholesome product.
Which again, is true. As Toyotaro doesn't cover Resurrection F or Dragon Ball Super Broly (Both of which are written by Toriyama himself). And the material that the manga does cover, adds a bit more context here and there compared to specific scenarios in the anime. Hence I used the term "supplementary material". The TV anime covers every major story Toriyama has provided so far, but Toyotaro manga hasn't.

How much mileage you gain from what Toyotaro covers -- in regards to plot-lines that Toriyama provides -- compared to anime, is to your discretion.
Okay, we agree to disagree, Berrus. Don't understand why you like yourself in the anime, when your manga counterpart is stronger and 10x cooler and more savage.
Anime Beerus is definitely stronger than manga Beerus. Just about everyone in the anime is stronger than the manga with the strange exceptions of ToP Gohan and U6 arc Piccolo. The Piccolo example makes sense when you see his overall improvement in the ToP.

I believe the power inflation started with the SSBKK and since that power levels in the anime are out of control compared to the mostly conservative manga.
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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by Son-Kakaroto » Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:53 pm

BWri wrote:
Son-Kakaroto wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: I said:

Which is true. It literally skips an the events of the Resurrection F and Dragon Ball Super Broly.
And the I later stated:

Which again, is true. As Toyotaro doesn't cover Resurrection F or Dragon Ball Super Broly (Both of which are written by Toriyama himself). And the material that the manga does cover, adds a bit more context here and there compared to specific scenarios in the anime. Hence I used the term "supplementary material". The TV anime covers every major story Toriyama has provided so far, but Toyotaro manga hasn't.

How much mileage you gain from what Toyotaro covers -- in regards to plot-lines that Toriyama provides -- compared to anime, is to your discretion.
Okay, we agree to disagree, Berrus. Don't understand why you like yourself in the anime, when your manga counterpart is stronger and 10x cooler and more savage.
Anime Beerus is definitely stronger than manga Beerus. Just about everyone in the anime is stronger than the manga with the strange exceptions of ToP Gohan and U6 arc Piccolo. The Piccolo example makes sense when you see his overall improvement in the ToP.

I believe the power inflation started with the SSBKK and since that power levels in the anime are out of control compared to the mostly conservative manga.
Berrus is top 2 gods, while anime berrus is middle of pack and nothing to talk about.

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:19 pm

Son-Kakaroto wrote:
BWri wrote:
Son-Kakaroto wrote: Okay, we agree to disagree, Berrus. Don't understand why you like yourself in the anime, when your manga counterpart is stronger and 10x cooler and more savage.
Anime Beerus is definitely stronger than manga Beerus. Just about everyone in the anime is stronger than the manga with the strange exceptions of ToP Gohan and U6 arc Piccolo. The Piccolo example makes sense when you see his overall improvement in the ToP.

I believe the power inflation started with the SSBKK and since that power levels in the anime are out of control compared to the mostly conservative manga.
Berrus is top 2 gods, while anime berrus is middle of pack and nothing to talk about.
How did you come to that conclusion?

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by Son-Kakaroto » Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:22 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Son-Kakaroto wrote:
BWri wrote: Anime Beerus is definitely stronger than manga Beerus. Just about everyone in the anime is stronger than the manga with the strange exceptions of ToP Gohan and U6 arc Piccolo. The Piccolo example makes sense when you see his overall improvement in the ToP.

I believe the power inflation started with the SSBKK and since that power levels in the anime are out of control compared to the mostly conservative manga.
Berrus is top 2 gods, while anime berrus is middle of pack and nothing to talk about.
How did you come to that conclusion?
Anime berrus is already weaker then belmod, and no feats show or imply him being a GoD to be reckoned with, unlike manga berrus we know is already top 2.

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:29 pm

Son-Kakaroto wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Son-Kakaroto wrote: Berrus is top 2 gods, while anime berrus is middle of pack and nothing to talk about.
How did you come to that conclusion?
Anime berrus is already weaker then belmod, and no feats show or imply him being a GoD to be reckoned with, unlike manga berrus we know is already top 2.
Losing in an arm wrestling =/= weaker than opponent in combat.

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by Son-Kakaroto » Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:34 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Son-Kakaroto wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: How did you come to that conclusion?
Anime berrus is already weaker then belmod, and no feats show or imply him being a GoD to be reckoned with, unlike manga berrus we know is already top 2.
Losing in an arm wrestling =/= weaker than opponent in combat.
Hey, there you go. Proves manga berrus could be number 1. Anime berrus just dosen't have feats, statement or any real good evidence he's a force among the gods. He has evidence to the contray, like the whis statement even if it is small, as well as sweating at ssb kaioken x 10. Manga berrus one shotted mssj blue vegeta (who's merged zamsu tier) when getting serious. Manga berrus>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anime berrus.

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:09 pm

Son-Kakaroto wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Son-Kakaroto wrote: Anime berrus is already weaker then belmod, and no feats show or imply him being a GoD to be reckoned with, unlike manga berrus we know is already top 2.
Losing in an arm wrestling =/= weaker than opponent in combat.
Hey, there you go. Proves manga berrus could be number 1. Anime berrus just dosen't have feats, statement or any real good evidence he's a force among the gods. He has evidence to the contray, like the whis statement even if it is small, as well as sweating at ssb kaioken x 10. Manga berrus one shotted mssj blue vegeta (who's merged zamsu tier) when getting serious. Manga berrus>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anime berrus.
A character's strength is not solely defined by "feats".

You've provided nothing substantial to support your case, beyond Beerus' understandable shock at seeing the Goku stack Kaioken on top of Super Saiyan Blue (which he later stated wouldn't have been any trouble for him in battle).

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by Son-Kakaroto » Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:25 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Son-Kakaroto wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: Losing in an arm wrestling =/= weaker than opponent in combat.
Hey, there you go. Proves manga berrus could be number 1. Anime berrus just dosen't have feats, statement or any real good evidence he's a force among the gods. He has evidence to the contray, like the whis statement even if it is small, as well as sweating at ssb kaioken x 10. Manga berrus one shotted mssj blue vegeta (who's merged zamsu tier) when getting serious. Manga berrus>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anime berrus.
A character's strength is not solely defined by "feats".

You've provided nothing substantial to support your case, beyond Beerus' understandable shock at seeing the Goku stack Kaioken on top of Super Saiyan Blue (which he later stated wouldn't have been any trouble for him in battle).
It's really this simple, there is evidence berrus is a boss in the manga and non to the contrary. There is no evidence berrus in the anime is anything special, while small hints that he is not. Simple, there, based on what we know - manga berrus is at least more impressive then anime berrus.

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by BWri » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:12 am

Son-Kakaroto wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Son-Kakaroto wrote: Hey, there you go. Proves manga berrus could be number 1. Anime berrus just dosen't have feats, statement or any real good evidence he's a force among the gods. He has evidence to the contray, like the whis statement even if it is small, as well as sweating at ssb kaioken x 10. Manga berrus one shotted mssj blue vegeta (who's merged zamsu tier) when getting serious. Manga berrus>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anime berrus.
A character's strength is not solely defined by "feats".

You've provided nothing substantial to support your case, beyond Beerus' understandable shock at seeing the Goku stack Kaioken on top of Super Saiyan Blue (which he later stated wouldn't have been any trouble for him in battle).
It's really this simple, there is evidence berrus is a boss in the manga and non to the contrary. There is no evidence berrus in the anime is anything special, while small hints that he is not. Simple, there, based on what we know - manga berrus is at least more impressive then anime berrus.
I think the case you've provided is interesting but everyone in the manga is overall weaker than the anime. Manga Beerus would be even more flabberghasted by Anime Goku's SSBKKx10 than Anime Beerus was.

You've given me pause to think a bit more about it though. How does Full Power SSB compared to SSKKx10 in your opinion? Personally, I'll admit that I'm not exactly sure how this form would fair in the anime. I'm still absolutely wedded to the idea that the overall power levels in the anime are absurdly higher. For instance, anime Hit would absolutely murder Manga Hit, no question about it.
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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by Faisal Shourov » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:05 pm

The manga is just promotional material, canon but unnecessary at the end.
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by dragon boss z » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:38 pm

Zephyr wrote:I don't look at the manga as a standalone thing. I view it more as a supplement to Toriyama's films. When viewed that way, it's perfectly complete (if a tad too brisk with its arc finales). If viewed entirely on its own, though, it's definitely incomplete.
This. The only reason the Beerus arc was even in was so manga only fans wouldn't be completely lost.
Basically the manga canon should go
original manga>BoG movie/manga arc version>RoF>Super manga up to ToP>Broly movie>new arc of Super manga

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by sangofe » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:06 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:It's skipping story arcs, so yeah it feels incomplete.
But we don't know that Broly will be a story arc in the upcoming movie.

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by batistabus » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:03 pm

I don't think so. To me, the films are the definitive versions of those stories. Toriyama contributed heavily, so I see no reason to re-do them. Likewise, I see the manga as the definitive version of the other stories (or at least closer than the anime). With the way media works these days, I see no problem with a story that is told cross-platform.

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by PFM18 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:06 pm

batistabus wrote:I don't think so. To me, the films are the definitive versions of those stories. Toriyama contributed heavily, so I see no reason to re-do them. Likewise, I see the manga as the definitive version of the other stories (or at least closer than the anime). With the way media works these days, I see no problem with a story that is told cross-platform.
But the movie versions heavily contradict the DBS manga.

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by batistabus » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:23 pm

PFM18 wrote:But the movie versions heavily contradict the DBS manga.
1. I don't agree. This is certainly not the case for DBS: Broly, which does not include SSBKK/SSBE.
2. Even if this was the case, I feel that the storytelling and presentation of the manga is more inline with the films/original manga/Toriyama's style. The story is more lean, quirky, fun, and thoughtful. That is what is most important to me.

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Re: Does the Super Manga feel incomplete?

Post by PFM18 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:51 pm

batistabus wrote:
PFM18 wrote:But the movie versions heavily contradict the DBS manga.
1. I don't agree. This is certainly not the case for DBS: Broly, which does not include SSBKK/SSBE.
2. Even if this was the case, I feel that the storytelling and presentation of the manga is more inline with the films/original manga/Toriyama's style. The story is more lean, quirky, fun, and thoughtful. That is what is most important to me.
This isn't a manga vs anime comparison. You said that "the movies are the definitive versions", but if you go by the BoG movie and not the BoG arc in the manga, it heavily contradicts things. I don't know what you're really supposed to do with the RoF story in the manga.

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