Thoughts on why they might not have included Ultra Instinct in the DBS movie

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Thoughts on why they might not have included Ultra Instinct in the DBS movie

Post by Lujin_16 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:58 am

I guess because Ultra Instinct plays a important role in the Series if Super comes back and Gogeta not it's just for nostalgia and only for the movie :twisted:

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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:08 pm

Its because its been established as a REALLY hard thing to maintain and earn, let alone be easily used as Super Saiyan. So its for the best that alternate ways of defeating enemies are used.
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It's ill-fitting for me. Dragon Ball is not a bedtime story. And "laid-back old man" is not how I would describe Yanami's narrator. To me he sounds like the kind of uncle that shows up to the birthday party with loads of fruit punch soda and stuffs himself with pizza and ice cream, or takes you out on his boat at the lake in the summer and goes skinny dipping or something.
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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:25 pm

It's not in the movie because Bandai wanted to sell Gogeta merchandise in all likelihood. It's a shame. I would've loved to see Gokuu, Vegeta and Freeza use it to defeat Broli.
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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:16 pm

I would hate to see multiple characters use Ultra Instinct.

I would have loved for ultra instinct to appear in the movie though. Moreso than Gogeta.
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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:12 pm

I assume the reason it doesn’t appear in the movie is because they’re trying to maintain its status as this special power that isn’t like all the other power ups that we’ve gotten so far. Basically, my impression is that they don’t want to make UI just another transformation.

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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by AnimeNation101 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:46 pm

JulieYBM wrote:It's not in the movie because Bandai wanted to sell Gogeta merchandise in all likelihood. It's a shame. I would've loved to see Gokuu, Vegeta and Freeza use it to defeat Broli.
Thats illogical overkill though. Why would they need 3 UI characters to take down Broly. That would prob put him around Angel level or some shit.

I’m glad UI wasn’t used. I dont want it to become the next SSB where Goku uses UI for everything including stupid reasons like fighting Krillin. Lets keep SSB as Goku’s main form with UI being an unreliable wild-card until the end of Super in which Goku masters it.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:53 pm

I fully expected both Gogeta and UI to appear. The two of them fuse, we get the big fight and it's still not enough. They after they defuse, a drained Goku taps back into and is able to end Brolys rampage

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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:54 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:It's not in the movie because Bandai wanted to sell Gogeta merchandise in all likelihood. It's a shame. I would've loved to see Gokuu, Vegeta and Freeza use it to defeat Broli.
Thats illogical overkill though. Why would they need 3 UI characters to take down Broly. That would prob put him around Angel level or some shit.

I’m glad UI wasn’t used. I dont want it to become the next SSB where Goku uses UI for everything including stupid reasons like fighting Krillin. Lets keep SSB as Goku’s main form with UI being an unreliable wild-card until the end of Super in which Goku masters it.
Because it's better to keep Gokuu behind foes. Three exhausted Omen users defeating Broli combines teamwork with character development.
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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by AnimeNation101 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:21 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:It's not in the movie because Bandai wanted to sell Gogeta merchandise in all likelihood. It's a shame. I would've loved to see Gokuu, Vegeta and Freeza use it to defeat Broli.
Thats illogical overkill though. Why would they need 3 UI characters to take down Broly. That would prob put him around Angel level or some shit.

I’m glad UI wasn’t used. I dont want it to become the next SSB where Goku uses UI for everything including stupid reasons like fighting Krillin. Lets keep SSB as Goku’s main form with UI being an unreliable wild-card until the end of Super in which Goku masters it.
Because it's better to keep Gokuu behind foes. Three exhausted Omen users defeating Broli combines teamwork with character development.
Well first off, being exhausted shouldn’t make any impact on being in UI. Ultra Instinct makes your body move without thinking instinctively so being tired or energetic shouldn’t really matter.

3 exhausted Omen users = the same 3 omen users that aren’t exhausted

Thats how i understand it at least.

And if thats the case, that would still make Broly unnecessarily op. 2 UI Omen’s is good enough.

As i said before, 3 UI omens is illogical overkill.

Either 1 UI character, 2 UI Omen characters, or Blue Gogeta would be fine. And I'm glad they went with Gogeta
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:02 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote: Thats illogical overkill though. Why would they need 3 UI characters to take down Broly. That would prob put him around Angel level or some shit.

I’m glad UI wasn’t used. I dont want it to become the next SSB where Goku uses UI for everything including stupid reasons like fighting Krillin. Lets keep SSB as Goku’s main form with UI being an unreliable wild-card until the end of Super in which Goku masters it.
Because it's better to keep Gokuu behind foes. Three exhausted Omen users defeating Broli combines teamwork with character development.
Well first off, being exhausted shouldn’t make any impact on being in UI. Ultra Instinct makes your body move without thinking instinctively so being tired or energetic shouldn’t really matter.

3 exhausted Omen users = the same 3 omen users that aren’t exhausted

Thats how i understand it at least.

And if thats the case, that would still make Broly unnecessarily op. 2 UI Omen’s is good enough.

As i said before, 3 UI omens is illogical overkill.

Either 1 UI character, 2 UI Omen characters, or Blue Gogeta would be fine. And I'm glad they went with Gogeta
Just because the body moves it doesn't mean that it's going to move well or that the brain won't suffer fatigue. Gokuu kept collapsing in fatigue after using Omen against Jiren. The same should apply here. The important thing to do is make the battle intense--the best way to do that is putting Gokuu and friends at a disadvantage. Gokuu can be put at a disadvantage by being overpowered and injured by Broli before finally achieving the Secret of Selfishness again but not being in perfect condition so that means to defeat Broli he needs the help of others. It's best to not let the audience know whether Gokuu at full power can defeat Broli on his own. Never let the audience know conclusively who is stronger between Gokuu and a main foe.
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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by AnimeNation101 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:04 am

JulieYBM wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
Because it's better to keep Gokuu behind foes. Three exhausted Omen users defeating Broli combines teamwork with character development.
Well first off, being exhausted shouldn’t make any impact on being in UI. Ultra Instinct makes your body move without thinking instinctively so being tired or energetic shouldn’t really matter.

3 exhausted Omen users = the same 3 omen users that aren’t exhausted

Thats how i understand it at least.

And if thats the case, that would still make Broly unnecessarily op. 2 UI Omen’s is good enough.

As i said before, 3 UI omens is illogical overkill.

Either 1 UI character, 2 UI Omen characters, or Blue Gogeta would be fine. And I'm glad they went with Gogeta
Just because the body moves it doesn't mean that it's going to move well or that the brain won't suffer fatigue. Gokuu kept collapsing in fatigue after using Omen against Jiren. The same should apply here. The important thing to do is make the battle intense--the best way to do that is putting Gokuu and friends at a disadvantage. Gokuu can be put at a disadvantage by being overpowered and injured by Broli before finally achieving the Secret of Selfishness again but not being in perfect condition so that means to defeat Broli he needs the help of others. It's best to not let the audience know whether Gokuu at full power can defeat Broli on his own. Never let the audience know conclusively who is stronger between Gokuu and a main foe.
Its Ultra Instinct. You dont NEED your brain since your body moves instinctively.

Fatigue is all in the brain. UI doesn’t use the brain to work and therefore fatigue won’t affect the form. Same with pain. Fatigue and pain are just stuff the brain does to let you know your body can’t handle anymore of something and needs rest or healing. Narutally UI also wouldn’t be affected by the pain of any injuries either as it wouldn't be affected by fatigue.

Also, why are you using the term Secret of Selfishness? Isn’t that just a weird English translation? No one really uses that term.


Bottom line, as I'm saying for the 3rd time, 3 UI Omens are illogical overkill for Broly or make Broly seem too powerful. Things like pain and fatigue dont have any affect on the performance of a character using UI based on what has been said about the form.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:24 am

AnimeNation101 wrote: Its Ultra Instinct. You dont NEED your brain since your body moves instinctively.

Fatigue is all in the brain. UI doesn’t use the brain to work and therefore fatigue won’t affect the form. Same with pain. Fatigue and pain are just stuff the brain does to let you know your body can’t handle anymore of something and needs rest or healing. Narutally UI also wouldn’t be affected by the pain of any injuries either as it wouldn't be affected by fatigue.

Also, why are you using the term Secret of Selfishness? Isn’t that just a weird English translation? No one really uses that term.


Bottom line, as I'm saying for the 3rd time, 3 UI Omens are illogical overkill for Broly or make Broly seem too powerful. Things like pain and fatigue dont have any affect on the performance of a character using UI based on what has been said about the form.
The brain doesn't stop being tired while you're running around, reacting at the drop of a dime. The body doesn't just recover while running around, reacting. We actively see in the series Gokuu's body is unable to handle the Secret of Selfishness. It'll be even worse off if he's already injured and tired out.

Gogeta is overkill and not a character the audience is invested in seeing develop or succeed in an established goal. One user of the Secret of Selfishness is overkill. Three tired and injured guys attaining and employing a sliver of the Secret of Selfishness and working in sync to immobilize Broli together because they are in no condition to do it alone is a better outcome that fulfills continued progress of the form, allows more than one fighter to land the finishing blow, allows the dynamic of Gokuu, Vegeta and Freeza to take spotlight in a battle, further forges a bond between Freeza and Gokuu's gang and allows for Freeza to be involved in resolving a mess he himself helped to create.
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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by Bergamo » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:30 am

AnimeNation101 wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote: Well first off, being exhausted shouldn’t make any impact on being in UI. Ultra Instinct makes your body move without thinking instinctively so being tired or energetic shouldn’t really matter.

3 exhausted Omen users = the same 3 omen users that aren’t exhausted

Thats how i understand it at least.

And if thats the case, that would still make Broly unnecessarily op. 2 UI Omen’s is good enough.

As i said before, 3 UI omens is illogical overkill.

Either 1 UI character, 2 UI Omen characters, or Blue Gogeta would be fine. And I'm glad they went with Gogeta
Just because the body moves it doesn't mean that it's going to move well or that the brain won't suffer fatigue. Gokuu kept collapsing in fatigue after using Omen against Jiren. The same should apply here. The important thing to do is make the battle intense--the best way to do that is putting Gokuu and friends at a disadvantage. Gokuu can be put at a disadvantage by being overpowered and injured by Broli before finally achieving the Secret of Selfishness again but not being in perfect condition so that means to defeat Broli he needs the help of others. It's best to not let the audience know whether Gokuu at full power can defeat Broli on his own. Never let the audience know conclusively who is stronger between Gokuu and a main foe.
Its Ultra Instinct. You dont NEED your brain since your body moves instinctively.

Fatigue is all in the brain. UI doesn’t use the brain to work and therefore fatigue won’t affect the form. Same with pain. Fatigue and pain are just stuff the brain does to let you know your body can’t handle anymore of something and needs rest or healing. Narutally UI also wouldn’t be affected by the pain of any injuries either as it wouldn't be affected by fatigue.

Also, why are you using the term Secret of Selfishness? Isn’t that just a weird English translation? No one really uses that term.


Bottom line, as I'm saying for the 3rd time, 3 UI Omens are illogical overkill for Broly or make Broly seem too powerful. Things like pain and fatigue dont have any affect on the performance of a character using UI based on what has been said about the form.
In Dragon Ball the characters have a finite amount of ki, so stamina and fatigue aren't 100% mental factors. Vegeta used so much ki again to Gohan that he could literally no longer even fly. It's hard to argue that something like that isn't concrete.

Also, in Migatte no Gokui, Migatte can mean selfish even though it is intended to mean, "of the body's own accord," contextually. Gokui can mean, "secret technique" or, "extreme thoughts/mind."

You can translate it as "Ultra Instinct", "Self Movement Technique", "Hard to Use", etc, but out of the many different ways you can translate it, Secret of Selfishness is the most nonsensical. It's like translating Piccolo as Piccoro, or Raditz as Laditz.

I definitely agree that that person is only using that translation to try to sound cultured or elitist. It could be that they really do think that's the best translation, but they should really do their research.
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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:47 am

Bergamo wrote:I definitely agree that that person is only using that translation to try to sound cultured or elitist. It could be that they really do think that's the best translation, but they should really do their research.
If I were trying to be elitist, my dear friend with 958 posts on a forum dedicated to a Japanese comics and cartoon children's franchise, I would run around mentioning and decrying other users' use of one translation/name change over my own. Instead, I opt to merely ignore silliness of a sour sort and focus my efforts on subjects of substance I actually give a poop about.

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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by zarmack » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:54 am

To avoid over-exposure.

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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by Kataphrut » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:34 am

Because Toriyama wrote the movie and I don't think he knows what it is.

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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by Xeogran » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:58 am

MKCSTEALTH wrote:I fully expected both Gogeta and UI to appear. The two of them fuse, we get the big fight and it's still not enough. They after they defuse, a drained Goku taps back into and is able to end Brolys rampage
That would be boring and stale. I'm glad this no. 1 predictable scenario didn't happen.

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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by AnimeNation101 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:33 am

JulieYBM wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote: Its Ultra Instinct. You dont NEED your brain since your body moves instinctively.

Fatigue is all in the brain. UI doesn’t use the brain to work and therefore fatigue won’t affect the form. Same with pain. Fatigue and pain are just stuff the brain does to let you know your body can’t handle anymore of something and needs rest or healing. Narutally UI also wouldn’t be affected by the pain of any injuries either as it wouldn't be affected by fatigue.

Also, why are you using the term Secret of Selfishness? Isn’t that just a weird English translation? No one really uses that term.


Bottom line, as I'm saying for the 3rd time, 3 UI Omens are illogical overkill for Broly or make Broly seem too powerful. Things like pain and fatigue dont have any affect on the performance of a character using UI based on what has been said about the form.
The brain doesn't stop being tired while you're running around, reacting at the drop of a dime. The body doesn't just recover while running around, reacting. We actively see in the series Gokuu's body is unable to handle the Secret of Selfishness. It'll be even worse off if he's already injured and tired out.

Gogeta is overkill and not a character the audience is invested in seeing develop or succeed in an established goal. One user of the Secret of Selfishness is overkill. Three tired and injured guys attaining and employing a sliver of the Secret of Selfishness and working in sync to immobilize Broli together because they are in no condition to do it alone is a better outcome that fulfills continued progress of the form, allows more than one fighter to land the finishing blow, allows the dynamic of Gokuu, Vegeta and Freeza to take spotlight in a battle, further forges a bond between Freeza and Gokuu's gang and allows for Freeza to be involved in resolving a mess he himself helped to create.
The brain cant even get tired. Fatigue and pain are just feelings created by the brain to help preserve your body. And since UI doesn’t use thinking to move, feelings like pain and fatigue dont affect the performance of someone using UI. Its just logic.


If some is tried or injured, logically, as soon as they use UI, being tired or in pain won’t affect how their body moves instinctively since your body won’t be listening to the signals your brain gives. And as far as we know, you dont need ki to use UI either so being low on key isn’t a valid handicap either. And again, no one uses the term Secret of Selfishness. Call the ability by its official name.

So since being injured, tired, or even ki drained (somewhat) doesn’t matter, 3 UI Omen users is again, illogical overkill or it makes Broly seem way to powerful
Bergamo wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
Just because the body moves it doesn't mean that it's going to move well or that the brain won't suffer fatigue. Gokuu kept collapsing in fatigue after using Omen against Jiren. The same should apply here. The important thing to do is make the battle intense--the best way to do that is putting Gokuu and friends at a disadvantage. Gokuu can be put at a disadvantage by being overpowered and injured by Broli before finally achieving the Secret of Selfishness again but not being in perfect condition so that means to defeat Broli he needs the help of others. It's best to not let the audience know whether Gokuu at full power can defeat Broli on his own. Never let the audience know conclusively who is stronger between Gokuu and a main foe.
Its Ultra Instinct. You dont NEED your brain since your body moves instinctively.

Fatigue is all in the brain. UI doesn’t use the brain to work and therefore fatigue won’t affect the form. Same with pain. Fatigue and pain are just stuff the brain does to let you know your body can’t handle anymore of something and needs rest or healing. Narutally UI also wouldn’t be affected by the pain of any injuries either as it wouldn't be affected by fatigue.

Also, why are you using the term Secret of Selfishness? Isn’t that just a weird English translation? No one really uses that term.


Bottom line, as I'm saying for the 3rd time, 3 UI Omens are illogical overkill for Broly or make Broly seem too powerful. Things like pain and fatigue dont have any affect on the performance of a character using UI based on what has been said about the form.

And tats another thing, UI Omen is basically jus incomplete UI because you cant attack instinctively. Why would Goku be able to use UI again just to be able to only dodge instinctively again? Logically, next time he gains UI, he should be able to dodge and attack instinctively.

So if anything, it would be one UI Goku, and UI Omen Vegeta and Freeza. That’s EVEN MORE overkill.
In Dragon Ball the characters have a finite amount of ki, so stamina and fatigue aren't 100% mental factors. Vegeta used so much ki again to Gohan that he could literally no longer even fly. It's hard to argue that something like that isn't concrete.

Also, in Migatte no Gokui, Migatte can mean selfish even though it is intended to mean, "of the body's own accord," contextually. Gokui can mean, "secret technique" or, "extreme thoughts/mind."

You can translate it as "Ultra Instinct", "Self Movement Technique", "Hard to Use", etc, but out of the many different ways you can translate it, Secret of Selfishness is the most nonsensical. It's like translating Piccolo as Piccoro, or Raditz as Laditz.

I definitely agree that that person is only using that translation to try to sound cultured or elitist. It could be that they really do think that's the best translation, but they should really do their research.
I see your point about ki. Ki is not 100% mental. But from what we’ve heard about UI, unless I'm missing something, ki is really needed your body to instinctively dodge. So it seems to me that just like being in pain or fatigued, once UI is activated, being ki drained shouldn’t really have an affect on how you dodge instinctively or even attack instinctively
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by AnimeNation101 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:35 am

Xeogran wrote:
MKCSTEALTH wrote:I fully expected both Gogeta and UI to appear. The two of them fuse, we get the big fight and it's still not enough. They after they defuse, a drained Goku taps back into and is able to end Brolys rampage
That would be boring and stale. I'm glad this no. 1 predictable scenario didn't happen.
This, tbh

So now we avoided the most predictable and boring possibility while also preserving the reputation of the form of UI keeping it more special.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: there is reason why they don't introduced Ulta Instinct in the movie

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:57 am

AnimeNation101 wrote:
Xeogran wrote:
MKCSTEALTH wrote:I fully expected both Gogeta and UI to appear. The two of them fuse, we get the big fight and it's still not enough. They after they defuse, a drained Goku taps back into and is able to end Brolys rampage
That would be boring and stale. I'm glad this no. 1 predictable scenario didn't happen.
This, tbh

So now we avoided the most predictable and boring possibility while also preserving the reputation of the form of UI keeping it more special.

Believe me, I'm glad it happened too. I was fully expecting UI to be the finale of this for however brief. After the predictable ToP ending, I figured that's what we'd see. I'm glad Gogeta is enough to finish the fight and I'm glad Broly lives to fight another day. Hopefully, he'll play a role in the future and not just become a Tarble where he's referenced that "he's out there somewhere"

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