Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by mecha3000 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:39 pm

With Super seemingly returning or a new DB series coming, it's evident Dragon Ball will continue for a while longer, at least. So, I just wanted to throw a few suggestions for things DB NEEDS to do while it's still running. My number 1 is my MOST WANTED request and the others follow under it.

1. Uub: Super brought back Frieza, Future Trunks, and Android 17 (making the latter a breakout character in ways no one expected before). I always wanted 17 to come back, but no one really cared until Super made a big deal of him. I don't know if GT made people hesistant to 17 or fans just didn't care, but regardless - 17 is now a fan favorite character almost on a Vegeta or Piccolo level. Uub needs the same treatment. GT ruined Uub's potential (despite me liking GT) by relegating him as stalling plot device. Uub is Goku's hand-picked student and the physical representation of Goku's shift from student to master. Uub needs to become a Trunks/17-level breakout character. Super even mentions him throughout the anime and manga, so it seems to be setting up something. It's also unique to have a darker-skinned character be a main DB protagonist. Not trying to make this a discussion about diversity in cartoons, but that brings me to my next suggestion.

2. Pan and Bulla: Pan and Bulla have now both been born in Super, but are most likely going to be kept as babies for a while. Still, I believe it was a slight disservice to introduce female Super Saiyans/fusions in the form of Caulifla and Kale instead of Pan and Bulla, who were introduced first in the manga's history, but I forgive it since they come from a different universe. Still, the tingling sensation thing is stupid. Just flat out dumb. No one can defend that. I also, personally, do not exactly love Caulifla and Kale becuase I'd prefer for them to be more like how Cabba described Saiyans as hired protectors. Still, Pan and Bulla have a chance to become great characters who surpass Caulfila and Kale in popularity by doing unique things with them. Pan, Goku's granddaughter and Gohan's daughter?! Bulla, Bulma and Vegeta's daughter who unlike Pan is half-Saiyan and not 1/4th Saiyan and has the potential to go Super Saiyan while looking like BULMA, the series most prominent female protagonist?! Bulma as a Super Saiyan?! How is that not a golden idea just waiting to happen?

3. Introduce New Attacks: One of my main criticisms with DB as a late is the lack of new moves. When Goku learned Mafuba in DBS, I freaked out because it was something new (that's why it's my profile pic). I was so excited that I foolishly thought the games would start featuring Goku using Mafuba, which never came to be, but it was still nice to see Goku learn something new besides a power-up. Maybe, Goku can learn how to manifest ki into different forms or weapons, like a ki version of his Power Pole or like when he becomes Vegetto, an Energy Sword. Or even, a technique that shoots ki or energy from his feet like his Foot Kamehameha from DB. Just something different. I've been told Goku only learns from different masters and never creates moves of his own, so perhaps he learns something new from a new teacher or something?

4. Makaioshin: Toriyama introduced the concept of Makaioshin back in '09 I believe, but I don't think we've seen it introduced yet, at least not in the main DB canon. I know some might say Gods of Destruction already represent a Dark Kaioshin, but it's not really the same thing. Makaioshin are demons as far as I know, so it'd be interesting to see where demons fit alongside the gods in Dragon Ball.

5. Planet Sadala: We need to see Cabba's homeworld and how Vegeta (possibly even Goku) reacts to a Saiyan culture connected by a desire to uphold peace in the universe rather than unleash violence across it. Like I said above, I'm also not in love with Caulifla and Kale as characters so even ONE new female Super Saiyan who fits more in line with Cabba's character would be awesome. I'm sure this arc would also feature a new threat so I'm interested in what that would be.

That's all I can think of for now, but I'll probably think of more. Just so you guys know, my first two points don't mean Goku and Vegeta would no longer be the protagonists. Uub, Pan, and Bulla would just exist alongside them. Always seems to be a controversial thing so just wanted to clear that up. Thoughts? Any other suggestions?

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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by Lionel » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:38 pm

Contrary to what is likely the great majority of Dragon Ball fans, I'm not a big enthusiast of the hair scheme contrivance that was used to rationalise the power progression mechanics of the show. I think there's enough transformations to be satisfied with for awhile. Ultra Instinct has even been rendered to emulate characteristics of the Super Saiyan trope in order to make Goku visually stand out from his previous condition. Were the Saiyans in question going to receive some type of proactive role I would hope for them to somehow branch out and do something different so that they're not just hackneyed imitations of their elders. Take Pan for example, she was conceived by a magically transmuted Gohan who now is in the habit of boasting about his desire to grow strong through his own methods as "a human" instead of a Saiyan. You might say that such a statement is odd to make when it's primarily his Saiyan genetics that give him such a vast expanse of strength to work with. I would say that while such a fact is true, it can't be denied that the Elder Kaioshin's ritual amended the vehicle of his power usage and transformed it into something different than what Goku and Vegeta use. Toriyama could elaborate on that eccentricity and make Pan's road to greatness different than what her grandfather underwent. I think something like this could give Pan some much needed distinction from the procession of ever growing Saiyan mobs we have now.

Next to that, I agree with most of what you proposed. I don't know how Bra could be revamped to go her own path when she doesn't have the circumstantial quirks to use as the cornerstone of her fighting character. Speaking truthfully, I'm wondering if #18's genetically modified person couldn't have left a lasting impact on Marron. Perhaps we aught to look into her potential since the cyborgs are noted for being major powerhouses with considerable room for improvement. It could give the human race an injection of some much needed viability after having been discarded as legitimate aspiring mainstays of the script. Sure there's some genetics modification, but the claim can be made that Marron is even more human than her mother or uncle since she wouldn't have any of the cybernetic implants that they had forcibly inserted into their persons.

Adding to that note, Uub became a grossly mishandled basketcase in GT, as you mentioned. It's like the writing staff over at Toei didn't know what to do with him without compromising this persistent obsession with having Goku stand as the shining central pillar of plot progression and general proactivity. If they're going to continue with keeping Goku as the climactic queen piece on the board then I'd be a bit concerned about the likelihood of the writers falling into familiar trappings. Uub needs some major revamping if he's going to become a true prodigy of Goku's. I know some people don't like the references to DB Multiverse, but I think Salagir's Uub had a closer impression on what the right idea should be for Uub. Granted, it's far from perfect. One of the most obvious pitfalls here is the need to match the Saiyan transformations. How do you do that? Well there's one method that's so painfully obvious and has been speculated on for so long now. Kaioken! Build up on it from there -- ascend to higher multipliers of the technique and acclimate to what you already have. It's borderline depressing how such an incredibly valuable technique gets discarded so easily.

Agree with the need for original, elaborate technique arrays. The show has homogenised its sample of fighting moves for so long now that we sometimes quip about the unoriginality of Dragon Ball Z next to its predecessor. Super's anime has tried making some inroads to allay this concern and it should be credited for the effort. On the other hand, the manga could stand to do a lot more.

Should the Z-cast ever make a visit over to their neighbouring universe then I would want the opportunity to be used by expanding on the mythology, lore and inner workings of Universe 6 as a whole. Don't relegate things to just the Saiyans. They can be an important hallmark of the journey and it would make sense considering their position as universal defenders, but just give us the chance to see other planets and characters, especially the Universe 6 Namekian race. I'm awfully curious to know if they have Dragon Balls of their own and how they're different from the Namekians we all know from Universe 7.
Last edited by Lionel on Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by Akamay » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:42 pm

Well, assuming that they would go past the end of the original manga/end of Z, it wouldn't really be a surprise to see Uub, Pan and Bulla.

But if I were to choose, I'd rather have Goten and Trunks do something that would be a bit more serious.
Right now all they have is Gotenks and all the joke stuff "because they are kids". It'd be nice to have them do something.
I mean, yeah, Kid Trunks got to interact with Future Trunks and that was nice, but Goten still has nothing going for him.

It would be cool if Goku and Vegeta brought their families with them if they visited Planet Sadala, maybe have the kids and their wifes interacting with other Saiyans ?
Also, assuming that they don't completely ignore what happens on the Broly movie, it would also be a good way to show how Universes 6 and 7 are different.
As far as I know, they will show small glimpses of what Planet Vegeta was, it'd be cool to have a point of comparison between universes.

I was also kinda hoping that would explore a bit of the characters that died in the series a bit more.
Not necessarily bringing them back to life, but things like other people remembering them, maybe ?

Vegeta lived with Nappa and Raditz for most of his life. Given how much Goku has shown him that low class warriors have some value, maybe we could hear stuff that they did in the past with Vegeta expressing something other than contempt towards them ?
Dive a little bit into how Freeza's army worked ? Show the Ginyu force interacting with Vegeta before he could kill them all ? That could retroactively make Vegeta's killing spree on Namek more satisfying.
Maybe have Cabbe ask Vegeta what happened to the Saiyans of Universe 7 since they were so different.

It would also be neat to have maybe Master Roshi tell Goku about his Grandpa Gohan a bit more and the days that he trained him and King Ox.
Maybe have Goten ask King Ox about his youth and then he tells the whole story to Goten ?

Heck, having Vegeta and Goku being knocked down a bit from their high horses since they have been bad parents for a filler episode or two even.

Maybe have someone acknowledge Launch ?

Just because Dragon Ball Super is looking into expanding the "universe" it doesn't mean that all stories should be focused on something entirely new.
As long as it's new information for the audience, it would be neat.

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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:00 am

I think at this point the original ending of Z has been retconned. I believe we will meet Uub at some point in a new series. They're just trying to do as much as they can prior to that happening.

Though Pan seemingly did not age, Bulla has an older design in the Broly movie from the character sheets we've seen. I think we need both child Pan and Bulla as well as a teen Trunks and Goten. Throw Gohan in the mix and we can get a new generation of fighters with Gohan, Vegeta, and Goku as masters.

As for Sadala, that is inevitable. I think it's also inevitable we will see the other universes in some media (either anime, video game, or Heroes) and potentially the other 6 previously erased universes.

This new goat villain of the new Manga arc could always be presented as some Makaioshin and use that. I feel that's the safest bet. And with how they're making movie characters canonized now perhaps the likes of video game characters could be added or referenced (like Janemba and Hatchiyak were with Aniraza)

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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by zarmack » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:15 am

1. Make the series take place after the end of Z. Big time.

2. No more tournament arcs. Seriously.

3. Have the Z-crew split up and explore each of the universes in pairs, with Goku, Vegeta & Broly going to U6 Planet Sadala on another quest with Caulifla, Cabba & Kale. This could expand on all of their characters, as well as the lore about Yamoshi, Shallot and Cumber (if they wish to canonize the latter 2).

4. An arc involving Android 21, with a focus on Androids 17 & 18. This could also be an opportunity to bring back Cell (since his origin ties in with A21's).

5. An arc involving Freeza trying to overthrow all the GoDs, Angels & Zeno. This could also tie into a potential Divine War/Multiversal Crisis saga which could serve as the grand finale of the DB Franchise.

6. A Pride Trooper saga, with a focus on Gohan/Great Saiyaman & Jiren. This would be an opportunity to expand on Jiren's and Toppo's characters & shed light on the evil doer that kill Jiren's family.

7. An arc involving Zalama and the lore surrounding him, with a focus on Piccolo.

8. An arc involving Uub and the real origins of Majin Buu.

9. An arc involving Tapion. He could be reintroduced as the 1st mortal time-traveler from U12. This could also be an excuse for Future Trunks & Future Mai to appear again.

10. A re-imaging of the Shadow Dragons.

11. An arc involving the Tuffles and their history with the saiyans. This could be an opportunity to reintroduce Baby.

12. And finally, an arc involving Hit and his backstory.

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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:20 am

1-Air on The UK. Seriously its fucking unfair to them that they dont get to watch it on TV. EVERY SINGLE MAJOR COUNTRY IN EUROPE has been covered! Get Dragon Ball back on TV!

2-Continue as a series so it continues to sell to TV Stations. Seriously.

That's it for me. Super is too far gone narratively for me to want something out of it that way.
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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by supersaiyanZero » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:40 am

Hire somebody who knows how to write a damn.

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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by Grimlock » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:17 am

mecha3000 wrote:5. Planet Sadala: We need to see Cabba's homeworld and how Vegeta (possibly even Goku) reacts to a Saiyan culture connected by a desire to uphold peace in the universe rather than unleash violence across it. Like I said above, I'm also not in love with Caulifla and Kale as characters so even ONE new female Super Saiyan who fits more in line with Cabba's character would be awesome. I'm sure this arc would also feature a new threat so I'm interested in what that would be.
There is a certain medium that is about to do that. :)
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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by Majin Buu » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:28 am

zarmack wrote:1. Make the series take place after the end of Z. Big time.
Exactly. Super has been wishy-washy in wanting to be a continuation but not wanting to go beyond the actual end of the manga/Z. If it wants to be an actual continuation like GT was, it has to start going beyond the manga/Z like GT did and stop relying on the past for safe nostalgia pandering.

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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by mecha3000 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:16 am

Grimlock wrote:
mecha3000 wrote:5. Planet Sadala: We need to see Cabba's homeworld and how Vegeta (possibly even Goku) reacts to a Saiyan culture connected by a desire to uphold peace in the universe rather than unleash violence across it. Like I said above, I'm also not in love with Caulifla and Kale as characters so even ONE new female Super Saiyan who fits more in line with Cabba's character would be awesome. I'm sure this arc would also feature a new threat so I'm interested in what that would be.
There is a certain medium that is about to do that. :)
Are you assuming that or do you have a source? Just wondering because I don't know what you mean.

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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by Cetra » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:20 am

Show a failed wish of Pilaf, Shu and Mai that ends up with them being wished too old.

Then play this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMXIU3EyO9I

To be continued ...

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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by Grimlock » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:23 pm

mecha3000 wrote:Are you assuming that or do you have a source? Just wondering because I don't know what you mean.
I would make you guess, giving you this tip: "it is a medium that actually explores and expands greatly the Dragon Ball world and it does not waste time with unnecessary retellings nor with boring tournaments", but you'd still probably not figure so... It's Dragon Ball Heroes, it will depict Vegeta going to Universe 6 (we don't know if Goku will later on).
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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by PFM18 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:35 pm

Grimlock wrote:
mecha3000 wrote:Are you assuming that or do you have a source? Just wondering because I don't know what you mean.
I would make you guess, giving you this tip: "it is a medium that actually explores and expands greatly the Dragon Ball world and it does not waste time with unnecessary retellings nor with boring tournaments", but you'd still probably not figure so... It's Dragon Ball Heroes, it will depict Vegeta going to Universe 6 (we don't know if Goku will later on).
We are talking about an actual series/new series not an arcade game. This thread is not meant for arcade game stories or any of that kind of stuff.

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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by AnimeNation101 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:37 pm

What Super needs to do is not keep letting SDBH take all of the ideas it (imo) should have already used.

People are already accusing DBS of copying SDBH just because the name of the new arc and the Prison Planet Arc sound somewhat similar.

And now that in SDBH, Vegeta from the DBS timeline seems to be going to Sadala, if DBS does that same kinda arc, people will think that that also feels like DBS is copying Heroes. And tbh, it kinda is copying SDBH at that point unless they do something completely different.

And even though Heroes hasn;t done Makaioshin, there demon realm stuff is very similar. So if DBS tries to do something with makaioshin and the demon realm, people will see it as copying Heroes.

And now Heroes is even tackling Sadala and ancient saiyan lore before DBS, even introducing stuff into the ancient saiyan lore like Cumber being an evil ancient saiyan. And if Cumber really does turn out to be one of the saiyans that fought Yamoshi, that would make it that much worse if DBS tackles the sadalian lore with Yamoshi and DOESN’T have Cumber as one of the ancient saiyans that fought Yamoshi. Its like SDBH is leaving its mark on plot points so that they are untouchable by DBS as soon as SDBH does something with the plot points.


Sooner of later, SDBH will use the “Jiren’s Demon evil-doer” plot before DBS and that will be untouchable too.

And it seems like SDBH is gonna have a war of some sort. If they end up having a Multiverse war before DBS, thats gonna get me pissed.

Could just be my feelings though. Again, i have nothing against SDBH. Rant over.
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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by PFM18 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:45 pm

mecha3000 wrote:With Super seemingly returning or a new DB series coming, it's evident Dragon Ball will continue for a while longer, at least. So, I just wanted to throw a few suggestions for things DB NEEDS to do while it's still running. My number 1 is my MOST WANTED request and the others follow under it.

1. Uub: Super brought back Frieza, Future Trunks, and Android 17 (making the latter a breakout character in ways no one expected before). I always wanted 17 to come back, but no one really cared until Super made a big deal of him. I don't know if GT made people hesistant to 17 or fans just didn't care, but regardless - 17 is now a fan favorite character almost on a Vegeta or Piccolo level. Uub needs the same treatment. GT ruined Uub's potential (despite me liking GT) by relegating him as stalling plot device. Uub is Goku's hand-picked student and the physical representation of Goku's shift from student to master. Uub needs to become a Trunks/17-level breakout character. Super even mentions him throughout the anime and manga, so it seems to be setting up something. It's also unique to have a darker-skinned character be a main DB protagonist. Not trying to make this a discussion about diversity in cartoons, but that brings me to my next suggestion.

2. Pan and Bulla: Pan and Bulla have now both been born in Super, but are most likely going to be kept as babies for a while. Still, I believe it was a slight disservice to introduce female Super Saiyans/fusions in the form of Caulifla and Kale instead of Pan and Bulla, who were introduced first in the manga's history, but I forgive it since they come from a different universe. Still, the tingling sensation thing is stupid. Just flat out dumb. No one can defend that. I also, personally, do not exactly love Caulifla and Kale becuase I'd prefer for them to be more like how Cabba described Saiyans as hired protectors. Still, Pan and Bulla have a chance to become great characters who surpass Caulfila and Kale in popularity by doing unique things with them. Pan, Goku's granddaughter and Gohan's daughter?! Bulla, Bulma and Vegeta's daughter who unlike Pan is half-Saiyan and not 1/4th Saiyan and has the potential to go Super Saiyan while looking like BULMA, the series most prominent female protagonist?! Bulma as a Super Saiyan?! How is that not a golden idea just waiting to happen?

3. Introduce New Attacks: One of my main criticisms with DB as a late is the lack of new moves. When Goku learned Mafuba in DBS, I freaked out because it was something new (that's why it's my profile pic). I was so excited that I foolishly thought the games would start featuring Goku using Mafuba, which never came to be, but it was still nice to see Goku learn something new besides a power-up. Maybe, Goku can learn how to manifest ki into different forms or weapons, like a ki version of his Power Pole or like when he becomes Vegetto, an Energy Sword. Or even, a technique that shoots ki or energy from his feet like his Foot Kamehameha from DB. Just something different. I've been told Goku only learns from different masters and never creates moves of his own, so perhaps he learns something new from a new teacher or something?

4. Makaioshin: Toriyama introduced the concept of Makaioshin back in '09 I believe, but I don't think we've seen it introduced yet, at least not in the main DB canon. I know some might say Gods of Destruction already represent a Dark Kaioshin, but it's not really the same thing. Makaioshin are demons as far as I know, so it'd be interesting to see where demons fit alongside the gods in Dragon Ball.

5. Planet Sadala: We need to see Cabba's homeworld and how Vegeta (possibly even Goku) reacts to a Saiyan culture connected by a desire to uphold peace in the universe rather than unleash violence across it. Like I said above, I'm also not in love with Caulifla and Kale as characters so even ONE new female Super Saiyan who fits more in line with Cabba's character would be awesome. I'm sure this arc would also feature a new threat so I'm interested in what that would be.

That's all I can think of for now, but I'll probably think of more. Just so you guys know, my first two points don't mean Goku and Vegeta would no longer be the protagonists. Uub, Pan, and Bulla would just exist alongside them. Always seems to be a controversial thing so just wanted to clear that up. Thoughts? Any other suggestions?

I agree with everything you said here.

I want to see more of what we saw in the DBS anime where Vegeta talks about not going down the same path as Goku and finding power his own way. I find that interesting considering Vegeta has been following Goku and using the same transformations, training techniques, etc up to this point.

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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by Grimlock » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:53 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:What Super needs to do is not keep letting SDBH take all of the ideas it (imo) should have already used..
You really think that's the problem and not the fact that it wasted too much time with unnecessary stuff?
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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by Forte224 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:25 pm

Pretty simple for me:

-Continue with the art/animation approach they're taking with the new movie

-Don't rely too heavily on the past/fan service

-Write a complete story, I don't want another Black arc ending that feels rushed and poorly thought out (I'd even be cool with a seasonal approach like MHA)

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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:29 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:What Super needs to do is not keep letting SDBH take all of the ideas it (imo) should have already used.
More like the whole DB non canon universe.

What I want from the new series is:
Good writing and all that comes with it so stuff like characterization, consistency, world building , etc.
Good to great animation and directing no reason for it not to have it.
More emphasis on martial arts as well as more in-depth expansion on Ki and learning techniques.
More quantifiable and consistent showings, these characters are minimum galaxy destroyers yet the battles look no different from anything in the DB or very earlier parts of DBZ.
Less concentration on Saiyans and more concentration on other races
New members for the Z fighters
More overarching story concepts
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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by AnimeNation101 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:34 pm

Grimlock wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:What Super needs to do is not keep letting SDBH take all of the ideas it (imo) should have already used..
You really think that's the problem and not the fact that it wasted too much time with unnecessary stuff?
What is and isn’t necessary in DBS’s case is subjective a lot of the time. For me, i find the retellings unnecessary but for others like Toriyama, they think its needed for those who haven’t seen the movies.

Anyhow, connecting to my problem of how SDBH is using all the plot points DBS should have been using, a huge problem is that they introduce potentially major plot points just to not use them. Super should be exploring more universes, using Jiren’s evil doer, going to Sadala, etc.

Also, less Tournaments, more villains.

Oh, and have arcs connect into one another like the Saiyan Saga did with the Namek saga and the Namek saga with the Cell Saga. And the Buu saga not connecting makes sense as they used the ol “time-skip” method.

Super’s arcs just feel so disconnected from one another.
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Re: Things Super or a new series NEEDS to do

Post by PFM18 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:17 pm

supersaiyanZero wrote:Hire somebody who knows how to write a damn.
If you're going to just constantly complain you might want to actually have substance in your complaints. Ya know, like forming an argument or just explaining yourself.

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