supersaiyanZero wrote:PFM18 wrote:
1. The entirety of the Zamasu arc and the ToP arcs look dramatically better than anything Z produced aesthetically. I don't see how this is even a discussion. Obviously, though, this is extremely subjective given we are talking about nothing but aesthetics.
This is such a joke. Muted, lifeless expressions, lack of any impact when characters get hit, the infamous "ATATATATA" which consisted of 2 looped frames of combatants throwing stiff punches at each other for eons to make up for a lack of choreography, recycled poses (not talking about recycled animation), lack of camera movement, etc. Sure, the Takahashi episodes looked nice (in large part because he decided to ignore the supervisor's character designs and base his own designs on the ones from Z) and so did the finale but to not see the decline in quality of animation is just downright lying. Even when Z's animation didn't have it's A team behind it, it still managed to be fluid, dynamic, and have a personality.
I frankly have no idea what you're talking about. The animation simply looks infinitely more fluid, the choreography is more dynamic, art is more detailed, it's just not even a comparison. I don't see how you can look at this objectively and come to this conclusion.
And what the fuck do you even mean by a "stiff" punch? How is one punch stiff and another isn't? Also, being "muted" has absolutely nothing to do with aesthetics. Being mute is an audio issue, not a visual one.
Oh, and my opinion is not "lying."
zarmack wrote:PFM18 wrote:zarmack wrote:
1. The only episodes of Super that look great visually are the Takahashi/Shida episodes, and they aren't that many in number. Though to be fair, Super's best animation beats out the best of the other 3 shows.
2. Your character development argument doesn't work, because character development for any recurring character in a series should only end when the series itself ends. It doesn't matter at what point in their lives the characters are, so its no excuse. Either way, no one in Super (nor even Early DB for that matter) got development on the level of say, Piccolo in the Saiyan and lesser extend Namek arc, Gohan from the beginning of Z to the Cell Games, Future Trunks in the Android arc, Vegeta in all of Z, etc.
3. The Buu Saga is easily overall better than most of Super (and all of GT) except the Black arc. It mainly the Gotenks/middle area of the saga that drags it down. Your right about the Cell saga though.
1. The entirety of the Zamasu arc and the ToP arcs look dramatically better than anything Z produced aesthetically. I don't see how this is even a discussion. Obviously, though, this is extremely subjective given we are talking about nothing but aesthetics.
2. That's literally my point. Super picks up a series that's intended to have ended, along with all of the corresponding character arcs. The character arcs shouldn't be judged by the shear amount in a vacuum, but rather what the story does with the "hand they are dealt" so to speak. In Super's case, they made the most out of mostly dealing with character arcs that were meant to be over. And to me, Vegeta's development, in the Buu arc at least, is extremely overrated and Super handles the continuation of his character arc way better.
3. The entire arc drags immensely. The story outstays it's welcome, especially when the main villain is painstakingly boring and just generally not compelling. During most of Buu's existence, he can't even form a coherent sentence, let alone form a menacing demeanor with substantive motivations or goals. He just kinda wants to aimlessly blow shit up, and it isn't exactly entertaining to watch it unfold.
1. This is so obviously wrong on so many levels, especially with how the Black arc falls apart in its last 4th of episodes.
2. Again, your character development argument makes little sense, and it sounds like excuse making for Super's lack of development for most the main cast. Either way, your post sounds you basically admitting that Z gave them more development than Super.
Buu saga Vegeta had more character development and better writing than literally every other character at any point in the franchise. It was the culmination of everything that happen with him since his debut reaching a boiling point, and him overcoming said boiling point then
finally becoming a true hero. The only reason why Super's & GT's versions of Vegeta even exist is because of his development in the Buu saga, so its laughable to say those versions are any better. Buu saga Goku is appealing (and underrated) for similar reasons.
3. Fat Buu & Super Buu had more personality and entertainment factor than Jiren.
1. The Black arc falling apart has nothing to do with visuals. This was a conversation of aesthetics not a writing one.
2. I don't think you even comprehended my argument considering your last sentence there. This isn't a matter of "admitting" one had more character development, it's about taking the development in context, as I explained in my post.
I didn't say "those versions" were better, considering that I never even fucking mentioned GT, so I have no idea how you managed to strawman me that hard on that one. You just kind of pretended as though I argued that GT's version was better.
Considering that you don't give a single example within that arc or even a description of Vegeta's development outside of just generic conjecture, I don't see this as refuting anything being said. Vegeta at the end of the Cell arc, realizes he cares about his son when he goes and attacks Cell knowing that he had no chance after seeing him being killed. Then the Buu arc opens, and Vegeta doesn't give a shit about Trunks all of a sudden, and only kind of uses him as a tool for bragging rights. Then, Vegeta "sacrifices" himself in a series where death means absolutely nothing, where the "sacrifice" accomplishes nothing and has no emotional weight considering everyone and their mother knew he would be revived. In the final fight of the arc, Vegeta shows time and time again against Kid Buu, that he isn't going to give up, no matter the odds. He just kept getting up and continuing to fight, no matter how beaten he got. He just wouldn't give up, and the scene actually displays this well. Then he turns around and goes on about seemingly giving up on surpassing his rival, when we had just established a moment prior that Vegeta never gives up. It's fucking retarded. Oh, and the last line of the manga Vegeta says "I will surpass you one day Kakarot" so it doesn't even stay consistent with later events. Vegeta's development in Super is simply more compelling IMO.
3. Even if that were true, it's a moot point because the ToP arc does not revolve around Jiren the same way the Buu arc does. Buu has way more focus, so his character has a much larger impact on the merit of the arc. The ToP arc has 79 other fighters playing a role, even if Jiren is the main antagonist.
But hey, at least this time you only used one logical fallacy instead of two.
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