Goku's continual evolution in Super.

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Goku's continual evolution in Super.

Post by MyNiggaGoku » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:31 pm

Note: This is for Super manga only, since the majority of my basis does not apply in the anime. I would like someone to do the same for the anime too, though.

Since the introduction of Beerus, the return of Freeza and the introduction of the Super Saiyan God & Blue forms, the main character of the franchise, Goku, has been aiming for new heights, trying to adapt to his newly found godly powers while facing new formidable opponents.

VS Hit

During the tournament between Universes 6 & 7, Goku comes up against Hit, a legendary assassin in his universe, who has unique Time Skipping abilities. Goku, geniously discovers the shortcomings of Hit's Time Skip by initially fighting him in base and Super Saiyan, but realizes that he needs his strongest forms against such a powerful opponent. Then he surprizes everyone by transforming into a Super Saiyan God, a form thought to be long gone. This is very important, since from this moment onwards,specific rules were established for the God forms, with Blue revealed to be a form that should be used carefully, since excessive usage makes the form considerably weaker and just being in the form consumes a lot of stamina [ that being the reason Vegeta lost against Hit, since he consecutively used the Blue form against him and Cabba].

Hit realizes that his Time Skip cannot be used on Goku anymore, since his God form is stronger and thus, he decided to use his full power, in order to get the upper hand on Goku and trap him into his Time Skip. While Goku is charging against him, Hit performs his technique but at the last moment, Goku transforms into Super Saiyan Blue and overpowers the assassin.

This fight showed us that while Blue is a very powerful form, it should be used cleverly in order to achieve its fullest potential, and made Goku realize that he still has a long way to go.

VS Zamasu

Through fusing with Goku, Vegeta realized that Goku is the only one with a chance of beating Zamasu. Vegeta insisted that Trunks should only heal Goku, and with that happening, our main protagonist was ready to go. He went up against Zamasu, transformed into a Super Saiyan Blue and then sealed its aura and energy into his body. Goku proceeded to fight evenly with Zamasu, and Vegeta commented that his rival had completed the Blue form by sealing its power into his body, allowing him to use it to its fullest extent.

Although his body was in terrible pain and in danger of breaking down, Goku managed to perfect his strongest form and showed his growth as a fighter by doing that.

VS Jiren

During the Tournament of Power, Goku encountered his mightiest foe yet, Jiren. He tried to fight him using his full extent of his powers, but to no avail. Goku was sure that pure power was what he was missing. But then his old master, Roshi, reminded him that power is not all. And that's when he was awakened. He acquired the ultimate skill of the gods, one that severs the link between consciousness and body -- Ultra Instict.

With that technique, he managed to overwhelm Jiren, not in terms of sheer power, but just plain effectiveness. He was hitting all of Jiren's vital areas while protecting his own, without even thinking for a little. However, his body was not ready to handle this newfound power and it eventually wore off, with Jiren coming out on top. We don't know if Ultra Instinct is dead, but I hope it appears again in order to see how Goku will try to master it.

All in all, Super is, at least in my point of view, the journey of Goku through the world of the gods, and I am very interested in seeing what progress he will make in the new arc of the manga.
My Dragon Ball Super 'Canon'

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Re: Goku's continual evolution in Super.

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:25 pm

I can definitely see it. As much grief as the manga gets, I appreciate its unique take on events of the series, and I wonder what the anime would've been like had the manga not gone on hiatus and stayed ahead of things.

And now, for the anime take

"Goku gains the power of the Gods and ascends even further beyond through rigorous, lengthy training"

That's good

"Frieza, his nemesis, gains power that rivals that in 4 months"

That's bad

"Goku pushes forward, utilizing old techniques and polishing new to rise to new levels. KAIOKEN!"

That's good

"Future Trunks gains a power up that puts him out of nowhere. Also, spirit bomb sword"

Oh, that's bad

"Goku attains a level even the GoDs cannot fully attain: Ultra Instinct, and fights to save his universe from destruction"

Well that's good

"He also gets scuffed by a bullet"


"Did I mention his stamina increases while he fights?"

Can I go home now?

(Brownie points if you get the reference. Note this does not reflect my true feelings of the anime, nor the actual events of said anime)

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Re: Goku's continual evolution in Super.

Post by Simere » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:09 am

What exactly are you doing in Zeno's bedroom?

Goku's continued progression is my primary interest, and I'd describe his progress in both mediums thus far as glacial, at best. Feels like a treadmill. I largely attribute this to the shifting goalpost that is Beerus. Because his strength can't be nailed down, neither can that of new opponents(who must remain below him), which has given us this nebulous "not as strong as Beerus" area we've been stuck with since BoG/RoF. The presence of traditional displays of power progression previously enjoyed—overcoming a previously unbeatable foe, showcasing new capabilities after training, learning a difficult technique—are almost nowhere to be found, and the ones that exist are so poorly done the effect is dulled.

Talking about the anime:


Countered the Time Skip by anticipating his movements. Not actually progression, because tremendous fight IQ is something we already knew Goku possesses. This was a fantastic demonstration of that fact, no doubt, but it didn't advance him further along his journey.

SSBKK was real progression as it actually expanded his capabilities, but then it was all lost when the ending hit the reset button. Goku didn't rule out using Kaio-ken again(Kaio-sama didn't, either), just that he'd need to work on it some more, so at least there was hope for the progress that was just snatched away to return. Hope that, out of story, was deadened a bit when the manga didn't use it.


Between holding back, teaming up, rage boosts and a general failure to do the basics of power scaling, there was surely no progress to be felt here. Goku flashed SSBKK at the end but that felt like a last resort maneuver, not an indication of increased mastery.

Hit rematch

Countered Hit's new techniques. Another affirmation of Goku's sense for fighting, but only that. Advances him in the "Hit matchup", I suppose, but doesn't have broader applicability.


What do you know, he did increase his mastery of SSBKK. For the first time I was actually feeling like real progress wast at hand: Goku was clearly stronger than ever fully utilizing SSBKK, and he seemed on the cusp of something even greater than that. That something more than lived up to its promise but, again, the arc hits the reset button at the end.

This is the part some people celebrate. Even if you wanted UI as some ultimate or end game goal for Goku(which I certainly don't), the thing to do is clearly establish it as just that: a goal. Something that the character can actually be felt working towards; something that can be written around in terms of motivation, maybe even the whole plot if you wanted to go big. Instead it's gone because it's gone, and nothing but a void is in its absence. No purpose, no curiosity, no aspiration. Even worse in the manga.


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