ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by Tai Lung » Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:49 pm

Acetona wrote: As I said, ToP fights are stale and repetitive.
Image
the fights have a lot of detail now

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hit vs dyspo
for dragon ball which is a series that over time the fights were summarized in those who have the biggest ball of ki "wins" is even innovative a fight where strategy and skills are used in a purely physical combat taking advantage of the weaknesses and strengths of the opponent This is easily one of the best fights in the franchise

there were opponents who have special abilities out of the traditional
Image
elemental attacks

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poison-based attacks

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black hole

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hakai no energy, apart from of toppo subplot how a warrior trained to be a destroyer god

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a fusion of robots that faces 5 opponents at the same time

again, what point? Were the fights repetitive?
there was a great variety of fights with different style
the fact that they focused on the U7 does not affect too much because everyone had their moment
it was possible to use many different fights so that do not feel repetitive or antiquated compared to other times
TheRed259 wrote: Just because it has good visuals that means that it's the best? It seems that when it comes to Super, people care only about the animation and not about the story.
it's like comparing frieza arc and 22 tenkaichi
because the arcs are mostly treated differently and the tournaments were complementary and not the arc itself.
here everything is about the tournament and universal survival. basically gather 80 fighters and the objective is to win the tournament, the important thing will obviously be the fights, the interactions and the different events in this are the main attraction.

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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by PFM18 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:02 pm

Acetona wrote:It's a matter of execution. As I said, ToP fights are stale and repetitive.
I don't see how an argument could possibly be made that the ToP fights are any more bland and repetitive than previous fights. What's repetitive, is that literally almost every single fight in the entirety franchise is determined by who is stronger. "A>B, therefore B wins" is the format of every single fight, with absolutely no nuance whatsoever. The only exceptions being the in the Tenkaichi Budokais of the original series. The ToP has actual variation than just a dick-measuring contest of who has more power, and just alternating between characters having power-ups and taking turns kicking each other's asses, of which Tai Lung already detailed. They ACTUALLY have things other than power contributing to the outcome of the fight. Oh, and not to mention, that at the time it aired, it had by far the best animation in the franchise.

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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by Acetona » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:31 pm

Tai Lung wrote:snip
Hit vs Dyspo was just a normal fight for the franchise standards, it just had some stupid explanation that is really convoluted.
We do have characters with cool abilities, but don't act like they play a big role.
That absolute zero guy freezes Vegeta arm, he gives no shit about it, melts the ice and proceeds to kick him out of the arena.
That poison fox didn't even use his poison on ToP, because it would kill his enemies, so what's the point?
The black hole that was overcome by "the biggest ball of ki" called Kamehameha.
Hakai energy isn't anything cool, I'm still trying to understand how can Toppo use it and not kill his opponents. It turns out to be an ordinary ki ball with fancy name. And his subplot is just revealed at the last moment, and feels like an asspull. They could've foreshadowed it better, specially since Super's plot is written in advance.
And you're saying me Anilaza is original just because he is a fusion of 3 robots and an old guy? He was defeated in an extremely generic way I can't even remember in detail. It's like he shot a ki ball and 17 used his barrier and punched him or something.

Those shots from Goku vs Jiren are awesome indeed, but 2 minutes of fighting don't save an entire 40 episode arc about fighting.
PFM18 wrote:
Acetona wrote:It's a matter of execution. As I said, ToP fights are stale and repetitive.
I don't see how an argument could possibly be made that the ToP fights are any more bland and repetitive than previous fights. What's repetitive, is that literally almost every single fight in the entirety franchise is determined by who is stronger. "A>B, therefore B wins" is the format of every single fight, with absolutely no nuance whatsoever. The only exceptions being the in the Tenkaichi Budokais of the original series. The ToP has actual variation than just a dick-measuring contest of who has more power, and just alternating between characters having power-ups and taking turns kicking each other's asses, of which Tai Lung already detailed. They ACTUALLY have things other than power contributing to the outcome of the fight. Oh, and not to mention, that at the time it aired, it had by far the best animation in the franchise.
Repetitive storyboard and animation-wise. Shockwaves in the air; rapid-punching while the background rolls swiftly; people flying through 3 or more "mountains". This stuff is in every fight.

C'mon guys, I'm not hating Super just because of it. It is extremely average and it pains me, since Dragon Ball is one of my favorite manga and anime. It could be MILES better than it is.
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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by PFM18 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:39 pm

Acetona wrote:Repetitive storyboard and animation-wise. Shockwaves in the air; rapid-punching while the background rolls swiftly; people flying through 3 or more "mountains". This stuff is in every fight.

C'mon guys, I'm not hating Super just because of it. It is extremely average and it pains me, since Dragon Ball is one of my favorite manga and anime. It could be MILES better than it is.
the rapid-punching sequences and people flying through mountains are without a doubt a staple within this franchise. It would be strange if that sort of thing wasn't there frequently. And it doesn't happen much more, if any more, than the original series.

But just by the nature of the fights in the ToP, they are dramatically more dynamic than the original series considering that the actual fights are handled in a more creative way in almost every capacity.

I don't know, are you sure you don't hate it for the sake of it?

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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by Acetona » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:47 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Acetona wrote:Repetitive storyboard and animation-wise. Shockwaves in the air; rapid-punching while the background rolls swiftly; people flying through 3 or more "mountains". This stuff is in every fight.

C'mon guys, I'm not hating Super just because of it. It is extremely average and it pains me, since Dragon Ball is one of my favorite manga and anime. It could be MILES better than it is.
the rapid-punching sequences and people flying through mountains are without a doubt a staple within this franchise. It would be strange if that sort of thing wasn't there frequently. And it doesn't happen much more, if any more, than the original series.

But just by the nature of the fights in the ToP, they are dramatically more dynamic than the original series considering that the actual fights are handled in a more creative way in almost every capacity.

I don't know, are you sure you don't hate it for the sake of it?
The mountain thingy definitely is'nt a staple. Not with them going through 3 or more of them. It happened very sparsely and, when it happened, it had some impact. Nowadays it feels like it's just something to cut corners on animation (and I think both issues I named ARE indeed).

The rapid punching sequences are nothing like they were on Z. There, they foccused on the characters themselves. On Super, they are very very tiny on the screen, while the background rolls.

You're doing the same the staff of Super has done. "Hey, we had this, so why not?", the staples are there, but are executed way differently. For instance, it's not like I hate the fights, I like #17 vs. Kakunsa, but they aren't anything spectacular. They could be so much better.

And yeah, I'm sure. I don't have any major grips with sequels to series I just like but I'm not an avid fan, like Boruto, Fairy Tail: The 100 Years Quest and Saint Seiya: Next Dimension. I love Dragon Ball, and that's why Super bothers me so much.
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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by Lionel » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:50 pm

I have to say that the fights, while certainly dabbling with some relatively new concepts in areas, could have stood to show some more diligence and accurate interpretation of its mechanics. One example would be Hyssop's glaciation of Vegeta's hand. Why couldn't exposure to such a frigid encasement on his limb negatively affect the litheness and exertion of it for a time after it had been dislodged? Hyssop did mention that his attack was "absolute zero" or something. Maybe Vegeta's limb begins to exhibit symptoms of early frostbite and it's having a negative impact on his fighting ability afterwards.

If you ask me, one of the issues of the Tournament of Power was a lack of attention to detail. Daishinkan's tournament ring, made of a substance that's more greater than Katchin apparently, was so reactively destructible to any moderate amounts of trauma that it makes you question what the difference is between it and normal earthen terrain. For some reason that part bothers me amongst a number of other questionable writing aspects in the tournament.

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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by Acetona » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:59 pm

Lionel wrote:I have to say that the fights, while certainly dabbling with some relatively new concepts in areas, could have stood to show some more diligence and accurate interpretation of its mechanics. One example would be Hyssop's glaciation of Vegeta's hand. Why couldn't exposure to such a frigid encasement on his limb negatively affect the litheness and exertion of it for a time after it had been dislodged? Hyssop did mention that his attack was "absolute zero" or something. Maybe Vegeta's limb begins to exhibit symptoms of early frostbite and it's having a negative impact on his fighting ability afterwards.

If you ask me, one of the issues of the Tournament of Power was a lack of attention to detail. Daishinkan's tournament ring, made of a substance that's more greater than Katchin apparently, was so reactively destructible to any moderate amounts of trauma that it makes you question what the difference is between it and normal earthen terrain. For some reason that part bothers me amongst a number of other questionable writing aspects in the tournament.
Yeah, like, Goku damaged the ring just grabbing the edge of it. It could be masterfully used to show us how strong they are, but when meaningless things break the ring, it feels so underwhelming.
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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:18 am

Acetona wrote:
Tai Lung wrote:snip
Hit vs Dyspo was just a normal fight for the franchise standards, it just had some stupid explanation that is really convoluted.
We do have characters with cool abilities, but don't act like they play a big role.
That absolute zero guy freezes Vegeta arm, he gives no shit about it, melts the ice and proceeds to kick him out of the arena.
That poison fox didn't even use his poison on ToP, because it would kill his enemies, so what's the point?
The black hole that was overcome by "the biggest ball of ki" called Kamehameha.
Hakai energy isn't anything cool, I'm still trying to understand how can Toppo use it and not kill his opponents. It turns out to be an ordinary ki ball with fancy name. And his subplot is just revealed at the last moment, and feels like an asspull. They could've foreshadowed it better, specially since Super's plot is written in advance.
And you're saying me Anilaza is original just because he is a fusion of 3 robots and an old guy? He was defeated in an extremely generic way I can't even remember in detail. It's like he shot a ki ball and 17 used his barrier and punched him or something.

Those shots from Goku vs Jiren are awesome indeed, but 2 minutes of fighting don't save an entire 40 episode arc about fighting.
-I did not use ki attacks ... it was a physical fight using special abilities and I really used an explanation according to the defects and strengths of each of them I do not see the point of what you mean are "time stop VS superspeed"
-for which the opponents of U9 lasted, because if it is a big difference, most of them did not use traditional attacks. My point is kept here.
-I used it in the exhibition tournament and I used it again in the tournament only that Goku planned a strategy to counteract it using a barrier
-not change the point again the opponent use different skill to the one of goku that also canceled his teleport that defeated him with more power does not change that part.
-Hakai> Hakai no energy is different and still canceled frost attacks and toppo could use it as a defensive barrier
by pure moral of toppo was the reason for not using it at the beginning
in the tournament you can not kill toppo had to be contained in any case
and finally vegeta has ki god to be able to go against toppo and overcome his hakai no energy
-when dragon ball series canon fought 5 warriors with a giant warrior at the same time?
he was defeated seeing his weak point

strategy, special abilities, combinations, mergers and teamwork are used

ok you will excuse me for not agreeing but for me he had enough in adding new things to stay

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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by Acetona » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:51 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Acetona wrote:
Tai Lung wrote:snip
Hit vs Dyspo was just a normal fight for the franchise standards, it just had some stupid explanation that is really convoluted.
We do have characters with cool abilities, but don't act like they play a big role.
That absolute zero guy freezes Vegeta arm, he gives no shit about it, melts the ice and proceeds to kick him out of the arena.
That poison fox didn't even use his poison on ToP, because it would kill his enemies, so what's the point?
The black hole that was overcome by "the biggest ball of ki" called Kamehameha.
Hakai energy isn't anything cool, I'm still trying to understand how can Toppo use it and not kill his opponents. It turns out to be an ordinary ki ball with fancy name. And his subplot is just revealed at the last moment, and feels like an asspull. They could've foreshadowed it better, specially since Super's plot is written in advance.
And you're saying me Anilaza is original just because he is a fusion of 3 robots and an old guy? He was defeated in an extremely generic way I can't even remember in detail. It's like he shot a ki ball and 17 used his barrier and punched him or something.

Those shots from Goku vs Jiren are awesome indeed, but 2 minutes of fighting don't save an entire 40 episode arc about fighting.
-I did not use ki attacks ... it was a physical fight using special abilities and I really used an explanation according to the defects and strengths of each of them I do not see the point of what you mean are "time stop VS superspeed"
-for which the opponents of U9 lasted, because if it is a big difference, most of them did not use traditional attacks. My point is kept here.
-I used it in the exhibition tournament and I used it again in the tournament only that Goku planned a strategy to counteract it using a barrier
-not change the point again the opponent use different skill to the one of goku that also canceled his teleport that defeated him with more power does not change that part.
-Hakai> Hakai no energy is different and still canceled frost attacks and toppo could use it as a defensive barrier
by pure moral of toppo was the reason for not using it at the beginning
in the tournament you can not kill toppo had to be contained in any case
and finally vegeta has ki god to be able to go against toppo and overcome his hakai no energy
-when dragon ball series canon fought 5 warriors with a giant warrior at the same time?
he was defeated seeing his weak point

strategy, special abilities, combinations, mergers and teamwork are used

ok you will excuse me for not agreeing but for me he had enough in adding new things to stay
It just didn't have any ki attacks. The way the writers make people surpass Hit's Time Skip isn't really clear and seems convoluted. And Goku broke his techniques 2 times just by being... stronger...? I don't know, we don't have any explanation. And that's funny, because side characters make stupid remarks all the time, but they couldn't explain things that needed to be explained :lol: (and yeah, this happens no Z too, that's whay it shouldn't be happening here, things must improve over time, not stall)

If I recall correctly, Trio de Dangers strongest technique was really typical though. And also iirc, I think I mentioned those "sniper guys" from U2 as a cool addition, but those special ability users were mostly cannon fodder and hadn't enough screentime. They're there and are unique in-universe, but they weren't used as well as they could be.

Ok, I don't remember him using poison at all on ToP, I'll give you that.

It seems the show do treat Hakai and Hakai energy as 2 different things, but it's not made clear and acts just like some fancy named ki ball/barrier. And how do you contain something that erases whichever it touches? That's my point, it doesn't make any sense.

Canon never. But is being canon everything? We certainly saw this with Hirudegarn. Anilaza is giant too. It isn't anything new, my mind can't pretend I didn't see DBZ Movie 13 and thought this is super original. I'll give you that weak point thingy, I can't remember anything about targeting a weak spot on the enemy's body now, but that's really overused everywhere, I mean, this is a common way that Super Sentai villains die when they're giant.

I'm not saying there isn't anything new, it's just they were executed very badly and become forgetable. We remember that absolute zero guy, but I bet most casual fans won't remember him in some time, if they haven't forget him already. Yet, everybody will remember characters like Dyspo, Toppo and Jiren.
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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by Luso Saiyan » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:06 pm

Yes, long and boring. The first two arcs were only "boring" because they were (badly) adapting the movies. The ToP was new content.

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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:35 pm

Acetona wrote:
Tai Lung wrote:
Acetona wrote:
Hit vs Dyspo was just a normal fight for the franchise standards, it just had some stupid explanation that is really convoluted.
We do have characters with cool abilities, but don't act like they play a big role.
That absolute zero guy freezes Vegeta arm, he gives no shit about it, melts the ice and proceeds to kick him out of the arena.
That poison fox didn't even use his poison on ToP, because it would kill his enemies, so what's the point?
The black hole that was overcome by "the biggest ball of ki" called Kamehameha.
Hakai energy isn't anything cool, I'm still trying to understand how can Toppo use it and not kill his opponents. It turns out to be an ordinary ki ball with fancy name. And his subplot is just revealed at the last moment, and feels like an asspull. They could've foreshadowed it better, specially since Super's plot is written in advance.
And you're saying me Anilaza is original just because he is a fusion of 3 robots and an old guy? He was defeated in an extremely generic way I can't even remember in detail. It's like he shot a ki ball and 17 used his barrier and punched him or something.

Those shots from Goku vs Jiren are awesome indeed, but 2 minutes of fighting don't save an entire 40 episode arc about fighting.
-I did not use ki attacks ... it was a physical fight using special abilities and I really used an explanation according to the defects and strengths of each of them I do not see the point of what you mean are "time stop VS superspeed"
-for which the opponents of U9 lasted, because if it is a big difference, most of them did not use traditional attacks. My point is kept here.
-I used it in the exhibition tournament and I used it again in the tournament only that Goku planned a strategy to counteract it using a barrier
-not change the point again the opponent use different skill to the one of goku that also canceled his teleport that defeated him with more power does not change that part.
-Hakai> Hakai no energy is different and still canceled frost attacks and toppo could use it as a defensive barrier
by pure moral of toppo was the reason for not using it at the beginning
in the tournament you can not kill toppo had to be contained in any case
and finally vegeta has ki god to be able to go against toppo and overcome his hakai no energy
-when dragon ball series canon fought 5 warriors with a giant warrior at the same time?
he was defeated seeing his weak point

strategy, special abilities, combinations, mergers and teamwork are used

ok you will excuse me for not agreeing but for me he had enough in adding new things to stay
It just didn't have any ki attacks. The way the writers make people surpass Hit's Time Skip isn't really clear and seems convoluted. And Goku broke his techniques 2 times just by being... stronger...? I don't know, we don't have any explanation. And that's funny, because side characters make stupid remarks all the time, but they couldn't explain things that needed to be explained :lol: (and yeah, this happens no Z too, that's whay it shouldn't be happening here, things must improve over time, not stall)

If I recall correctly, Trio de Dangers strongest technique was really typical though. And also iirc, I think I mentioned those "sniper guys" from U2 as a cool addition, but those special ability users were mostly cannon fodder and hadn't enough screentime. They're there and are unique in-universe, but they weren't used as well as they could be.

Ok, I don't remember him using poison at all on ToP, I'll give you that.

It seems the show do treat Hakai and Hakai energy as 2 different things, but it's not made clear and acts just like some fancy named ki ball/barrier. And how do you contain something that erases whichever it touches? That's my point, it doesn't make any sense.

Canon never. But is being canon everything? We certainly saw this with Hirudegarn. Anilaza is giant too. It isn't anything new, my mind can't pretend I didn't see DBZ Movie 13 and thought this is super original. I'll give you that weak point thingy, I can't remember anything about targeting a weak spot on the enemy's body now, but that's really overused everywhere, I mean, this is a common way that Super Sentai villains die when they're giant.

I'm not saying there isn't anything new, it's just they were executed very badly and become forgetable. We remember that absolute zero guy, but I bet most casual fans won't remember him in some time, if they haven't forget him already. Yet, everybody will remember characters like Dyspo, Toppo and Jiren.
the skills can be neutralized due to a greater force that always happens in the series.
and hit can improve his ability to face someone stronger than him, then we are criticizing that the protagonist wins? because the first time goku lost against it.
it's simple dyspo listened to the sound of the muscles contracting, next it was ahead of hit in the instant where it was going to perform the technique by its super speed, is really simple and explained quite clearly
Image
clear though the Trio de Dangers used teamwork fighting all 3 at once
it is assumed that the "hakai no energy" is significantly weaker than the hakai so it vegeta being stronger with the ssb and covering with god ki could neutralize it
Image
ok I respect your opinion but for me it stayed well with the different styles and way of fighting that there were either with the powerful warriors as the weakest characters all had something to show
Image
Image

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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:09 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Acetona wrote:Repetitive storyboard and animation-wise. Shockwaves in the air; rapid-punching while the background rolls swiftly; people flying through 3 or more "mountains". This stuff is in every fight.

C'mon guys, I'm not hating Super just because of it. It is extremely average and it pains me, since Dragon Ball is one of my favorite manga and anime. It could be MILES better than it is.
the rapid-punching sequences and people flying through mountains are without a doubt a staple within this franchise. It would be strange if that sort of thing wasn't there frequently. And it doesn't happen much more, if any more, than the original series.

But just by the nature of the fights in the ToP, they are dramatically more dynamic than the original series considering that the actual fights are handled in a more creative way in almost every capacity.

I don't know, are you sure you don't hate it for the sake of it?
Not really. The ATATATATTATATATATA became a meme for a reason.

Are you sure you’re not just defending Super for the sake it? You always go right to that “argument” whenever someone points out in dbs that they don’t like, as if they insulted a real person

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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by Acetona » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:39 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Power overcoming everything isn't a good way to deal with special abilities. They should be dealt with wit, like we see on JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and Hunter x Hunter. To be honest, Goku vs Botamo on U6 arc had a good conclusion, but the animation was awful. I would like to see more of this. Gohan vs Botamo was poor though.

I don't understand how can Dyspo be ahead of Hit when Hit can see him dodging or blocking while using Time Skip, since only he moves. It's like Hit purposedly misses his attacks.

Maji=Kayo was a good addition ability-wise, I agree. Because, you know, he had screentime.
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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by Nickolaidas » Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:56 pm

I think the ToP had the best, absolutely best finale in the entire franchise. The endgame was mind-blowing and the first time since God knows when that I've literally rewatched again and again and again just when I was 17 years old and watched the 22nd Budokai saga.

As for the saga itself, it had its up and downs. Definitely not the worst and most boring arc of Super - that honor belongs to the BoG saga, a saga so horrible that I had to literally FORCE myself to watch it and despite that, watched it with 20-30 day intervals, unlike the Black saga which I saw it in 2 sittings and the U6 vs U7 saga which had quite a few good moments.

No, the worst Super arc is definitely the BoG one. RoF comes a close second, but BoG was horrible.

ToP is very nicely done (in general) and other than a couple of barf episodes (Vegeta Super Duper Blue vs Toppo), it was a blast to watch.

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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by emperior » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:40 pm

I disagree.
It’s probably the best long animated Dragon Ball arc to rewatch. It’s basically made to be watched an episode a day instead of one a week, in my opinion. I highly suggest to anyone who only watched it once and weekly to rewatch it.
Everything from the Zen Exhibition Match, to the recruitment, to the beginning of the tournament, to the fantastic introduction of Ultra Instinct to Jiren’s awesome defeat is well animated, entertaining and gives the tournament the feeling of a super important event which is why I’m actually glad they didn’t rush it. The ending is especially good.
The only weaknesses I find are some episodes going way too slow, or some having bad and re-used animation or just poor direction and writing, but these are very few episodes which in the grand scheme of things do not ruin the arc to me.
It’s also definitely the best animated arc out of all the animated arcs (even more so if we look at how it gave us some nice fights every single week), which is undoubtedly a good thing considering this is an animated show.
The arc is almost just pure spectacle, right, but it’s high level spectacle filled with many highlights I usually end up rewatching due to how entertaining they are.

If we talk about the manga’s version of the arc, then I can agree that’s definitely bad and definitely the worst out of the 3 arcs Toyotaro did.
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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by supersaiyanZero » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:48 am

The ToP is everything wrong with modern dragonball. It's actually disgusting at how bad it is and how shoddily executed it is.

Please note: dumbass power level arguments do not bother me. "X shouldn't be able to scratch Y" should not even be an argument in Super considering how bad and inconsistent the power scaling is. I have thrown out this concept entirely for me to rewatch this show.

We have a bunch of poorly animated, poorly choreographed fights that include the Z warriors and a bunch of one note fodder. It's bad enough they are fodder, but they are so incredibly generic without any of their own convictions that it's incredibly painful to watch any of their ridiculous monologues along with some poorly animated sequence . Their "special abilities" are generic gimmicks that don't really add anything to the battle which was the whole point of them in the first place.

Jiren is boring, both design wise and character wise. Absolutely the WORST antagonist in shounen.

The constant atatatats, the constant throwbacks to the previous series' beats (which arrived organically in Z), it's all garbage. By the time unless ultra instinct comes along, who cares?

ironfist2020
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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by ironfist2020 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:32 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:Yeah its really boring. It feels so episodic.
thats what make it so great.it has replay value. nothing is connected to the other so you can just choose to re-watch any of them whenever you want without having to bother with the plot

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OLKv3
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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by OLKv3 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:17 pm

I feel so weird because I really enjoyed the ToP when it started kicking off. It had a bad start but once we got to the Frost episode it was full of fun fights and good character interactions. I loved Goku's convos with the Androids, 18 vs Ribrianne, the cheesy power rangers battle vs Aniraza, Gohan and Piccolo vs the Namekians, the U6 Saiyan fights, and so much more

I really enjoyed myself and definitely always go back for repeat viewings. It was flawed, but I liked it much more than the Champa arc

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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by Gligarman » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:34 pm

I disagree. I loved the tournament of power! I think the worst arcs were the first two because they were rushed and just rehashed the previous two movies.

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Re: ToP Arc: The Worst and most boring Arc of Super so far?

Post by SsjCookie » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:54 am

supersaiyanZero wrote:The ToP is everything wrong with modern dragonball. It's actually disgusting at how bad it is and how shoddily executed it is.

Please note: dumbass power level arguments do not bother me. "X shouldn't be able to scratch Y" should not even be an argument in Super considering how bad and inconsistent the power scaling is. I have thrown out this concept entirely for me to rewatch this show.

We have a bunch of poorly animated, poorly choreographed fights that include the Z warriors and a bunch of one note fodder. It's bad enough they are fodder, but they are so incredibly generic without any of their own convictions that it's incredibly painful to watch any of their ridiculous monologues along with some poorly animated sequence . Their "special abilities" are generic gimmicks that don't really add anything to the battle which was the whole point of them in the first place.

Jiren is boring, both design wise and character wise. Absolutely the WORST antagonist in shounen.

The constant atatatats, the constant throwbacks to the previous series' beats (which arrived organically in Z), it's all garbage. By the time unless ultra instinct comes along, who cares?

I mostly agree with all that.
Even though I did enjoy some of the TOP episodes they cannot save the majority of the arc for me.
The reason I didn't get invested in TOP lies here....

1) Too many shallow new characters who didn't get the attention they needed to grow into interesting personality's.
In other words, quantity over quality.

2) Lacklustre animation and fights especially at the beginning, differs from episode to episode.
The last episodes from TOP had good animation but it should be good ALL THE TIME FROM THE START.

3) The main antagonist jiren.
Boring shallow brute of a character, poor design and uninteresting personality.

4) Storytelling.
Until it got to the end, the TOP wasn't taken seriously by many of the contestants and therefore I couldn't take it serious either.

5) the new Saiyan females were too much of an ass-pull to be interesting.


The positive points were....
Freeza and 17, they somewhat made it more watch-able.

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