How strong is DBS Gogeta's base and SSJ forms?

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Re: How strong is DBS Gogeta's base and SSJ forms?

Post by PFM18 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:58 pm

dragon boss z wrote:No, because it wasn't just regular ssj, it was getting buffer and buffer, it's like saying Trunk's base got stronger when he went grade 3. Plus Broly clearly works different than other saiyans.
It wasn't any more buff than his Ikari form until he went LSSJ or "SSJ Full Power", otherwise it was treated the same as a normal SSJ. Freeza thought back to Namek, showed normal SSJ in the flashback, Broly gets mad and goes SSJ, it is all the same. He was getting stronger and stronger, but that's not any different from any other point in the movie. This isn't at all analogous to Grade 3 Trunks.
don't think Broly or fussions follow regular multipliers. Heck even Goku and Vegeta seem to not to, considering base Goku fought a Broly who was stronger than SSG Vegeta and was doing fine. If I remember correctly you think SSG is like thousands of times stronger than base, so Goku shouldn't have been able to do anything, yet he was matching punches with him. Each form only seemed to give him a slight boost.
Base Goku had a very short sequence where he was doing alright because they were trying to showcase all of his forms the same way that he does with Jiren and what they did with Vegeta in the movie. And no, I don't think current SSG is thousands of times Base, not that my personal view on the matter is relevant here, and you're trying to counter a point that I never made about SSG being an enormous boost right now.

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Re: How strong is DBS Gogeta's base and SSJ forms?

Post by dragon boss z » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:40 pm

PFM18 wrote: It wasn't any more buff than his Ikari form until he went LSSJ or "SSJ Full Power", otherwise it was treated the same as a normal SSJ. Freeza thought back to Namek, showed normal SSJ in the flashback, Broly gets mad and goes SSJ, it is all the same. He was getting stronger and stronger, but that's not any different from any other point in the movie. This isn't at all analogous to Grade 3 Trunks.
I'm pretty sure ssj Broly physically grew as he was fighting Goku. Basically he probably started off as ssj and his great ape power started flowing into his ssj form, so his max power should be like 500x his base, which was already ssj level, and 50x his rage form which was around SSB level.
Base Goku had a very short sequence where he was doing alright because they were trying to showcase all of his forms the same way that he does with Jiren and what they did with Vegeta in the movie. And no, I don't think current SSG is thousands of times Base, not that my personal view on the matter is relevant here, and you're trying to counter a point that I never made about SSG being an enormous boost right now.
I was just going off my memory, but I thought you said before that the initial SSG transformation was at leas a 20,000x multiplier, and current SSG was more like 1,000 or something.
But at this point multipliers are kind of irrelevant.
The Broly scaling goes like this from what I saw
initial Broly<base Goku/Vegeta<ssj Goku/Vegeta<full power base Broly<SSG Goku/Vegeta<human great ape Broly form (10x base Broly?)<SSB Goku/Vegeta/Golden Frieza<initial ssj Broly(50x base Broly?)<=>base Gogeta<powering up ssj Broly<ssj Gogeta<full power ssj Broly(500x base Broly?)<ssb Gogeta

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Re: How strong is DBS Gogeta's base and SSJ forms?

Post by God Gogeta » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:36 pm

:think: :think:
After watching the movie several times ,here is what i think about Gogeta's power level.
Broly is unique saiyan whose power level rises each time during fighting.
Ikari form of Broly powered upto the state where he equalled Full Powered Perfected SSB (FPPSSB) Goku. Broly was only struggling because he isn't even close to the level of Martial skill Goku used.
When Broly transformed into SSJ he get's minimum 50 times multiplier over his Ikari base form he was using before. SSJ Broly when first appeared he effortlessly beating tag team of Goku and Vegeta both in FPPSSB so much that they were basically flying away from him. Then he clobbered Frieza and Golden Frieza for 1 hour. After that SSJ Broly again powered up before he went to fight Whis. This Powered up form may be 2 to 10 times stronger than before. That makes him closely more than 100 times stronger than FPPSSB Goku.
Now when Base Gogeta appeared he effortlessly dodged all attacks of powered up SSJ Broly, broly wasn't able to catch Gogeta by speed. That makes them more or less equal in strength.
Base Gogeta= Powered up SSJ Broly= 100 times FPPSSB Goku= MUI Goku= ( FPPSSB Goku+ FPPSSB Vegeta) times 50.

Gogeta goes SSJ to completely dominate the powering up ability of SSJ Broly.

SSJ Gogeta= 50 times Base Gogeta

SSJ Gogeta completely dominated SSJ Broly until Broly transforming into his LSSJ form. Gogeta transforms into SSB to regain the upper hand.
Now we don't know the perfect multiplier for SSG and SSB transformations ,but roughly SSG= 100 times SSJ3 and SSB = 50 times SSG.

SSB Gogeta = 50 * SSG Gogeta= 50* ( 100* SSJ3 Gogeta)= 50*{100*( 8* SSJ Gogeta)}=~ 50000 SSJ Gogeta

That's too large power level. FPLSSJ Broly blocked two kicks of SSB Gogeta forcing him to go full power and continuously beating Broly up without allowing him any time to power up even further.
If Gogeta used evolved version of PSSB then multiply it again by 20.
NB: Ikari Broly multiplier may be 100 times of base, considering Base Broly may not be stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Even in Ikari Form Broly continuously powered up. As Ikari equalled Vegeta SSG form,
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Re: How strong is DBS Gogeta's base and SSJ forms?

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:00 pm

God Gogeta wrote::think: :think:
After watching the movie several times ,here is what i think about Gogeta's power level.
Broly is unique saiyan whose power level rises each time during fighting.
Ikari form of Broly powered upto the state where he equalled Full Powered Perfected SSB (FPPSSB) Goku. Broly was only struggling because he isn't even close to the level of Martial skill Goku used.
When Broly transformed into SSJ he get's minimum 50 times multiplier over his Ikari base form he was using before. SSJ Broly when first appeared he effortlessly beating tag team of Goku and Vegeta both in FPPSSB so much that they were basically flying away from him. Then he clobbered Frieza and Golden Frieza for 1 hour. After that SSJ Broly again powered up before he went to fight Whis. This Powered up form may be 2 to 10 times stronger than before. That makes him closely more than 100 times stronger than FPPSSB Goku.
Now when Base Gogeta appeared he effortlessly dodged all attacks of powered up SSJ Broly, broly wasn't able to catch Gogeta by speed. That makes them more or less equal in strength.
Base Gogeta= Powered up SSJ Broly= 100 times FPPSSB Goku= MUI Goku= ( FPPSSB Goku+ FPPSSB Vegeta) times 50.

Gogeta goes SSJ to completely dominate the powering up ability of SSJ Broly.

SSJ Gogeta= 50 times Base Gogeta

SSJ Gogeta completely dominated SSJ Broly until Broly transforming into his LSSJ form. Gogeta transforms into SSB to regain the upper hand.
Now we don't know the perfect multiplier for SSG and SSB transformations ,but roughly SSG= 100 times SSJ3 and SSB = 50 times SSG.

SSB Gogeta = 50 * SSG Gogeta= 50* ( 100* SSJ3 Gogeta)= 50*{100*( 8* SSJ Gogeta)}=~ 50000 SSJ Gogeta

That's too large power level. FPLSSJ Broly blocked two kicks of SSB Gogeta forcing him to go full power and continuously beating Broly up without allowing him any time to power up even further.
If Gogeta used evolved version of PSSB then multiply it again by 20.
NB: Ikari Broly multiplier may be 100 times of base, considering Base Broly may not be stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Even in Ikari Form Broly continuously powered up. As Ikari equalled Vegeta SSG form,
Just a correction. Broly did not block two kicks from ssj blue gogeta and forced him to go all out.

Broly blocked a kick, the other one connected and send him flying back somewhat, Broly launched a beam that gogeta effortlessly dodged, then gogeta punched his face. Broly does the jiren type energy beams (same ones UI goku Dodged at the end of ToP) that gogeta dodges, pummels him somewhat, THEN... Gogeta uses more power than before. It was made clear that gogeta was still superior while suppressed. Whether he went all out or not at the end is yet to be known. All we know is that he didn't break a sweat after the fight and he didn't defuse after using a final move, something that a ssb fusion has been shown to do when they do a final move at full power.

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Re: How strong is DBS Gogeta's base and SSJ forms?

Post by God Gogeta » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:51 am

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
God Gogeta wrote::think: :think:
After watching the movie several times ,here is what i think about Gogeta's power level.
Broly is unique saiyan whose power level rises each time during fighting.
Ikari form of Broly powered upto the state where he equalled Full Powered Perfected SSB (FPPSSB) Goku. Broly was only struggling because he isn't even close to the level of Martial skill Goku used.
When Broly transformed into SSJ he get's minimum 50 times multiplier over his Ikari base form he was using before. SSJ Broly when first appeared he effortlessly beating tag team of Goku and Vegeta both in FPPSSB so much that they were basically flying away from him. Then he clobbered Frieza and Golden Frieza for 1 hour. After that SSJ Broly again powered up before he went to fight Whis. This Powered up form may be 2 to 10 times stronger than before. That makes him closely more than 100 times stronger than FPPSSB Goku.
Now when Base Gogeta appeared he effortlessly dodged all attacks of powered up SSJ Broly, broly wasn't able to catch Gogeta by speed. That makes them more or less equal in strength.
Base Gogeta= Powered up SSJ Broly= 100 times FPPSSB Goku= MUI Goku= ( FPPSSB Goku+ FPPSSB Vegeta) times 50.

Gogeta goes SSJ to completely dominate the powering up ability of SSJ Broly.

SSJ Gogeta= 50 times Base Gogeta

SSJ Gogeta completely dominated SSJ Broly until Broly transforming into his LSSJ form. Gogeta transforms into SSB to regain the upper hand.
Now we don't know the perfect multiplier for SSG and SSB transformations ,but roughly SSG= 100 times SSJ3 and SSB = 50 times SSG.

SSB Gogeta = 50 * SSG Gogeta= 50* ( 100* SSJ3 Gogeta)= 50*{100*( 8* SSJ Gogeta)}=~ 50000 SSJ Gogeta

That's too large power level. FPLSSJ Broly blocked two kicks of SSB Gogeta forcing him to go full power and continuously beating Broly up without allowing him any time to power up even further.
If Gogeta used evolved version of PSSB then multiply it again by 20.
NB: Ikari Broly multiplier may be 100 times of base, considering Base Broly may not be stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Even in Ikari Form Broly continuously powered up. As Ikari equalled Vegeta SSG form,
Just a correction. Broly did not block two kicks from ssj blue gogeta and forced him to go all out.

Broly blocked a kick, the other one connected and send him flying back somewhat, Broly launched a beam that gogeta effortlessly dodged, then gogeta punched his face. Broly does the jiren type energy beams (same ones UI goku Dodged at the end of ToP) that gogeta dodges, pummels him somewhat, THEN... Gogeta uses more power than before. It was made clear that gogeta was still superior while suppressed. Whether he went all out or not at the end is yet to be known. All we know is that he didn't break a sweat after the fight and he didn't defuse after using a final move, something that a ssb fusion has been shown to do when they do a final move at full power.
:thumbup: :thumbup:
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Re: How strong is DBS Gogeta's base and SSJ forms?

Post by Saturnine » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:26 am

I was always under the impression that SSj Blue is like a bit below 10x stronger than God at most. That's what the manga implies at least, and while that doesn't necessary hold ground for the anime or the movie, neither does 50x really (even less so, I'd say).

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Re: How strong is DBS Gogeta's base and SSJ forms?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:04 am

With the revelation that SSFP wasn't originally envisioned by Toriyama and added in by Shintani, I have a feeling that SS Broly was the most representative level he would've been at.

Gogeta was supposed to power up to match that level, too, but I'm not sure if the design choice affected how the characters scaled to one another after the additions. SS Broly seems to be what happens when you take Broly at SSB-level and then boost that by a factor of Super Saiyan.

Gogeta, then has to power up to match that. Also, their fight is relatively back-and-forth as Super Saiyans compared to later on where Ssfp Broly can't do much against SSB Gogeta. I think the implications are clear that, as Super Saiyans, the 2 of them are equal.

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Re: How strong is DBS Gogeta's base and SSJ forms?

Post by TobyS » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:23 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote:From what I saw in the movie, SS Broly = SS Gogeta more or less, while Base did somewhat alright holding its own vs SS Broly, so I'd say base Gogeta > SSB Goku & SSB Vegeta. I'm not too surprised, since base Vegito in the manga damaged Zamasu, who was SSB tier.
The trouble with base doing “somewhat alright” doesn't fit with the x50 multiplier of SS otherwise base should get blitzed by broly or SSj should roflstomp broly.

Honestly I just write it off as toei fucking up scaling an imagine an almost identical version where he just goes super right off the bat.
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Re: How strong is DBS Gogeta's base and SSJ forms?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:29 pm

TobyS wrote:
Dragon Wukong wrote:From what I saw in the movie, SS Broly = SS Gogeta more or less, while Base did somewhat alright holding its own vs SS Broly, so I'd say base Gogeta > SSB Goku & SSB Vegeta. I'm not too surprised, since base Vegito in the manga damaged Zamasu, who was SSB tier.
The trouble with base doing “somewhat alright” doesn't fit with the x50 multiplier of SS otherwise base should get blitzed by broly or SSj should roflstomp broly.

Honestly I just write it off as toei fucking up scaling an imagine an almost identical version where he just goes super right off the bat.
I think we need to unlearn this idea of "this level of power simply CAN'T perform this well/badly against this level no matter what", ESPECIALLY when it's used as a derogatory insult to Toei's staff. We should factor in HOW the fighting is performed and how that relates to strength.

We see that, in straight fighting, SS Broly and Gogeta showcase equal strength since they send each other flying evenly well; Gogeta just gets more shots in because he's not a berserker. When Gogeta's just flying around and dodging, he still does okay in base. It's like when SSB Goku was able to dodge and deflect SS Broly's blasts, only in that case he wasn't in a stamina-efficient base form.

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Re: How strong is DBS Gogeta's base and SSJ forms?

Post by God Gogeta » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:26 am

Base Gogeta equalled the power and speed of SSJ Broly considering he even powered up after his fight with PSSB Goku and Vegeta and golden Frieza. Gogeta had to go SSJ to completely dominate Broly who eventually powered up each time he gets a beating.
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