Broly's rage: is it inherently genetic or learnable?

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Koitsukai
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Re: Broly's Ikari .. Is it Genetically Inherent or Learnable?

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:55 pm

I guess Goku can learn pretty much anything, he completely mastered UI that is something for angels and GoDs, in less than an hour, so he shouldn't hit a wall with anything, really. The thing is he lost his tail and has developed his power by other means. One could say Goku actually did that in GT.
But perhaps this isn't learnable, it looks like Broly was so strong growing up that even without a tail that ohzaru dormant power had to get out somehow, or maybe he mastered it by becoming a great ape and then controlling it just like SS4 does, making his tail obsolete at some given point. Saiyajin do not entirely control the ohzaru because when they lose the tail, they lose the power.
So my vote goes for genetically inherent

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Re: Broly's Ikari .. Is it Genetically Inherent or Learnable?

Post by Rubens » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:43 am

Broli Broly wrote:
Rubens wrote:I feel the ability to harness or to attain a form that harnesses the power of an oozaru is something saiyans might be biologically capable to do, but it's something seemingly incredibly hard to do that only Broli can achieve because of his legendary status. I guess if some saiyan did achieve that form, probably it would be nowhere near as strong as Broli's, maybe only a resemblence.
No, it's not hard. In fact, it is much easier to attain than SSJ, since both kid Goku (ch 160 & 161) and Shallot from DB heroes were able to get an Oozaru power up while still being humans with not so much effort. Pretty much any Saiyan can do that as long as he/she has a tail and he/she exposed to the Moon's waves. The differences between this and Broly's case is as follows:
1- The necessity of tails & blutz waves for regular Saiyans. Boly can access his power without the need of a tail or blutz waves.
2- The lack of any unique aura in Goku/Shallot's case. Broly's Ikari has unique Green aura.
(...)
3- In Ikari, Broly kept growing in seize until he literally dwarfed Goku ... Kid Goku & Shallot lack this feature.
(...)
4- During the transformation sequence of SSJ, Broly's eyes turned wholly red, the same as an actual Oozaru:
(...)
5- During the Transformation sequence to the "Full Power SSJ", the same thing happened again:
(...)

These pics show that all Broly's forms (Ikari, SSJ & FPSSJ) work under the same principle of Ikari: "using the power of Oozaru in human form". So unless someone thinks that Broly's signature form (FPSSJ) is attainable/ learnable, I would say Ikari/Wrathful is a Mutation which only Legendary Saiyans possess.
To be fair, the power ups Goku and Shallot underwent were different and in different circumstances; they didn't change the same way as Broli did, just like you pointed out. What I inicially speculated was perhaps "how well" they can use the "oozaru power" in human form, hence why it seemed to me like something hard to do. However, I do agree with you that this "Ikari" form is very likely exclusive for Broli (which I hope it is) and possibly directly tied with his super saiyan forms.
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Re: Broly's Ikari .. Is it Genetically Inherent or Learnable?

Post by mute_proxy » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:47 am

Koitsukai wrote:I guess Goku can learn pretty much anything, he completely mastered UI that is something for angels and GoDs, in less than an hour, so he shouldn't hit a wall with anything, really. The thing is he lost his tail and has developed his power by other means. One could say Goku actually did that in GT.
Mastering it means he's a master at it, which he isn't, he can't even use it at will. He temporarily managed to access the complete version of it

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Re: Broly's Ikari .. Is it Genetically Inherent or Learnable?

Post by Broli Broly » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:06 am

Koitsukai wrote:I guess Goku can learn pretty much anything, he completely mastered UI that is something for angels and GoDs, in less than an hour, so he shouldn't hit a wall with anything, really. The thing is he lost his tail and has developed his power by other means. One could say Goku actually did that in GT.
But perhaps this isn't learnable, it looks like Broly was so strong growing up that even without a tail that ohzaru dormant power had to get out somehow, or maybe he mastered it by becoming a great ape and then controlling it just like SS4 does, making his tail obsolete at some given point. Saiyajin do not entirely control the ohzaru because when they lose the tail, they lose the power.
So my vote goes for genetically inherent
Fair enough! Speaking of UI, I think it was mentioned somewhere in the manga that UI is the accumulation of Goku's training in martial arts since the very beginning. This led me to the idea that UI was probably "tailored" to uniquely fit with Goku's way of training. The latter is a GREAT martial artist rather than a warrior, and was in this domain since his early childhood. Unlike Goku, Broly is basically a "Saiyan Tarzan", who fights mainly using primal instinct and brute force, just like an Oozaru. Maybe that's why Toriyama came up with this "concept" of Ikari as the foundation of Broly's Saiyan forms. As for Vegeta, he is an elite Warrior who acts on his pride as the prince of all Saiyans. We don't know what plans Toriyama has for him, but I think he may take SSB to an even higher form than evolution which will most likely be unique to him, and fit perfectly with his way of training. These are merely assumption, but who knows what's gonna happen? :)

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Re: Broly's Ikari .. Is it Genetically Inherent or Learnable?

Post by God Gogeta » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:10 pm

Fair enough! Speaking of UI, I think it was mentioned somewhere in the manga that UI is the accumulation of Goku's training in martial arts since the very beginning. This led me to the idea that UI was probably "tailored" to uniquely fit with Goku's way of training. The latter is a GREAT martial artist rather than a warrior, and was in this domain since his early childhood. Unlike Goku, Broly is basically a "Saiyan Tarzan", who fights mainly using primal instinct and brute force, just like an Oozaru. Maybe that's why Toriyama came up with this "concept" of Ikari as the foundation of Broly's Saiyan forms. As for Vegeta, he is an elite Warrior who acts on his pride as the prince of all Saiyans. We don't know what plans Toriyama has for him, but I think he may take SSB to an even higher form than evolution which will most likely be unique to him, and fit perfectly with his way of training. These are merely assumption, but who knows what's gonna happen? :)[/quote]
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Re: Broly's Ikari .. Is it Genetically Inherent or Learnable?

Post by Hulk10 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:25 pm

I think it might be learnable. I doubt that its tied to his Super Saiyan forms.
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Re: Broly's Ikari .. Is it Genetically Inherent or Learnable?

Post by Son Dragon » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:16 pm

Hulk10 wrote:I think it might be learnable. I doubt that its tied to his Super Saiyan forms.
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Re: Broly's Ikari .. Is it Genetically Inherent or Learnable?

Post by Hulk10 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:03 am

Unfortunately the admins on the dragon ball wikia page believe otherwise.
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The arrogance of man is thinking that we are in control of our destiny. Let them fight. -Dr. Ishiro Serizawa to Admiral William Stenz.

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Re: Broly's Ikari .. Is it Genetically Inherent or Learnable?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:56 pm

I think it's inherent, as it was unlocked through rage. I don't think rage can be learned or passed on.
Broli Broly wrote: Yeah, and something like this is would also be cool
Image
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But we all know that it's next to impossible :roll:
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Re: Broly's rage: is it inherently genetic or learnable?

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:50 pm

He was stated to be a mutant, so it's most likely genetics.

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Re: Broly's rage: is it inherently genetic or learnable?

Post by Hulk10 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:19 pm

Yeah Broly is a Saiyan prodigy.
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Re: Broly's rage: is it inherently genetic or learnable?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:09 am

I think the unique ability to power up specifically through the harnessing of Oozaru while retaining Human form is specifically unique to Broly, who was both a mutant AND was raised and trained in an environment almost perfectly made for an Oozaru.

However, that's not to say Goku and Vegeta don't use this at all. I think that this Oozaru potential is part of why all Saiyans have the potential to grow extremely strong extremely fast. When Vegeta and Goku dramatically power up to Super Saiyan (Blue), they briefly display the same green colouration Broly showcases. I believe that this wasn't JUST an artistic choice, but a deliberate aesthetic detail.

Basically, I take it as their ability to transform into the various types of Super Saiyans being partially due to their latent Oozaru potential; this hidden primal power allows them to tap into these higher levels and has always been with them, it's just that they haven't been able to express the full extent of it due to not being unique mutants like Broly is.

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