is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

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Lujin_16
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is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by Lujin_16 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:02 am

At the beginning i was against the form because they changed the color of his hair again,

but the long build up to the form and still not managed to controll the form makes it special in my opinion + his fighting style and creativity makes him

badass..



What do you guy think ???

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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by Grimlock » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:10 am

It would be the best (since Super Saiyan 2 actually) if it didn't contribute to the endless transformations for Saiyans. Ultra Instinct is just one among many. Also, when you least expect, another stronger transformation will come out of nowhere, thus belittling Ultra Instinct, the same way it happened before.
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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:20 am

It was definitely the most impactful transformation of Super, but I don't necessarily see it as the best since Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan is such an iconic transformation and the scenes each character showed the form off were iconic. Gohan's SSJ2 and Goku's SSJ3 were also fantastic (SSJ3 being my personal favorite because of how hyped I was to see it as a child)

God in Battle of Gods was fine. SSB was underwhelming. Kaioken Blue was really cool, and got me hooked into Super when I first saw it. Ultra Instinct I absolutely love. Though I see it more as a state of being over a transformation. The idea that the mind is cleared and the heart is calm, and all other thoughts are gone and the focus is solely on the battle. I absolutely love the breathing in episode 129 when he is getting the form under control.

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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:55 am

*since SSJ4

And no, it's not in my opinion. While the idea was pretty original it ended up being a power boost as well and will eventually turn into another multiplier. I liked what Roshi did in DBS manga - simply evading Jiren but lacking actual power to do anything to him. It would be better if UI didn't increase power but just improve senses. Jiren's power being above SSJB Kaioken is bs and ruined entire promise of Ultra Instinct being cool form.

I can't see UI being anywhere near SSJ God if we talk about DBS forms. It's better than SSJ Blue but that's not really a feat anyway.
SSJ God was a form that, at least in first saga, felt like something more than just power boost. UI giving Goku a lot of power turned this form/technique into just another power boost pretending to be something more than it actually is. While there were moments of Goku being surpised that his body moves on its own they still live in a shadow of "OMG Goku can now punch Jiren hard with this power" moments. Completely wasted potential to me. It also wasted potential of Jiren being at least slightly interesting character turning him into just raw power person. Was UI really needed here? Because it seems that power and speed high enough would beat him anyway without entire ultra instinct thing.
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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by PFM18 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:22 pm

Yes, of course it's the best transformation since Super Saiyan. Nothing else can really even compete. The combination of:

-The fact that it can't normally be controlled right afterwards makes it unique and special.
-The visuals of the aura, pupils, and the color combination looks fantastic.
-The difference in Goku's combat style and demeanor is compelling/interesting.
-The only transformation that actually does anything other than increase your power.
-Was foreshadowed almost 100 episodes before it's debut.
-Was the first transformation that was directly related to the teachings of Goku's master. What Goku has learned from Whis finally culminated in Goku being able to achieve this form and save his Universe from erasure.
-Beerus's character development associated with the introduction of this form.
-When Goku completed the transformation, it was followed by one of, if not the greatest fight in the franchise. Definitely the best fight that involved the introduction of a new form. Goku vs Vegeta and Piccolo(s) are the only ones that can really compete with this fight.(Or the fights in the movie)

Makes it right there with the original SSJ form as the best forms in this franchise.

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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by SSJgogeto » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:44 pm

I don't know, probably? I mean, tastes are relative.

I like the form, way more than some transformations mentioned above. It's cool, very simple and different from the SS forms, more or less like Kaioken.

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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by BWri » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:21 pm

Lujin_16 wrote:At the beginning i was against the form because they changed the color of his hair again,

but the long build up to the form and still not managed to controll the form makes it special in my opinion + his fighting style and creativity makes him

badass..



What do you guy think ???
I still don't think of it as a form, even though using it does needlessly transform Goku's hair. If it is technically a transformation, it passes my transformation test because its a form with a unique ability so when it's eventually surpassed by something stronger it still has a good reason to be used.

As far as the look goes, I feel the same about that I feel about any of the rainbow colored hair transformations, it makes no sense. UI omen was exactly what I wanted new transformations to look like (even though it technically isn't one). Changing the eye color, subtlely changing the hair shape and giving distinct auras is the way to go, been saying this since SSB and UI Omen was perfect.

As far as function goes, I do really like it but of course Toriyama makes it vaguely overpowered, again for no real reason other than to dunk on Jiren who was needlessly overpowered himself. I ended up liking UI Omen more than MUI because at least UI Omen sticks closest to the concept of what UI is supposed to be. If MUI got all its offense by way of counter hits, I'd like it a lot more.

I liked it a lot in the anime for the reasons you listed, but that's because I turned my brain off to fully enjoy the ToP.
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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:32 pm

I disagree, it looks cool but there's nothing that differentiates it from any other transformation, all that instinctual dodging looks like regular dodging.

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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:40 pm

I definitely think so.

There's some real creative inspiration and execution behind it beyond simple strength like with past forms.

The fact that it's NOT a technically Saiyan-centric form is what I love the most about it, since it leaves the door open to see Ultra Instinct in other characters. Maybe not the main cast to keep Goku special, but certainly others like Angels and Gods of Destruction.

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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by dragon boss z » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:57 pm

Considering it's the only one that really isn't just a boos in power, yes. It also felt earned with a long build up. It was hinted at ever since RoF, and after years of training, a trip to save the future, and two tournaments, he finally was able to use it, and overpower someone who was said to be stronger than a GoD. Hopefully they don't devalue it like what they did with the god forms.

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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:50 pm

SaiyanGod117 wrote:I disagree, it looks cool but there's nothing that differentiates it from any other transformation, all that instinctual dodging looks like regular dodging.
Yep, there is no big difference between those 3 and many other scenes in series. Just look for "dragon ball dodging" gif and you will find "ultra instinct" in entire franchise. Yes, in UI body dodges on its own, but with it giving huge power boost it doesn't make it that different than other forms. It's still a power boost, just with some special ability. But guess what, even in Super there already was SSJ Blue that allows to use Kaioken due to ki control it gives.

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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by Tai Lung » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:08 am

SaiyanGod117 wrote:I disagree, it looks cool but there's nothing that differentiates it from any other transformation, all that instinctual dodging looks like regular dodging.
here is a big difference between dodging someone for being stronger than avoiding instinctively
Goku vs Kefla is a good example
sunsetshimmer wrote:
SaiyanGod117 wrote:I disagree, it looks cool but there's nothing that differentiates it from any other transformation, all that instinctual dodging looks like regular dodging.
Yep, there is no big difference between those 3 and many other scenes in series. Just look for "dragon ball dodging" gif and you will find "ultra instinct" in entire franchise. Yes, in UI body dodges on its own, but with it giving huge power boost it doesn't make it that different than other forms. It's still a power boost, just with some special ability. But guess what, even in Super there already was SSJ Blue that allows to use Kaioken due to ki control it gives.

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it's very different ..
gohan ssj2 is stronger than cell
goku ssj4 is stronger than omega, at that moment and goku feel the ki
goku UI Omen was not superior to kefla in fact it was inferior
  in his offensive it was due to the nature of the UI that goku could dodge the attacks without having to be more powerful

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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by GodVegetto91 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:48 am

Yes. Definitely. But i don’t see what makes Super Saiyan 1 “the best form.”
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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by emperior » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:05 am

Yes. The concept of having the body moving on its own to increase reaction speed to a minimum is quite amazing.
It will be interesting to see what they will do with it in the future.
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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:45 am

Tai Lung wrote: goku UI Omen was not superior to kefla in fact it was inferior
  in his offensive it was due to the nature of the UI that goku could dodge the attacks without having to be more powerful
Yes he was, he kept increasing his power steadily, and a shockwave from his punch had her reeling.

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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:45 am

Yes.

I love the idea of a form that give the user to ability to evade attacks instinctively, while also tying into real life martial arts, allowing the gap in strength to countered with a skill and defensive nature. As an added bonus, it's a form that anyone can gain access to and isn't tied to the Saiyans specifically.

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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by Tai Lung » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:22 pm

SaiyanGod117 wrote:
Tai Lung wrote: goku UI Omen was not superior to kefla in fact it was inferior
  in his offensive it was due to the nature of the UI that goku could dodge the attacks without having to be more powerful
Yes he was, he kept increasing his power steadily, and a shockwave from his punch had her reeling.
as far as I remember it was said that kefla was capable of killing him for which goku was not superior to her

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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:05 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
SaiyanGod117 wrote:
Tai Lung wrote: goku UI Omen was not superior to kefla in fact it was inferior
  in his offensive it was due to the nature of the UI that goku could dodge the attacks without having to be more powerful
Yes he was, he kept increasing his power steadily, and a shockwave from his punch had her reeling.
as far as I remember it was said that kefla was capable of killing him for which goku was not superior to her
That was with a special Ki attack I.e-, Final Flash or Kamehameha which can increase the users power significantly for a split moment, for instance, think back to Piccolo SPC against Raditz. Still, even without taking into account he's stronger, UI does increase Goku's power just as a regular transformation and the auto dodging still looks like regular dodging, which is all the form has going for it.

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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by Tai Lung » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:22 pm

SaiyanGod117 wrote:
Tai Lung wrote:
SaiyanGod117 wrote: Yes he was, he kept increasing his power steadily, and a shockwave from his punch had her reeling.
as far as I remember it was said that kefla was capable of killing him for which goku was not superior to her
That was with a special Ki attack I.e-, Final Flash or Kamehameha which can increase the users power significantly for a split moment, for instance, think back to Piccolo SPC against Raditz. Still, even without taking into account he's stronger, UI does increase Goku's power just as a regular transformation and the auto dodging still looks like regular dodging, which is all the form has going for it.
in any case I maintain my position on my previous comment
goku UI Omen was able to dodge blows off kefla although in principle it was inferior He's would not have been able to do it without any special skills

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Re: is Ultra instinct the best form since the first Super saiyan???

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:51 pm

You maintain a false principle than, as Goku was blitzing Kefla back and forth you could replace UI with a power boost, and it will still achieve the same effect.

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