"Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - (Non) Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:39 pm

I'm going to put what I wrote in the other thread here as well, since it seems to be pretty relevant to what Toei's currently doing.
Alruneia wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:What a random way of revealing that Super is continuing.
I'm assuming that
Michsi wrote:As far as I understood this is coming from a licencing convention meant for media outlets and other different types of industry partners, so the info wasn't technically supposed to reach the general public.
is correct and this wasn't supposed to be revealed at all. Even if we did have some knowledge about this beforehand, we should be prepared for eventual misunderstandings etc. just in case.
I assume that what Toei is doing is a kind of "uhhh... nooo..." damage control reaction rather than actual denial, though.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:11 pm

Toei's response is 100% damage control. Everyone and their mother knows Super 2.0 is happening their year and they want to announce it at their own convenience. But it's too late now; the cat is out the bag.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by coola » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:17 pm

Meanwhile, SM fans still waiting for more information about Sailor Moon Crystal movies, today is 2th anniversary where they...announed that Crystal S3 will reciee continuation :lol: It is kinda sad how badly Toei treat one of their most popular worldwide franchise next to Dragon Ball and One Piece :(
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by majinwarman » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:08 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Toei's response is 100% damage control. Everyone and their mother knows Super 2.0 is happening their year and they want to announce it at their own convenience. But it's too late now; the cat is out the bag.
I'm not surprised about this response by Toei but I can't believe there are people who believe their bullshit.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Torturephile » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:21 pm

Two things that I hope for it: that it keeps the art style from Broly, and that it also retells said movie. They have extra material to add to it given Toriyama's long script wasn't fully utilized in the movie, more or less what they did at times with the Battle of Gods saga taking after deleted scenes from its movie counterpart in the original Super.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:12 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:Please don’t retell the movie , Toei !
Please do retell the movie Toei!! I'd be bordering on devastated if they didn't.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Shaddy » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:33 pm

People place a lot of fucking faith in that whole "the original board was 3 hours long" thing from the Broly movie, but we have no proof that the stuff that made it that long came from Toriyama's writing, or if it's just extra fighting, or even just elongated shots of what we saw. If there's any actual missing parts to the film's story, I want to see it implemented into the movie itself via an extended cut. I see absolutely nothing to be gained from remaking the entire thing with less staff, time and money. At least with Battle of Gods and Resurrection F you had the excuse of Dragon Ball not really being "back" yet and like five characters being introduced. The most that Broly needs is a flashback whenever Team Broly gets brought back into the story, which I feel may not even happen immediately.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by majinwarman » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:42 pm

Shaddy wrote:People place a lot of fucking faith in that whole "the original board was 3 hours long" thing from the Broly movie, but we have no proof that the stuff that made it that long came from Toriyama's writing, or if it's just extra fighting, or even just elongated shots of what we saw. If there's any actual missing parts to the film's story, I want to see it implemented into the movie itself via an extended cut. I see absolutely nothing to be gained from remaking the entire thing with less staff, time and money. At least with Battle of Gods and Resurrection F you had the excuse of Dragon Ball not really being "back" yet and like five characters being introduced. The most that Broly needs is a flashback whenever Team Broly gets brought back into the story, which I feel may not even happen immediately.
I understand why you would want that and I think would work but it’s not going to happen. I think Toei would want to retell the movie but I would be happy if they didn’t as well.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by KinguKurimuzon » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:56 pm

Michsi wrote:Oddly enough I actually would like them to start with a retelling of the movie this time. I think this is our only chance to see stuff that was initially part of the three hour long script they had to shorten.
The last thing I wanna see is another movie retelling. I'd rather they release an extended cut of the movie when it comes out on home video.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Shaddy » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:43 pm

majinwarman wrote: I understand why you would want that and I think would work but it’s not going to happen. I think Toei would want to retell the movie but I would be happy if they didn’t as well.
We got extended cuts of both the previous films. It's as likely as anything in this series, really.

I mean, ideally I don't want an extended cut if nothing in it is actually important like I believe, and I'd rather not have a retelling in the TV series because nobody needs that. I only think an extended cut is the better and/or more likely option because that's not something that would take up several weeks of the show's airtime.

And again y'all, it's Nagamine's storyboard that ended up being 3 hours long. People keep saying Toriyama's script had something cut, but we don't know that. And I still doubt that whatever was cut was that amazingly great that it's a big loss anyway.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:47 pm

Cipher wrote:I hope they retell Battle of Gods and Resurrection "F" again.
I do, too. Actually, retell all of Dragon Ball Super, this time as 52 episodes instead of 131 and with Shintani Naohiro as the character designer.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:19 pm

KinguKurimuzon wrote:
Michsi wrote:Oddly enough I actually would like them to start with a retelling of the movie this time. I think this is our only chance to see stuff that was initially part of the three hour long script they had to shorten.
The last thing I wanna see is another movie retelling. I'd rather they release an extended cut of the movie when it comes out on home video.
An extended cut wouldn't be enough. They cut out half of Toriyama's script/storyboards. We are missing the other half, and just about everything in it felt rushed. Making it more gradual would add so much to this story. And, it would be able to keep continuity with the anime by using SSBKK and SSBE in it.
Shaddy wrote:People place a lot of fucking faith in that whole "the original board was 3 hours long" thing from the Broly movie, but we have no proof that the stuff that made it that long came from Toriyama's writing, or if it's just extra fighting, or even just elongated shots of what we saw. If there's any actual missing parts to the film's story, I want to see it implemented into the movie itself via an extended cut. I see absolutely nothing to be gained from remaking the entire thing with less staff, time and money. At least with Battle of Gods and Resurrection F you had the excuse of Dragon Ball not really being "back" yet and like five characters being introduced. The most that Broly needs is a flashback whenever Team Broly gets brought back into the story, which I feel may not even happen immediately.
Regardless of what it was, we would benefit from seeing it. The movie itself was forced to rush a lot of things, and properly pacing it would benefit this story immsensely. For example:

-The flashbacks went almost immediately from Bardock realizing something was up, to the flashback being over and the Saiyan race being destroyed. Bardock doesn't actually confront Freeza, he doesn't go around trying to convince the other Saiyans, it just kind of almost instantly gets rushed along.
-Almost immediately upon Broly going SSJ, Goku and Vegeta accept defeat and go try to fuse without even attempting to fight him that way. There was no struggle whatsoever. It just needed more time.
-Because of the time constraints, it rushes right into the plot. We don't even get to see Gohan, Tenshinhan, Kururin in the entire movie. It would be in their best interest to give it space for things like showing these characters, and showing what they're up to, and THEN moving onto what happens with the conflict with Broly.

If there actually was a significant amount of writing elements that were left out, they wouldn't have enough time to just incorporate it into an extended cut.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:36 pm

While Gohan's absence is pretty conspicuous after the TOP - he got back into shape and wanted to fight to protect people, so why doesn't he get involved when he feels such a huge battle going on? It's just weird.

But I don't know why you'd expect to see Kuririn or especially Tenshinhan show up.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Shaddy » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:48 pm

PFM18 wrote: Regardless of what it was, we would benefit from seeing it.
We would benefit from knowing what was cut, but wasting time and resources on incorporating a movie everyone's already seen into a new show people are supposed to be hyped for is not that. Without definitive proof that what that was was sooooo amazingly poignant and important that it deserves six or seven extra episodes of story that's already been told with better production values, I have to say that there's no reason to not just jump into a new story with the potential to be good on it's own.
PFM18 wrote: For example:

-The flashbacks went almost immediately from Bardock realizing something was up, to the flashback being over and the Saiyan race being destroyed. Bardock doesn't actually confront Freeza, he doesn't go around trying to convince the other Saiyans, it just kind of almost instantly gets rushed along.
-Almost immediately upon Broly going SSJ, Goku and Vegeta accept defeat and go try to fuse without even attempting to fight him that way. There was no struggle whatsoever. It just needed more time.
-Because of the time constraints, it rushes right into the plot. We don't even get to see Gohan, Tenshinhan, Kururin in the entire movie. It would be in their best interest to give it space for things like showing these characters, and showing what they're up to, and THEN moving onto what happens with the conflict with Broly.

If there actually was a significant amount of writing elements that were left out, they wouldn't have enough time to just incorporate it into an extended cut.
You're saying it doesn't matter what was cut, but also feel the need to point out what the cut material could have been to justify it. I can't say that I even particularly want to see anything you've suggested here. None of this really improves the biggest problems with the story.
PFM18 wrote: If there actually was a significant amount of writing elements that were left out, they wouldn't have enough time to just incorporate it into an extended cut.
Then it's very likely that there weren't actually a significant amount of writing elements that were left out, which I've been saying. That's why I constantly specify that it was Nagamine's storyboard that was 3 hours, not necessarily Toriyama's script. If you're cutting that much and still end up with a film as good as the one we got, I cannot bring myself to believe that what was cut was such a horrible loss, it more than likely improved the movie.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by PremiumSalt » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:56 pm

Shaddy wrote:People place a lot of fucking faith in that whole "the original board was 3 hours long" thing from the Broly movie, but we have no proof that the stuff that made it that long came from Toriyama's writing, or if it's just extra fighting, or even just elongated shots of what we saw. If there's any actual missing parts to the film's story, I want to see it implemented into the movie itself via an extended cut. I see absolutely nothing to be gained from remaking the entire thing with less staff, time and money. At least with Battle of Gods and Resurrection F you had the excuse of Dragon Ball not really being "back" yet and like five characters being introduced. The most that Broly needs is a flashback whenever Team Broly gets brought back into the story, which I feel may not even happen immediately.
I dunno, if nothing else, Bardock's rebellion just kinda came outta nowhere and lasted all of 10 seconds, it felt like there was material cut there.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:06 am

Well if they do retell Broly, I'm already expecting an episode where they extend the 5 minute scene of Goku and vegeta trying to fuse while Broly beats the crap out of Freeza. Actually that would be hilarious.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by PremiumSalt » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:12 am

GreatSaiyaJeff wrote:Well if they do retell Broly, I'm already expecting an episode where they extend the 5 minute scene of Goku and vegeta trying to fuse while Broly beats the crap out of Freeza. Actually that would be hilarious.
Oh yeah that'll be an entire episode.
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Kunzait_83 wrote:No matter what twisted pretzel logic you contort yourself into to try and convince yourself otherwise, Raditz landing on Earth is the middle of the fucking story. Zero context, zero setup. Its in NO way meant to be seen as a "beginning point" for ANYTHING other than the next story arc. It flows precisely and fluidly from where things left off in the aftermath of the 23rd Budokai and mostly hits the ground running from there without really stopping to look back. You're plopping someone into the middle of a book starting at chapter 195 out of 519 for absolutely no good goddamn reason, with very minimal opportunity to look back at much needed context and character/story growth.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Michsi » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:53 am

PFM18 wrote:
KinguKurimuzon wrote:
Michsi wrote:Oddly enough I actually would like them to start with a retelling of the movie this time. I think this is our only chance to see stuff that was initially part of the three hour long script they had to shorten.
The last thing I wanna see is another movie retelling. I'd rather they release an extended cut of the movie when it comes out on home video.
An extended cut wouldn't be enough. They cut out half of Toriyama's script/storyboards. We are missing the other half, and just about everything in it felt rushed. Making it more gradual would add so much to this story. And, it would be able to keep continuity with the anime by using SSBKK and SSBE in it.
.
Was it Toriyama's though? I seem to remember that the first script Toriyama submitted was actually really short and I was under the impression that Toei staff were the ones to flesh it out. They then cut parts of it out to fit the designated run time.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:04 am

Michsi wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
KinguKurimuzon wrote: The last thing I wanna see is another movie retelling. I'd rather they release an extended cut of the movie when it comes out on home video.
An extended cut wouldn't be enough. They cut out half of Toriyama's script/storyboards. We are missing the other half, and just about everything in it felt rushed. Making it more gradual would add so much to this story. And, it would be able to keep continuity with the anime by using SSBKK and SSBE in it.
.
Was it Toriyama's though? I seem to remember that the first script Toriyama submitted was actually really short and I was under the impression that Toei staff were the ones to flesh it out. They then cut parts of it out to fit the designated run time.
No, it was explicitly Toriyama's script turned into a storyboard. The storyboard of Toriyama's script was 3 hours long. So yeah, it was Toei's "fleshed out" only in the sense that they storyboarded it, but that's not really what "fleshed out" normally refers to.
Shaddy wrote: We would benefit from knowing what was cut, but wasting time and resources on incorporating a movie everyone's already seen into a new show people are supposed to be hyped for is not that. Without definitive proof that what that was was sooooo amazingly poignant and important that it deserves six or seven extra episodes of story that's already been told with better production values, I have to say that there's no reason to not just jump into a new story with the potential to be good on it's own.
I don't see how expansion of an already good story can be a bad thing. The additions story wise don't have to be "amazingly poignant" in order to make a retelling worth it, only reason not to is impatience, really. The continuity with the anime, the pacing, and the incorporation of the other half of Toriyama's script makes a retelling more than worthwhile in and of itself, regardless of whether or not what was left out is some groundbreaking information.
You're saying it doesn't matter what was cut, but also feel the need to point out what the cut material could have been to justify it. I can't say that I even particularly want to see anything you've suggested here. None of this really improves the biggest problems with the story.
The biggest problems were the pacing and the tension which both could easily be fixed in a retelling, and to some extent are intertwined with each other.
Then it's very likely that there weren't actually a significant amount of writing elements that were left out, which I've been saying. That's why I constantly specify that it was Nagamine's storyboard that was 3 hours, not necessarily Toriyama's script. If you're cutting that much and still end up with a film as good as the one we got, I cannot bring myself to believe that what was cut was such a horrible loss, it more than likely improved the movie.
What I have been saying is that irrespective of how significant these Toriyama writing elements are, a retelling would be worth it. The story can only benefit from being expanded upon, and there's a plethora of scenes that are in desperate need of more time given how clearly rushed they were. Bardock's rebellion for example, was obviously cut considering he randomly has damage on himself and his little "struggle" was extremely brief and insignificant.
Saiga wrote:While Gohan's absence is pretty conspicuous after the TOP - he got back into shape and wanted to fight to protect people, so why doesn't he get involved when he feels such a huge battle going on? It's just weird.

But I don't know why you'd expect to see Kuririn or especially Tenshinhan show up.
Just for the sake of showing the whole cast in a sort of slice of life setting to ease into the arc. It's just like with BoG, we see everyone at Bulma's party before the action commences, even though Kuririn and Tenshinhan aren't relevant fighters anymore. I didn't mean they should show up to the battlefield.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" CONTINUATION - Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Michsi » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:26 am

PFM18 wrote:
Michsi wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
An extended cut wouldn't be enough. They cut out half of Toriyama's script/storyboards. We are missing the other half, and just about everything in it felt rushed. Making it more gradual would add so much to this story. And, it would be able to keep continuity with the anime by using SSBKK and SSBE in it.
.
Was it Toriyama's though? I seem to remember that the first script Toriyama submitted was actually really short and I was under the impression that Toei staff were the ones to flesh it out. They then cut parts of it out to fit the designated run time.
No, it was explicitly Toriyama's script turned into a storyboard. The storyboard of Toriyama's script was 3 hours long. So yeah, it was Toei's "fleshed out" only in the sense that they storyboarded it, but that's not really what "fleshed out" normally refers to.
I looked a bit around and they did indeed then say that they pretty much took and worked with Toriyama's script "as is" but that they couldn't adapt everything from it as that version would be too long. I was hoping the longer script would have more plot elements and not just, say, character moments.

But I'll take character moments, too.

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