Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by funrush » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:37 am

I think the Trunks/Mai relationship is easily one of the worst parts of Super, if I'd remove anything it's that.

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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by ruler9871 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:26 am

funrush wrote:I think the Trunks/Mai relationship is easily one of the worst parts of Super, if I'd remove anything it's that.
As if Goku x Chichi is any better..........

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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by Rubens » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:56 am

For me it would be Bulma's sister, Jaco and the Pilaf gang.
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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by Trouser » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:05 am

- Pilaf and Shu. Their forced shenanigans partly destroyed my investment in Future Trunks Arc. I'm fine with Mai. She seems to be nice without those two around.
- Kale and Caulifla. I just hate everything about them except designs.
- Ribrianne. Her whole "love thing" annoys me to the point that I've had been skipping through episodes with her. It was my first time skipping through DB, I've never done that before.
- ZenOh's. At first they were cute, but later they become annoying to me with these "oooh", "aaah", and "sugoi!".
- Frieza. Lately he is being shoehorned into everything. I do like him as a character, but I wish he would stay on the sidelines for a little while.
- Son Gohan. Let him be what he always wanted to be - a scholar.
- Gotenks. I wish Trunks and Goten become strong characters on their own without fusion.

That's all.
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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:26 am

prince212 wrote:Monaka didn’t have too many screen time , I don’t know why all the blame on him . To me he was one of the most remarkable things in u6 vs u7 arc ...
I don’t wish any character to be removed , may be just don’t give Krillin too much stupid screen time , Zenos anime reaction was bad to me too .. but .. it’s for the kids at Sunday morning I guess
Really Indeed Prince212 this is My Philosophy when it comes to characters of near any Medium or Genre in storytelling. I mainly grew on this threw Comic Book characters, Marvel especially, with all the debates that go on in comic fandoms makes Kanzenshuu's most active days look look like a lazy Sunday afternoon. :lol:

But really unless writers have not active interest or intent of writing a character good to progress them, besides that, any character should be given a chance to be written and progress forward, to be used and not taken away from the story, mythos or especially the fans. It allows the character a chance to grow in the eyes of the world of that Genre and fandom, fixing problems and gain new liking for them that just taking them away honest will not fix if their is an intent on making them better.

Indeed in all I would not want any character taken away, only improved and enhanced to better them. But Mostly, it is good to keep an open mind on all characters to gain a better appreciation of characters you might not have thought you would have liked, to gain the most one can out of a story, expand the uniqueness of the world and to grow yourself personally in your own fandom and wisdom of the Medium. :idea:
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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by TobyS » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:04 pm

Vegeta and Goku fucking so tired of these dullards.

In twenty years vegeta managed to turn from “a total prick” to “slightly less of a prick”.

Goku has been stagnant since the buu arc. Toei regresses them both sometimes.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by ironfist2020 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:37 pm

omaro34 wrote:The Human fighters.

Piccolo as well. They clearly have no idea what to with him. They should have him have one last hoorah before leaving Earth for New Namek and disappearing there.
they can make him relevent in any time if they wanted to. if they wanted him to train with whis and make up a ''super namekian god'' transformation. at this point with goku switching hair color every monday that will not be over the top.

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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:04 pm

Majin Boo.

Toriyama pulled the rug from underneath him twice for a stupid gag. And he ultimately doesn't provide anything of interest to the plot.

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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by dragon boss z » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:52 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote: Broly - What takes place in movies should stay in movies, that's what i think. Otherwise we might get another pointless retelling like BoG and RoF.
I don’t understand this concept. There is no need for retellings, if a fan didn’t take the time to go see the movie, which is a way bigger event than any single episode, chances are they don’t watch every episode religiously anyways. Not to mention they can just play the movie on TV like they did with RoF or anyone can just watch it for free online. A good quality version of the movie was already put on YouTube plus there is always the anime sites online. It’s not like people don’t know the movie exists, if they decide not to watch a movie marketed as an official continuation and then wonder why they are lost when watching the show, I question their critical thinking skills, and if we are talking about children who watch, they don’t care about the story, kids just jump in and watch random episodes when they can.

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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by Green_Goblin » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:43 am

1) Android 17: there was no need to push him over the top in the Tournament of Power, it was so forced it made a lot of people hope he'll be eliminated in the next episode to come - if he'd be SSJ 2 tier it'd be still too much but not that exaggerated as it was layed on us.
2) Universe 6's Saiyans (especially Kale and Caulifla).
3) Universe 2's Kamikaze Fireballs..
4) Frieza - he served his purpose, no need to link him to any new story or higher god hierearchy just because he held some portion of Universe 7 (not it's entirety) under his iron fist in less than 60 years (after now being established as a "child" by Age 732).

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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by The Monkey King » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:10 am

The Pilaf Gang. No contest
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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by Toxin45 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:27 am

Trouser wrote:- Pilaf and Shu. Their forced shenanigans partly destroyed my investment in Future Trunks Arc. I'm fine with Mai. She seems to be nice without those two around.
- Kale and Caulifla. I just hate everything about them except designs.
- Ribrianne. Her whole "love thing" annoys me to the point that I've had been skipping through episodes with her. It was my first time skipping through DB, I've never done that before.
- ZenOh's. At first they were cute, but later they become annoying to me with these "oooh", "aaah", and "sugoi!".
- Frieza. Lately he is being shoehorned into everything. I do like him as a character, but I wish he would stay on the sidelines for a little while.
- Son Gohan. Let him be what he always wanted to be - a scholar.
- Gotenks. I wish Trunks and Goten become strong characters on their own without fusion.

That's all.
Nope never gonna happen.

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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by TekTheNinja » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:41 pm

Personally not on board with the idea of "They've handled this classic character poorly so they should get rid of them". The just need to DO BETTER and stop humiliating the old cast.
ruler9871 wrote:
Kataphrut wrote:I'm not going to pick any minor characters like Goten, Chi Chi or any of the Tournament of Power nobodies because what would be the point? They don't add much, but their presence doesn't hurt the story either. The one minor character I want removed is Gotenks because he's the worst, and I already got my wish.

So I'd pick Beerus and Vegeta. Of all the main characters, they're stuck in the biggest rut. Every arc, Vegeta is training to surpass Goku even though he won't, and Goku is training to surpass Beerus, which he also won't. Everything is running in circles. Also not helping is the overuse of food gags for Beerus, and both of them being tsunderes. Put them on the bench, trade out for some new second leads, change up the dynamics. You can keep Whis and Bulma though, they're fun.
By that logic, Goku himself should also be put out of the series since he has been stale as a character after the Cell Games.
I mean to be honest... Yes. I've wanted them to take Goku's character in a new direction, preferably as a mentor to Uub, for a while now, but if they have no plans the change the status quo at all, Goku's just become sorta boring.
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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by ruler9871 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:50 pm

TobyS wrote:Vegeta and Goku fucking so tired of these dullards.

In twenty years vegeta managed to turn from “a total prick” to “slightly less of a prick”.

Goku has been stagnant since the buu arc. Toei regresses them both sometimes.
Being a prick is exactly why Vegeta is popular. Making him another generic nice guy hero (like the Humans) would ruin him.

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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by BWri » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:38 pm

AnzuMazaki wrote: Earth (Sans Bulma), Trunks, Goten, Gohan and Piccolo are not as marketable outside "funny MemeZ" as I would love them to be.
That's only because Toriyama-san doesn't give them any exciting developments. Gohan was THE most popular character at one point and Piccolo's always been close to the top of the popularity polls even when he's doing very little in the story. Goten and Trunks were very popular as well when they had a big part in the story. I've never been a huge fan of Goten and Trunks but since Toriyama's created them and already made them ridiculously powerful, he could at least write some adventures for them to go on or use them more.

And the funny thing is, I think Toriyama could easily make a Gohan spinoff manga that he would enjoy writing centering around Gohan's life and superhero persona. Seems like something lighthearted that he'd really like.
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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by BWri » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:57 pm

TysonWine wrote:
ruler9871 wrote:
Simere wrote:Gogeta and Vegetto. Fusion is a pall over good storytelling.

I'd say Kafla too if I considered seeing Caulifla and Kale again likely.
Vegito was one of the highlights of the Black arc and Gogeta was one for the Broly film. Kefla is a more likable character than both Caulifla and Kale.
Could you explain why you feel this way? I saw them as being the same person. Kale's completely drowned out but Caulifla's dominant personality. I'm not a big fan of the U6 Saiyans but if I had to choose between Caulifla and Kale, and just Kelfa, i'd take the pair that already have an established relationship.
To start with, fusions in general are just cool and produce a lot of hype in the community. Point 1.

Point 2 is the fact that Kefla's design is much better than the other two, taking the best elements of both. Califla and Kale seem absolutely drab in comparison.

Point 3 goes to the unique attacks Toei created for her which rounded out her fighting style. Believe it or not, unique fighting styles and techniques endear characters to many of the DB faithful. That's why Hit is more fondly considered than Jiren despite both having the personalities of a brick wall.

And Point 4 goes to the fact that she's relevant strength-wise and that to a degree she's earned that strength, well not really but kinda due to the nature of fusion. People can accept a fusion being crazy strong over a person coming out of nowhere and gaining one transformation to make them seemingly top tier. I think people accept DBS Broly's strength only because we've already seen Kale's berserk form (plus you can't much take strength scaling seriously nowadays anyway).

TobyS wrote:Vegeta and Goku fucking so tired of these dullards.

In twenty years vegeta managed to turn from “a total prick” to “slightly less of a prick”.

Goku has been stagnant since the buu arc. Toei regresses them both sometimes.
I pretty much have to agree. Vegeta, if anything, is becoming more like Piccolo (probably why he's going higher up my character rankings) which makes sense, but we already have Piccolo, so IDK. Overall though, I've been enjoying his growth as a family man but he needs more opportunities to show his ruthless side, because I can't see him 100% dropping all those traits. Toriyama san really needs to start creating more secondary villains for Vegeta to kill.

But yeah, overall I think you could add any Goku and Vegeta archetypes from any other shonen into their Super roles and the show wouldn't change the show very much. That's a problem IMO. Goku doesn't have the presence that he used to have in DB and DBZ. He can't hold much attention on his own.
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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by supersaiyanZero » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:21 pm

I'd love to see the "Goku is a retard" shtick to stop bieng a thing. It's not goku and never was.

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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by SsjCookie » Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:03 am

BWri wrote:
AnzuMazaki wrote: Earth (Sans Bulma), Trunks, Goten, Gohan and Piccolo are not as marketable outside "funny MemeZ" as I would love them to be.
That's only because Toriyama-san doesn't give them any exciting developments. Gohan was THE most popular character at one point and Piccolo's always been close to the top of the popularity polls even when he's doing very little in the story. Goten and Trunks were very popular as well when they had a big part in the story. I've never been a huge fan of Goten and Trunks but since Toriyama's created them and already made them ridiculously powerful, he could at least write some adventures for them to go on or use them more.

And the funny thing is, I think Toriyama could easily make a Gohan spinoff manga that he would enjoy writing centering around Gohan's life and superhero persona. Seems like something lighthearted that he'd really like.

I always wished to see a spin off of the next generation (Gohan, kid Trunks, Goten, Pan, Marron and Bra) too give them the character development they deserve.

I also loved to see a Future trunks spin-off that revolves purely on his universe and time-line.

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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by Kataphrut » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:49 am

TekTheNinja wrote:Personally not on board with the idea of "They've handled this classic character poorly so they should get rid of them". The just need to DO BETTER and stop humiliating the old cast.
ruler9871 wrote:
Kataphrut wrote:I'm not going to pick any minor characters like Goten, Chi Chi or any of the Tournament of Power nobodies because what would be the point? They don't add much, but their presence doesn't hurt the story either. The one minor character I want removed is Gotenks because he's the worst, and I already got my wish.

So I'd pick Beerus and Vegeta. Of all the main characters, they're stuck in the biggest rut. Every arc, Vegeta is training to surpass Goku even though he won't, and Goku is training to surpass Beerus, which he also won't. Everything is running in circles. Also not helping is the overuse of food gags for Beerus, and both of them being tsunderes. Put them on the bench, trade out for some new second leads, change up the dynamics. You can keep Whis and Bulma though, they're fun.
By that logic, Goku himself should also be put out of the series since he has been stale as a character after the Cell Games.
I mean to be honest... Yes. I've wanted them to take Goku's character in a new direction, preferably as a mentor to Uub, for a while now, but if they have no plans the change the status quo at all, Goku's just become sorta boring.
Totally Not Mark put out a really good video the other day about why Goku suits the protagonist role so well despite being a flat character. (link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns2GvGSBsok&t=0s). If you don't feel like watching it, basically the gist of it is that Goku works because he starts the story already secure in his outlook, and development mostly comes from other characters like Piccolo and Vegeta reacting to him and changing as a result. Sure he's had development and maturation (training under Roshi, losing to Jackie Chun, accepting his Saiyan heritage, etc) but those are just things that happened that changed his perspective in subtle ways. They haven't meant the end of his arc. Meanwhile, characters like Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan etc are difficult to keep going because their arcs are already complete.

That's why I think Vegeta needs to go. Unlike the other characters, Super continues to insist on using him even though he's past the peak of his development, and hasn't been able to come up with anything new. At best it's constant reminders that he's actually a good person now ("MY BULMA") at worst you get the garbage Final Explosion rehash against Toppo. If that's all they're going to do with him, I see no reason for him to stick around. Give Goku some new foils to bounce off. Super's introduced a bunch of potential candidates, or they could come up with someone new.

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Re: Characters you wish were completely removed from Super/sequels

Post by ruler9871 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:20 pm

Kataphrut wrote:
TekTheNinja wrote:Personally not on board with the idea of "They've handled this classic character poorly so they should get rid of them". The just need to DO BETTER and stop humiliating the old cast.
ruler9871 wrote:
By that logic, Goku himself should also be put out of the series since he has been stale as a character after the Cell Games.
I mean to be honest... Yes. I've wanted them to take Goku's character in a new direction, preferably as a mentor to Uub, for a while now, but if they have no plans the change the status quo at all, Goku's just become sorta boring.
Totally Not Mark put out a really good video the other day about why Goku suits the protagonist role so well despite being a flat character. (link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns2GvGSBsok&t=0s). If you don't feel like watching it, basically the gist of it is that Goku works because he starts the story already secure in his outlook, and development mostly comes from other characters like Piccolo and Vegeta reacting to him and changing as a result. Sure he's had development and maturation (training under Roshi, losing to Jackie Chun, accepting his Saiyan heritage, etc) but those are just things that happened that changed his perspective in subtle ways. They haven't meant the end of his arc. Meanwhile, characters like Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan etc are difficult to keep going because their arcs are already complete.

That's why I think Vegeta needs to go. Unlike the other characters, Super continues to insist on using him even though he's past the peak of his development, and hasn't been able to come up with anything new. At best it's constant reminders that he's actually a good person now ("MY BULMA") at worst you get the garbage Final Explosion rehash against Toppo. If that's all they're going to do with him, I see no reason for him to stick around. Give Goku some new foils to bounce off. Super's introduced a bunch of potential candidates, or they could come up with someone new.
The assumption that a recurring character should only have/reduced to one character arc is a major sign of bad, shallow writing.

People who think stuff like "that character's arc is finish" are part of the problem. The only time a recurring character's development should end is when either they are permanently written off or when the whole story itself ends.

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