Would there be any potential in Baby or the Evil Dragons being made “canon”?

[WittyUsername]

If, for whatever reason, Toriyama was convinced into giving his own spin on villains from GT like Baby or the Evil Dragons, what do you think would be the best direction to go in? Would there be any story potential in using them, or should they just be left alone?

[KingKaash]

The Baby concept was nice. I mainly just want a Tuffle backstory and for the Tuffles to get some sort of revenge.

[WittyUsername]

The Baby concept was nice. I mainly just want a Tuffle backstory and for the Tuffles to get some sort of revenge.

Personally, I mostly just wouldn’t mind seeing Toriyama’s spin on the whole “Goku’s friends and family are brainwashed” concept. I know that had already been done with the Garlic Jr. arc, but GT handled it so much better, although there were still a few missed opportunities, such as the fact that we never got a scene where Goku was forced to confront a brainwashed Kuririn.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Definitely. Broly has reignited my faith in Toriyama's ability to rework older ideas into more compelling stories.

Toriyama could reboot Baby as a more sympathetic character and for 6 of the heroes to split up fighting the Shadow Dragons before having an Avengers style team up to take on Omega Shenron, and I'd be all for it.

Anyway, could be a while, I expect Cooler to return first, especially now with Freeza back. Can't see the opportunity for a storyline utilizuning both of them being missed.

[Lord Beerus]

The concept of the the Dragon Ball's themselves manifesting into physical being and becoming antagonist is one of the most ingenious story concepts Dragon Ball has ever come up with. I still hold out for the day when some kind of Dragon Ball material adapts that concept to it's full extent, instead of reducing it into a fodder "villain of the week" scenario that or having the angle of blaming the main cast for the creation of the Evil Dragons just using the Dragon Balls, regardless for "good" reasons or "bad".

I wouldn't a retooling of the Baby arc, but I already really like that arc a lot for what it is, so I wouldn't mind it being left untouched

[sunsetshimmer]

I'd rather see those arcs untouched because they are already good and i'm afraid Super would just ruin it.

Shadow Dragons won't work in Super. It was the definitive final arc that had specific feeling to it with mysterious ending of Shenron taking balls away. It showed that 100 years later, dragon balls are just a legend again and except for Pan, probably no one knows they are real. People rebuilt Earth over years by themselves. With Super taking place only few years before EoZ, this feeling can't be replicated. This saga would just feel like "yet another villain to beat" type of saga.

Baby is easier to fit but he isn't as simple and generic character as Broly was. If he was reintroduced only to infect everyone and posess Vegeta again then it would be basically the same story. But without him doing it, he wouldn't really be Baby. It's like rebooting Cell without him absorbing energy and androids to evolve. I guess it would be better to simply reboot Tuffles in general and use concept of them making a revenge instead of reintroducing Baby himself. I mean Hatchiyack used this concept even before Baby, but those were still completely different stories with different characters and Baby isn't Hatchiyack ripoff in any way. So you could kinda say GT already rebooted "Tuffle revenge" concept, so Super could just do the same thing and come with new villain based on the same concept as Hatchiyack and Baby were.

[MKCSTEALTH]

Absolutely. Those were two ideas that I absolutely loved about GT. I think an evil entity given rise from the Dragonballs, or a consequence to the use of the Dragonballs (especially the Super Dragonballs).

As for the Tuffles (Tsfurijins), we already know U2 has a resident Tsfurijin from the ToP, so it'll be interesting to see what a potential U6 race could look like (outside of the Machine Mutant twins from SDBH)

[Apslup]

Oh yes. My general thoughts towards GT is that it has good ideas on paper (mostly), but they were just executed really poorly. I especially want to see the Shadow Dragons again, since they were hardly fleshed out and having consequences for relying on the Dragon Balls for the solution to everything that can't be fixed through fighting is an awesome concept to me. Bringing Baby back is also a great idea, with something that I especially want to see (it's been a fantasy of mine for a while) is for the half-saiyans to be shown all of the wrong doings committed by the Saiyan race and for them to somewhat consciously side with Baby, rejecting their Saiyan heritage. I see this hitting Vegeta pretty hard due to his pride of being a Saiyan and seeing his son completely reject that will be great to watch.

[ironfist2020]

If, for whatever reason, Toriyama was convinced into giving his own spin on villains from GT like Baby or the Evil Dragons, what do you think would be the best direction to go in? Would there be any story potential in using them, or should they just be left alone?

yes i do want something tuffle related but not baby because its like a ripoff of the majin absorbption. make a tuffle survivor but not baby.

[Tai Lung]

probably only the Evil Dragons .. but with the power of zarama or zalama would be absurdly strong

taking into account that opponents are now dioes or beings from another universe besides privileged races with a lot of power makes the race of the tsufurujin feel too mundane now would have made more sense before

although they could make a villain that comes from universe 3, the technological universe that can fulfill a similar function

[Saturnine]

The good thing about the Baby concept is that he's scalable - he can possess someone really powerful to create a relevant threat. I wouldn't go the Tsufurian way though, those guys looked like absolute chumps, so them creating something that crazy would be kinda tough to justify.

As for the Shadow Dragons - do you honestly believe anything spawned by Shenron could even remotely pose a threat for people who hang with the universal god of destruction and know Super Shenron. In fact, it bothered me even back then. I thought that the Shadow Dragons were a cool concept, but knowing how little it took to murder Shenron, they shouldn't be stronger than say, Nappa. And that's Omega Shenron of course. They could be a good training filler arc before the arrival of Nappa and Vegeta, but I simply can't buy them being as strong as they were in GT.

[WeLoveBroly]

Not without super saiyan 4. And not exactly much need tbh Baby and Shadow dragon arcs are great imo.

[Spencer_23]

A Baby arc would be great imo. I already really like the one in GT but a reworking for Super could be cool. If done around the same time period (time skip where Uub is a little older as we Goten/Trunks) it’d be very interesting. And a great chance for Vegeta to save the day from a Tuffle revenge

[garfield15]

I can definitely see some potential in Baby written by Toriyama.

Evil Dragons are a bit more ehhh. I really do not like that positive/negative energy stuff as I never felt like that was a thing in DB. The Dragon Balls are just magic wish orbs and that's all they need to be.

[Alruneia]

They could easily make a good Baby arc (though a new name would probably be for the best). They have to use their characters a bit better than they did in GT, though. Turning Vegeta into a villain again through Baby Vegeta was probably not the best move. Have it be someone else. It could be Frieza, it could be Goku (but probably not due to Goku Black), or if it's sufficiently late and power scaling has come far enough, it could even be Beerus. Imagine that, a Baby Beerus. Pretty scary.
Also:

And a great chance for Vegeta to save the day from a Tuffle revenge

This is another reason why I think it should be someone other than Vegeta. Vegeta saving the day from a tuffle villain would be, as the cool kids apparently say, pottery.

[WittyUsername]

They could easily make a good Baby arc (though a new name would probably be for the best). They have to use their characters a bit better than they did in GT, though. Turning Vegeta into a villain again through Baby Vegeta was probably not the best move. Have it be someone else. It could be Frieza, it could be Goku (but probably not due to Goku Black), or if it's sufficiently late and power scaling has come far enough, it could even be Beerus. Imagine that, a Baby Beerus. Pretty scary.
Also:

And a great chance for Vegeta to save the day from a Tuffle revenge

This is another reason why I think it should be someone other than Vegeta. Vegeta saving the day from a tuffle villain would be, as the cool kids apparently say, pottery.

Goku should definitely not be taken out of the story by being the bad guy’s puppet. He’s the main protagonist of the series.

[Potara-Warrior96]

They could easily make a good Baby arc (though a new name would probably be for the best). They have to use their characters a bit better than they did in GT, though. Turning Vegeta into a villain again through Baby Vegeta was probably not the best move. Have it be someone else. It could be Frieza, it could be Goku (but probably not due to Goku Black), or if it's sufficiently late and power scaling has come far enough, it could even be Beerus. Imagine that, a Baby Beerus. Pretty scary.
Also:

And a great chance for Vegeta to save the day from a Tuffle revenge

This is another reason why I think it should be someone other than Vegeta. Vegeta saving the day from a tuffle villain would be, as the cool kids apparently say, pottery.

I still prefer the idea of Vegeta being made into Bebis host but if I had to choose a secondary it'd probably be Frieza. Both posses a deep rooted hatred for saiyan also it'd be cool if they're relationship was treated something akin to say Eddie Brock and Venom from the Marvel comics. For example Frieza would refer to himself as we to signify his new found symbiotic relationship.

[Green_Goblin]

Baby can now be used to explore the Saiyans' deeper history, since he was probably the Tuffles' king from Vegeta the 1st's time when the Saiyans had subdue Planet Plant and renamed it after their strongest member/leader. Probably will introduce us to Goku and Vegeta's great-grandparents' generation if not before that in his flashbacks upon fighting them in modern day and age. Baby's story can explain why did Vegeta's dynasty became the royalty of the Saiyans and how did they reacted before King Cold annaxed them into his army/empire (probably 2 generations/kings later).

The Evil Dragons on the other hand must be SERVED FOR LAST, since they're the end result of over using the Dragon Balls.

Edit: The only thing I'd change about the Evil Dragons is that even their weakest won't be as pathetic to be harmed by a brick falling on their feet as shown in GT, they should all be leagues above Jiren for the sake of the plot.

[Dbzfan94]

No. As much as I like those ideas, I really want them to try something new instead of just rehashing old stuff

[Timetraveller]

If, for whatever reason, Toriyama was convinced into giving his own spin on villains from GT like Baby or the Evil Dragons, what do you think would be the best direction to go in? Would there be any story potential in using them, or should they just be left alone?

The way GT was done except make a few of the gag dragons more serious and dragon-like. E.g. replacing that mole dragon with an actual dragon. GT did it pretty well.