I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by Shad73 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:43 pm

Man, I am not about to kid you. I have had a friend of mine tell me he saw Broly only having seen BOG and RF and he said it didn’t spoil any Super for him. It was there I could conclude how you could possibly see Broly without having seen or read Super in a lot of cases.
As a result, for the time being? I consider those films a perfect trilogy. I am unapologetic in how while DB Super is my favorite Dragon Ball story, I feel my favorite version is what’s obvious about Toriyama’s ultimate idea. He is not toward the same ability to do what he once was, bless his soul, and yet he has been so generous in giving us such Dragon Ball content across the board.
I’m not about to kid you, though: I came out of the theater saying Broly was perfect and I still hold that opinion. Without debating me on that, I bring you to what I’d really like you to debate me on.

I prefer the trilogy to Nolan’s.

Yes. Battle of Gods, Resurrection ‘F’, and Broly. I prefer that trilogy to the Dark Knight Trilogy. Now debate me! :D :D :D :lol:
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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by Bullza » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:49 pm

The Dark Knight is better than anything this entire franchise could ever begin to hope to come out with.

But yeah as a trilogy of Toriyama Dragon Ball movies, they are some of the best anime movies I've seen.

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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by Shad73 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:36 pm

Bullza wrote:The Dark Knight is better than anything this entire franchise could ever begin to hope to come out with.

But yeah as a trilogy of Toriyama Dragon Ball movies, they are some of the best anime movies I've seen.
The Dark Knight specifically, if you’re so inclined; notwithstanding that it’s animation against live action, I won’t press into that debate. But what about that film in the context of a trilogy that wasn’t even planned? From what I’d heard Nolan did Rises out of contractual obligation more than pure creative desire, and while I don’t dislike the film, I do think its’ place can be challenged for how it works to the trilogy’s effect.
For example, the Dark Knight Rises set a bar WB (using DC as a proxy) couldn’t reach for years after. Broly sets a bar with precedent that allows Dragon Ball afterward to get better if done right, whereas Nolan was more or less a handyman hired to do a job Warner Bros. couldn’t. Much as Aquaman is a strange and happy death of the DCEU, as confirmed by executive press, the DCEU sucks while Super in its’ purest form doesn’t... though I admit, I actually love Dawn of Justice.
We’ve got some great discussion going.
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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:17 am

Personally, I wouldn't consider Battle of Gods, Resurrection F and Broly a trilogy for several reasons:

1. Two are Dragon Ball Z movies and the last is a Dragon Ball Super movie, so as a trilogy they don't work when it comes to branding as they are, by definition marketing different series in the franchise

2. You need to know what happens at the end of the Tournament of Power to follow Broly, so in that sense while I like these three movies I can't classify them as a coherent trilogy as they are not intended to be watched together independent of other material

3. There's no feeling of a beginning, middle and end as all three movies are stories that could be self-contained, so again there is no dependency or flow between them

I also think there's a great chance of us getting another Super movie, so maybe Broly will be the start of a great trilogy, who knows, it was a damn great start to one that's for sure.
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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by Danfun64 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:28 am

I think it's a bit too early to call Z-BoG, Z-Res_'f', and Super Broly a trilogy. The first three DB films are definitely a trilogy. I don't know if DB -> Z -> GT constitutes a trilogy but it's a group of three. The first three Z film are only a trilogy due to their unique status of being dubbed by Pioneer and redubbed during the Ultimate Uncut era. As for the three newest movies, it might be a good idea to wait a few years to see if a new film is announced. At the very least you should wait the same length of time that corresponds to the length in between the announcement of the Res 'F' film and the announcement of the Super Broly film.
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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by Shaddy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:43 am

Are these two things really comparable?
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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by Shad73 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:42 pm

Shaddy wrote:Are these two things really comparable?
If they’re not comparable on the level of their difference in medium, at least I’m going to say that after watching Broly I ended up preferring these three films to the Dark Knight Trilogy. I know, it has roots in potential bias for me being a Broly fan, but let me try to challenge that.

IF these films are to be considered a trilogy, they at least retain a sense of the world their in by very end exhibiting continuum and consequence to follow the events of the finale. Like, Goku will still be a fighter. In no way am I saying this trilogy is the end of what should come, or it’s an official trilogy; I just consider it that way.

However, think: Batman is no longer Batman at the end of the Nolan trilogy, whereas Goku is still a fighter. What kind of resolution is that? That totally makes no sense.
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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by Shad73 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:45 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:Personally, I wouldn't consider Battle of Gods, Resurrection F and Broly a trilogy for several reasons:

1. Two are Dragon Ball Z movies and the last is a Dragon Ball Super movie, so as a trilogy they don't work when it comes to branding as they are, by definition marketing different series in the franchise

2. You need to know what happens at the end of the Tournament of Power to follow Broly, so in that sense while I like these three movies I can't classify them as a coherent trilogy as they are not intended to be watched together independent of other material

3. There's no feeling of a beginning, middle and end as all three movies are stories that could be self-contained, so again there is no dependency or flow between them

I also think there's a great chance of us getting another Super movie, so maybe Broly will be the start of a great trilogy, who knows, it was a damn great start to one that's for sure.
The only counter I’ll pose to #1? There were Super sagas made based off those two movies. And I think that yes, you generally need to have watched Super to watch Broly. However, you need to have watched The Legendary Super Saiyan more than that to qualify. If a person who I know who barely has the time for tv and hasn’t watched Super following the movies can qualify Broly as the best current DB film of all time, then what does that say about the necessity for Super as predecessor for at least the minority?
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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:09 pm

Danfun64 wrote:At the very least you should wait the same length of time that corresponds to the length in between the announcement of the Res 'F' film and the announcement of the Super Broly film.
Broly has nearly made more money than Battle of Gods and Resurrection F combined. Unless the new Super arcs bomb there will be a new movie.
Shad73 wrote:The only counter I’ll pose to #1? There were Super sagas made based off those two movies
As this thread is referring to the movies specifically I don't count the Battle of Gods and Resurrection F arcs as part of this proposed trilogy. Their very existence serves to rebrand the stories they tell as Dragon Ball Super stories but because they are TV arcs and Broly is a movie I wouldn't consider them a cohesive whole.
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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:27 pm

The three movies are definitely the better Dragonball movies of the catalogue. However, better than the Nolan Batman films? No sir. Those are masterpieces. I will say that Broly as a third film is a far better third entry than Dark Knight Rises

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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by Shad73 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:36 am

MKCSTEALTH wrote:The three movies are definitely the better Dragonball movies of the catalogue. However, better than the Nolan Batman films? No sir. Those are masterpieces. I will say that Broly as a third film is a far better third entry than Dark Knight Rises
You see, I can completely understand this opinion. I would suppose that it’s a thing of personal preference in my case, but here I am capable of saying that while there are folks who disagree with me it’s always from a good place of knowing what quality filmmaking looks like.
We can at least agree that the ultimate point I am making is that Dragon Ball has finally risen to being a filmmaking force, if I am even saying I prefer what I view as a trilogy on even a potentially biased level. It can’t be denied that many prior Dragon Ball films are not exactly classic, and yet that Dragon Ball Supet: Broly has become one of the highest grossing anime films of all times only solicits the possibility that bigger is possible.
To be sure, Nolan is in a very total and masterful echelon of filmmaking. But when I look at how these three films make me feel this invested in the franchise it represents and less the films in a vacuum, I feel like the Nolan trilogy did the very opposite of what the MCU did for example and kept itself selfishly glorious. Dragon Ball is not in an MCU-type scenario, but at least Broly invigorates the franchise in that hopefully we’ll look back on Super and not take the post-Resurrection ‘F’ crap that passed for anime initially.
On some level, I feel as though The Dark Knight Trilogy set a bar too high for DC in film. While Dragon Ball Super: Broly set a high bar, it had precedent in a very difficultly watchable anime that was supposed to follow two big films. Because Broly is the current height of Super as story or even simply product, it means we’ll want higher grade material from the franchise. It doesn’t have to be like Broly all the time, but at least we can steadily climb.
With Nolan, it doesn’t seem you can have that precedent evolve into anything but a constant critical acclaim. Those films are masterpieces, but they are very selfish films in that they don’t think of the implications or consequence on the franchise they inhabit. It’s like the Trilogy as an entity was made to exist emptily and overflowingly in DC and out of DC in that you could certainly have Bane, but there would be no room for a Superman in a world this realistically inclined. It’s almost too realistic for the genre it’s in, and it doesn’t seem like WB cares to try and build up to where a Superman in a Nolan-similar world could be possible.
Dragon Ball is not realistic, but in Communications there’s a concept called ‘relative realism.’ With that in mind, the relative realism of Dragon Ball still relates to martial arts at its’ base and the idea of life force, or chi. In no way am I saying that these films are objectively better than the DK Trilogy; I hope I’ve made clear I’ve only stated preference.
However, Dragon Ball in these films evolved from the cognitive (the idea Dragon Ball as a franchise could be revived by two simple films) to the sensual (the fact Dragon Ball had been back for a few years and now it was time for fans to receive payoff on a nearly physical level). That Broly was the payoff of the first two’ films goal means that if Toriyama died, Toei went bankrupt or vice versa and DB ended as a story for good, it would be one hell of a place to end. But luckily it doesn’t end there, and we have more Dragon Ball to come.
Still, it is the third film in a renaissance of Dragon Ball that has most commercially successfully occurred through film, or in the case of the Super a filmic Tournament of Power hying back to DBZ glory days. Therefore, Dragon Ball has entered into the age of the franchise’s most cinematic version.

Sorry if I’m boring; I’m just thinking out loud.
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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:46 pm

I prefer the Dragon Ball Super trilogy to the Home Alone trilogy.

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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:47 am

Broly is good, the other two are really bad. Like really really bad. It took Freeza coming back in the U.S arc to make ResF not feel like a waste . BoG the retelling does a much better job at doing things the movie promised but never fulfilled on. Not to mention the other two films are poorly directed, have mediocre or downright awful action.

That said I don't really see how you can compare anime to live action at all. Incidentally I recently watched The Dark Knight in IMAX and it still holds up very strong to this day!

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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by TekTheNinja » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:43 am

Odd comparison, but I always found the Nolan Batman trilogy VASTLY overrated. Begins is meh. Dark Knight is pretty good. Rises is terrible.
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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by Jackalope89 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:54 am

I agree with the OP.

The Nolan Trilogy does have its moments, sure. But, I just never found it to be as great as other people said.

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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by 90sDBZ » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:17 pm

The 2 trilogies are really too different to compare (if you can even call the last 3 DB movies a trilogy). Also BoG and RF were technically Z movies, not Super, and aren't canon to Broly (the retellings are instead).

I do enjoy all 3 of the recent DB movies though, and will likely watch them as a trilogy regardless of canon.

I love the Nolan Trilogy, but I must be one of the few people who thought The Dark Knight was slightly overrated, while Batman Begins was and still is underrated and the better film overall. The Dark Knight gets praised for being hugely influential to the genre with its dark and gritty tone, but Batman Begins did it first and went under a lot of peoples radars.

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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:35 pm

Though BoG and RF should have been labeled Dragon Ball Super movies, they're officially Dragon Ball Z despite that it doesn't fit with the other Z movies. So, as such, Broly is the first Super movie.

There's no Super "trilogy" as of yet.

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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by PFM18 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:52 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:Though BoG and RF should have been labeled Dragon Ball Super movies, they're officially Dragon Ball Z despite that it doesn't fit with the other Z movies. So, as such, Broly is the first Super movie.

There's no Super "trilogy" as of yet.
They were on the "Z label" but they exist separately from all of the DBZ movies. They fall under the "modern DB" title, and are essentially just a different version of Super.

The phrase "Super trilogy" definitely fits here.

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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by Muffin Man » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:24 pm

I haven't seen the Broly movie yet, but BoG and RoF have such barebones plots that it baffles me that anyone would compare them to Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.

BoG is literally just "Beerus shows up out of nowhere and demands to fight the Super Saiyan God, Vegeta tries to keep him entertained by doing silly dances and stuff until Buu refuses to share his pudding, then everyone gets owned by Beerus until Goku shows up and turns into the Super Saiyan God out of nowhere, which lets him sort of match an arbitrary percentage of Beerus's power so Beerus decides to spare Earth".


RoF is even worse, as the plot is literally just "Frieza comes back to life and the Z-fighters fight him and his minions for awhile, until Goku finally stops dicking around and kills Frieza easily".

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Re: I Prefer the Dragon Ball Super Trilogy to Nolan’s

Post by Shad73 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:45 pm

The first two movies in retrospect have the flaws any Dragon Ball film first made after years of hiatus, whether you either gate-keepingly reviewed using Z or retro-actively reviewed using Super. However, that there is no solid absolute truth as to whether they are Z or Super allows their sagas to be seen as both Z and Super. They also, like Super, take place before the manga’s end.
They may have been marketed as two Z films, but their anime saga counterparts were not; those were marketed as Super sagas. “Super trilogy” is fair for now, until it becomes a series.

Again, only my opinion.
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