Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by TobyS » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:55 pm

[quote="BWri"]Quite a few characters really, but the worst one had to be Tien. In the lead up and the tourney itself, everyone got to do something cool, but Tien was made to look a fool at every turn. Some would say at least he got some eliminations, but this is the most watered down his character has ever been and what should legitimately be the strongest "Earthling" with the most creative and unique techniques is made to look like a one trick pony. Tien was the Vegeta of DB. Imagine if Vegeta got treated like this in a new series.

Other than that, every other universe looked pretty weak compared to U7. Just look at the elimination chart.[/quote

Even if people aren't fans of his, it's objectivly him. Brought out of obscurity just to get owned. Didn't do anything in the manga, I do like how Freeza used them as pawns and I appreciate the power scaling but throw the humans a bone and let them take out at least one fodder each, what's it to ya toyo!

The anime is arguably worse, he gets a fair fight and then looks like an idiot walking close to the edge of the arena.

They made a big deal about the saiyan kids being less experienced than weaker adult fighters, yet they literally had Ten and Kuririn let their guards down like newbs.

If anything knowing their relative strength is not that high they should be MORE careful than Goku et al.

I'd have multi form Ten grow arms, go kaioken, fire a tonne of dodonpas then merge back together for a kaioken neo kikoho once they got close, later have him get speed blitzed by frost, perhaps while weakened after that through no fault of his own, but frost still looks cruel and sneaky, no one has to look bad to make someone look good.

I came up with that in like ten seconds after watching the ep, yet the entire staff couldn't? sheesh.

Ten wins this thread. All the new characters were unkowns, we don't know what potential they had to be wasted, afaik they all got what they deserved and their losses were in character.

Vegeta got wanked to death, getting a consoloation prize form from no where for no reason at the tail end of the series. Every other rival gets replaced and falls into weakness vegeta doesn't deserve the special treatment he gets. A character used beyond his storytelling/character potential.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by BWri » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:11 am

TobyS wrote:Even if people aren't fans of his, it's objectivly him. Brought out of obscurity just to get owned. Didn't do anything in the manga, I do like how Freeza used them as pawns and I appreciate the power scaling but throw the humans a bone and let them take out at least one fodder each, what's it to ya toyo!

The anime is arguably worse, he gets a fair fight and then looks like an idiot walking close to the edge of the arena.

They made a big deal about the saiyan kids being less experienced than weaker adult fighters, yet they literally had Ten and Kuririn let their guards down like newbs.

If anything knowing their relative strength is not that high they should be MORE careful than Goku et al.

I'd have multi form Ten grow arms, go kaioken, fire a tonne of dodonpas then merge back together for a kaioken neo kikoho once they got close, later have him get speed blitzed by frost, perhaps while weakened after that through no fault of his own, but frost still looks cruel and sneaky, no one has to look bad to make someone look good.

I came up with that in like ten seconds after watching the ep, yet the entire staff couldn't? sheesh.
Nice! At this point they should just let him spam multiform without the drawback. I always thought Tien would find a way to fix that weakness anyway and with him being so low-powered it would be something unique for him and wouldnt seem so haxxed. He could spam multiform, have the clones use the most strenuous version of Kaioken + Kikoho and make new ones when those run out of power. He'd just need enough ki to keep creating the clones. Would have been a brilliant way to show how a low tier fighter like Tien is still relevant through his technical prowess.

Buuuuuuuuuuuut, nope. Tien's an idiot who didn' learn nuffin! As a matter of fact, age seems to have made him more foolish and feeble.
Ten wins this thread. All the new characters were unkowns, we don't know what potential they had to be wasted, afaik they all got what they deserved and their losses were in character.

Vegeta got wanked to death, getting a consoloation prize form from no where for no reason at the tail end of the series. Every other rival gets replaced and falls into weakness vegeta doesn't deserve the special treatment he gets. A character used beyond his storytelling/character potential.
In many ways Vegeta is a shell of a character. Much of his recent personality is similar to Piccolo in Z as is his role. He took the stalling for time to learn the villains backstory schtick straight from Piccolo (vs Moro & Cell respectively). Personally, I think struggling to contain his bloodlust and "do the good thing" would be far more interesting for someone like Vegeta than this stoic carbon copy of Piccolo we're getting. But as long as he's a Saiyan he'll probably never get replaced, though he should be worried about Broly stealing all his spotlight.

I still think Vegeta has potential, but he's being mishandled like everyone else. He's too morally good and too wise and his anime only transformation is THE WORST.
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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by Regarder » Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:53 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote: The reason why manga version of this arc stomps anime version is because all of the trash fighters lose quickly so we can focus on what we really want instead of watching 25 episodes of U7 fighting with bugs, waifus and robots. (although Ribrianne could've lasted slightly longer in manga)
This just shows why the ToP was a bad idea though. In the end, the anime couldn't portray a proper battle royale right and had to wall off most of the fights with debris, and then the manga skips over most of them undermining the premise.

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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by Torturephile » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:45 pm

Universe 2:
Universe 3:
Universe 4:
Universe 6:
Universe 7:
Universe 9:
Universe 10:
Universe 11:

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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:20 pm

Torturephile wrote:Universe 2:
--- ADMIN NOTE: THIS SIGNATURE IS FAR TOO LONG. PLEASE REDUCE IN SIZE. ---
Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!”:clap:
Brianne De Chateau/Ribrianne!
My #1 in DB!
:thumbup:

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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by Kagari » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:03 am

Piccolo wasn't babysitting Gohan. In fact it was Gohan who was covering for him most of the time.

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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:15 pm

Torturephile wrote:
Ayumu Hisao also wrote Episode 126. Another noticeable stinker in the Tournament Of Power, and one of the worst written episode in the anime series. But I know a lot of Dragon Ball fans that LOVE that episode because of its shameless pandering to Vegeta.

It's safe to that Ayumu Hisao isn't a good writer.

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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by Torturephile » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:50 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Torturephile wrote:
Ayumu Hisao also wrote Episode 126. Another noticeable stinker in the Tournament Of Power, and one of the worst written episode in the anime series. But I know a lot of Dragon Ball fans that LOVE that episode because of its shameless pandering to Vegeta.

It's safe to that Ayumu Hisao isn't a good writer.
I think I made a mistake in mentioning he wrote episode 106. He only wrote 126 and 119.

I can see why they liked episode 126 as the idea of Vegeta beating GoD Toppo is exciting, but yes, it was done poorly, specially since it relied in a poor attempt of the heroic second wind that reminds me of Cabba's in episode 112, which was triggered by Vegeta, and the whole latter part of the fight was another reference to Z.

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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by ruler9871 » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:22 pm

BWri wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:11 am
TobyS wrote:Even if people aren't fans of his, it's objectivly him. Brought out of obscurity just to get owned. Didn't do anything in the manga, I do like how Freeza used them as pawns and I appreciate the power scaling but throw the humans a bone and let them take out at least one fodder each, what's it to ya toyo!

The anime is arguably worse, he gets a fair fight and then looks like an idiot walking close to the edge of the arena.

They made a big deal about the saiyan kids being less experienced than weaker adult fighters, yet they literally had Ten and Kuririn let their guards down like newbs.

If anything knowing their relative strength is not that high they should be MORE careful than Goku et al.

I'd have multi form Ten grow arms, go kaioken, fire a tonne of dodonpas then merge back together for a kaioken neo kikoho once they got close, later have him get speed blitzed by frost, perhaps while weakened after that through no fault of his own, but frost still looks cruel and sneaky, no one has to look bad to make someone look good.

I came up with that in like ten seconds after watching the ep, yet the entire staff couldn't? sheesh.
Nice! At this point they should just let him spam multiform without the drawback. I always thought Tien would find a way to fix that weakness anyway and with him being so low-powered it would be something unique for him and wouldnt seem so haxxed. He could spam multiform, have the clones use the most strenuous version of Kaioken + Kikoho and make new ones when those run out of power. He'd just need enough ki to keep creating the clones. Would have been a brilliant way to show how a low tier fighter like Tien is still relevant through his technical prowess.

Buuuuuuuuuuuut, nope. Tien's an idiot who didn' learn nuffin! As a matter of fact, age seems to have made him more foolish and feeble.
Ten wins this thread. All the new characters were unkowns, we don't know what potential they had to be wasted, afaik they all got what they deserved and their losses were in character.

Vegeta got wanked to death, getting a consoloation prize form from no where for no reason at the tail end of the series. Every other rival gets replaced and falls into weakness vegeta doesn't deserve the special treatment he gets. A character used beyond his storytelling/character potential.
In many ways Vegeta is a shell of a character. Much of his recent personality is similar to Piccolo in Z as is his role. He took the stalling for time to learn the villains backstory schtick straight from Piccolo (vs Moro & Cell respectively). Personally, I think struggling to contain his bloodlust and "do the good thing" would be far more interesting for someone like Vegeta than this stoic carbon copy of Piccolo we're getting. But as long as he's a Saiyan he'll probably never get replaced, though he should be worried about Broly stealing all his spotlight.

I still think Vegeta has potential, but he's being mishandled like everyone else. He's too morally good and too wise and his anime only transformation is THE WORST.
BWri wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:11 am

I still think Vegeta has potential, but he's being mishandled like everyone else. He's too morally good and too wise and his anime only transformation is THE WORST.
Blue Evolution is one of the few power-ups in post-Z DB that actually makes sense, and one of the few in the whole franchise that has any actual character behind it. I don't get why so many people hate it (other than just being Vegeta-haters), yet are okay with BS like Gotenks getting SSJ3 just be thinking about it.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by BWri » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:33 am

ruler9871 wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:22 pm
Blue Evolution is one of the few power-ups in post-Z DB that actually makes sense, and one of the few in the whole franchise that has any actual character behind it. I don't get why so many people hate it (other than just being Vegeta-haters)
Blue Evolution isn't Dragon Ball and it isn't Vegeta. This is all my point of view, so hear me out. Blue Evolution is a form Vegeta gets by what, thinking of his family and distant friend Cabba, a character he's only met two times now btw. He doesn't even care about the Saiyans of his own universe, those he grew up with. That whole concept of fighting for the friends he barely knows and keeping promises yadda yadda would sound perfect coming from any other generic shonen protagonist but from Vegeta it sounds hollow. It's like he's dancing to the tune of someone else, being puppeted by the writers instead of controlling his own destiny. And this is like the second power boost he got in like 3 episodes. At least the pride powerup he got earlier was more in character.

And powerups for friends isn't exactly a DB thing either like in other shonen. Yeah, Goku went SSJ when Frieza killed Krillin, but that was only after tapping into his rage. Gohan didn't go SSJ2 when his friends were getting beat to death, it took the speech from #16 for Gohan to realize pacificism wasn't always the answer and was what he needed to access his own inner rage. With Vegeta in the anime for SSJ1, it was hopelessness and rage directed at himself for his shortcomings. Other forms were gained through training.

Think about how awesome it was when Vegeta went Super Saiyan for the first time on-screen and his explanation of how he got it. I'm not the biggest Vegeta fan, but I got chills watching that scene. His reasoning made sense for his character 100% and it was earned. I'm not saying Vegeta needs to go back to those days because he's well past them but now he seems a shell of his former self or even a new character living in his body.

Also the design of SSBE is hideous, thrown together haphazardly from previous ideas and clearly not made by Toriyama-san. It screams fan-pandering and was made to give Vegeta something that Goku doesn't have to appease Vegeta fans. Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% for Vegeta getting his own cool stuff, because he gets shafted enough in this department, but this wasn't the right form for him. I like the color but that's about it. The sparkles are just weird when combined with the muscles. Sparkles also look like a cheap AE effect. But I get the feeling that many Vegeta fans would be fine with anything as long as he gets it before or instead of Goku.
yet are okay with BS like Gotenks getting SSJ3 just be thinking about it.
I think people are okay with Gotenks' forms because fusions are magic based. I'm not the biggest Gotenks fan, so I'm not going to attempt to justify it beyond that. I don't really like all these Saiyan transformation multipliers to begin with. SSJ3 was my limit, everything after feels forced for merchandising purposes. I've warmed up to SSG, still hate SSB, UI didn't need to be a new form with white hair. I did like UI Omen, though still, it's a technique not a form. I've been saying that any new forms should be subtle like this for years now. Just change the eye color/shape and aura and call it a day. Hair is always too much and makes no sense.
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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:52 am

BWri wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:33 am
ruler9871 wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:22 pm
Blue Evolution is one of the few power-ups in post-Z DB that actually makes sense, and one of the few in the whole franchise that has any actual character behind it. I don't get why so many people hate it (other than just being Vegeta-haters)
Blue Evolution isn't Dragon Ball and it isn't Vegeta. This is all my point of view, so hear me out. Blue Evolution is a form Vegeta gets by what, thinking of his family and distant friend Cabba, a character he's only met two times now btw. He doesn't even care about the Saiyans of his own universe, those he grew up with. That whole concept of fighting for the friends he barely knows and keeping promises yadda yadda would sound perfect coming from any other generic shonen protagonist but from Vegeta it sounds hollow. It's like he's dancing to the tune of someone else, being puppeted by the writers instead of controlling his own destiny. And this is like the second power boost he got in like 3 episodes. At least the pride powerup he got earlier was more in character.

And powerups for friends isn't exactly a DB thing either like in other shonen. Yeah, Goku went SSJ when Frieza killed Krillin, but that was only after tapping into his rage. Gohan didn't go SSJ2 when his friends were getting beat to death, it took the speech from #16 for Gohan to realize pacificism wasn't always the answer and was what he needed to access his own inner rage. With Vegeta in the anime for SSJ1, it was hopelessness and rage directed at himself for his shortcomings. Other forms were gained through training.

Think about how awesome it was when Vegeta went Super Saiyan for the first time on-screen and his explanation of how he got it. I'm not the biggest Vegeta fan, but I got chills watching that scene. His reasoning made sense for his character 100% and it was earned. I'm not saying Vegeta needs to go back to those days because he's well past them but now he seems a shell of his former self or even a new character living in his body.

Also the design of SSBE is hideous, thrown together haphazardly from previous ideas and clearly not made by Toriyama-san. It screams fan-pandering and was made to give Vegeta something that Goku doesn't have to appease Vegeta fans. Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% for Vegeta getting his own cool stuff, because he gets shafted enough in this department, but this wasn't the right form for him. I like the color but that's about it. The sparkles are just weird when combined with the muscles. Sparkles also look like a cheap AE effect. But I get the feeling that many Vegeta fans would be fine with anything as long as he gets it before or instead of Goku.
I'm a bit mixed on SSJB Evolution/Advanced.

Aesthetically speaking, the form is horrendous. But I like the concept behind it. It's Vegeta doing what he does best: brute forcing his way to a higher echelon of power in a moment of desperation. And this time it more based on a selfless desire, which I dug a lot. The form was a physical manifestation of Vegeta's intense desire to not only win the Super Dragon Balls, but to also aid those who meant something to him beyond his inner circle of allies and family.

It was in Episode 126 where Toei went full fan-wank for Vegeta and I deeply resented the form after that.

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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by BWri » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:02 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:52 am
I'm a bit mixed on SSJB Evolution/Advanced.

Aesthetically speaking, the form is horrendous. But I like the concept behind it. It's Vegeta doing what he does best: brute forcing his way to a higher echelon of power in a moment of desperation. And this time it more based on a selfless desire, which I dug a lot. The form was a physical manifestation of Vegeta's intense desire to not only win the Super Dragon Balls, but to also aid those who meant something to him beyond his inner circle of allies and family.

It was in Episode 126 where Toei went full fan-wank for Vegeta and I deeply resented the form after that.
I'm not necessarily opposed to these things, so I suppose it's mainly the presentation is what did it for me. This stuff just fell flat for me. Maybe if Cabba and Vegeta spent more time together to develop a teacher/student bond, instead of it seeming more like an edgy guy showing off his cool tricks to his young fan boy. Maybe if Vegeta cared about the Saiyan race in his own universe, I could buy that he'd have this intense desire to save the Saiyans in universe 6. Maybe if they previously showed us, IDK, Vegeta telling Trunks some Saiyan legends as bedtime stories, I could buy this sudden outburst of selflessness for other universe Saiyans, but man, Super hardly sells me on anything and does the bare minimum to setup big emotional moments.
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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by Michsi » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:04 am

Kagari wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:03 am
Piccolo wasn't babysitting Gohan. In fact it was Gohan who was covering for him most of the time.
106 shows the exact opposite, even if only by accident. Gohan needed Piccolo to figure out the trick behind the attack and tell him what to do, and later, Piccolo acted as his shield for the billionth time. It's only when the Namekians' fusion was completed that Piccolo started relying more on Gohan's power. It would've been nice if they kept the theme of Gohan now looking after Piccolo, but in 119 he nearly fell out of the ring and Piccolo saved him again. It's just the impression people were left with.

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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:31 am

BWri wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:02 am
Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:52 am
I'm a bit mixed on SSJB Evolution/Advanced.

Aesthetically speaking, the form is horrendous. But I like the concept behind it. It's Vegeta doing what he does best: brute forcing his way to a higher echelon of power in a moment of desperation. And this time it more based on a selfless desire, which I dug a lot. The form was a physical manifestation of Vegeta's intense desire to not only win the Super Dragon Balls, but to also aid those who meant something to him beyond his inner circle of allies and family.

It was in Episode 126 where Toei went full fan-wank for Vegeta and I deeply resented the form after that.
I'm not necessarily opposed to these things, so I suppose it's mainly the presentation is what did it for me. This stuff just fell flat for me. Maybe if Cabba and Vegeta spent more time together to develop a teacher/student bond, instead of it seeming more like an edgy guy showing off his cool tricks to his young fan boy. Maybe if Vegeta cared about the Saiyan race in his own universe, I could buy that he'd have this intense desire to save the Saiyans in universe 6. Maybe if they previously showed us, IDK, Vegeta telling Trunks some Saiyan legends as bedtime stories, I could buy this sudden outburst of selflessness for other universe Saiyans, but man, Super hardly sells me on anything and does the bare minimum to setup big emotional moments.
I certainly think there should have been more build up to it. I think #16 dying speech being the catalyst for Gohan becoming a SSJ2 was a bad narrative choice because #16 was such an under-developed character and had no relation to Gohan whatsoever But even in that instance, Gohan's personal journey felt like it was leading to that moment, so I somewhat give that being the spark that ignites the SSJ2 fuel a pass.

I think if Toei provided more build-up to that moment, it would have been more palpable. But in the end, all we got was that throwaway line in #122, and then in the next episode...BAM... Vegeta's got a sparkly new form. I mean, in a vacuum, it's cool moment, but it was story and character beat the certainly could have had a better foundation.

But I think Vegeta teaching Cabba about SSJ, saving Cabba from being eliminated just so that he can prove himself in battle and declaring he would visit Planat Sadala so that he could see their king -- who Cabba stated reminded him a lot of Vegeta -- were good enough moments to serve a segue to SSJB Evolution.

Also, considering all though in Vegeta's inner circle of family or allies consist of the remaining Saiyan's in his universe, and it's made demonstrably clear on several occasions he gives a shit about them, I think it's safe to say that he does care about the Saiyans (who are left) in the his universe.

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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by BWri » Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:10 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:31 am
Also, considering all though in Vegeta's inner circle of family or allies consist of the remaining Saiyan's in his universe, and it's made demonstrably clear on several occasions he gives a shit about them, I think it's safe to say that he does care about the Saiyans (who are left) in the his universe.
Except Broly. Paragus either for that matter. He responded to them with a collective "meh". His interest in Broly was just as another strong guy. To me that exemplifies Vegeta's attitude to universe 7 Saiyans in general aside from his family and Goku's family by extension. For a ruler who has all this pride in his people, he oddly has no desire to preserve or restore them, but he does have this interest for universe 6. IDK, it just doesn't fit for me.
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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:07 pm

BWri wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:10 pm
Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:31 am
Also, considering all though in Vegeta's inner circle of family or allies consist of the remaining Saiyan's in his universe, and it's made demonstrably clear on several occasions he gives a shit about them, I think it's safe to say that he does care about the Saiyans (who are left) in the his universe.
Except Broly. Paragus either for that matter. He responded to them with a collective "meh". His interest in Broly was just as another strong guy. To me that exemplifies Vegeta's attitude to universe 7 Saiyans in general aside from his family and Goku's family by extension. For a ruler who has all this pride in his people, he oddly has no desire to preserve or restore them, but he does have this interest for universe 6. IDK, it just doesn't fit for me.
Paragus made it quite clear he held an antagonistic attitude towards Vegeta, so why should Vegeta give a shit about him? I mean, Paragus made Broly into fighting machine for the purpose of killing Vegeta over a grudge that based on what Vegeta's dad did, and not Vegeta himself. So I think Vegeta has every right to be unsympathetic towards Paragus

The jury is still out on Broly as he lived by the end of his Super movie. So he could become a close ally of the main cast like Beerus and Whis did over the years. So Vegeta's general ambivalence towards Broly at this current stage is justifiable.

I mean, Vegeta does have two half breed children, and in one case, he killed himself just to protect Trunks and Bulma, and in another, nearly killed himself to greatly aid in saving his universe and have the hope for saving another race. Vegeta's willingness to put his life on line for any Saiyan he's acquainted with ultimately stems from how much of an personal interest he develops for them.

In the Majin Boo arc, he lays his life on the line because of paternal instinct and empathy towards others (he knocks out both Goten and Trunks before blowing himself up so they don't get caught in the crossfire). Fast forward to Super, and his empathy towards others has evolved to the point where just the intrigue of discovering new Saiyans beyond his universe is a concept that has too much personal value to let it die so needlessly and is willing to go the extra mile to protect it.

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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by Extreme_kai » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:11 pm

My picks are Tien and Hit. Both were characters I was expected to bring some interesting and innovative new techniques to the tournament, but both failed miserably. I guess at least Hit was eliminated by a strong opponent, Tien got knocked off by some Jobber. What an utter waste, at least he gets his shine in DBFZ, I suppose. :thumbdown:

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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by ruler9871 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:42 pm

BWri wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:33 am
snip
1. People can change their values and resolve overtime, which is exactly what Vegeta did since the Buu saga. So to claim its "out of character" for Vegeta to be motivated by these things is pure bullshit and disregards character development.

The series since the Buu saga has made it clear that Vegeta puts a much higher value for his family than Goku, enough to make it a resolve for him (along with his Pride). And "rage boost" aren't honestly any different from "nakama power", since they're both resolve/emotion based power ups. So Dragonball from day one isn't really any thematically different from most other Shonen, many fans are just in denial.

2. The "Vegeta doesn't care about the U7 Saiyans" nonsense has been debunked several times. If its true then how the hell do you explain this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfu1o61p1mQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aovcg4CgaBI

3. Vegeta gaining a power-up over family/friends isn't even new to the ToP. He did the same thing in Battle of Gods remember ("That's my Bulma!").
Last edited by ruler9871 on Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by ruler9871 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:45 pm

BWri wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:10 pm
Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:31 am
Also, considering all though in Vegeta's inner circle of family or allies consist of the remaining Saiyan's in his universe, and it's made demonstrably clear on several occasions he gives a shit about them, I think it's safe to say that he does care about the Saiyans (who are left) in the his universe.
Except Broly. Paragus either for that matter. He responded to them with a collective "meh". His interest in Broly was just as another strong guy. To me that exemplifies Vegeta's attitude to universe 7 Saiyans in general aside from his family and Goku's family by extension. For a ruler who has all this pride in his people, he oddly has no desire to preserve or restore them, but he does have this interest for universe 6. IDK, it just doesn't fit for me.
Vegeta attitude towards the U6 Saiyans is the result of his character development after the Cell Games. There's nothing contradictory about it. We can also see it in how differently he treats Future Trunks in Super compare to Z.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Characters who were wasted in the TOP (potential wise)

Post by funrush » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:08 pm

Gohan and Hit could've had a bit more to do.

I think they missed an opportunity by not reviving Dabura. He'd have been a lot more interesting & believable than Roshi.

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